Tell Me :
Talk
I know what you mean, and completely agree.
In fact what I was trying to say is that Puzzle might have been the second "complete" song that Jagger brought to the band, but for sure it was not the second song he ever wrote!
Nice pages on this issue in Life. How many songs M&K penned for other artists before having the guts to present them to the band?
I am sure that the same was true also for Mick. And more so, knowing how perfectionist and proud he is. How many songs had he worked on before being able to say: "Guys, Keith, this is MY song"
I don't have a clue of how that first demo sounded like. Earliest take I've heard has the piano already going and the slide theme there.
C
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
It's indeed some HMS kind of thinking, calling Jigsaw Puzzle a "weak track" when there's not one weak track on BEGGARS.
Not to take anything away from Keith's genius in composing Gimme Shelter but Jagger did say that he wrote a lot of the words to Gimme Shelter. This interview below with Melissa Block on NPR is the only time I have heard either Jagger or Richards specifically say anything about the writing of the lyrics to Gimme Shelter.
November 16, 20124:37 PM ET
[www.npr.org]
From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Audie Cornish.
MELISSA BLOCK, HOST:
And I'm Melissa Block.
MICK JAGGER: Hi, Melissa. This is Mick Jagger here. Nice to be on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
BLOCK: What a way to end the week. Mick Jagger is the last in our series of chats with The Rolling Stones. The band is marking 50 years together. They have a new collection of greatest hits and are getting ready for a handful of shows. We asked each of The Stones to pick one song to talk about. So far this week, we've heard from Keith Richards, Charlie Watts, Ronnie Wood and now Mick.
JAGGER: You want to talk about "Gimme Shelter"?
BLOCK: Do you want to talk about "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: Not really, but I can. I'm very open to talking about "Gimme Shelter."
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: It was released in 1969, and we did follow-up versions of it, and it was very exciting.
BLOCK: Well, do me a favor. We have it cued up here. So let's play it.
JAGGER: Go on.
BLOCK: If you don't mind, talk over it as we're listening to it if that's OK.
JAGGER: Talk over it.
BLOCK: Yeah.
JAGGER: Sacrilegious.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: I could rap over it if you'd like.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: Just tell us what we hear. So here's the opening.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: (Unintelligible) two versions of Keith over the top.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Layered - two layers of Keith.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: And Jimmy Miller playing the scraper, and Charlie playing the drums.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
BLOCK: And that high vocal there?
JAGGER: That's me. Oh, that's Mick Jagger singing a high falsetto vocal.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Yeah. I was doing that the other day in rehearsal.
BLOCK: Yeah?
JAGGER: Yeah.
BLOCK: You could still get there?
JAGGER: Yeah, probably.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: I've got much higher ones than that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: And then we - we leave the Latin groove behind, and then the sort of rock thing starts.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Oh, a storm is threatening my very life today.
JAGGER: There's old me and (unintelligible) me and me and me singing.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
STONES: (Singing) If I don't get some shelter, oh, yeah, I'm going to fade away. War, children, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away. War...
JAGGER: When we got to Los Angeles and we were mixing it, we thought, well, it'd be great to have a woman come and do the rape-murder verse or chorus or whatever you want to call it. And so we randomly phoned up this poor lady in the middle of the night, and she arrived in her curlers.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: No kidding?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
MERRY CLAYTON: (Singing) Rape, murder, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away.
BLOCK: This is the singer Merry Clayton.
JAGGER: It's Merry Clayton, yeah. And Merry came in pink curlers. I think Merry - Merry, I'm sorry, but - for so telling you on this. It wasn't a dressing gown. I think she got a dress by then. And she came in and knocked this off this rather odd lyric. It's not sort of the lyric you give everyone, you know, rape, murder, it's just a shot away, but she proceeded to do that in like one or two takes, and she's pretty amazing. And she really got into it, as you can hear on the record, and she, you know, she joins the chorus, and it's been a great live song ever since.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
CLAYTON: (Singing) It's just a shot away. It's just a shot away. Rape, murder, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away.
BLOCK: Her voice really, really cracks at the high point of the song.
JAGGER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she does a great job on this.
