Quote
maumau
so damn right Ian..

________________________________


I'm taking it you are referring to the amount of songs they have (and the amount of various mixes that were reported).


I figured they would have a fair amount of songs by now (as was said.. they BETTER ... has been three years and some good change ... but suspected only half of what they normally accumulated. Because this time, if one read between the lines from various interviews and reports instead of 30-50 songs ...It's just beyond 20 ...but the focus is not on amount this time but to work on the songs (stronger tracks) they chose. I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions of many songs ..


They have plenty of work .. still the focus is on 'quality' ..not quantity this time. Instead of hey we have five strong songs ...now lets write another ten to see if we can get a few more.. this time it has been lets work on the songs we have .. make them 100% .. have various mixes to choose from...then we will record again. At least that is what it sounds like.


Their standard process of write the material .. record it ... over-dub it and mix it was not the way they did this album so far (or are doing) this one in the least. In fact .. it was opposite and opposite from how they worked in the past (however it is how they made Bridges to Babylon to a minor extent). More over it is a different way of doing things entirely this time for them .. at least that's how Im taking it from the bits and pieces I gathered.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-23 18:46 by IanBillen.

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IanBillen

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maumau
so damn right Ian..

________________________________


I'm taking it you are referring to the amount of songs they have (and the amount of various mixes that were reported).


I figured they would have a fair amount of songs by now (as was said.. they BETTER ... has been three years and some good change ... but suspected only half of what they normally accumulated. Because this time, if one read between the lines from various interviews and reports instead of 30-50 songs ...it's just beyond 20 ...but the focus is not on amount this time but to work on the songs (stronger) tracks they have. I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions ..


Still .. they have plenty of work .. still the focus is on quality ..not quantity this time.
this time.

I think he was commenting on what Ian Stewart said about Mick's vocals on UNDERCOVER.

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Ianj Billen
I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions of many songs ... this time it has been lets work on the songs we have .. make them 100% .. have various mixes to choose from...

Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected), there might be a few more like that in the new batch.
And then they started digging back through the old dust bins and scraping the old barrels to find something that might be worthy.
There might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You, and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life.
Then again, there might be some old turds in there as well...the reason why they never finished them in the first place.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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GasLightStreet

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IanBillen

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maumau
so damn right Ian..

________________________________


I'm taking it you are referring to the amount of songs they have (and the amount of various mixes that were reported).


I figured they would have a fair amount of songs by now (as was said.. they BETTER ... has been three years and some good change ... but suspected only half of what they normally accumulated. Because this time, if one read between the lines from various interviews and reports instead of 30-50 songs ...it's just beyond 20 ...but the focus is not on amount this time but to work on the songs (stronger) tracks they have. I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions ..


Still .. they have plenty of work .. still the focus is on quality ..not quantity this time.
this time.

I think he was commenting on what Ian Stewart said about Mick's vocals on UNDERCOVER.

Yes I was referring to Stu saying that he used to prefer the "raw" songs. About the new album all I can say is that I hope you're right IanBillen and that all this waiting is about searching quality. If that is true, the latest bit of Mick on Instagram sure it is going be an outtake



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-23 20:29 by maumau.

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Rocky Dijon
The flames crackled as they merged with the smoke and made the old wizard's face glisten in their light. "There is an invisible wall...," he spoke. The weary travelers leaned forward to hear him better. "The wall divides the good Twin from the bad Twin. The good Twin seeks to keep the tribe pure. He craves not riches or glory. He loves only the pure. We are like him. The bad Twin seeks to enslave the tribe in his pursuit for immortality."

The youngest traveler's brows furrowed, "O wise one, doesn't the good Twin desire immortality for the tribe as much as the bad Twin? Shouldn't we follow both Twins for it has always been the Twins in harmony leading the tribe? Some say there is no wall, that it was only a symbol of the differences between them."

The old wizard shrieked and appeared to be lifted off the ground whilst his limbs shook with an uncontrollable fit.

"The wall is real. The wall is how we separate the tribe into the elite who follow the good from those we despise who refuse to condemn the bad. There is no harmony or balance. There is no peace, only discord and chaos and endless chatter."

The youngest traveler shook his head, sadly.

"This is madness. This tribe used to be a good place for many moons and many generations. Now it is a terrible web...a net that captures only bad talk and anger. I don't wish to be a part of this any more unless we can find harmony and joy like we once knew."

The old wizard's eyes became black slits glowing in the light of the fire.

"Devour him," he commanded.

The others did his bidding.

