Tell Me :
Talk
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed. This also allows one to shape or add or suggest some new ideas as much as one wants to other's songs, without thinking anything about the credits (or like: 'don't you dare to touch on my song, @#$%&!'). They can, at least in a theory, just concentrate 100% on music, on pure creativity, not a thought wasted on credition-business. It could be, if we would continue the logic, that in some cases a 'Nanker Phelge' type of collective credition could have been more equal or right - since as is typical to Stones songs, they are so much shaped in the studio, many musicians giving a special contribution to song's feel. But then again, I would assume that some Mick or Keith type of 'more bigger contributor', coming with most of the music and all lyrics mostly, might feel a bit let down if, say, Charlie Watts gets as much of the credits as them, no matter how much they owe to him for that groove...
Another thing about Jagger/Richards teamship... I don't recall much them arguing ever - or at least in the great past - that whose songs to be used more. Namely, at the time when there started to be 'Mick' or 'Keith' songs, I don't remember there being fights over which ones to use. They sounded like if a song was good enough, they didn't mind from whom it derived from. No ego-play there. Both seemed to make other's one of their own... just thinking what Keith did to, say, "Brown Sugar" or Mick to, say, "Wild Horses"... It could be that some Darwinian reasons made it easier during the most druggie 70's days, Keith simply having not so many fresh songs to throw on the table - just those loose riff ideas Jagger started to be frustrated about at some point - so there quite naturally started to be more Jagger's songs on albums. But as been pointed many times here, it was during making EMOTIONAL RESCUE the Twins started to be unable to agree on anything. I guess from there on there have been real arguments like 'your songs are bloody awful, mines are better...'
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:10 by Doxa.
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
"memo from turner" would have made you think "sympathy" was from the same pen, no?
Sadly enough a statistical, but not a musical statement.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:15 by TheflyingDutchman.
Come off it Doxy, there's not a lot of difference in these lyrics. Its the same writing style imho.
And as you say , this is closer than solo attempts by Mick
Oh, a storm is threat'ning
My very life today
If I don't get some shelter
Oh yeah, I'm gonna fade away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Ooh, see the fire is sweepin'
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost its way
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder yeah!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away yea
The floods is threat'ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or…
That one doesn't count haha... you are absolutely right... when I am thinking Jagger's solo stuff I always forget that one... Comes like from a different planet.. compared to any solo Stones song (Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance).
- Doxa
Well, in my humble opinion, while neither of those is going to win a prize in even a highschool poetry contest, the lines from "Gimme Shelter" at least have the advantage of being obsessively focused on creating one unified claustrophobic paranoid apocalyptic frame of mind. As a result, the cumulative power of the lyric is compounded as the song progresses to its climax.
I don't know that Keith song but from the lyrics I can't even tell what it's about. First verse is about a dude who's lamenting the fact that some girl spurned him the morning after; second verse seems to be about a repressive society under martial law (?); 3rd verse is maybe ecological in theme ("the treasure from the land")?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:38 by LongBeachArena72.
I agree up to a point that the power struggle started at about this time, maybe a little earlier during the making of Some Girls. I think the story goes that when Keith cleaned up, Mick had got used to making the decisions and didn't appreciate the new invigorated Keith drug free lol. I mean Heroin free.
Keith has stated that its very rare for he and Mick to fall out while making music. Not sure if that's true but if it is, i wonder what exactly they do fall out over. Keith seems easy going these days, he lets Mick choose all the songs to play live and seems to leave the finishing of albums to Mick.
I can't see that Mick should have much cause to complain really.
I agree, but then again, had the Stones call it quits in late 60's or early 70's that wouldn't have necessarily mean that Mick and Keith wouldn't have colloborated any longer. I mean this kind of ego/camp/courts-thing dividing these two men and their 'fans' din't yet existed back then. And they weren't any lennonmccartneys (yet)... Keith could have added his thing on Mick's projects and vice versa. Who knows if 'Jagger/Richards'would have continued to live in a some form or other.
- Doxa
Seven Days was written by Bob Dylan.
A live version recorded in 1976 appeared on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1–3 (Rare & Unreleased) 1961–1991.
Ronnies studio version was released in 1979.
Seven Days
“[Dylan] was writing a song at the time called ‘Seven Days,’” Wood recalled. “I know he liked me because, out of the blue he just gave it to me.
He said, ‘You can have this one, Woody.’” That song stands out on the record as a true tour de force, a rollicking and rambling road ode that almost feels like Wood is channeling Dylan throughout.
__________________________________________________
Seven Days is hardly a million miles away from "Memos" brilliance - in fact it's more likely a million times better IMO.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 01:15 by Hairball.
By contrary, I think that the musical factor gains a lot by this deal, since they don't need to worry about the statistics...
- Doxa
GROOVY BOB -- The Life and Times Of Robert Fraser -- Harriet Vyner
ROCKMAN
Pardon my French but they all sound like a right load of @#$%& to me.
Your approach is as cold as ice. At least during the Taylor years MT brought in a lot of musical ideas that gave the glimmers a lot to think about and to use, not played by MT in the studio per se, but on stage. Those two ways of working together often are closer than kissing cousins.
Haha.. I still recall listening for the first time Ronnie's GIMME SOME NECK album.. None of the songs made any sense to me... just awfully recorded loose jamming with no point or focus and weak and boring writing... except "Seven Days", which sounded brilliant, and I was like 'wow, that Wood guy can actually write some damn good tunes'. Then I picked up the sleeve and discovered "Dylan"....'Hmm...Of course'... NECK was my first Wood album, and it probably left such a bad picture of his song-writing capacities that I have never recovered from that, and I have always had difficulties to take him seriously in that department. That said, his first two solo albums are fine albums, and there are some okayish songs here and there, especially during his Faces era.
It was interesting years later to hear that 'original' Dylan live version from 1976. But to me Ronnie's version is the 'real' version for me. A very good version in that Dylan anniversary show from the early 90's, too.