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit. When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
BLOCK: Kind of apocalyptic, really.
JAGGER: Yeah. Kind of, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: And, you know, it's still wheeled out when big storms happen, as they did the other week, you know? And it's been used a lot to evoke natural disaster.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Oh, that's my harmonica part there. Only two notes, but it shows what you can do with two notes.
BLOCK: Let's hear it. Let's crank that up right now.
JAGGER: Go.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
BLOCK: It is just two notes.
JAGGER: It is just two notes.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: That's because of a crummy keyed harmonica...
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: ...anyways, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: You shouldn't have told me about it. It just spoiled the whole illusion of (unintelligible).
JAGGER: I didn't spoil it. It just shows you what you can do with two notes.
BLOCK: There you go.
JAGGER: You didn't have to put - it is economy of style.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: Well, you're getting ready to go out for a few shows, a couple in England and a few here. What do you do to get ready? It's such a physical thing that you do, and you're how old now?
JAGGER: I don't know.
BLOCK: Aha.
JAGGER: That's Charlie's line.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: But...
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: How old are you, Melissa?
BLOCK: I'm 50.
JAGGER: Oh, it's a nice age.
BLOCK: It's a round number.
JAGGER: It's a very nice age. What do I do to get ready? Well, I do what I've always done for the last, oh, forever years. You know, I have to get up the fitness level, sing a lot, practice, get in the mood and generally - and do lots of rehearsal. Get your body and mind ready.
BLOCK: How do you get your mind ready?
JAGGER: Well, you get in the idea that you're going to be out there on stage and crank up the ego a bit.
BLOCK: I bet that's the key part of it. You have to crank up the ego to do what you do.
JAGGER: Yeah. You kind of do, but you can't really - that's something that I don't actually really do, if you know what I mean. I mean, you do it, but you don't sort of - it's not part of the training. And there's the clothes, of course.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: I'm not forgetting the clothes. That's a very important...
BLOCK: It's key.
JAGGER: ...part of the prep, totally key because, to be honest, you do have to because it makes you feel good. And you've got to have, you know, fresh wardrobe. And you can't just go out there looking like you did last time. And then you - that helps your transformation. You know, being in a rock band, you can't kind of overdo the costume changes too much because everyone thinks, oh, that's not a real rock band. Look how many times he changes costumes.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: That's not rock. Rock is about going on in a T-shirt and staying in it and getting it all dirty. But that's not really my approach.
BLOCK: You know, none of the members of The Rolling Stones chose the song that I kind of hoped one of you would.
JAGGER: Which was what?
BLOCK: "Wild Horses."
JAGGER: Oh, lovely.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WILD HORSES")
JAGGER: It's quite a favorite of mine to do as the ballad as we don't do that many. Being a rock band, we do - we've got lots of ballads, but we don't do many. And we could do a whole show of ballads (unintelligible) and everyone would brought to tears, probably. But, you know, we do only a couple per show, so we have to select them, and I quite often select that one.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WILD HORSES")
STONES: (Singing) Childhood living is easy to do.
BLOCK: Well, Mick Jagger, it's been great to talk to you. Thank you so much.
JAGGER: Nice to talk to you, Melissa, and I hope it all comes out for you well.
BLOCK: Thank you and likewise.
JAGGER: Bye-bye.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 19:37 by wanderingspirit66.
Evidently neither of you have followed the thread much, and to take a quote out of context is your loss!
I suggest rereading the last three or four pages, and report back when you have a proper clue before casting judgement.
But to regurgitate it all and spoon feed for you:
Weak track - especially in the context of the album IMO.
Not every great album is filled to the brim with great tunes IMO. .
A precursor to the superior Memo From Turner IMO.
Nice guitar from Keith IMO.
Bad lyrics IMO.
"Oh, there's twenty-thousand grandmas
Wave their hankies in the air
All burning up their pensions
And shouting, "It's not fair!"
Some may find those lines deep and profound, but for me they're a cheap knockoff of Dylan that come across as ridiculous.
Of course there are those who disagree with all of the above- some of them cheerleaders who praise everything - yay!!! But one mans junk is another mans treasure. IMO.