Here endeth The IORRian Chronicles.

Rocky is an absolute gem, imo. reliable presence & very kind.
maybe he's stretchin' some metaphors here in terms of cooperative
relationships ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 05:46 by hopkins.

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Hairball

Quote
Ianj Billen
I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions of many songs ... this time it has been lets work on the songs we have .. make them 100% .. have various mixes to choose from...

Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected), there might be a few more like that in the new batch.
And then they started digging back through the old dust bins and scraping the old barrels to find something that might be worthy.
There might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You, and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life.
Then again, there might be some old turds in there as well...the reason why they never finished them in the first place.

___________________________________


Holy schmokes .. talk about pessimism concerning the new record lol yikeys. Don't base things on Jaggers two solo release songs. They were not included because Keith told him they were not Stones songs and he wasn't interested in them. It's why they were not used on the record.

There was a report there were some 'GREAT' songs as well as uneven material. Let's wait and see. All twenty some are most likely not top notch premium stuff. They will knock 6-8 off that Ima sure wont make the cut.

First you were disheartened because you figured they didn't have much material.


The Rolling Stones can't win with Mr. Hairball ... i-yi-yi .. Ha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-23 22:44 by IanBillen.

I guess you missed these parts of my post Ian?

"Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds..."

Followed by:

"There might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You, and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life".

I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic.

Quote
Ian Billen
There was a report there were some 'GREAT' songs as well as uneven material. Let's wait and see. All twenty some are most likely not top notch premium stuff.

On the other hand, this line of thinking seems a bit too optimistic and unrealistic, but as you say let's wait and see. Might be a loooong wait considering the pace thus far.
Lots more work to be done after the tour's finished, but first vacation, some relaxation, and most importantly family time, etc. After all that is behind them, they will meet again for maybe 10 days at the most.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 00:10 by Hairball.

Pretty easy to be pessimistic about a new Stones album. How many years has it been since Bigger Bang?

Unless I'm getting the story wrong but I feel like this new album is progressing sort of similarly the way VOODOO LOUNGE was when it was being recorded in '93. They had written and recorded a lot of diverse material for VOODOO LOUNGE that Don Was didn't approve of. The songs that ended up being on the album were more straight up Stones by the numbers. They were also recorded during the last lot of sessions at the end of '93 because the stuff they had recorded before wasn't up to par with Was. It's also why Mick didn't like how VOODOO LOUNGE turned out. He gave up fighting for what he wanted the album to sound like.

It seems most albums after SOME GIRLS were done with some sort of issues during the recording process, or ended up not being up to Stones standards. EMOTIONAL RESCUE saw the first Glimmer Twins battle as Keith thought Mick was getting his way too much in the studio. TATTOO YOU was done because, as stated by Chris Kimsey, Mick and Keith were going through a period of not getting on. UNDERCOVER was the tug-of-war of keeping the Stones current and keeping them to their roots. DIRTY WORK was a mess because Mick only gave a crap about his own material, and Keith led most of the sessions alone, which didn't produce amazing material. STEEL WHEELS, I don't really think had a lot of direction as it was rushed recorded for release in late '89, thus why there's so little material outside what ended up on the album. I already told the VL story lol. Mick got his way on BRIDGES TO BABYLON, which was okay but a mixed bag at best. As much as Mick and Keith were really writing together for A BIGGER BANG, which produced a couple good songs, had way too much filler and none of the songs stood out more than being plain rock songs.

Now with this new album, it feels like they have a lot of that diverse material again that the record company, and especially Keith, are not approving of. So they keep going back into the studio trying to record stuff everyone can agree on. But, like georgelicks said, there are Mick mixes to a few songs and Keith mixes. It's a BRIDGES TO BABYLON type situation again about who they're bringing in to help with the material. We're definitely not going to end up with another VOODOO LOUNGE where that diverse material goes out the window, Mick won't let that happen, but what I'm feeling from all of this is another album like UNDERCOVER. The Glimmer Twins doing a tug-of-war on material and ending up with a crazy mix of songs like "Feel On Baby" and than "Too Tough" three songs after. That's what I'm afraid of.

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Hairball
I guess you missed these parts of my post Ian?

"Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds..."

Followed by:

"There might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You, and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life".

I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic.

Quote
Ian Billen
There was a report there were some 'GREAT' songs as well as uneven material. Let's wait and see. All twenty some are most likely not top notch premium stuff.