By the way, I recall reading one story in which "Seven Days" was first offered to Clapton to record, but after Slowhand had said no, Bob gave it to Ronnie (they were in a same room, if memory serves).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 01:34 by Doxa.
IMO you're channeling Bob Dylan throughout when you're part of his band and -on the the spot- translate on the guitar what Dylan is talking about.
[vimeo.com]
I never knew Clapton turned it down, but the fact he was in the same room is written clearly in the link I provided directly above the Ronnie quote I posted:
"In his memoir, Ronnie, Wood tells a story of hanging out one night in 1975, in the studio with Eric Clapton, who was working on his album No Reason to Cry. Bob Dylan was also taking part in the sessions, which took place not far from his home in Zuma Beach, Calif".
Apologies if I was confused, but your original post made it sound like you thought Ronnie had written Seven Days:
You said:
"when I am thinking Jagger's solo stuff I always forget that one (Memo)... Comes like from a different planet..
compared to any solo Stones song (Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance)"-Doxa.
Hence the confusion, but evidently you knew it was Dylan all along...
Anyhow, I agree Ronnies original studio cover is the real deal for me as well - in fact when it was released and played on the radio, I swore it was a Dylan song with Dylan singing it until I bought Ronnies album. It's been said that Ronnies vocals sound like Dylan, and it's never been more clear than on Seven Days - it fooled me! Also the Dylan anniversary version is great - I remember watching that telecast live, and Ronnie was one of the many highlights.
Studio version:
Ron Wood - Seven Days
Live Dylan 30th anniversary:
Ronnie Wood - Seven Days LIVE
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 07:19 by Hairball.
Lol - I must be in one of those 7 or 8 then, but to be clear (which I wasn't before) I was referring specifically to Dylan's lyrics vs. Mick's, but I understand even that might not fly with some people.
______________________________________________________________
Seven days, seven more days she’ll be comin’
I’ll be waiting at the station for her to arrive
Seven more days, all I gotta do is survive
She been gone ever since I been a child
Ever since I seen her smile, I ain’t forgotten her eyes
She had a face that could outshine the sun in the skies
I been good, I been good while I been waitin’
Maybe guilty of hesitatin’, I just been holdin’ on
Seven more days, all that’ll be gone
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Seven days, seven more days that are connected
Just like I expected, she’ll be comin’ on forth
My beautiful comrade from the north
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 07:28 by Hairball.
I don't know, man.
This:
Seven days, seven more days she’ll be comin’
I’ll be waiting at the station for her to arrive
Seven more days, all I gotta do is survive
She been gone ever since I been a child
Ever since I seen her smile, I ain’t forgotten her eyes
She had a face that could outshine the sun in the skies
I been good, I been good while I been waitin’
Maybe guilty of hesitatin’, I just been holdin’ on
Seven more days, all that’ll be gone
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Seven days, seven more days that are connected
Just like I expected, she’ll be comin’ on forth
My beautiful comrade from the north
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Sounds pretty throwaway when compared to this:
Didn't I see you down in San Antone
On a hot and dusty night?
We were eating eggs in Sammy's
When the black man there drew his knife
Aw, you drowned that Jew in Rampton
As he washed his sleeveless shirt
You know, that Spanish-speaking gentlemen
The one we all called Kurt
Come now, gentleman
I know there's some mistake
How forgetful I'm becoming
Now you fixed your business straight
I remember you in Hemlock Road
In nineteen fifty-six
You're a faggy little leather boy
With a smaller piece of stick
You're a lashing, smashing hunk of man
Your sweat shines sweet and strong
Your organs working perfectly
But there's a part that's not screwed on
Weren't you at the Coke convention
Back in nineteen sixty-five
You're the misbred, gray executive
I've seen heavily advertised
You're the great, gray man whose daughter licks
Policemen's buttons clean
You're the man who squats behind the man
Who works the soft machine
Come now, gentleman
Your love is all I crave
You'll still be in the circus when I'm laughing
Laughing in my grave
When the old men do the fighting
And the young men all look on
And the young girls eat their mothers meat
From tubes of plasticon
Be wary of these my gentle friends
Of all the skins you breed
They have a tasty habit
They eat the hands that bleed
So remember who you say you are
And keep your noses clean
Boys will be boys and play with toys
So be strong with your beast
Oh Rosie dear, don'tcha think it's queer
So stop me if you please
The baby's dead, my lady said
"You gentlemen, why you all work for me?"
I think "Memo" is in the great tradition of songs like "Play With Fire" and "Mother's Little Helper," in which Jagger positively skewers English middle-class mores. I've never been able to locate the quote online, alas, but way back in the day Norman Mailer, when asked about The Stones, replied that he didn't care for their music but that Mick Jagger would have made a helluva novelist.
Come to think of it, having listened to "Turner" a couple of times, I don't think I ever forgave Mick Jagger for not being Turner. Instead, he became just a rock star who went on and on and on and on and on ...
I hear you LongBeach, but something about Seven Days hit's me stronger, and after listening to the above videos I edited in a couple posts above - followed by a listen to Memo - I'd have to pick Seven Days both lyrically AND musically if I was on a desert island and could only pick one. I was 16 when Seven Days hit the airwaves vs Memo which was never on my radar until it was released well after the fact on Metamorphosis (which I didn't even own until I was probably 16 also). In that context Seven Days has more meaning for me as it was fresh and new at the time vs. the "oddball" Memo relegated to Metamorphosis. Anyhow, difficult to judge objectively when something is so close to your heart, and in this case Seven Days edges Memo out for me. Perhaps if I had never heard either song and didn't know it was Jagger vs. Dylan (erasing all of the context of each), and then compared the lyrics side by side, I might have a different opinion.
But - when you mention Play With Fire and Mothers Little Helper - no doubt those two rise far above both Memo and Seven Days no matter what the context - if not lyrically then definitely musically (but probably both).