It's great to have a mind of my own and be able to come to one's own conclusion IMO. Sorry if my opinion doesn't concur with yours 100%, and extra sorry if it hurts you feelings.
IMO the tune should have been left off the album, and would have been better in the context of More Hot Rocks.
"There's a tramp sittin' on my doorstep
Tryin' to waste his time
With his methylated sandwich
He's a walking clothesline"
Brilliant.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
That was all enlightening wanderingspirit66, thanks, but had to fix your quote as everything above is solely from Doxa which I would never take credit for.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited now to ensure that the text above is attributed solely to Doxa
So this is Mick trying to take credit for GS.
He knows he wrote a lot of the words, but he can't really remember anymore.
Mick once tried to write a biography but gave up because he can't remember much from the past. But he can remember he wrote some of the words to GS but not anymore to be honest. Oh dear can't we even give Keith GS, i think Keith wrote GS, at least give him that.
Yes that's it, i want to know how much he wrote, Mick says he can't remember.
To my mind if he can't remember then i give it to keith lol who also probably can't remember
However Keith has said that HE wrote GS and Keith has an excellent memory.
I guess we will never know but its important to me because i just love it, nothing comes close musically.
Some have commented that GS is the sound of Heroin, i honestly wouldn't know , but it does sound like its from another dimension, especially the original studio version.
Link?
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
[www.youtube.com]
00.9-0:15.
Mick has claimed to have contributed before, and it has been discussed here as well.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
DP can you just confirm, if Mick says something do you always believe it ??
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
Yeah, and think that awful, jealous Jagger fellow who constantly lies that it was actually him writing those nice words from Keith to Riffie...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 22:15 by Doxa.
Haha very funny, i must admit my punctuation and writing is crap. I meant to say, to me these lyrics sound like Keiths.
Just a guess; We'll never know for sure if they even know for sure and certain at this point. Just for fun I'd venture it was Mick on the 'red coal carpet' line because Keith's writing seems to be direct first person narrative and not so much metaphor per se...whereas I think Jags, as we could see when he sort of semi-clumsily, at times, started branching out lyricall all Dylanesque or Ray Davies-esque; playing with those literary images and descriptions. Just a wild sswing at the ball tho. I wouldn't put it past either of them to surprise me with who wrote what song; or what part of whatever song,.
I think of signature songs by Keith in a range. Say "Happy" and "Before They Make Me Run," are good examples of Keith's first-person declarative approach lyrically. Not that Mick doesn't do that but Keith seems to pride himself on more 'straight-ahead' feelings and business; he comes by the poetry in Angie and others honestly, but without dressing. He's not setting the descriptive scen in Angie, or making metaphors. Also Angie, which has some stark poetic lines, go ahead laugh; i know it's hip to hate that one, but Angie the same kind of thing. His 'character' talking directly to 'angie' and it's an impossible break-up song of profound heartache. Did that Stones blues cover album have any of those excellent cats working out Angie? Beautiful lyrics and a lot of soul. If I was a DJ I'd have double-plays of Angie into New Faces just to @#$%& with people. and also to groove along w The Rolling Stones.
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I've never taken "Angie" seriously and I think it all stems from that '73 appearance on Don Kirshner's show. They played "Dancing With Mr D," "Silver Train," and a straightforward (even lovely) version of "Angie" ... and then a jokey 'Country Honk"-esque version of "Angie," featuring, if my memory serves, a goofy-ass Mick in a straw hat. It made me think that even they didn't take the song seriously ... and so I never did!
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: July 3, 2017 16:16
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
Doxa
It is a great track in a great album.
- Doxa
An understatement. Let's readjust it: "Jig-Saw Puzzle" is a wonderful track in a brilliant album.
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: July 3, 2017 16:31
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Yes and no. Of course he was a pro; a road warrior, socialite, budding film star - the package. Probably had every right to be about as self confident as an person on the planet.
Still - I Know that there is a huge difference between introducing a song to the band, when it is you with one or two partners. You come as kind of a team, and you feel kind of sure about what you got, because the kinks have already been tackled.