On the other hand, this line of thinking seems a bit too optimistic and unrealistic, but as you say let's wait and see. Might be a loooong wait considering the pace thus far.
Lots more work to be done after the tour's finished, but first vacation, some relaxation, and most importantly family time, etc. After all that is behind them, they will meet again for maybe 10 days at the most.

.


______________________________________




They did not release the album last year because they felt the material was not up to snuff one way or another. They have been doing this a long time .. so has their producer .. and their people. They know what they are doing far more than any of us .. so I think it's realistic in thinking that if they release it .. there is good chance it will at the very least be a <good> album. That's sort of my thought there on that.

How many 10 day cycles do they need. IMO the bulk of the material is done. Im simply guessing but they have done a lot of sessions .. lots .. Even Charlie said so. That was before the last batch of sessions.


My guess is after the tour they may do a few minor over-dubs .. possibly record one more song or two and then pick the songs for releasing. Album out middle of next fall .. watch. The bulk of the recording is finished I bet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 06:26 by IanBillen.

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Ian Billen
there is good chance it will at the very least be a <good> album

Yes Ian, that's the hope!

Again to clarify so we're on the same page here:
I'm not saying everything they have to work with are all turds (regarding brand new material),and there might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You,
and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life

And my mistake, I misread that previous line from you - I could have sworn it said:

"All twenty some are most likely top notch premium stuff"... (I overlooked the 'not' in there), so yes would I agree that all twenty some are most likely NOT top notch premium stuff.
There might be five or six that can be considered top notch premium stuff, but even that's wishful thinking based on everything they've released the last few decades.
I'll be happy with just one or two top notch premium tunes, but still acknowledge that even those probably won't be in the same league with their best stuff from the first two decades.
Still a long way to go considerng their work pattern, and with all the various mixes, etc., etc., etc. seems there still isn't any light at the end of the tunnel - the proof will be in the pudding some day.

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keefgotsoul
Pretty easy to be pessimistic about a new Stones album. How many years has it been since Bigger Bang?

14 long years and counting............................

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 06:27 by Hairball.

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Hairball
Interesting article from Vanity Fair in 2016 that covers alot of territory written by Rich Cohen who covered the Stones in the '90's, and worked with Mick on 'Vinyl'.

Inside Mick Jagger and Keith Richards’s Five-Decade Bromance

Keith and Mick

"In the end, there is sentiment, then there is business. In other words, when you see Mick and Keith onstage, leaning together like Butch and Sundance, you’re seeing actors. Many of us fell in love with the band because they were a gang. At the center of that gang were the blood brothers, Mick and Keith. Their friendship was rock ‘n’ roll. The songs being written together only amplified that point, for what is more intimate than co-writing?
But what happens when that friendship dies? What does it do to the music"?

The sooner the fans face this fact the easier it will be to accept the inevitable. When the Stones broke up in the 80s they put the road band back together in 89 to make money.
The studio band never got back together.
If you liked Bigger Bang,Voodoo lounge etc,and I know many people do, you’ll be happy with the next one.
If you’re hoping for one last great one like Tattoo or Some girls,that ain’t happening.the Stones just flat out aren’t that good anymore,live they are great-they kill it on Brown Sugar every night,but in the studio it’s over.

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Hairball

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Ian Billen
there is good chance it will at the very least be a album

Yes Ian, that's the hope!

Again to clarify so we're on the same page here:
I'm not saying everything they have to work with are all turds (regarding brand new material),and there might be some promising old nuggets to be found ala Tattoo You,
and with a bit of polishing up something fantastic might come to life

And my mistake, I misread that previous line from you - I could have sworn it said:

"All twenty some are most likely top notch premium stuff"... (I overlooked the 'not' in there), so yes would I agree that all twenty some are most likely NOT top notch premium stuff.
There might be five or six that can be considered top notch premium stuff, but even that's wishful thinking based on everything they've released the last few decades.
I'll be happy with just one or two top notch premium tunes, but still acknowledge that even those probably won't be in the same league with their best stuff from the first two decades.
Still a long way to go considerng their work pattern, and with all the various mixes, etc., etc., etc. seems there still isn't any light at the end of the tunnel - the proof will be in the pudding some day.

Quote
keefgotsoul
Pretty easy to be pessimistic about a new Stones album. How many years has it been since Bigger Bang?

14 long years and counting............................

