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Addicted
You're damned right about Dylan's will to "interpret" his old songs in a new way. To the unrecogniseable, sometimes. Once, when he played Langesund, Norway. I drove down with some friends. Walking towards the small football ground where the show was to take place, we heard what we thought was the sound check. It was like a tuning session. It turned out His Bobness had started the show early! And that what we heard was, if I remember correctly, "All Along the Watchtower". Totally impossible to recognise.

Funny choice, but thats one Dylan song where the arrangement down the years has been pretty recognisable.

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Addicted
If the Stones had done the same thing, they'd have been slagged by their own fans, "They don't even remember how to play their own songs anymore" (we've read exactly that here on the board).

Bullshit. When they get THAT criticism, its when they perform them poorly. Any artist deserves flak for that if they do that, especially if they're charging a lot of money for the privilege of watching it. The Stones simply don't choose to tamper with old arrangements, so that renders your argument obsolete for the most part. If they did, the idea that the reaction would be in the way you've claimed is nonsensical. (Are you suggesting that the reason Dylan changes his arrangements is because he cant play the songs the way they're 'supposed' to sound anymore? Ludicrous). If the Stones attempted something similar, they'd more likely get credit for trying something fresh, regardless of whether it worked or not. Its called being a performing artist.

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Addicted
When His Bobness does it, its' like a "mark of genious and an art in itself".

Nope. sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't - but at least it keeps things fresh and shows that he's not resting on laurels.

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Addicted
So, yes, there's a huge difference between the fan bases of Dylan and the Stones.

Yep. Unfortunately the Stones' one (or rather the one you're more familiar with) refuses to let the band grow and develop and wants to hear the same selection of hits performed the exact way for decades on end. I have to say that the sort of Stones fan I'm more familiar with has loftier expectations which are geared more towards artistic merit. Probably based on watching other artists do something similar.

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Addicted
And in my opinion, the Stones have a lot more respect for their fans than Dylan does. For years he hardly looked at his audience. He turned his back on them. He was totally not interrested in "the idiots" who kept him alive financially.

yep, there's nothing that screams 'respect' as much as $100 a year fan club membership scams, $450 for nosebleeds and those $700 'hotseat' deals. But at least you get a few peanuts and a nice laminate (did they ever arrive?)

PS - thanks for the review, though. Glad you enjoyed the show.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-26 15:20 by Gazza.

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Addicted
Once, when he played Langesund, Norway. I drove down with some friends. Walking towards the small football ground where the show was to take place, we heard what we thought was the sound check. It was like a tuning session. It turned out His Bobness had started the show early! And that what we heard was, if I remember correctly, "All Along the Watchtower". Totally impossible to recognise. If the Stones had done the same thing, they'd have been slagged by their own fans, "They don't even remember how to play their own songs anymore" (we've read exactly that here on the board).

Strange opinion..!
I saw Bob's 2 other norwegian shows that summer; in Bergen and Trondheim - and they were both great....Bergen especially. Allthough his 2002 scandinavian shows were even better.
If Rolling Stones had done anything near what Bob does, when it comes to performing, rearranging, taking chances....I'd be thrilled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-26 14:32 by Erik_Snow.

OT but who has bought/heard "Tell Tale Signs"? I just got it on the strenght of rave reviews in MOJO & Uncut and frankly I'm disappointed. A few gems (mainly from TOOM) but lots of alt. versions of Oh Mercy songs that should have stayed in the vaults.
Opinion, anyone?

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dcba
OT but who has bought/heard "Tell Tale Signs"? I just got it on the strenght of rave reviews in MOJO & Uncut and frankly I'm disappointed. A few gems (mainly from TOOM) but lots of alt. versions of Oh Mercy songs that should have stayed in the vaults.
Opinion, anyone?

aside from the unnecessary occasional live track - available thru boot channels, anyway, and they generally interrupt the flow of the studio material - i give the three discs an A+ - this is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear. One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three Mississippi....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-26 17:12 by StonesTod.

I put this link on another thread (Phil Lesh) but since this is Dylan thread, I might as well put this here for the Dylan fans.

It's the complete rehearsals from Dead/Dylan tour of 87. You can listen on your computer.

[www.archive.org]

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StonesTod

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dcba
OT but who has bought/heard "Tell Tale Signs"? I just got it on the strenght of rave reviews in MOJO & Uncut and frankly I'm disappointed. A few gems (mainly from TOOM) but lots of alt. versions of Oh Mercy songs that should have stayed in the vaults.
Opinion, anyone?

aside from the unnecessary occasional live track - available thru boot channels, anyway, and they generally interrupt the flow of the studio material - i give the three discs an A+ - this is exactly the kind of thing I want to hear. One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, Three Mississippi....

