Imagine if Licks was a single album then. I could see some of the warhorses on it - I think Brown Sugar is outstanding, actually. But take off Everybody Needs Somebody To Love and That's How Strong My Love Is and Rock Me Baby and leave the warhorses off to keep it more in line with how No Security was and it's quite an interesting live album then.

Of course, 5 of the 11 tracks on disc one are on Flashpoint.

Well, the version of the Stones in 1969 blows away the previous version that is on got LIVE if you want it. It still doesn't make sense to me why they left Satisfaction off considering how different (and vastly superiour) it is to that earlier live album version.

In '69 they were so consistently brilliant that they could afford to leave killer songs off what was still the best live album ever made.

Yeah. But even still - that version of Satisfaction was the best - and they left it off!

I think it was a good decision to leave out Satisfaction back then, if I heard this version in '69 I would probaly have said man!!! this one doesn't sound like it use to be (I just try to imagine what my thoughts was back then).

And what song should they remove from GYYYO?

__________________________

I think the point of leaving "Satisfaction" - as "I'm Free" and "Under My Thumb" - out was to be 'current'. That was the decision that pointed out the 'new-born' Stones, that is, post-"Jumpin' Jack Flash"-Stones. By leaving the obvious "Satisfaction" out, emphasized that the band had a new, independent life from its past. It was the band of "Jumping Jack Flash" and "Honky Tok Women" now, like old 'pop' hit "Satisfaction" never existed. The truth is that if "Satisfaction" would have been included ALL the others would have been still shadowed by it. (Plus, we could say, the place of "Satisfaction", as "Under My Thumb" as well, was naturally in GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT! when it was still 'current')

In a long run, I think they made a great decision - GET YER YA-YA'S OUT! was a living testimony of the absolute greatness of BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED material - and it laid the foundation for the 70's live material of the band. They could even live the 70's almost WITHOUT playing "Satisfaction"!

One more point that I think it is important. At that time they thought their creative career - and how to build that - was more important than quick profits. By leaving "Satisfaction" and some other Jagger-Richard tunes out, but instead including TWO (!) Chuck Berry numbers was a brave move. THey might lost some dollars with that but with that they 'bought' respect for their brand-new hot material (and also paying homage into their 'pre-history'). Once again - in long run: that was a great move!

That was a long before Cohl days...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-06 23:13 by Doxa.

Thanks Doxa, that's what I want to say but it will take me a hour to write it down.

__________________________




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-07 00:02 by NICOS.

we need to sum all the various mixes ,,of msg 69,,,stereo /mono,, etc...

Jumping Jack Flash - 28.11.69, 1st show: on gimme shelter stereo
Jumping Jack Flash -,27.11.69 on ya ya & alt ya ya stereo

Carol raw mono mix.- 28.11.69 1st show on dvd gimme shelter bonus
Carol stereo mix without overdubbs ?.& incl dialouge before.on time trip 4
Carol stereo mix with overdubbs on ya ya & alt ya ya..

yeah well this abko release along with the gimme shelter dvd coming this month is a good start IMO

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vancouver
Carol raw mono mix.- 28.11.69 1st show on dvd gimme shelter bonus

This is actually from the November 28, 2nd show.

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vancouver
Carol stereo mix without overdubbs ?.& incl dialouge before.on time trip 4

I love the mix on this version and I hope the new remaster will sound like this. The Time Trip 4 version has the exact same vocal overdubs as the Ya-Ya´s album version. If you listen closely, you can hear Mick´s original vocal bleed through.

Speaking of alt. mixes, there is also a non-overdub version of Street Fighting Man (November 28, 1st show) on the A Shot Of Salvation bootleg.

Nice, but why only the extra songs on dvd? Was the whole show not filmed? It is dissapointing.

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NICOS
I think it was a good decision to leave out Satisfaction back then, if I heard this version in '69 I would probaly have said man!!! this one doesn't sound like it use to be (I just try to imagine what my thoughts was back then).

And what song should they remove from GYYYO?

Little Queenie or Carol. Sorry, but Ya-Ya's would have been an even better album if Satisfaction had replaced one of the two Chuck Berry songs. Ya-Ya's was so much better than Got Live If You Want It, that it rendered the earlier live album all but unlistenable by comparison. For all practical purposes, no listenable live version of Satisfaction yet existed when Ya-Ya's was recorded, and no listenable live version did exist until 1982. The version on Still Life is good, but it's a million miles short of the version that was left off Ya-Ya's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-07 02:28 by tatters.

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Bitch2
Nice, but why only the extra songs on dvd? Was the whole show not filmed?

