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2000 LYFH

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firebird

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Rockman
...aawww leave him be ... after all they pump nitro in dragsters don't they

Yes they are all doped, but as long as it is not allowed he (and all others as well) shouldn't be able to keep his titles. Don't forget he made over a hundert million dollars marketing this titles.

Does he have to return the money (with interest)?

Don't know. I would expect he has to pay back the price money (around one million per tour) but he made most of his money by marketing and i think as long as none of his former sponsors sues him he may keep that money.

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2000 LYFH

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firebird

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Rockman
...aawww leave him be ... after all they pump nitro in dragsters don't they

Yes they are all doped, but as long as it is not allowed he (and all others as well) shouldn't be able to keep his titles. Don't forget he made over a hundert million dollars marketing this titles.

Does he have to return the money (with interest)?

Yes, give it to Greece - they deserve it.

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mtaylor

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2000 LYFH

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firebird

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Rockman
...aawww leave him be ... after all they pump nitro in dragsters don't they

Yes they are all doped, but as long as it is not allowed he (and all others as well) shouldn't be able to keep his titles. Don't forget he made over a hundert million dollars marketing this titles.

Does he have to return the money (with interest)?

Yes, give it to Greece - they deserve it.

We all deserve it. I say put it in a bottle a float it out the Gulf of Mexico.
Whoever finds it can give it to Greece...

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2000 LYFH

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firebird

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Rockman
...aawww leave him be ... after all they pump nitro in dragsters don't they

Yes they are all doped, but as long as it is not allowed he (and all others as well) shouldn't be able to keep his titles. Don't forget he made over a hundert million dollars marketing this titles.

Does he have to return the money (with interest)?

I got to thinking along those lines when I heard about this earlier. I can understand removing someone (or a team) from the record books. Returning prize money? At what interest rate? Do they send collection letters? Are they going to put a lein on his estate? What about the trophies? Will people from every race he ever won be showing up asking for the trophies back? Do they then deliver these tropies to the second place finisher?

I've heard about rules violators having their names removed from the record books for years. Heck it's almost common to hear the stories come out. For some reason I've never thought about the prize money or the physical trophies before today. Although I figure there will be plenty of sarcastic and probably funny ideas, does anyone have any actual knowledge on this side of the subject? Chris, have you ever interviewed someone with this in their history who has possibly given you some insight?

Closest I can think of in music is Milli Vanilli (or whomever they were). If I remember correctly, I think they had a press conference where they did give back the actual statues. I wonder what happened to the statues from there or if the 2nd place finisher was eventually given a statue.

Edit -> May have just found the answer to my own question re: Milli Vanilli's Grammy @ wikipedia. Checking a page regarding the Best New Artist award I found a note: "Milli Vanilli were originally presented with the award, but were later stripped of it. Originally, the runner-up was to be awarded, but since no one wanted it, a new winner was not announced." May not be 100% accurate but it does sound fairly plausible so I'll buy it for a dollar.

Peace,
Mr DJA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-24 16:54 by mr_dja.

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Munichhilton
I'm glad he stopped fighting. They've come at him a thousand times and would've done it a hundred more. I don't give a rats ass about bike sports...gave that up at 10 years old...but damn. how long can you sing the same song over and over and over and over...[sorry mick]


good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc.
I don't give a rat's ass about cycling. But the French will be spinning its wheels forever and so far, no physical evidence has been presented. Just hear-say from former, defeated opponents.
Time to let it go.

I do not like cheaters, but something about this smells. Blood tests from '09 & '10? Testimony of others? Why now?

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
I'm glad he stopped fighting. They've come at him a thousand times and would've done it a hundred more. I don't give a rats ass about bike sports...gave that up at 10 years old...but damn. how long can you sing the same song over and over and over and over...[sorry mick]


good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc.
I don't give a rat's ass about cycling. But the French will be spinning its wheels forever and so far, no physical evidence has been presented. Just hear-say from former, defeated opponents.
Time to let it go.

See...we need a stupidguy2 to state the obvious...why cant they understand this nonsense stupidguy2?
You and I do...and like you said....its bike riding for crying out loud.

OPED:
How many cancer victims are able to ride a bike today because of this guys huge dedication...