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 08:05 by Hairball.
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Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:35
I'm thinking Keith wrote lyrics similar on Running Too Deep
We scorch the earth
For all it's worth
Last night
You in ecstasy
Now you don't remember me
It's runnin' too deep
It's runnin' too deep for me
The sirens and the curfews
Through the night
Everybody's locked up tight
What's going on
It's been dark for much too long
It's runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep for me
If heaven looses face
What will take its place
We've torn the treasure from the land
Watched it turn to ashes in our hands
We scorch the earth
For all it's worth
Last night
You in ecstasy
Now you don't remember me
It's runnin' too deep
It's runnin' too deep for me
The sirens and the curfews
Through the night
Everybody's locked up tight
What's going on
It's been dark for much too long
It's runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep for me
If heaven looses face
What will take its place
We've torn the treasure from the land
Watched it turn to ashes in our hands
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 3, 2017 22:47
Back on the topic of Mick's solo stuff:
The Beatles solo had twenty #1 hits (either US or UK). That's of course more than The Stones had as a band.
The Liverpudlians were of course always more commercial than their scruffier London cousins. And some of the discrepancy in solo success can be attributed to the fact that Bill and Charlie could hardly be expected to stand up to the members of the Beatles as purveyors of chart-topping songs.
But I wonder if some of the discrepancy is also due to the fact that the Beatles went solo after they'd been together about 8-10 years while the Stones didn't start until more like 20-25 years into their careers. Had the band broken up, say, after "Let It Bleed," could Mick and/or Keith on their own have produced any #1 singles?
BTW, here are Mick's only US-UK top-100 singles as a non-Stone:
"Memo from Turner"--#32 in UK
"Just Another Night"--#12 US, #32 UK
"Lucky in Love"--#38 US, #91 UK
"Ruthless People"--#51 US
"Let's Work"--#39 US, #31 UK
"Throwaway"--#67 US
"Sweet Thing"--#84 US, #24 UK
"Don't Tear Me Up"--#86 UK
"Visions of Paradise"--#43 UK
"Old Habits Die Hard"--#45 UK
(He had other charting singles w Bowie, M Jackson, Peter Tosh, will.i.am & j-lo, but I didn't include those as true 'solo' efforts.)
The Beatles solo had twenty #1 hits (either US or UK). That's of course more than The Stones had as a band.
The Liverpudlians were of course always more commercial than their scruffier London cousins. And some of the discrepancy in solo success can be attributed to the fact that Bill and Charlie could hardly be expected to stand up to the members of the Beatles as purveyors of chart-topping songs.
But I wonder if some of the discrepancy is also due to the fact that the Beatles went solo after they'd been together about 8-10 years while the Stones didn't start until more like 20-25 years into their careers. Had the band broken up, say, after "Let It Bleed," could Mick and/or Keith on their own have produced any #1 singles?
BTW, here are Mick's only US-UK top-100 singles as a non-Stone:
"Memo from Turner"--#32 in UK
"Just Another Night"--#12 US, #32 UK
"Lucky in Love"--#38 US, #91 UK
"Ruthless People"--#51 US
"Let's Work"--#39 US, #31 UK
"Throwaway"--#67 US
"Sweet Thing"--#84 US, #24 UK
"Don't Tear Me Up"--#86 UK
"Visions of Paradise"--#43 UK
"Old Habits Die Hard"--#45 UK
(He had other charting singles w Bowie, M Jackson, Peter Tosh, will.i.am & j-lo, but I didn't include those as true 'solo' efforts.)
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:03
Quote
stone4everQuote
35love
It was a 1,000 years and many chemicals ago.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed. This also allows one to shape or add or suggest some new ideas as much as one wants to other's songs, without thinking anything about the credits (or like: 'don't you dare to touch on my song, @#$%&!'). They can, at least in a theory, just concentrate 100% on music, on pure creativity, not a thought wasted on credition-business. It could be, if we would continue the logic, that in some cases a 'Nanker Phelge' type of collective credition could have been more equal or right - since as is typical to Stones songs, they are so much shaped in the studio, many musicians giving a special contribution to song's feel. But then again, I would assume that some Mick or Keith type of 'more bigger contributor', coming with most of the music and all lyrics mostly, might feel a bit let down if, say, Charlie Watts gets as much of the credits as them, no matter how much they owe to him for that groove...
Another thing about Jagger/Richards teamship... I don't recall much them arguing ever - or at least in the great past - that whose songs to be used more. Namely, at the time when there started to be 'Mick' or 'Keith' songs, I don't remember there being fights over which ones to use. They sounded like if a song was good enough, they didn't mind from whom it derived from. No ego-play there. Both seemed to make other's one of their own... just thinking what Keith did to, say, "Brown Sugar" or Mick to, say, "Wild Horses"... It could be that some Darwinian reasons made it easier during the most druggie 70's days, Keith simply having not so many fresh songs to throw on the table - just those loose riff ideas Jagger started to be frustrated about at some point - so there quite naturally started to be more Jagger's songs on albums. But as been pointed many times here, it was during making EMOTIONAL RESCUE the Twins started to be unable to agree on anything. I guess from there on there have been real arguments like 'your songs are bloody awful, mines are better...'
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:10 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:08
Quote
stone4ever
I'm thinking Keith wrote lyrics similar on Running Too Deep
We scorch the earth
For all it's worth
Last night
You in ecstasy
Now you don't remember me
It's runnin' too deep
It's runnin' too deep for me
The sirens and the curfews
Through the night
Everybody's locked up tight
What's going on
It's been dark for much too long
It's runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep for me
If heaven looses face
What will take its place
We've torn the treasure from the land
Watched it turn to ashes in our hands
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:14
Quote
Doxa
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
"memo from turner" would have made you think "sympathy" was from the same pen, no?
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:15
Quote
DoxaQuote
stone4ever
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed.