Probably not

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Doxa
I think the point of leaving "Satisfaction" - as "I'm Free" and "Under My Thumb" - out was to be 'current'. That was the decision that pointed out the 'new-born' Stones, that is, post-"Jumpin' Jack Flash"-Stones. By leaving the obvious "Satisfaction" out, emphasized that the band had a new, independent life from its past. It was the band of "Jumping Jack Flash" and "Honky Tok Women" now, like old 'pop' hit "Satisfaction" never existed. The truth is that if "Satisfaction" would have been included ALL the others would have been still shadowed by it.
- Doxa

I don't think so. I think it would have placed the Stones in their proper historical context, as a band with a legendary past, AND a brilliant present. I understand that they wanted to focus on the newer material, as they should have done, because the new material was THAT good, but clearly, they also wanted to evoke the pre-68 era because they played the one song that does that better than any other song. If they REALLY wanted to be entirely current in '69, why did they play Satisfaction at all?

Then again, it WAS a pretty cool move to have the "Paint It Black You Devil" girl do the job of evoking the entire pre-68 era FOR THEM, simply by REQUESTING one of their old songs!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-07 02:54 by tatters.

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tatters

Quote
NICOS
I think it was a good decision to leave out Satisfaction back then, if I heard this version in '69 I would probaly have said man!!! this one doesn't sound like it use to be (I just try to imagine what my thoughts was back then).

And what song should they remove from GYYYO?

Little Queenie or Carol. Sorry, but Ya-Ya's would have been an even better album if Satisfaction had replaced one of the two Chuck songs. Ya-Ya's was so much better than Got Live, that it rendered the earlier live album all but unlistenable by comparison. Satisfaction should have been included on Ya-Ya's because, for all practical purposes, no listenable live version yet existed. We didn't get a listenable live Satisfacton until Still Life. It's good, but not as good as the version that was left off Ya-Ya's.

I think you are right that the album would have been stronger if "Satisfaction" had been included instead, say, another of Berry songs. But I think - like I tried describe above - "Satisfaction" was not a 'suitable' song in that context. The band was pushing HARD forward and YA-YA'S was a statement of that. Remember that at the time ALL teh Jagger-Richard originals presented in album was NEVER played before in their tours - they weren't even created at the time the band was last time in road. And none of those songs were any kind of 'war horses' yet they'd be some day. And, in fact THIS very album is a very cause for many of those songs to be considered as ones (especially, "Midnight Rambler" and "Street Fighting Man" had a new life, and, in fact, an essence they've been known ever since). I think the decision of leaving the absolutely awesome version of "Satisfaction" out was a conscious effort to kill the connection between the 'old era' of them trying to compete with the Beatles of teenager hearts. They sacrifice "Satisfaction" for artistic reasons.

Like Gazza said in one post above their material was so hot during the time that they have afford to leave gems out. Even more, I think it difficult nowadays to really understand the uniqueness of YAYA'S because there are so many live albums ever since, and we are so used to having certain essential songs on them (and constituting their live sets ever since.) But shit, on YA-YA'S all of them are no less than two years old, and very first time presented live. As creative live artists, THIS album is their absolute peak. They would NEVER lean on a new material as much as they do here - and the song list is (in today's criteria) we can see is nothing but very best of The Rolling Stones: "Jumpin' Jack Flash", "Midnight Rambler", "Honky Tonk Women", "Street Fighting Man", "Sympathy For The Devil"... They would be never again in a position to tour behind material of THAT quality....

- Doxa

tatters, we seem to comment each other at the same time...

My point simply is to make reasonable why did they left the song out as they actually did. I intepret that as a sign of taht they wanted to reach out from their prior JJF days. I might be wrong, but there NEEDS to be a reason why there was no prior-JJF Jagger material - and that's my best quess (Gazza's good also - live version of "Satisfaction" was already relaesed a couple years ago).

Over-all, they played only three pre-JFF Jagger-Richard originals regularly on their gigs. That's not much - I think they didn't feel related to that material any longer (I think choosing the odd and low-profile "I'm Free" as one is a kind of indication of that) - even though there were lots of number ones and radio hits. With YA-YA's they really pushed the point clear. And like you noticed teh "Paint It Black" reference is stressing the same thing also!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-07 03:20 by Doxa.

it all doesn't make sense to me that their most popular song EVER, played brilliantly was left off the album...

Each to their own. Personally, I reckon that whats on track 5 of this album is matched only by the studio version of Gimme Shelter as the greatest single recording theyve ever released.

Like I said earlier, Im pretty sure that Satisfaction (like Under My thumb) was left off because they'd already released a live version a few years earlier. Might seem trivial from the perspective of four decades later, but in an era when live albums were still something of a novelty, to put the same tracks on two of them just 3-4 years apart would probably have been seen in a negative light.