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Munichhilton

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gimmelittledrink
The fact that he won't contest the charges is proof enough for me that he's guilty. He saw the handrwiting on the wall and it wasn't pretty. Better to bow out now and blame the process than to go through arbitration and be found guilty. It's the equivalent of a no-contest plea, which means he's guilty.

To be clear, he has contested the charges for 10-15 years...that's not bowing out.
He's never been found guilty...if he beat this one they would take another run at him in a few years...I understand why he's done with it. But again...it's bike riding. We can't take it THAT seriously...

From CNN [edition.cnn.com]


(CNN) -- Famed cyclist Lance Armstrong faces the prospect of losing seven Tour de France titles and his fabled championship legacy after he ended his fight against charges of illegal doping.

Armstrong, who has consistently denied allegations of illegal doping, made his announcement to stop battling the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency's "one-sided and unfair process" move against him after losing a legal bid Monday to stop the probe.

The cyclist's decision prompted the anti-doping agency to say it will slap a lifetime ban on Armstrong and strip him of his wins since 1998 after deciding not to contest the charges.

But there's a question whether the USADA has authority in the case and whether international agencies might have to weigh in before Armstrong would face the prospect of losing his titles.

The International Cycling Union has opposed the anti-doping actions by claiming it has jurisdiction. That position has been recently backed by USA Cycling, the official cycling organization recognized by the U.S. Olympic Committee. The cycling union said Friday it won't comment until the anti-doping group issues "a reasoned decision" explaining its stance.

Armstrong has said the cycling union and not the USADA should conduct the arbitration in his case.

"If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA's process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and -- once and for all -- put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance," Armstrong said in a statement Thursday. "I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair."


Armstrong has been dogged by doping allegations in recent years, with compatriot Floyd Landis -- who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after failing a drug test -- making a series of claims last year.

After the Monday court ruling, Armstrong said "enough is enough" in the face of his battle with the USADA and its CEO, Travis T. Tygart, whose investigation he describes as a farce. The USADA is the official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sports in the United States.

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today -- finished with this nonsense," Armstrong said.

[edition.cnn.com]
============================================================

I say if they have evidence bring it on... if not, then drop it...

This sounds more like a (another) case of "some nobody" who is jealous (or maybe someone who felt slighted by Lance) wanting to (trying to) make a name for themself riding the coattails of these long long long time accusations.. They turned it in to dirty laundry accusing politics.

They either have evidence or not... There is no question.
They have tossed many a rider when they had the proof... this makes no sense.

They had evidence on dumbass Floyd Landis and that was that...
Why didnt they do the EXACT same thing to Lance, if they had proof?

And this has nothing to do with him being an American... I will defend anyone who does well and then attracts people who want to bash on them for no good reason.... Last week (and other times) I was shouting down an idiot who was saying(blabbing) that "it is obvious that Usain Bolt is dirty based soley on the fact that "he is too fast""... FK THAT LOGIC!! I let that ahole have it with both barrels.

Sometimes people are just jealous and/or people love tearing down those who have actually done something, and done it very well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 04:52 by Max'sKansasCity.

ok then Max, so if he's innocent, he should have gone to trial.
you and some others claim there is no evidence at all ?
then, no hesitation, I would go to the court and in the world's face I would be recognized "clean" and a great champion.
Now, you should think of why he didn't do it. Probably because there were too many testimonials against him and he knew he had no chance.
I don't believe that all these "bad" witnesses wanted to absolutely tear him down just by jealousy. It's not enough to put someone down in front of a court.

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jpasc95
ok then Max, so if he's innocent, he should have gone to trial.
you and some others claim there is no evidence at all ?
then, no hesitation, I would go to the court and in the world's face I would be recognized "clean" and a great champion.
Now, you should think of why he didn't do it. Probably because there were too many testimonials against him and he knew he had no chance.
I don't believe that all these "bad" witnesses wanted to absolutely tear him down just by jealousy. It's not enough to put someone down in front of a court.

I NEVER claimed "there is no evidence at all".....
I said if there is evidnce then bring it out.... if not then drop it.

Facts be known, NONE of us here know anything about this... for all we know they could fake the evidence and call it real and none of us would the difference. I am surprised they have not done this already.

I dont know if there is evidence or not... I just am surprised that so many people seem to hate him so much and hate that he did so well in the sport and now they want him to fall... as if that will make these people feel better about themselves?... that is sad.