Coming out alone, with a guitar, and saying "this is what I have", is hard always. I suspect it would have been especially hard for him to play it to Keith.
But I don't really know if this had not happened earlier. Or of these were the first songs he brought out alone.
That said I think this would be an incredible title, or headline for a book or essay on Jagger. "Paper, Puzzle, Devil & Sugar".
I know what you mean, and completely agree.
In fact what I was trying to say is that Puzzle might have been the second "complete" song that Jagger brought to the band, but for sure it was not the second song he ever wrote!
Nice pages on this issue in Life. How many songs M&K penned for other artists before having the guts to present them to the band?
I am sure that the same was true also for Mick. And more so, knowing how perfectionist and proud he is. How many songs had he worked on before being able to say: "Guys, Keith, this is MY song"
I don't have a clue of how that first demo sounded like. Earliest take I've heard has the piano already going and the slide theme there.
C
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: July 3, 2017 17:12
Quote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 3, 2017 17:32
Quote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
It's indeed some HMS kind of thinking, calling Jigsaw Puzzle a "weak track" when there's not one weak track on BEGGARS.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wanderingspirit66
()
Date: July 3, 2017 18:05
Quote
Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
Not to take anything away from Keith's genius in composing Gimme Shelter but Jagger did say that he wrote a lot of the words to Gimme Shelter. This interview below with Melissa Block on NPR is the only time I have heard either Jagger or Richards specifically say anything about the writing of the lyrics to Gimme Shelter.
November 16, 20124:37 PM ET
[www.npr.org]
From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Audie Cornish.
MELISSA BLOCK, HOST:
And I'm Melissa Block.
MICK JAGGER: Hi, Melissa. This is Mick Jagger here. Nice to be on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
BLOCK: What a way to end the week. Mick Jagger is the last in our series of chats with The Rolling Stones. The band is marking 50 years together. They have a new collection of greatest hits and are getting ready for a handful of shows. We asked each of The Stones to pick one song to talk about. So far this week, we've heard from Keith Richards, Charlie Watts, Ronnie Wood and now Mick.
JAGGER: You want to talk about "Gimme Shelter"?
BLOCK: Do you want to talk about "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: Not really, but I can. I'm very open to talking about "Gimme Shelter."
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: It was released in 1969, and we did follow-up versions of it, and it was very exciting.
BLOCK: Well, do me a favor. We have it cued up here. So let's play it.
JAGGER: Go on.
BLOCK: If you don't mind, talk over it as we're listening to it if that's OK.
JAGGER: Talk over it.
BLOCK: Yeah.
JAGGER: Sacrilegious.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: I could rap over it if you'd like.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: Just tell us what we hear. So here's the opening.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: (Unintelligible) two versions of Keith over the top.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Layered - two layers of Keith.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: And Jimmy Miller playing the scraper, and Charlie playing the drums.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
BLOCK: And that high vocal there?
JAGGER: That's me. Oh, that's Mick Jagger singing a high falsetto vocal.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Yeah. I was doing that the other day in rehearsal.
BLOCK: Yeah?
JAGGER: Yeah.
BLOCK: You could still get there?
JAGGER: Yeah, probably.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: I've got much higher ones than that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: And then we - we leave the Latin groove behind, and then the sort of rock thing starts.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
THE ROLLING STONES: (Singing) Oh, a storm is threatening my very life today.
JAGGER: There's old me and (unintelligible) me and me and me singing.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
STONES: (Singing) If I don't get some shelter, oh, yeah, I'm going to fade away. War, children, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away. War...
JAGGER: When we got to Los Angeles and we were mixing it, we thought, well, it'd be great to have a woman come and do the rape-murder verse or chorus or whatever you want to call it. And so we randomly phoned up this poor lady in the middle of the night, and she arrived in her curlers.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: No kidding?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
MERRY CLAYTON: (Singing) Rape, murder, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away.
BLOCK: This is the singer Merry Clayton.