Agree completely - also about the live tracks interrupting
Think the live tracks should be on the so-called bonus disc - by themselves. That being said....those are great performances; and fine choices of live material

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Bingo
I put this link on another thread (Phil Lesh) but since this is Dylan thread, I might as well put this here for the Dylan fans.

It's the complete rehearsals from Dead/Dylan tour of 87. You can listen on your computer.

[www.archive.org]

This one is pretty cool too. Lots of nice soundboard recordings !
[croz.fm]

---

Sorry for my english ; I'm a french little boy (but I like it)

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Erik_Snow

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Addicted
Once, when he played Langesund, Norway. I drove down with some friends. Walking towards the small football ground where the show was to take place, we heard what we thought was the sound check. It was like a tuning session. It turned out His Bobness had started the show early! And that what we heard was, if I remember correctly, "All Along the Watchtower". Totally impossible to recognise. If the Stones had done the same thing, they'd have been slagged by their own fans, "They don't even remember how to play their own songs anymore" (we've read exactly that here on the board).

Strange opinion..!
I saw Bob's 2 other norwegian shows that summer; in Bergen and Trondheim - and they were both great....Bergen especially. Allthough his 2002 scandinavian shows were even better.
If Rolling Stones had done anything near what Bob does, when it comes to performing, rearranging, taking chances....I'd be thrilled.

Incredibly strange behaviour... Am I tired of people who have strong opinions about gigs/shows they didn't go to?
Snow - if you were not in Langesund - how the heck can you say anything about the show. I didn't go to the shows in Bergen or Trondheim, and therefore I have no opinion about them. But I know that an artist or a band can deliver entirely different shows, be in good shape or bad shape, be inspired or uninspired even it's during the same week. My mistake: I thought you'd been to enough concerts to have noticed this, too. I guess I was wrong.

can't comment on some event we weren't physically present for? rats. i really liked the brussels '73 show, but i can't say that anymore. sucks.

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Addicted
Incredibly strange behaviour... Am I tired of people who have strong opinions about gigs/shows they didn't go to?
Snow - if you were not in Langesund - how the heck can you say anything about the show. I didn't go to the shows in Bergen or Trondheim, and therefore I have no opinion about them. But I know that an artist or a band can deliver entirely different shows, be in good shape or bad shape, be inspired or uninspired even it's during the same week. My mistake: I thought you'd been to enough concerts to have noticed this, too. I guess I was wrong.

...pardon my incredible strange behaviour...I have the Langesund show as recording...audio....CD-R if you'd like
None of us were present during Rolling Stones studio sessions either...a record is still something one has an opinion on.
Also been reading reviews from people who attended all 3 shows that summer...not that it's needed when having the audio. Anyway of course you're allowed to dislike the Langesund show... - I'm just saying that most people there...who went to see & hear Dylan - and not just hang out with friends or were there to be seen themselves....or eat hot dogs; enjoyed the show.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-26 23:52 by Erik_Snow.

Two 1963 pro SB concerts so good they deserve a full official release...

[www.hungercity.org]
[www.hungercity.org]

Absolute must-have's imho

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dcba
OT but who has bought/heard "Tell Tale Signs"? I just got it on the strenght of rave reviews in MOJO & Uncut and frankly I'm disappointed. A few gems (mainly from TOOM) but lots of alt. versions of Oh Mercy songs that should have stayed in the vaults.
Opinion, anyone?

The alternate "Can't Wait" is absolutely mindblowing. But I was a little disappointed with the live version of LDB. Sounds like an audience recording.

to be fair when the stones attempt something different either a rearrangement (19thN or a somewhat different cover (get up stand up) or digging into the back catalog (sway) most of the audience switches off.

OLDKR

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oldkr
to be fair when the stones attempt something different either a rearrangement (19thN or a somewhat different cover (get up stand up) or digging into the back catalog (sway) most of the audience switches off.

your polling techinique, please?

Chuck said when they played sway 200 people went crazy the rest looked like deer in the headlights - they played 19thNB what, twice? because of lacklustre crowd response, same with GUSU- did u even see shows they played those tunes at?

OLDKR

Tell Tale Signs is an amazing record, but it takes a looong time to digest. Most of the alternate versions are eye-opening. You can hear how songs evolved from other songs. Snippets of lyrics from one song form the basis of another in the released canon.