When have THEY ever used only testimonials to do this before?
Did they need/use them against Landis or Contador? No, they did not.

There is no argument... there is evidence or not.... Fuk testimoinials from a bunch of jealous pukes... human history is strewn with witch hunts, rigged jurys and bogus inquisitions... BWARE!!! If you piss off the wrong people and they will come for you.... apparently Lance pissed off someone ( some people) and they still hold a grudge.

If they had evidence ...bring it out... if not ....drop it.



AGAIN

Armstrong has said the cycling union and not the USADA should conduct the arbitration in his case.

"If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA's process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and -- once and for all -- put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance," Armstrong said in a statement Thursday. "I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 07:39 by Max'sKansasCity.

to me, his attitude is some kind of confession.
when you're certain to be innocent, you can't refuse a trial.
He refused it arguing that it will be unfair etc etc etc...that's really clumsy !

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jpasc95
to me, his attitude is some kind of confession.
when you're certain to be innocent, you can't refuse a trial.
He refused it arguing that it will be unfair etc etc etc...that's really clumsy !

Then there is probably nothing he could ever say, or do, that will make you like him. Such is life.


PS
""his attitude"" ... really?
I have been accused of the same thing, many times.
They said my attitude did not properly conform and that I must be a bad person or guilty of something.... and you know what? I didnt/dont give a fk what THEY think... I just keep doing my thing. It is hard to beat a rigged system... and so many thing are rigged down here... it is disgusting.

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jpasc95
to me, his attitude is some kind of confession.
when you're certain to be innocent, you can't refuse a trial.
He refused it arguing that it will be unfair etc etc etc...that's really clumsy !

Another cheater finally cornered

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No Expectations


Another cheater finally cornered

MwuuhuhuhaHAHAAHA YES!!!! YES!!!!!... FINALLY CORNERED!!!!


NOW WHO SHOULD THEY GO AFTER NEXT!!!!!
WITCH!!! WITCH!!!! WITCH!!!
SHE MUST BE GUILTY... THE TESTIMONY SAYS SO!!!
NOT TO MENTION HER ATTITUDE!!!
BURN HER!!! BURN HER!!! BUREN HER!!!! BURN HER!!!



The way things are....
Human history is strewn with witch hunts, rigged jurys and bogus inquisitions..
BEWARE If you piss off the wrong people... they will come for you... BEWARE!!

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Max'sKansasCity
This sounds more like a (another) case of "some nobody" who is jealous

I don't know about that Max. Fact is though that during the Tour de France came out that three of his former teammates have been accused of using doping as well. They were promised some sort of immunity and a very mild punishment by USADA if they pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against Lance Armstrong. Same offer was made to his former teamleader who was accused of involvement. Makes you wonder how trustworthy their testimonials will be.

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Keep On Rolling

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Max'sKansasCity
""his attitude"" ... really?

I didnt/dont give a fk what THEY think... I just keep doing my thing.

I like your "attitude" Cheers

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Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie

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Max'sKansasCity
This sounds more like a (another) case of "some nobody" who is jealous

I don't know about that Max. Fact is though that during the Tour de France came out that three of his former teammates have been accused of using doping as well. They were promised some sort of immunity and a very mild punishment by USADA if they pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against Lance Armstrong. Same offer was made to his former teamleader who was accused of involvement. Makes you wonder how trustworthy their testimonials will be.

Thank you (again) Hans, as I said before, I defer to you on a lot of this stuff, you more than I... and I very much appreciate your unbiased input.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 12:25 by Max'sKansasCity.

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Rolling Hansie

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Max'sKansasCity
""his attitude"" ... really?

I didnt/dont give a fk what THEY think... I just keep doing my thing.

I like your "attitude" Cheers

Thanks Hans, Cheers.

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Munichhilton

OPED:
How many cancer victims are able to ride a bike today because of this guys huge dedication...

this, my friend, is a pretty good point !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 12:38 by falo01.

Picture in my local newspaper today.
They made a list of the nrs 1 to 10 of the years that Armstrong won the Tour.
All those with a red cross are suspicious, because they all had something to do with doping in their careers.
So, if Armstrong looses his victories there will be some very surprising winners.


© Limburgs Dagblad

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Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie
Picture in my local newspaper today.
They made a list of the nrs 1 to 10 of the years that Armstrong won the Tour.
All those with a red cross are suspicious, because they all had something to do with doping in their careers.
So, if Armstrong looses his victories there will be some very surprising winners.