JAGGER: It's Merry Clayton, yeah. And Merry came in pink curlers. I think Merry - Merry, I'm sorry, but - for so telling you on this. It wasn't a dressing gown. I think she got a dress by then. And she came in and knocked this off this rather odd lyric. It's not sort of the lyric you give everyone, you know, rape, murder, it's just a shot away, but she proceeded to do that in like one or two takes, and she's pretty amazing. And she really got into it, as you can hear on the record, and she, you know, she joins the chorus, and it's been a great live song ever since.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
CLAYTON: (Singing) It's just a shot away. It's just a shot away. Rape, murder, it's just a shot away. It's just a shot away.
BLOCK: Her voice really, really cracks at the high point of the song.
JAGGER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, she does a great job on this.
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit. When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
BLOCK: Kind of apocalyptic, really.
JAGGER: Yeah. Kind of, yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: And, you know, it's still wheeled out when big storms happen, as they did the other week, you know? And it's been used a lot to evoke natural disaster.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
JAGGER: Oh, that's my harmonica part there. Only two notes, but it shows what you can do with two notes.
BLOCK: Let's hear it. Let's crank that up right now.
JAGGER: Go.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GIMME SHELTER")
BLOCK: It is just two notes.
JAGGER: It is just two notes.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: That's because of a crummy keyed harmonica...
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: ...anyways, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: You shouldn't have told me about it. It just spoiled the whole illusion of (unintelligible).
JAGGER: I didn't spoil it. It just shows you what you can do with two notes.
BLOCK: There you go.
JAGGER: You didn't have to put - it is economy of style.
(LAUGHTER)
BLOCK: Well, you're getting ready to go out for a few shows, a couple in England and a few here. What do you do to get ready? It's such a physical thing that you do, and you're how old now?
JAGGER: I don't know.
BLOCK: Aha.
JAGGER: That's Charlie's line.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: But...
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: How old are you, Melissa?
BLOCK: I'm 50.
JAGGER: Oh, it's a nice age.
BLOCK: It's a round number.
JAGGER: It's a very nice age. What do I do to get ready? Well, I do what I've always done for the last, oh, forever years. You know, I have to get up the fitness level, sing a lot, practice, get in the mood and generally - and do lots of rehearsal. Get your body and mind ready.
BLOCK: How do you get your mind ready?
JAGGER: Well, you get in the idea that you're going to be out there on stage and crank up the ego a bit.
BLOCK: I bet that's the key part of it. You have to crank up the ego to do what you do.
JAGGER: Yeah. You kind of do, but you can't really - that's something that I don't actually really do, if you know what I mean. I mean, you do it, but you don't sort of - it's not part of the training. And there's the clothes, of course.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: I'm not forgetting the clothes. That's a very important...
BLOCK: It's key.
JAGGER: ...part of the prep, totally key because, to be honest, you do have to because it makes you feel good. And you've got to have, you know, fresh wardrobe. And you can't just go out there looking like you did last time. And then you - that helps your transformation. You know, being in a rock band, you can't kind of overdo the costume changes too much because everyone thinks, oh, that's not a real rock band. Look how many times he changes costumes.
(LAUGHTER)
JAGGER: That's not rock. Rock is about going on in a T-shirt and staying in it and getting it all dirty. But that's not really my approach.
BLOCK: You know, none of the members of The Rolling Stones chose the song that I kind of hoped one of you would.
JAGGER: Which was what?
BLOCK: "Wild Horses."
JAGGER: Oh, lovely.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WILD HORSES")
JAGGER: It's quite a favorite of mine to do as the ballad as we don't do that many. Being a rock band, we do - we've got lots of ballads, but we don't do many. And we could do a whole show of ballads (unintelligible) and everyone would brought to tears, probably. But, you know, we do only a couple per show, so we have to select them, and I quite often select that one.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WILD HORSES")
STONES: (Singing) Childhood living is easy to do.
BLOCK: Well, Mick Jagger, it's been great to talk to you. Thank you so much.
JAGGER: Nice to talk to you, Melissa, and I hope it all comes out for you well.
BLOCK: Thank you and likewise.
JAGGER: Bye-bye.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 19:37 by wanderingspirit66.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 3, 2017 19:26
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
liddas
So many interesting things here since the last time I checked the thread.