_________________________________


I KNEW it .. (Was my bad) .. it had always meant to say 'all 20 are (or can't) not / cannot be top notch premium album material I wouldn't think'. It did say that! I knew I wasn't crazy (never intended it to say that though .. I mistyped from the start). I was working on my website .. and having a conversation about cloud linking while checking back in here. I must of edited it (because I saw the typo) .. then I came back to this message board and thought.. wait.. it says what I intended it to? .. darn?...Im getting all corn-fused here .. must have too many irons in fire tonight? I must of edited it and didn't realize the edit took in the back and forth shuffle.

Speaking of my website. Jus finished a 'looking back' review on Foo Fighters Concrete and Gold https://ianbillen.com/foo-fighters-concrete-gold/ You may wanna check it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 09:57 by IanBillen.

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IanBillen

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maumau
so damn right Ian..

________________________________


I'm taking it you are referring to the amount of songs they have (and the amount of various mixes that were reported).


I figured they would have a fair amount of songs by now (as was said.. they BETTER ... has been three years and some good change ... but suspected only half of what they normally accumulated. Because this time, if one read between the lines from various interviews and reports instead of 30-50 songs ...It's just beyond 20 ...but the focus is not on amount this time but to work on the songs (stronger tracks) they chose. I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions of many songs ..


They have plenty of work .. still the focus is on 'quality' ..not quantity this time. Instead of hey we have five strong songs ...now lets write another ten to see if we can get a few more.. this time it has been lets work on the songs we have .. make them 100% .. have various mixes to choose from...then we will record again. At least that is what it sounds like.


Their standard process of write the material .. record it ... over-dub it and mix it was not the way they did this album so far (or are doing) this one in the least. In fact .. it was opposite and opposite from how they worked in the past (however it is how they made Bridges to Babylon to a minor extent). More over it is a different way of doing things entirely this time for them .. at least that's how Im taking it from the bits and pieces I gathered.

If this is true, it’s a big plus.

JumpingKentFlash

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JumpingKentFlash

Quote
IanBillen

Quote
maumau
so damn right Ian..

________________________________


I'm taking it you are referring to the amount of songs they have (and the amount of various mixes that were reported).


I figured they would have a fair amount of songs by now (as was said.. they BETTER ... has been three years and some good change ... but suspected only half of what they normally accumulated. Because this time, if one read between the lines from various interviews and reports instead of 30-50 songs ...It's just beyond 20 ...but the focus is not on amount this time but to work on the songs (stronger tracks) they chose. I did not figure they already had mixed so many versions of many songs ..


They have plenty of work .. still the focus is on 'quality' ..not quantity this time. Instead of hey we have five strong songs ...now lets write another ten to see if we can get a few more.. this time it has been lets work on the songs we have .. make them 100% .. have various mixes to choose from...then we will record again. At least that is what it sounds like.


Their standard process of write the material .. record it ... over-dub it and mix it was not the way they did this album so far (or are doing) this one in the least. In fact .. it was opposite and opposite from how they worked in the past (however it is how they made Bridges to Babylon to a minor extent). More over it is a different way of doing things entirely this time for them .. at least that's how Im taking it from the bits and pieces I gathered.

If this is true, it’s a big plus.

______________________________________________


I agree. This album has to be a little different ..and it should of been approached differently than albums in the past .. and by the sounds of it ...certainly has.


Now... I'm not so big on how LONG and how they neglected it to a point .. but I am glad they approached this one differently in the recording, writing department. It was time to do it differently ..

Quote
Hairball
Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected).

We all ASSUME A THIS. But where was it actually said by sometime IN The Stones camp that Keith rejected this song? Not that I am saddened by the boys NOT taking this on...

Rod

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bitusa2012

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Hairball
Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected).

We all ASSUME A THIS. But where was it actually said by sometime IN The Stones camp that Keith rejected this song? Not that I am saddened by the boys NOT taking this on...

Keith has stated about the 2 songs..This is not Stones stuff . release it under your own name.That and the fact he choose not to play on the 2 songs means to me..he did not like the songs.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 13:04 by runrudolph.

Are they still in LA ?
I would have thought Mick would hang around for the Oscar's.
Surely they don't need another holiday or time with family. What will Keith do...more sunbathing in the Turks? And Charlie? Just sit in one of his cars that he doesnt drive?
They could stay and finish off the album..a couple of days (if that) for rehearsals..and then on the road. Must be more promotional benefits from album/ tour than album/Christmas.

Christmas sales will be higher. I Just wish they release some songs.
Jeroen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 13:19 by runrudolph.