© Limburgs Dagblad

:(
Ya know, there may be something to be said for keeping ones problems in private. Is The Tour best served by all of this? Does this make people more excited to watch the next Tour? Does this make a lot of people very happy? Does it really help anything by the sport itself outting all of these riders for using something?.... is all of this best for the sport?

I dont know... but it is interesting.

I do know that in the past I have talked about, and called BS on, a league (or two) for protecting it's own best interests when I knew there was some BS going on.... I knew they were sweeping some sht under the carpet to protect the league... and I thought it sucked.... but now... looking at this... and reconsidering it all.... maybe they knew what they were doing or maybe they were full of crap ... who knows? who is worthy to judge them?

All I know is that picture full all of those red Xs over famous names is not pretty.... and in the reality of Armstrong being accused, while never failing a test.... who can say for sure to say that ALL of those riders dont deserve an X??... Hell maybe The Tour itself should have an X over it... MAYBE THE WHOLE A SPORT!!!! WHERE DOES IT STOP!!?


BTW- As of this morning... the people who actually have the authority to strip away Armstrong's wins has not done so yet.

Again if there is evidemce bring it on...
if not, they should let it go.... for the sake of the sport.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 15:59 by Max'sKansasCity.

Hang in there Max, you are too impassioned...its just Bike Riding....say it aloud.

Bike riding...the only thing missing from those photos and X's are juice boxes...

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Munichhilton
Hang in there Max, you are too impassioned...its just Bike Riding....say it aloud.

Bike riding...the only thing missing from those photos and X's are juice boxes...

Nah... I am not really that impassioned... dont read too much into it





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 16:03 by Max'sKansasCity.

Reading is all you can do here though...

What about juice boxes? I'm impassioned about those...you?

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Munichhilton
Reading is all you can do here though...

What about juice boxes? I'm impassioned about those...you?

DONT GET ME STARTED ON JUICE BOXES!!!

hehehehe

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Max'sKansasCity
All I know is that picture full all of those red Xs over famous names is not pretty.... and in the reality of Armstrong being accused, while never failing a test.... who can say for sure to say that ALL of those riders dont deserve an X??

Correct Max. That's why I posted it. We simply don't know.

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Keep On Rolling

"...the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency punished Armstrong with a lifetime ban from professional cycling and erased 14 years of his career after concluding he used performance-enhancing druugs..."

The woman (not verbatim I think) said "Just because you haven't failed a drug test doesn't mean you weren't cheating." So just like that they can decide? Without any proof? Why it's almost like...the US Government.

[abcnews.go.com]

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues
"...the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency punished Armstrong with a lifetime ban from professional cycling and erased 14 years of his career after concluding he used performance-enhancing druugs..."

The woman (not verbatim I think) said "Just because you haven't failed a drug test doesn't mean you weren't cheating." So just like that they can decide? Without any proof? Why it's almost like...the US Government.

[abcnews.go.com]

And just like them, they are doing things they dont really have the authority to do... what a monsterous crock of shit.... AND doing this type of relativley meaningles shit... while there are SO MANY MANY MANY MANY other REAL things which are actually worthy of attention!! and these morons are spending time trying to persecute Lance Armstrong and/or Roger Clemons?! what about the real stuff going on in this fkd up world? Like... ah I am not going to open that can of worms.... but there is a lot more important things to do than try to persecute people who play games for a living.


WTF is wrong with the PIC? (people in charge)!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-25 17:47 by Max'sKansasCity.

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
...good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc....

I have no idea whether Lance is guilty but IF he is then he's a cheat regardless of any good work he's done. Besides IF he is a cheat then arguably the cheating put him in a position to be charitable and inspirational.

Armstrong not defending the steroid charges is a good public relations move for him personally. Armstrong as a brand is bigger than the Tour de France..in fact one could argue he was the Tour de France...but arguments aside...he has built a Lance Armstrong Strong brand and going to court for years with drip, drip, drip testimony that he used, or tested positive...over and over... etc would do more harm than just sweeping it all away in one grand gesture...his handlers know what they are doing...in the US where his brand does most of its business it was the best thing for him to do...so far...and probably in the long run...the advertisers aren't bailing the way they do with other damaged athletes.