- Doxa
Sadly enough a statistical, but not a musical statement.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:15 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:15
LB
But I wonder if some of the discrepancy is also due to the fact that the Beatles went solo after they'd been together about 8-10 years while the Stones didn't start until more like 20-25 years into their careers. Had the band broken up, say, after "Let It Bleed," could Mick and/or Keith on their own have produced any #1 singles?
Yes i think so, had Mick gone solo after 8 or 9 years, say the early 1970's, of course he could have bagged a number one hit, more likely in America than the UK. He might well have reached number one with a song like Brown Sugar.
As for Keith, i can't envisage a young Keith getting a number one Hit record no matter how good it might have been. Keith hadn't turned into KEEF the living legend at that point in time. Back then it was MICK JAGGER and the Rolling Stones.
Of course Mick was also capable of having a top ten hit in the 80's but he didn't come up with the goods, same thing goes for his chances of a major hit earlier in his career, he might have found it difficult at any point in his career to come up with the goods on his own.
But I wonder if some of the discrepancy is also due to the fact that the Beatles went solo after they'd been together about 8-10 years while the Stones didn't start until more like 20-25 years into their careers. Had the band broken up, say, after "Let It Bleed," could Mick and/or Keith on their own have produced any #1 singles?
Yes i think so, had Mick gone solo after 8 or 9 years, say the early 1970's, of course he could have bagged a number one hit, more likely in America than the UK. He might well have reached number one with a song like Brown Sugar.
As for Keith, i can't envisage a young Keith getting a number one Hit record no matter how good it might have been. Keith hadn't turned into KEEF the living legend at that point in time. Back then it was MICK JAGGER and the Rolling Stones.
Of course Mick was also capable of having a top ten hit in the 80's but he didn't come up with the goods, same thing goes for his chances of a major hit earlier in his career, he might have found it difficult at any point in his career to come up with the goods on his own.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:22
Quote
DoxaQuote
stone4ever
I'm thinking Keith wrote lyrics similar on Running Too Deep
We scorch the earth
For all it's worth
Last night
You in ecstasy
Now you don't remember me
It's runnin' too deep
It's runnin' too deep for me
The sirens and the curfews
Through the night
Everybody's locked up tight
What's going on
It's been dark for much too long
It's runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep for me
If heaven looses face
What will take its place
We've torn the treasure from the land
Watched it turn to ashes in our hands
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
Come off it Doxy, there's not a lot of difference in these lyrics. Its the same writing style imho.
And as you say , this is closer than solo attempts by Mick
Oh, a storm is threat'ning
My very life today
If I don't get some shelter
Oh yeah, I'm gonna fade away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Ooh, see the fire is sweepin'
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost its way
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder yeah!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away yea
The floods is threat'ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or…
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:23
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
Doxa
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
"memo from turner" would have made you think "sympathy" was from the same pen, no?
That one doesn't count haha... you are absolutely right... when I am thinking Jagger's solo stuff I always forget that one... Comes like from a different planet.. compared to any solo Stones song (Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance).
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:36
Quote
stone4everQuote
DoxaQuote
stone4ever
I'm thinking Keith wrote lyrics similar on Running Too Deep
We scorch the earth
For all it's worth
Last night
You in ecstasy
Now you don't remember me
It's runnin' too deep
It's runnin' too deep for me
The sirens and the curfews
Through the night
Everybody's locked up tight
What's going on
It's been dark for much too long
It's runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep
Runnin' too deep for me
If heaven looses face
What will take its place
We've torn the treasure from the land
Watched it turn to ashes in our hands
Wow, this is a good argument that the guy who come up with those lyrics, could never have come with the ones for "Gimme Shelter"....
(But then again, take any Jagger solo song, it is hard to believe that that guy once wrote something like "Sympathy For The Devil"...)
- Doxa
Come off it Doxy, there's not a lot of difference in these lyrics. Its the same writing style imho.
And as you say , this is closer than solo attempts by Mick
Oh, a storm is threat'ning
My very life today
If I don't get some shelter
Oh yeah, I'm gonna fade away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Ooh, see the fire is sweepin'
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost its way
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
War, children, it's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder yeah!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away
Rape, murder!
It's just a shot away
It's just a shot away yea
The floods is threat'ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or…
Well, in my humble opinion, while neither of those is going to win a prize in even a highschool poetry contest, the lines from "Gimme Shelter" at least have the advantage of being obsessively focused on creating one unified claustrophobic paranoid apocalyptic frame of mind. As a result, the cumulative power of the lyric is compounded as the song progresses to its climax.
I don't know that Keith song but from the lyrics I can't even tell what it's about. First verse is about a dude who's lamenting the fact that some girl spurned him the morning after; second verse seems to be about a repressive society under martial law (?); 3rd verse is maybe ecological in theme ("the treasure from the land")?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-03 23:38 by LongBeachArena72.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:38
Quote
DoxaQuote
stone4everQuote
35love
It was a 1,000 years and many chemicals ago.
Perhaps 'Glimmer Twins' really does suffice.
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed. This also allows one to shape or add or suggest some new ideas as much as one wants to other's songs, without thinking anything about the credits (or like: 'don't you dare to touch on my song, @#$%&!'). They can, at least in a theory, just concentrate 100% on music, on pure creativity, not a thought wasted on credition-business. It could be, if we would continue the logic, that in some cases a 'Nanker Phelge' type of collective credition could have been more equal or right - since as is typical to Stones songs, they are so much shaped in the studio, many musicians giving a special contribution to song's feel. But then again, I would assume that some Mick or Keith type of 'more bigger contributor', coming with most of the music and all lyrics mostly, might feel a bit let down if, say, Charlie Watts gets as much of the credits as them, no matter how much they owe to him for that groove...