Even in 1998 when they brought out 'No Security' to the inevitable groans of 'not another meaningless live album', they were at pains to point out in the press releases that the songs were selected specifically to exclude anything that had been released on any of the live albums released during the last couple of decades.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-07 04:37 by Gazza.

fair enough...

Here's the setlist:

1. JJF : had to on album
2. Carol : could be taken off..but for balance was included.
3. Stray Cat : beggars banquent album, a must
4. Love In Vain : Let It Bleed Album...Taylor's solo kept this one on the album
5. MR : a must - highlight of Tour
6. Sympathy : a must, another highlight
7. Live With Me : Let It Bleed album...i guess they had to throw this on...but certainly a song Satisfaction could have replaced
8. Little Q : as also a highlight on the 69 Tour..so that had to be included.
9. HTW : a must
10. SFM : the closer..a must

so there's 2 songs Satisfaction could have replaced : Carol & LWM...in my opinion.

still think the limit on time on the album bumped off Satisfaction....

my preference:

1. JJF
2. Carol
3. Sympathy
4. Stray Cat
5. Love In Vain
6. MR
7. Little Q
8. Satisfaction
9. HTW
10. SFM

thanks torn


Speaking of alt. mixes, there is also a non-overdub version of Street Fighting Man (November 28, 1st show) on the A Shot Of Salvation bootleg.

in the movie "gimme shelter" at the end of street fighting man mick is singing
"we got to go we got to go" this is not included on the " a shot of salivation mix" another date ?


love in vain "a shot of salivation mix is longer than "gimme shelter"&
ya ya mix

midnight rambler 45 sec longer on "alt ya ya "first four verses edited out

on "ya ya"

I think "Satisfaction" and "Under My Thumb" were left off of Ya Ya's because they appeared on Got Live If You Want It.

If you think about the supposed tracklist from the unreleased '72 live album, none of the songs that appeared on Ya Ya's were supposed to be on the '72 live album.

Keep Your Motor Running, generally regarded as the closest thing we have to the unreleased '72 live album contains "Brown Sugar", "Bitch", "Gimme Shelter", "Happy", "Tumbling Dice", "Sweet Virginia", "You Can't Always Get...", "All Down The Line", "Rip This Joint", and "Uptight/Satisfaction". This left out all the same songs that they played on the '72 tour that appeared on Ya Ya's, which makes sense considering they had released live versions of those songs two years earlier.

While the '69 live show might have included a few songs from the band's pre-'68 material, there's only so many songs that can be crammed onto a single disc record and since they had to leave out a handful of songs, and since two of the songs had already been released on Got Live, those two were two obvious songs to leave out.

Also, if you think about Love You Live in 1977 and Still Life in '82, do they have any of the same songs on them? I can't recall right off the top of my head, but I'm thinking they don't.

I think in the late '60's/early 70's, live albums weren't the "greatest hits live!" packages that they have become today....

$60 for five extra songs (on CD and DVD). Shameless, really.

IMO, Live With Me is one of the best songs on Ya-Ya's.

I understand the idea of presenting new songs on the live albums, rather than the old standards, but why then did they leave off She's So Cold from Still Life? It Beggars Belief.

Because they always played it (SSC) Too fast

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drbryant
$60 for five extra songs (on CD and DVD). Shameless, really.

true, but i have paid that much for boots before, sad but true, cant do that anymore since things like rent and food are a bit more important

"Ya Ya's" is all about the new Stones. A complete rebirth. In sound, with Taylor now; the PAs are revolutionized which changed live gigs fundamentally. It was not only a new Stones sound, but new live sound everywhere. In this sense Yayas is even more important. This is why the overdubs have never bothered me. It is a statement that THIS is how it is to be; this is how the songs are intended.
I have said this before but again - what I think is one of the strongest traits of the Stones is how they re-invented their songs for the live stage. That is often how warhorse came to be. I mean, just the fact that they edited the stage banter, and moved Jagger's quotes around; that they did the Sam Cutler collage shows that it is all a total package: the new live sound. So in that sense leaving "Satisfaction" off is understandable to me.

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, Live With Me is one of the best songs on Ya-Ya's.

to this day, whenever I purchase new stereo equipment, I use this song to test the bass quality...Wyman kicks Ass on this song

I think they really wanted to be "current" with Ya-Ya´s, and that´s the main reason for leaving Satisfaction out... (great it is, though!)

Keith (summer 1968):
"We want to do some appearances, but i don´t think the fans want to see us do the old thing - a tour, with us on stage for 20 minutes or half an hour, kicking of with Satisfaction. That´s all finished."

I note that Amazon is now listing the deluxe Ya-Ya's set for $48. 5 extra tracks was never worth US$60.

Does anyone know of a chart which lists which tracks from which dates at MSG are featured on what formats (CD's, GIMME SHELTER, this new incarnation, etc)?