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Rolling Hansie
So many allegations in so many years by so many people and organisations ... and still no proof of anything illegal

you should read this review from Wikipedia and you'll undertsand the behaviour of the Texan rider, the way he avoided to explain himself in 1999 while he was tested positive
I also suspect the ICU to protect him.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Aside from his amazing talent and intensive competitive attitude,
Armstrong got over confident knowing how important he had become
for cycling. He was the one that turned the US on into this sport.
Phil Liggett loved him in ways that even attempted against his
imparciallity on commenting the Tour. But it was Armstrong the one
that was bringing all time high ratings to the Tour and making lots
of money for Ligget's World Cycling Production, the Tour and other Cycling
related business.
So he was a money machine and he knew it. And that gave him the confidence
to feel untouchable and above anyone in the sport, including the UCI and
dopping controls. You mess with him...you hurt the business of cycling.
He just felt so superior in every aspect...and that just goes again the
beauty of this sport.

A sports journalist referred to Armstrong as a "cancer in cycling".

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jpasc95
I also suspect the ICU to protect him.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Nothing new to me in that article, and no proof of anything illegal, unless I missed something. Maybe you can quote where in the article is proof for Armstrong doing something illegal.
And of course you are free to suspect whatever you want. But suspicion is no proof.

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Keep On Rolling

I'm afraid you don't really want to read and hear all the facts and you are free to admire LA as much as you want.

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jpasc95
I'm afraid you don't really want to read and hear all the facts and you are free to admire LA as much as you want.

I absolutely want to read all the facts of Armstrong doing something illegal. Please feel free to provide me with those facts, because I haven't seen them yet.
And another note, I have been watching and following Tour de France ever since I was a little kid, more than 50 years ago. So I much more liked the Tour de France in the old days. So you can imagine that I am not a fan of Lance Armstrong at all. But that doesn't mean that I am going to condemn him until he is proven guilty.
And until now, there is no proof.
I asked it before and I will ask it again: Maybe you can quote where in the article is proof for Armstrong doing something illegal.

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Keep On Rolling

LA's carreer was so perfect. Hollywood could not had written a better
script. He made big fans and builded great dreams. It's not easy to
switch the head of millions into reality.

At the end this has to be for good. A continous effort to clean sports.
It can not end on just L.A. guilty. Wish he would accept this and put the
same energy on a fight against dopping. I would admire him for that...but
at some point is going to be too late.

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rolling hansie

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jpasc95
I'm afraid you don't really want to read and hear all the facts and you are free to admire LA as much as you want.

I absolutely want to read all the facts of Armstrong doing something illegal. Please feel free to provide me with those facts, because I haven't seen them yet.
And another note, I have been watching and following Tour de France ever since I was a little kid, more than 50 years ago. So I much more liked the Tour de France in the old days. So you can imagine that I am not a fan of Lance Armstrong at all. But that doesn't mean that I am going to condemn him until he is proven guilty.
And until now, there is no proof.
I asked it before and I will ask it again: Maybe you can quote where in the article is proof for Armstrong doing something illegal.

You seem not to know that many people who kept close to LA have declared that he himself confessed having used illegal drugs. I think of Emma O'Reill and Mike Anderson.
You can also refer to journalists Pierre Ballester and David Walsh who wrote 3 books about LA (L.A. Confidentiel, L.A. Officiel, Le sale tour) relating testimonies of people close to LA. : Stephen Swart, Frankie Andreu and LA accepted to apply a doping program because of the bad results of Motorola Team in 1994.
What about Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton who all of them claimed that LA used EPO for sure ?
Are all those people liars ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-11 17:03 by jpasc95.

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jpasc95
You seem not to know that many people who kept close to LA have declared .....
Are all those people liars ?

Wrong assumption, of course I know those stories. Haven't you read that I posted that I have been watching and following Tour de France ever since I was a little kid, more than 50 years ago ?
And I am not calling all these people liars, simply because I don't know if their stories are true, do you know for sure ?
But I am not looking for stories of people who say that they heard etc. etc.
But maybe we can keep it simple.
Do you have proof that Lance Armstrong used illegal substances ?
If so, you can become very rich by publishing your story, and I will gladly help you with writing, only for a small percentage of the profit.
But I am affraid that I won't make any money, simply because there is no proof.

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Keep On Rolling

of course I don't have in my possession what you're asking me.
It's not me you should ask for evidence but to people I gave the names ok ?
so, we're trusting you to find the truth cos I'm sure that you're fond of that, aren't you !!

Well, if you don't have any proof, then why don't you stop your allegations ?
And of course it is not up to me to ask all those people.
And you can trust whatever you want, I am in no position to find out what really happened, nor do I intend to.
I was asking you, because you were so convinced of Armstrong being guilty.
All I did was asking you for proof, and you can't deliver.

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Keep On Rolling

it's not my allegations but allegations of people who know LA well.
I trust them because I don't see why they would lie.
You refuse to listen to them, it's your problem !

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jpasc95
it's your problem !