I'll try to catch up later, as soon as I recover from the shock for reading on a Stones allegedly "fan" site that Jigsaw Puzzle is one of the weakest tracks on Beggars and a clear example of, what?, Jagger still being a novice at songwriting ...
Puzzle is not Beggars' best track only because we have Devil and Street Fighting man on the same album. Yet it remains one of the most brilliant pieces of music ever put on tape by the stones.
And - since this is a Jagger thread - one of Mick's best vocal interpretations ever. You do not even need to understand what he is raving about with the lyrics, he gets across THAT FEEL just right and perfect!
C
I jumped in my chair when I read that, too, but I've learned through the years here that taste is hard to discuss.
I think many don't like or appreciate the surprising maturity of the track, though.
Lol it's a weak track imo, crucify me all you want!
...
Wow, haven't followed the thread much but this is certainly shocking, figured it would have been HMS to come up w/ this.
It's indeed some HMS kind of thinking, calling Jigsaw Puzzle a "weak track" when there's not one weak track on BEGGARS.
Evidently neither of you have followed the thread much, and to take a quote out of context is your loss!
I suggest rereading the last three or four pages, and report back when you have a proper clue before casting judgement.
But to regurgitate it all and spoon feed for you:
Weak track - especially in the context of the album IMO.
Not every great album is filled to the brim with great tunes IMO. .
A precursor to the superior Memo From Turner IMO.
Nice guitar from Keith IMO.
Bad lyrics IMO.
"Oh, there's twenty-thousand grandmas
Wave their hankies in the air
All burning up their pensions
And shouting, "It's not fair!"
Some may find those lines deep and profound, but for me they're a cheap knockoff of Dylan that come across as ridiculous.
Of course there are those who disagree with all of the above- some of them cheerleaders who praise everything - yay!!! But one mans junk is another mans treasure. IMO.
It's great to have a mind of my own and be able to come to one's own conclusion IMO. Sorry if my opinion doesn't concur with yours 100%, and extra sorry if it hurts you feelings.
IMO the tune should have been left off the album, and would have been better in the context of More Hot Rocks.
"There's a tramp sittin' on my doorstep
Tryin' to waste his time
With his methylated sandwich
He's a walking clothesline"
Brilliant.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 3, 2017 19:31
Quote
wanderingspirit66Quote
Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
That was all enlightening wanderingspirit66, thanks, but had to fix your quote as everything above is solely from Doxa which I would never take credit for.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wanderingspirit66
()
Date: July 3, 2017 19:36
Quote
HairballQuote
wanderingspirit66Quote
Doxa
As far as "Gimme Shelter" go, that's purely a brainchild of Keith Richards (though that not to be mentioned in a thread dedicated supposedly to MIck Jaggers contributions is probably not that odd). Keith has said that it is one of those rather rare examples in which he wrote the music and lyrics at the same token - a true burst of creativity (and haven't even heard Jagger 'polishing' the lyrics or anything like that). His - and his band's, if not of rock music's - biggest hour, both lyrically and musically (not to forget all the genius guitar arrangement setting the extraordinary feel so perfectly). Had Keith never wrote anything else, in my book he would be one of the best music writers of rock and roll of all-time thanks solely to this tune. It is just so @#$%& brilliant.
- Doxa
That was all enlightening wanderingspirit66, thanks, but had to fix your quote as everything above is solely from Doxa which I would never take credit for.
Edited now to ensure that the text above is attributed solely to Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 3, 2017 19:44
Cheers wanderingspirit66.
And from your original post:
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit.
When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
__________________________________________________
Now that we know this, it would be interesting to know exactly what Mick came up with vs. what was already there.
I'm assuming Keith had not only the music and title (?), but how much did it evolve with the help of Mick?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
And from your original post:
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit.
When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
__________________________________________________
Now that we know this, it would be interesting to know exactly what Mick came up with vs. what was already there.
I'm assuming Keith had not only the music and title (?), but how much did it evolve with the help of Mick?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: July 3, 2017 20:00
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 21:05 by hopkins.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 21:05 by hopkins.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:16
Quote
Hairball
Cheers wanderingspirit66.
And from your original post:
BLOCK: Who did what in writing this song?