Another thing about Jagger/Richards teamship... I don't recall much them arguing ever - or at least in the great past - that whose songs to be used more. Namely, at the time when there started to be 'Mick' or 'Keith' songs, I don't remember there being fights over which ones to use. They sounded like if a song was good enough, they didn't mind from whom it derived from. No ego-play there. Both seemed to make other's one of their own... just thinking what Keith did to, say, "Brown Sugar" or Mick to, say, "Wild Horses"... It could be that some Darwinian reasons made it easier during the most druggie 70's days, Keith simply having not so many fresh songs to throw on the table - just those loose riff ideas Jagger started to be frustrated about at some point - so there quite naturally started to be more Jagger's songs on albums. But as been pointed many times here, it was during making EMOTIONAL RESCUE the Twins started to be unable to agree on anything. I guess from there on there have been real arguments like 'your songs are bloody awful, mines are better...'
- Doxa
I agree up to a point that the power struggle started at about this time, maybe a little earlier during the making of Some Girls. I think the story goes that when Keith cleaned up, Mick had got used to making the decisions and didn't appreciate the new invigorated Keith drug free lol. I mean Heroin free.
Keith has stated that its very rare for he and Mick to fall out while making music. Not sure if that's true but if it is, i wonder what exactly they do fall out over. Keith seems easy going these days, he lets Mick choose all the songs to play live and seems to leave the finishing of albums to Mick.
I can't see that Mick should have much cause to complain really.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:39
Quote
stone4ever
LB
But I wonder if some of the discrepancy is also due to the fact that the Beatles went solo after they'd been together about 8-10 years while the Stones didn't start until more like 20-25 years into their careers. Had the band broken up, say, after "Let It Bleed," could Mick and/or Keith on their own have produced any #1 singles?
Yes i think so, had Mick gone solo after 8 or 9 years, say the early 1970's, of course he could have bagged a number one hit, more likely in America than the UK. He might well have reached number one with a song like Brown Sugar.
As for Keith, i can't envisage a young Keith getting a number one Hit record no matter how good it might have been. Keith hadn't turned into KEEF the living legend at that point in time. Back then it was MICK JAGGER and the Rolling Stones.
Of course Mick was also capable of having a top ten hit in the 80's but he didn't come up with the goods, same thing goes for his chances of a major hit earlier in his career, he might have found it difficult at any point in his career to come up with the goods on his own.
I agree, but then again, had the Stones call it quits in late 60's or early 70's that wouldn't have necessarily mean that Mick and Keith wouldn't have colloborated any longer. I mean this kind of ego/camp/courts-thing dividing these two men and their 'fans' din't yet existed back then. And they weren't any lennonmccartneys (yet)... Keith could have added his thing on Mick's projects and vice versa. Who knows if 'Jagger/Richards'would have continued to live in a some form or other.
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 3, 2017 23:49
This might be the reason why the standard of songwriting has fallen.
If we have this scenario where Mick and Keith are thinking 'my songs are better than yours' kind of attitude. Well its a no brainer that the quality of the music is going to suffer. If they are not being supportive of each other, they are not working together in a pure sense. I believe this to be their undoing as artists, i know everyone on here thinks i bang on too much about jealousy between them being the main issue, but it is.
If we have this scenario where Mick and Keith are thinking 'my songs are better than yours' kind of attitude. Well its a no brainer that the quality of the music is going to suffer. If they are not being supportive of each other, they are not working together in a pure sense. I believe this to be their undoing as artists, i know everyone on here thinks i bang on too much about jealousy between them being the main issue, but it is.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 4, 2017 00:50
I was always under the impression Gimme Shelter was a Keith song through and through, but was not 100% sure of the accuracy - hence my post from several days ago:
Now that wanderingspirit66 has shedded some light on it with Mick saying he indeed wrote some of the lyrics, the mystery remains as to what he might have added lyrically.
But here's an interesting article that doesn't solve the mystery as to who wrote what, but it shows that Keith and Mick have completely different takes on the inspiration of it:
GIMME SHELTER
Meanwhile, Mick and Keith were having their own personal problems. In the soap opera of the Stones' love lives - it was the late-1960s after all - Keith had taken up with Jones' girlfriend of two years, Italian model and actress Anita Pallenberg, in 1967.
In early 1969, Pallenberg was acting with Mick in the British gangster film Performance, and the two had an affair. Some have suggested the sense of stormy menace in Gimme Shelter is directly related to Keith's feelings of betrayal. It should be pointed out that Keith has admitted that, in an act of revenge, he had sex - just once - with Mick's girlfriend, Marianne Faithfull.
__________________________________________________________________________
Mick's version:
Mick has always talked about the lyrics to Gimme Shelter as reflecting the times at the end of the 1960s. In a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "Well, it [was] a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense. The thing about Vietnam was that it wasn't like World War II, and it wasn't like Korea, and it wasn't like the Gulf War. It was a real nasty war, and people didn't like it. People objected, and people didn't want to fight it."
VS Keiths version:
Keith's take on it is more personal. He reflected on the song in Life, his 2010 memoir: "I wrote Gimme Shelter on a stormy day, sitting in Robert Fraser's apartment in Mount Street (in London's exclusive Mayfair). Anita was shooting Performance at the time, not far away.
"It was just a terrible @#$%& day and it was storming out there. I was sitting there in Mount Street and there was this incredible storm over London, so I got into that mode, just looking out of Robert's window and looking at all these people with their umbrellas being blown out of their grasp and running like hell. And the idea came to me. My thought was storms on other people's minds, not mine. It just happened to hit the moment."
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Quote
Hairball
As for Keith songs written entirely on his own (and correct me if I'm wrong), I haven't seen Gimme Shelter mentioned - I mean that's the epitome of a great Stones tune right there. Other than some of Mick's greatest vocals, did Mick add anything else to the tune? I always thought it was 100% Keith music and lyrics, but maybe there's more to the story I'm unaware of?
Now that wanderingspirit66 has shedded some light on it with Mick saying he indeed wrote some of the lyrics, the mystery remains as to what he might have added lyrically.
