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DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
Doxa
It is a great track in a great album.
- Doxa
An understatement. Let's readjust it: "Jig-Saw Puzzle" is a wonderful track in a brilliant album.
- Doxa
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Palace Revolution 2000
Yes and no. Of course he was a pro; a road warrior, socialite, budding film star - the package. Probably had every right to be about as self confident as an person on the planet.
Still - I Know that there is a huge difference between introducing a song to the band, when it is you with one or two partners. You come as kind of a team, and you feel kind of sure about what you got, because the kinks have already been tackled.
Coming out alone, with a guitar, and saying "this is what I have", is hard always. I suspect it would have been especially hard for him to play it to Keith.
But I don't really know if this had not happened earlier. Or of these were the first songs he brought out alone.
That said I think this would be an incredible title, or headline for a book or essay on Jagger. "Paper, Puzzle, Devil & Sugar".
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HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
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LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
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Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
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GasLightStreetQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
It's indeed some HMS kind of thinking, calling Jigsaw Puzzle a "weak track" when there's not one weak track on BEGGARS.
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wanderingspirit66Quote
Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
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HairballQuote
wanderingspirit66Quote
Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
That was all enlightening wanderingspirit66, thanks, but had to fix your quote as everything above is solely from Doxa which I would never take credit for.
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Hairball
Cheers wanderingspirit66.
And from your original post:
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit.
When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
__________________________________________________
Now that we know this, it would be interesting to know exactly what Mick came up with vs. what was already there.
I'm assuming Keith had not only the music and title (?), but how much did it evolve with the help of Mick?
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DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
How much he wrote is another question..
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TheflyingDutchman
One can question Richards' long-term memory.In a recent interview he stated that Taylor did the most contributions in the studio. I always thought it was on stage.
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DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchman
One can question Richards' long-term memory.In a recent interview he stated that Taylor did the most contributions in the studio. I always thought it was on stage.
Link?
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DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
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wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
Mick has claimed to have contributed before, and it has been discussed here as well.
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stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
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LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
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DoxaQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
Yeah, and think that awful, jealous Jagger fellow who constantly lies that it was actually him writing those nice words from Keith to Riffie...
- Doxa
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wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
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35love
It was a 1,000 years and many chemicals ago.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
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hopkinsQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
Just a guess; We'll never know for sure if they even know for sure and certain at this point. Just for fun I'd venture it was Mick on the 'red coal carpet' line because Keith's writing seems to be direct first person narrative and not so much metaphor per se...whereas I think Jags, as we could see when he sort of semi-clumsily, at times, started branching out lyricall all Dylanesque or Ray Davies-esque; playing with those literary images and descriptions. Just a wild sswing at the ball tho. I wouldn't put it past either of them to surprise me with who wrote what song; or what part of whatever song,.
I think of signature songs by Keith in a range. Say "Happy" and "Before They Make Me Run," are good examples of Keith's first-person declarative approach lyrically. Not that Mick doesn't do that but Keith seems to pride himself on more 'straight-ahead' feelings and business; he comes by the poetry in Angie and others honestly, but without dressing. He's not setting the descriptive scen in Angie, or making metaphors. Also Angie, which has some stark poetic lines, go ahead laugh; i know it's hip to hate that one, but Angie the same kind of thing. His 'character' talking directly to 'angie' and it's an impossible break-up song of profound heartache. Did that Stones blues cover album have any of those excellent cats working out Angie? Beautiful lyrics and a lot of soul. If I was a DJ I'd have double-plays of Angie into New Faces just to @#$%& with people. and also to groove along w The Rolling Stones.