JAGGER: Keith wrote the tune, and I wrote a lot of the words.
BLOCK: What were you thinking when you were coming up with the words for "Gimme Shelter"?
JAGGER: I can't remember really anymore, to be honest, but, you know, it was a very moody piece about the world closing in on you a bit.
When it was recorded, like, early '69 or something, you know, it was a time of war and tension, and so that's reflected in this tune.
__________________________________________________
Now that we know this, it would be interesting to know exactly what Mick came up with vs. what was already there.
I'm assuming Keith had not only the music and title (?), but how much did it evolve with the help of Mick?
So this is Mick trying to take credit for GS.
He knows he wrote a lot of the words, but he can't really remember anymore.
Mick once tried to write a biography but gave up because he can't remember much from the past. But he can remember he wrote some of the words to GS but not anymore to be honest. Oh dear can't we even give Keith GS, i think Keith wrote GS, at least give him that.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:32
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
How much he wrote is another question..
How much he wrote is another question..
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:51
wanderingspirit66, thanks for bringing up that interview! Never seen that before, and, as we can see from my initial post, didn't have a clue about Mick's contribution in lyrics.
So, "Gimme Shelter" wasn't a 'pure' Richards song, but more like a classical case of The Twins co-work of Keith providing the music and probably the title and the key phrases, while Mick writing rest of the lyrics.
If memory serves - and I wouldn't count on it too much any longer - Keith has described writing at least the the opening lines at the same time as the music, including probably those ever key 'war, children, it's just a shot away" lines.
But of course, Mick's "I wrote a lot of the words" leaves quite a lot of possibilities...
But thanks again, wanderingspirit66 - it is always great to learn new things!
- Doxa
So, "Gimme Shelter" wasn't a 'pure' Richards song, but more like a classical case of The Twins co-work of Keith providing the music and probably the title and the key phrases, while Mick writing rest of the lyrics.
If memory serves - and I wouldn't count on it too much any longer - Keith has described writing at least the the opening lines at the same time as the music, including probably those ever key 'war, children, it's just a shot away" lines.
But of course, Mick's "I wrote a lot of the words" leaves quite a lot of possibilities...
But thanks again, wanderingspirit66 - it is always great to learn new things!
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:51
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
How much he wrote is another question..
Yes that's it, i want to know how much he wrote, Mick says he can't remember.
To my mind if he can't remember then i give it to keith lol who also probably can't remember
However Keith has said that HE wrote GS and Keith has an excellent memory.
I guess we will never know but its important to me because i just love it, nothing comes close musically.
Some have commented that GS is the sound of Heroin, i honestly wouldn't know , but it does sound like its from another dimension, especially the original studio version.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:56
One can question Richards' long-term memory.In a recent interview he stated that Taylor did the most contributions in the studio. I always thought it was on stage.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 21:58
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
One can question Richards' long-term memory.In a recent interview he stated that Taylor did the most contributions in the studio. I always thought it was on stage.
Link?
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:00
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:02
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:03
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
TheflyingDutchman
One can question Richards' long-term memory.In a recent interview he stated that Taylor did the most contributions in the studio. I always thought it was on stage.
Link?
[www.youtube.com]
00.9-0:15.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:05
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
Mick has claimed to have contributed before, and it has been discussed here as well.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:06
Quote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:08
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
The fact that Mick contributed to the GS-lyrics are not news.
Is that really been a so called common fact? "Gimme Shelter" is my favourite Stones tune and I've been reading a text or two about the Stones in my life, but I can't recall seeing that stated clearly. For example, Sean Egan in his LET IT BLEED book assumes it is all Keith. And many of Keith's own sayings seem to hint that he also created the song lyrically.
- Doxa
Mick has claimed to have contributed before, and it has been discussed here as well.
DP can you just confirm, if Mick says something do you always believe it ??
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:12
Quote
stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:14
DP. I also think you have been posting on here for so long that you start to form facts from opinions. Just because 5 or 6 people on a forum agree something is so, doesn't make it so.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:15
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
Yeah, and think that awful, jealous Jagger fellow who constantly lies that it was actually him writing those nice words from Keith to Riffie...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 22:15 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:17
Quote
DoxaQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4everQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
With all due respect i get the opposite feeling, these lyrics sound like the ones Keith writes to me, i could give lots of examples if you need evidence.