But here's an interesting article that doesn't solve the mystery as to who wrote what, but it shows that Keith and Mick have completely different takes on the inspiration of it:
GIMME SHELTER
Meanwhile, Mick and Keith were having their own personal problems. In the soap opera of the Stones' love lives - it was the late-1960s after all - Keith had taken up with Jones' girlfriend of two years, Italian model and actress Anita Pallenberg, in 1967.
In early 1969, Pallenberg was acting with Mick in the British gangster film Performance, and the two had an affair. Some have suggested the sense of stormy menace in Gimme Shelter is directly related to Keith's feelings of betrayal. It should be pointed out that Keith has admitted that, in an act of revenge, he had sex - just once - with Mick's girlfriend, Marianne Faithfull.
__________________________________________________________________________
Mick's version:
Mick has always talked about the lyrics to Gimme Shelter as reflecting the times at the end of the 1960s. In a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, he said, "Well, it [was] a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense. The thing about Vietnam was that it wasn't like World War II, and it wasn't like Korea, and it wasn't like the Gulf War. It was a real nasty war, and people didn't like it. People objected, and people didn't want to fight it."
VS Keiths version:
Keith's take on it is more personal. He reflected on the song in Life, his 2010 memoir: "I wrote Gimme Shelter on a stormy day, sitting in Robert Fraser's apartment in Mount Street (in London's exclusive Mayfair). Anita was shooting Performance at the time, not far away.
"It was just a terrible @#$%& day and it was storming out there. I was sitting there in Mount Street and there was this incredible storm over London, so I got into that mode, just looking out of Robert's window and looking at all these people with their umbrellas being blown out of their grasp and running like hell. And the idea came to me. My thought was storms on other people's minds, not mine. It just happened to hit the moment."
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:07
Quote
Doxa
Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance
Seven Days was written by Bob Dylan.
A live version recorded in 1976 appeared on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1–3 (Rare & Unreleased) 1961–1991.
Ronnies studio version was released in 1979.
Seven Days
“[Dylan] was writing a song at the time called ‘Seven Days,’” Wood recalled. “I know he liked me because, out of the blue he just gave it to me.
He said, ‘You can have this one, Woody.’” That song stands out on the record as a true tour de force, a rollicking and rambling road ode that almost feels like Wood is channeling Dylan throughout.
__________________________________________________
Seven Days is hardly a million miles away from "Memos" brilliance - in fact it's more likely a million times better IMO.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 01:15 by Hairball.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:12
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DoxaQuote
stone4ever
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed.
- Doxa
Sadly enough a statistical, but not a musical statement.
By contrary, I think that the musical factor gains a lot by this deal, since they don't need to worry about the statistics...
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:17
GROOVY BOB -- The Life and Times Of Robert Fraser -- Harriet Vyner
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:22
Quote
Rockman
GROOVY BOB -- The Life and Times Of Robert Fraser -- Harriet Vyner
Pardon my French but they all sound like a right load of @#$%& to me.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:28
LB
Pardon my French but they all sound like a right load of @#$%& to me.
Classic
Pardon my French but they all sound like a right load of @#$%& to me.
Classic
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:30
Quote
DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
DoxaQuote
stone4ever
haha yeah they must get to the end of recording and a few months later the record company want to know who to credit, so Mick and keith sit down and start arguing about who wrote what until they both agree fvck it, Glimmers man , that's who wrote it.
Prob explains why Taylor never got a look in
I think you actually give here a good reason why the business deal Jagger-Richards is such a handy one in practise: they don't need to be jealous or worry how much one supposedly contributes: the deal always go fify-fifty, no matter how much one contributed.
- Doxa
Sadly enough a statistical, but not a musical statement.
By contrary, I think that the musical factor gains a lot by this deal, since they don't need to worry about the statistics...
- Doxa
Your approach is as cold as ice. At least during the Taylor years MT brought in a lot of musical ideas that gave the glimmers a lot to think about and to use, not played by MT in the studio per se, but on stage. Those two ways of working together often are closer than kissing cousins.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:32
Keith says their arguments were always about music, but I agree with the idea that there was rivalry between them so they fought about music.
My impression is that Mick wants to get his way all the time, whereas Keith is often quite compliant and just showed and did what he was told. So long as the rhythm section stuck with him when they were playing he was fine.
Keith is quite insecure at times -- notice the comment that he was a bit awed that a cultured man like Robert Fraser was taking notice of a 'guitar player from Dartford.'
My impression is that Mick wants to get his way all the time, whereas Keith is often quite compliant and just showed and did what he was told. So long as the rhythm section stuck with him when they were playing he was fine.
Keith is quite insecure at times -- notice the comment that he was a bit awed that a cultured man like Robert Fraser was taking notice of a 'guitar player from Dartford.'
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:32
Quote
HairballQuote
Doxa
Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance
Seven Days was written by Bob Dylan.
A live version recorded in 1976 appeared on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1–3 (Rare & Unreleased) 1961–1991.
Ronnies studio version was released in 1979.
Seven Days
“[Dylan] was writing a song at the time called ‘Seven Days,’” Wood recalled. “I know he liked me because, out of the blue he just gave it to me.
He said, ‘You can have this one, Woody.’” That song stands out on the record as a true tour de force, a rollicking and rambling road ode that almost feels like Wood is channeling Dylan throughout.
__________________________________________________
Hardly a million miles away from "Memos" brilliance IMO - in fact it's more likely a million times better.
Haha.. I still recall listening for the first time Ronnie's GIMME SOME NECK album.. None of the songs made any sense to me... just awfully recorded loose jamming with no point or focus and weak and boring writing... except "Seven Days", which sounded brilliant, and I was like 'wow, that Wood guy can actually write some damn good tunes'. Then I picked up the sleeve and discovered "Dylan"....'Hmm...Of course'... NECK was my first Wood album, and it probably left such a bad picture of his song-writing capacities that I have never recovered from that, and I have always had difficulties to take him seriously in that department. That said, his first two solo albums are fine albums, and there are some okayish songs here and there, especially during his Faces era.