As for three versions of Mississippi, you have to absorb each one over time. At first, I thought, "Ugh, these can't hold a candle to the one on 'Love and Theft,'" but each one has its own character and is as stunning as the last one.

The guy has mined a vein of American music over the last decade and a half that is simply astounding. An absolute rebirth as an artist.

And I love the reinventions of his songs. He compels you to come at them from totally different angles. Some people don't dig it at all, and that's cool too.

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dcba
OT but who has bought/heard "Tell Tale Signs"? I just got it on the strenght of rave reviews in MOJO & Uncut and frankly I'm disappointed. A few gems (mainly from TOOM) but lots of alt. versions of Oh Mercy songs that should have stayed in the vaults.
Opinion, anyone?

no complaints, with the quality of the music, in the 3 disc package - it's fantastic.
Unfortunately, the accompanying book, is poorly bound, and won't endure much wear and tear.
A great shame and disappointment, considering the cost.

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Erik_Snow

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Addicted
Incredibly strange behaviour... Am I tired of people who have strong opinions about gigs/shows they didn't go to?
Snow - if you were not in Langesund - how the heck can you say anything about the show. I didn't go to the shows in Bergen or Trondheim, and therefore I have no opinion about them. But I know that an artist or a band can deliver entirely different shows, be in good shape or bad shape, be inspired or uninspired even it's during the same week. My mistake: I thought you'd been to enough concerts to have noticed this, too. I guess I was wrong.

...pardon my incredible strange behaviour...I have the Langesund show as recording...audio....CD-R if you'd like
None of us were present during Rolling Stones studio sessions either...a record is still something one has an opinion on.
Also been reading reviews from people who attended all 3 shows that summer...not that it's needed when having the audio. Anyway of course you're allowed to dislike the Langesund show... - I'm just saying that most people there...who went to see & hear Dylan - and not just hang out with friends or were there to be seen themselves....or eat hot dogs; enjoyed the show.

I'm a Dylan fan, just like the three other people I went there with. We were very disappointed with that show. And we've seen him a few times... I see you're trying to create an impression of us going to the concert for the wrong reasons. Like hanging out with friends... I don't mind hanging out with friends at concerts, as long as they share my passion for the music. Or eat hot dogs. I refuse to eat hot dogs. Even when a hot dog manufacturer is sponsoring local Stones shows. I declined an invitation. (BV knows all about this. I've taken a stand for animal welfare and the environment. Hot dogs - no way!) "or to be seen themselves". Are you just trying to be evil or do you have an agenda here? When I go to concerts, and yes, that happens up to several times a week, I definitely go to see and hear the artists. And I promise you we'd never have driven for 8 hours to and from Langesund if it wasn't because we love Dylan, and were looking forward to a great concert experience. We didn't get that experience, not in Langesund, but on former and later Dylan concerts.
I'm starting to think there's something else behind your hateful posts. They're certainly not of the sympathetic kind.

Addicted, you misinterpret my post, I'm not hateful at all - I was thinking about the somewhat common view that Bob Dylan live in concert is a dreadful experience - which is what people who don't have a relation to his music - but attended a show; will claim. Probably because it's not the typical "show" with fireworks, safe reneditions of songs and singalongs. It's not directed at you at all - I did say "most people who attended that show"...not "all". Langesund got positive reports at the time - fact. Doesn't mean that you are "wrong". Concerning the hotdogs...I had the Trondheim 2001 show in mind; in which I was surrounded by hot-dog-eating and loud-talking people....at the "Torg". Now how could it be directed at you? I don't know who's behind the Addicted name
Hope you won't find something hateful in this post as well....it's not my intention....you shouldn't read things in the worst possible way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-27 13:32 by Erik_Snow.

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oldkr
Chuck said when they played sway 200 people went crazy the rest looked like deer in the headlights - they played 19thNB what, twice? because of lacklustre crowd response, same with GUSU- did u even see shows they played those tunes at?

OLDKR

that's what he said alright - extant audio documentary doesn't bear this out, however....

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oldkr
to be fair when the stones attempt something different either a rearrangement (19thN or a somewhat different cover (get up stand up) or digging into the back catalog (sway) most of the audience switches off.

OLDKR

thats because 'most of the audience' are tourists who are there to tick off another 'legend' on their list of acts that they've seen.

Unfortunately, the Stones have acquired the audience they deserve.Which is why they don't bother to challenge themselves more often.