Quote
runrudolph
Christmas sales will be higher. I Just wish they release some songs.
Jeroen

I feel your pain, i missing an album so bad i would welcome a solo album from any and all of them as apposed to an album that we here is going to be different.
I'm not so sure different is what i want from the Stones, i mean this is the STONES, i want a STONES album from them, Tattoo You type of thing would be nice.

Every day two new pages of nothing, is life that boring??

Quote
Strike
Every day two new pages of nothing, is life that boring??

Yeah and to think i'm on holiday this week, how sad that i feel compelled to listen and add to two pages of nothing everyday.
In all seriousness though, is there something wrong with many of us, we talk about this band in detail for years and years, it says something about life today that we need a bunch of very old men to give us an album to make us happy and to give us something to discuss. Is music today so bad that this is all we have along with The Who and Bob Dylan etc... Why are we not blown away with modern music, why is it so limited and shallow, why do i find myself listening to classical radio stations and deep relaxation music, why does 80's music that i hated at the time seem fantastic in comparison to today's soulless chart offerings, why is there no money to be earned from making great music these days.
I guess i'm just old at 53, but i don't feel old, why aren't artists delivering to our needs, wants and tastes. Now more than ever a great album from the Stones will be received very well, this is the time.

Personally, I don't care that much. If they release an album: fine with me. If they don't: it's business as usual.
Since long I have accepted the fact that they are on their way out. A thing of the past. Like the rest of us, eventually.

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Stoneage
Personally, I don't care that much. If they release an album: fine with me. If they don't: it's business as usual.
Since long I have accepted the fact that they are on their way out. A thing of the past. Like the rest of us, eventually.

When you think about it, the Stones last album was about the same time TELL ME on IORR was born online. 14 plus years without an album of originals from a band that didn't split up is a bit of a joke really.
That's like not having a follow up album from the first Rolling Stones album up until Some Girls
And i'm told time and time again on here that the suggestion of writers block is controversial.

Quote
Strike
Every day two new pages of nothing, is life that boring??

It is like social media: Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn - lots of time on nothing. Life has become "Nothing".

Funny enough, a research in Denmark has found out that the intellectual capacity among young men is decreasing. It started to decrease in 98 has slowly gone down ever since. Coinciding with the broader introduction of Internet, SMS etc.

People's brain-work has been put on standby doing nothing.

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runrudolph

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bitusa2012

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Hairball
Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected).

We all ASSUME A THIS. But where was it actually said by sometime IN The Stones camp that Keith rejected this song? Not that I am saddened by the boys NOT taking this on...

Keith has stated about the 2 songs..This is not Stones stuff . release it under your own name.That and the fact he choose not to play on the 2 songs means to me..he did not like the songs.
Jeroen

"They ain't Stones tunes, if you want to cut them, put 'em out on your own...and the bugger went and did it." - Keith


Seems Keith was being stubborn and difficult again, delaying the proceedings on the progress of the new album.
I always thought if he had contributed a bit of something here or there to these tunes (whether guitar, vocals, lyrics, or a different mix, etc), they might have evolved in a different manner and resulted in something worthy.
In other words, this turd of a tune could have possibly been polished up a bit. Not sure exactly what he didnt like about them as there's been much worse Stones material throughout the last few decades imo.
Again, he was probably just being stubborn and difficult for the sake of it. Mick has said that Keith has a habit of being that way sometimes, so hats off to Mick for sticking to his guns even though the results were poor.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
runrudolph

Quote
bitusa2012

Quote
Hairball
Reminds me of the old sayings: "You can't polish a turd".

Not saying everything they have to work with are all turds, but based on Getta Grip (which Keith rejected).

We all ASSUME A THIS. But where was it actually said by sometime IN The Stones camp that Keith rejected this song? Not that I am saddened by the boys NOT taking this on...

Keith has stated about the 2 songs..This is not Stones stuff . release it under your own name.That and the fact he choose not to play on the 2 songs means to me..he did not like the songs.
Jeroen

Am sure John Lennon positively disliked quite a few of Paul's latter Beatles offerings..especially some of the White album tracks.
But, despite his ego, he still played and contributed..which is what you do in a band.
If not...go SOLO.

Quote
jlowe
Are they still in LA ?

It seems that Ronnie arrived in London some days ago (last Friday, if I'm not wrong).

"Leonardo DiCaprio was in a ‘party mood’ before the Oscars. The ‘Titanic’ star was spotted dancing to rave music with both Mick Jagger and Al Pacino at a private mansion in Beverly Hills this weekend."

[radaronline.com]

If only jet-setting rendered in new albums they would have done a gazillion of them now...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-24 22:29 by Stoneage.