It was interesting years later to hear that 'original' Dylan live version from 1976. But to me Ronnie's version is the 'real' version for me. A very good version in that Dylan anniversary show from the early 90's, too.
By the way, I recall reading one story in which "Seven Days" was first offered to Clapton to record, but after Slowhand had said no, Bob gave it to Ronnie (they were in a same room, if memory serves).
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 01:34 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:42
Quote
HairballQuote
Doxa
Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance
Seven Days was written by Bob Dylan.
A live version recorded in 1976 appeared on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1–3 (Rare & Unreleased) 1961–1991.
Ronnies studio version was released in 1979.
Seven Days
“[Dylan] was writing a song at the time called ‘Seven Days,’” Wood recalled. “I know he liked me because, out of the blue he just gave it to me.
He said, ‘You can have this one, Woody.’” That song stands out on the record as a true tour de force, a rollicking and rambling road ode that almost feels like Wood is channeling Dylan throughout.
__________________________________________________
IMO you're channeling Bob Dylan throughout when you're part of his band and -on the the spot- translate on the guitar what Dylan is talking about.
[vimeo.com]
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:47
JAGGER: How old are you, Melissa?
BLOCK: I'm 50.
JAGGER: Oh, it's a nice age.
BLOCK: It's a round number.
JAGGER: It's a very nice age.
*It's kismet.
BLOCK: I'm 50.
JAGGER: Oh, it's a nice age.
BLOCK: It's a round number.
JAGGER: It's a very nice age.
*It's kismet.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 4, 2017 01:48
Quote
DoxaQuote
HairballQuote
Doxa
Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance
Seven Days was written by Bob Dylan.
A live version recorded in 1976 appeared on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1–3 (Rare & Unreleased) 1961–1991.
Ronnies studio version was released in 1979.
Seven Days
“[Dylan] was writing a song at the time called ‘Seven Days,’” Wood recalled. “I know he liked me because, out of the blue he just gave it to me.
He said, ‘You can have this one, Woody.’” That song stands out on the record as a true tour de force, a rollicking and rambling road ode that almost feels like Wood is channeling Dylan throughout.
__________________________________________________
Hardly a million miles away from "Memos" brilliance IMO - in fact it's more likely a million times better.
Haha.. I still recall listening for the first time Ronnie's GIMME SOME NECK album.. None of the songs made any sense to me... just awfully recorded loose jamming with no point or focus and weak and boring writing... except "Seven Days", which sounded brilliant, and I was like 'wow, that Wood guy can actually write some damn good tunes'. Then I picked up the sleeve and discovered "Dylan"....'Hmm...Of course'... NECK was my first Wood album, and it probably left such a bad picture of his song-writing capacities that I have never recovered from that, and I have always had difficulties to take him seriously in that department. That said, his first two solo albums are fine albums, and there are some okayish songs here and there, especially during his Faces era.
It was interesting years later to hear that 'original' Dylan live version from 1976. But to me Ronnie's version is the 'real' version for me. A very good version in that Dylan anniversary show from the early 90's, too.
By the way, I recall reading one story in which "Seven Days" was first offered to Clapton to record, but after Slowhand had said no, Bob gave it to Ronnie (they were in a same room, if memory serves).
- Doxa
I never knew Clapton turned it down, but the fact he was in the same room is written clearly in the link I provided directly above the Ronnie quote I posted:
"In his memoir, Ronnie, Wood tells a story of hanging out one night in 1975, in the studio with Eric Clapton, who was working on his album No Reason to Cry. Bob Dylan was also taking part in the sessions, which took place not far from his home in Zuma Beach, Calif".
Apologies if I was confused, but your original post made it sound like you thought Ronnie had written Seven Days:
You said:
"when I am thinking Jagger's solo stuff I always forget that one (Memo)... Comes like from a different planet..
compared to any solo Stones song (Ronnie's "Seven Days" comes second, but still million miles from "Memo"'s brilliance)"-Doxa.
Hence the confusion, but evidently you knew it was Dylan all along...
Anyhow, I agree Ronnies original studio cover is the real deal for me as well - in fact when it was released and played on the radio, I swore it was a Dylan song with Dylan singing it until I bought Ronnies album. It's been said that Ronnies vocals sound like Dylan, and it's never been more clear than on Seven Days - it fooled me! Also the Dylan anniversary version is great - I remember watching that telecast live, and Ronnie was one of the many highlights.
Studio version:
Ron Wood - Seven Days
Live Dylan 30th anniversary:
Ronnie Wood - Seven Days LIVE
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 07:19 by Hairball.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: July 4, 2017 02:38
Quote
wonderboy
Keith says their arguments were always about music, but I agree with the idea that there was rivalry between them so they fought about music.
My impression is that Mick wants to get his way all the time, whereas Keith is often quite compliant and just showed and did what he was told. So long as the rhythm section stuck with him when they were playing he was fine.
Keith is quite insecure at times -- notice the comment that he was a bit awed that a cultured man like Robert Fraser was taking notice of a 'guitar player from Dartford.'
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 4, 2017 07:06
It's been hypothesized that there may be an infinite number of universes (e.g., The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, among others). If this is so--and for what it's worth, I believe it to be so--there are most likely about 7, possibly 8 of those infinite universes in which the pedestrian "Seven Days" is regarded as a greater artistic achievement than "Memo from Turner."
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 4, 2017 07:23
Quote
LongBeachArena72
It's been hypothesized that there may be an infinite number of universes (e.g., The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, among others). If this is so--and for what it's worth, I believe it to be so--there are most likely about 7, possibly 8 of those infinite universes in which the pedestrian "Seven Days" is regarded as a greater artistic achievement than "Memo from Turner."
Lol - I must be in one of those 7 or 8 then, but to be clear (which I wasn't before) I was referring specifically to Dylan's lyrics vs. Mick's, but I understand even that might not fly with some people.