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Gazza
Unfortunately, the Stones have acquired the audience they deserve.Which is why they don't bother to challenge themselves more often.

it's kind of a circular, chicken-egg deal now? Hard to tell who to blame? It's like Washington politics are something....very confusing. Can't we just blame Andrew and keep it simple?

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Addicted
Once, when he played Langesund, Norway. I drove down with some friends. Walking towards the small football ground where the show was to take place, we heard what we thought was the sound check. It was like a tuning session. It turned out His Bobness had started the show early! And that what we heard was, if I remember correctly, "All Along the Watchtower". Totally impossible to recognise.

Well dear Shidoobee/gstone/angel with../Addicted etc: i´m not a fan at all of his Bobness, but i remember reading that Bob once said that Hendrix did the best version of All Along the Watchtower, and that he, Bob, did´nt want to stray too far from that arrangement.
All Along The watchtower was song number 16 at the Langesund concert, so i feel sorry for you, since he only played 4 more songs after that,...
No wonder you felt disappointed...


Humming Bird (acoustic) (Larry on electric guitar)
(song by Johnnie Wright, Jim Anglin and Jack Anglin)
Mr. Tambourine Man (acoustic)
Tangled Up In Blue (acoustic) (Bob on harp)
Watching The River Flow
Positively 4th Street
Maggie's Farm
A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (acoustic)
It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding) (acoustic)
It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (acoustic) (Larry on pedal steel)
Things Have Changed
Cold Irons Bound
Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat
(1st encore)

Country Pie
Like A Rolling Stone
If Dogs Run Free (acoustic) (Larry and Charlie on electric guitars)
All Along The Watchtower (Larry on lap steel guitar)
Knockin' On Heaven's Door (acoustic) (Charlie on electric guitar)
Highway 61 Revisited
Blowin' In The Wind (acoustic)
(2nd encore)
Rainy Day Women #12 & 35

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-03-27 23:30 by mickijaggeroo.

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Gazza

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oldkr
to be fair when the stones attempt something different either a rearrangement (19thN or a somewhat different cover (get up stand up) or digging into the back catalog (sway) most of the audience switches off.

OLDKR

thats because 'most of the audience' are tourists who are there to tick off another 'legend' on their list of acts that they've seen.

Unfortunately, the Stones have acquired the audience they deserve.Which is why they don't bother to challenge themselves more often.

You can't play the same song in front of a 80000 people stadium's audience and in a small club in front of 800 absolute fans. When I saw Dylan in Toulouse (France), he played in front of around 6000/8000 people, which were not fans (except the first rows) and the crowd were very disappointed. To be fair, it sounded like most people were waited to see him play like in 1964 only with his guitar and his harp. Though it was a very good gig.
I'm quite sure that if the Stones played every song rearranged in small club, their crowd would be exstatic ! But they choose to do it in front of big stadium crowds and it just doesn't sound right to them !

---

Sorry for my english ; I'm a french little boy (but I like it)

hey guys keep focused, another show tonight!

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olorin

You can't play the same song in front of a 80000 people stadium's audience and in a small club in front of 800 absolute fans.

Says who?

If you're supposed to be the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world, you should certainly be able to.

It's not like they're splitting the atom here, olorin!

Jönköping, Sweden
Kinnarps Arena
March 27, 2009

1. Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat (Bob on keyboard)
2. When I Paint My Masterpiece (Bob on harp center stage)
3. Don't Think Twice, It's All Righ (Bob on guitar)
4. The Levee's Gonna Break (Bob on keyboard)
5. Just Like A Woman (Bob on keyboard)
6. It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding) (Bob on keyboard)
7. Most Likely You Go Your Way (And I'll Go Mine) (Bob on keyboard)
8. Million Miles (Bob on keyboard)
9. Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again
(Bob on keyboard)
10. This Wheel's On Fire (Bob on harp center stage)
11. Highway 61 Revisited (Bob on keyboard)
12. Make You Feel My Love (Bob on keyboard)
13. Thunder On The Mountain (Bob on keyboard)
14. Like A Rolling Stone (Bob on keyboard)

(encore)

15. All Along The Watchtower (Bob on keyboard)
16. Spirit On The Water (Bob on keyboard)
17. Blowin' In The Wind (Bob on keyboard)

bobby! where'd billy go??

He's probably propping up the bar at the 'One Night Only' club with his good mate "Million Dollar Bash", who has been a permanent fixture there since I saw his only appearance back at Brixton in 2005.