Riffie, it does not surprise me in the least that Keith writes lyrics to you. That's awfully nice of him as he must be quite a busy fellow.
Yeah, and think that awful, jealous Jagger fellow who constantly lies that it was actually him writing those nice words from Keith to Riffie...
- Doxa
Haha very funny, i must admit my punctuation and writing is crap. I meant to say, to me these lyrics sound like Keiths.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:18
It was a 1,000 years and many chemicals ago.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:19
Quote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
Just a guess; We'll never know for sure if they even know for sure and certain at this point. Just for fun I'd venture it was Mick on the 'red coal carpet' line because Keith's writing seems to be direct first person narrative and not so much metaphor per se...whereas I think Jags, as we could see when he sort of semi-clumsily, at times, started branching out lyricall all Dylanesque or Ray Davies-esque; playing with those literary images and descriptions. Just a wild sswing at the ball tho. I wouldn't put it past either of them to surprise me with who wrote what song; or what part of whatever song,.
I think of signature songs by Keith in a range. Say "Happy" and "Before They Make Me Run," are good examples of Keith's first-person declarative approach lyrically. Not that Mick doesn't do that but Keith seems to pride himself on more 'straight-ahead' feelings and business; he comes by the poetry in Angie and others honestly, but without dressing. He's not setting the descriptive scen in Angie, or making metaphors. Also Angie, which has some stark poetic lines, go ahead laugh; i know it's hip to hate that one, but Angie the same kind of thing. His 'character' talking directly to 'angie' and it's an impossible break-up song of profound heartache. Did that Stones blues cover album have any of those excellent cats working out Angie? Beautiful lyrics and a lot of soul. If I was a DJ I'd have double-plays of Angie into New Faces just to @#$%& with people. and also to groove along w The Rolling Stones.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:24
Quote
35love
It was a 1,000 years and many chemicals ago.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:30
Quote
hopkinsQuote
wonderboy
Remember GS has very few words. Two short verses and a chorus which is one phrase repeated twice.
Pure speculation, but I could see Keith coming in with the 'If I don't get some shelter...' line and Mick taking it from there.
Who came up with the 'Burns like a red coal carpet ...' would be interesting as that is the poetry in the song.
Just a guess; We'll never know for sure if they even know for sure and certain at this point. Just for fun I'd venture it was Mick on the 'red coal carpet' line because Keith's writing seems to be direct first person narrative and not so much metaphor per se...whereas I think Jags, as we could see when he sort of semi-clumsily, at times, started branching out lyricall all Dylanesque or Ray Davies-esque; playing with those literary images and descriptions. Just a wild sswing at the ball tho. I wouldn't put it past either of them to surprise me with who wrote what song; or what part of whatever song,.
I think of signature songs by Keith in a range. Say "Happy" and "Before They Make Me Run," are good examples of Keith's first-person declarative approach lyrically. Not that Mick doesn't do that but Keith seems to pride himself on more 'straight-ahead' feelings and business; he comes by the poetry in Angie and others honestly, but without dressing. He's not setting the descriptive scen in Angie, or making metaphors. Also Angie, which has some stark poetic lines, go ahead laugh; i know it's hip to hate that one, but Angie the same kind of thing. His 'character' talking directly to 'angie' and it's an impossible break-up song of profound heartache. Did that Stones blues cover album have any of those excellent cats working out Angie? Beautiful lyrics and a lot of soul. If I was a DJ I'd have double-plays of Angie into New Faces just to @#$%& with people. and also to groove along w The Rolling Stones.
I've never taken "Angie" seriously and I think it all stems from that '73 appearance on Don Kirshner's show. They played "Dancing With Mr D," "Silver Train," and a straightforward (even lovely) version of "Angie" ... and then a jokey 'Country Honk"-esque version of "Angie," featuring, if my memory serves, a goofy-ass Mick in a straw hat. It made me think that even they didn't take the song seriously ... and so I never did!
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