______________________________________________________________
Seven days, seven more days she’ll be comin’
I’ll be waiting at the station for her to arrive
Seven more days, all I gotta do is survive
She been gone ever since I been a child
Ever since I seen her smile, I ain’t forgotten her eyes
She had a face that could outshine the sun in the skies
I been good, I been good while I been waitin’
Maybe guilty of hesitatin’, I just been holdin’ on
Seven more days, all that’ll be gone
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Seven days, seven more days that are connected
Just like I expected, she’ll be comin’ on forth
My beautiful comrade from the north
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 07:28 by Hairball.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 4, 2017 07:33
Quote
HairballQuote
LongBeachArena72
It's been hypothesized that there may be an infinite number of universes (e.g., The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, among others). If this is so--and for what it's worth, I believe it to be so--there are most likely about 7, possibly 8 of those infinite universes in which the pedestrian "Seven Days" is regarded as a greater artistic achievement than "Memo from Turner."
Lol - I must be in one of those 7 or 8 then, but to be clear (which I wasn't before) I was referring specifically to Dylan's lyrics vs. Mick's, but I understand even that might not fly with some people.
I don't know, man.
This:
Seven days, seven more days she’ll be comin’
I’ll be waiting at the station for her to arrive
Seven more days, all I gotta do is survive
She been gone ever since I been a child
Ever since I seen her smile, I ain’t forgotten her eyes
She had a face that could outshine the sun in the skies
I been good, I been good while I been waitin’
Maybe guilty of hesitatin’, I just been holdin’ on
Seven more days, all that’ll be gone
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Seven days, seven more days that are connected
Just like I expected, she’ll be comin’ on forth
My beautiful comrade from the north
There’s kissing in the valley
Thieving in the alley
Fighting every inch of the way
Trying to be tender
With somebody I remember
In a night that’s always brighter’n the day
Sounds pretty throwaway when compared to this:
Didn't I see you down in San Antone
On a hot and dusty night?
We were eating eggs in Sammy's
When the black man there drew his knife
Aw, you drowned that Jew in Rampton
As he washed his sleeveless shirt
You know, that Spanish-speaking gentlemen
The one we all called Kurt
Come now, gentleman
I know there's some mistake
How forgetful I'm becoming
Now you fixed your business straight
I remember you in Hemlock Road
In nineteen fifty-six
You're a faggy little leather boy
With a smaller piece of stick
You're a lashing, smashing hunk of man
Your sweat shines sweet and strong
Your organs working perfectly
But there's a part that's not screwed on
Weren't you at the Coke convention
Back in nineteen sixty-five
You're the misbred, gray executive
I've seen heavily advertised
You're the great, gray man whose daughter licks
Policemen's buttons clean
You're the man who squats behind the man
Who works the soft machine
Come now, gentleman
Your love is all I crave
You'll still be in the circus when I'm laughing
Laughing in my grave
When the old men do the fighting
And the young men all look on
And the young girls eat their mothers meat
From tubes of plasticon
Be wary of these my gentle friends
Of all the skins you breed
They have a tasty habit
They eat the hands that bleed
So remember who you say you are
And keep your noses clean
Boys will be boys and play with toys
So be strong with your beast
Oh Rosie dear, don'tcha think it's queer
So stop me if you please
The baby's dead, my lady said
"You gentlemen, why you all work for me?"
I think "Memo" is in the great tradition of songs like "Play With Fire" and "Mother's Little Helper," in which Jagger positively skewers English middle-class mores. I've never been able to locate the quote online, alas, but way back in the day Norman Mailer, when asked about The Stones, replied that he didn't care for their music but that Mick Jagger would have made a helluva novelist.
Come to think of it, having listened to "Turner" a couple of times, I don't think I ever forgave Mick Jagger for not being Turner. Instead, he became just a rock star who went on and on and on and on and on ...
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 4, 2017 07:59
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
HairballQuote
LongBeachArena72
It's been hypothesized that there may be an infinite number of universes (e.g., The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, among others). If this is so--and for what it's worth, I believe it to be so--there are most likely about 7, possibly 8 of those infinite universes in which the pedestrian "Seven Days" is regarded as a greater artistic achievement than "Memo from Turner."
Lol - I must be in one of those 7 or 8 then, but to be clear (which I wasn't before) I was referring specifically to Dylan's lyrics vs. Mick's, but I understand even that might not fly with some people.
I don't know, man.
I think "Memo" is in the great tradition of songs like "Play With Fire" and "Mother's Little Helper," in which Jagger positively skewers English middle-class mores. I've never been able to locate the quote online, alas, but way back in the day Norman Mailer, when asked about The Stones, replied that he didn't care for their music but that Mick Jagger would have made a helluva novelist.
Come to think of it, having listened to "Turner" a couple of times, I don't think I ever forgave Mick Jagger for not being Turner. Instead, he became just a rock star who went on and on and on and on and on ...
I hear you LongBeach, but something about Seven Days hit's me stronger, and after listening to the above videos I edited in a couple posts above - followed by a listen to Memo - I'd have to pick Seven Days both lyrically AND musically if I was on a desert island and could only pick one. I was 16 when Seven Days hit the airwaves vs Memo which was never on my radar until it was released well after the fact on Metamorphosis (which I didn't even own until I was probably 16 also). In that context Seven Days has more meaning for me as it was fresh and new at the time vs. the "oddball" Memo relegated to Metamorphosis. Anyhow, difficult to judge objectively when something is so close to your heart, and in this case Seven Days edges Memo out for me. Perhaps if I had never heard either song and didn't know it was Jagger vs. Dylan (erasing all of the context of each), and then compared the lyrics side by side, I might have a different opinion.
But - when you mention Play With Fire and Mothers Little Helper - no doubt those two rise far above both Memo and Seven Days no matter what the context - if not lyrically then definitely musically (but probably both).
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-04 08:05 by Hairball.
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