I don't have a problem with Lance Armstrong

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Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie

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jpasc95
it's your problem !

I don't have a problem with Lance Armstrong

You also better don't Hansie!

Look the guy never, NEVER failed a drug test.

That is a fact.

You can't change that.

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1cdog
Look the guy never, NEVER failed a drug test.

He didn't fail drug tests in 1999 (though he was loaded on EPO) because... at that time EPO was undetectable (or more precisely no lab on Earth could tell if EPO found in samples was natural/body-made or external/exogen).

As soon as it was possible to tell one from the other (around 2003?) L.A.'s urine samples from 1999 were defrozen and... BINGO!

And overall in modern sport what separates the pros from the guys who get caught is not really the doping products but the masking substances you have to take to pass the tests.
Obviously Armstrong was well trained in that field. "Gracias" is the key word?

Quote
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: July 12, 2012 00:25

Quote
1cdog
Look the guy never, NEVER failed a drug test.

He didn't fail drug tests in 1999 (though he was loaded on EPO) because... at that time EPO was undetectable (or more precisely no lab on Earth could tell if EPO found in samples was natural/body-made or external/exogen).

As soon as it was possible to tell one from the other (around 2003?) L.A.'s urine samples from 1999 were defrozen and... BINGO!

And overall in modern sport what separates the pros from the guys who get caught is not really the doping products but the masking substances you have to take to pass the tests.
Obviously Armstrong was well trained in that field. "Gracias" is the key word?

Correcto.

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dcba

Quote
1cdog
Look the guy never, NEVER failed a drug test.

He didn't fail drug tests in 1999 (though he was loaded on EPO) because... at that time EPO was undetectable (or more precisely no lab on Earth could tell if EPO found in samples was natural/body-made or external/exogen).

As soon as it was possible to tell one from the other (around 2003?) L.A.'s urine samples from 1999 were defrozen and... BINGO!

And overall in modern sport what separates the pros from the guys who get caught is not really the doping products but the masking substances you have to take to pass the tests.
Obviously Armstrong was well trained in that field. "Gracias" is the key word?

From Wikipedia :
"Lance Armstrong a été contrôlé positif aux corticoïdes le 4 juillet 1999, à l'issue de la première étape du Tour de France. Ce résultat est révélé par la presse lors de la journée de repos du Tour le 19 juillet. Le 22 juillet, l'Union cycliste internationale annonce qu'Armstrong bénéficie d'une ordonnance médicale pour l'utilisation de Cémalyt afin de soigner une allergie dermatologique (douleurs à la selle). Cela entre cependant en contradiction avec les propos de Lance Armstrong, affirmant précédemment qu'il n'avait pas utilisé de corticoïdes et qu'il ne disposait pas de certificat médical lui permettant d'en utiliser. De plus, le procès verbal du contrôle antidopage indique « néant » dans la colonne « Médicaments pris ». En outre, si Armstrong avait utilisé de la Cémalyt sur le Tour, son équipe aurait dû en faire une demande d'autorisation d'importation auprès de l'Agence française de sécurité sanitaire des aliments. Cela n'a pas été le cas d'après celle-ci. Ces éléments tendent à indiquer qu'un certificat médical antidaté a été fourni a posteriori. Cette version est confirmée par Emma O'Reilly, soigneuse d'Armstrong au sein de l'équipe US Postal. Armstrong lui a alors dit avoir « pris un corticoïde avant ou pendant la Route du Sud, le mois précédent ». L'encadrement de l'équipe, informé du contrôle positif, a fait appel au médecin de l'équipe Luis del Moral afin qu'il établisse une ordonnance."

It shows how LA is the boss in the art of cheating !

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]

Yes, he 'never failed a drug test'. He has said this over and over and over.

And I think this response will come back to haunt him. While it is technically correct, it begs the question as to 'why'?

Why did he never fail any tests when there are several eye-witness accounts of him doping? I think we'll learn that LA & Co. had their own system of 'blood doping' that was able to go undetected. They basically found a way to beat the system.

I was a LA fan for years and I do not like all the tabloid trash talk.

But if he cheated, I want to know.

As I posted before, there is no point in supporting a fake legacy.

Lance Armstrong drops fight against doping charges...

[www.guardian.co.uk]

Armstrong Drops Fight Against Doping Charges


Christophe Ena/Associated Press
Lance Armstrong before the start of the third stage of the Tour de France in Wanze, Belgium, in 2010.

By JULIET MACUR
Published: August 23, 2012

After more than a decade of outrunning accusations that he had doped during his celebrated cycling career, Lance Armstrong, one of the best-known and accomplished athletes in recent history, surrendered on Thursday, etching a dark mark on his legacy by ending his fight against charges that he used performance-enhancing drugs.

Armstrong, who won the Tour de France an unprecedented seven straight times, said Thursday that he would not continue to fight the charges levied against him by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which contended that he doped and was one of the ringleaders of systematic doping on his Tour-winning teams.

“There comes a point in every man’s life when he has to say, ‘Enough is enough,’ ” Armstrong said in a statement.

“The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense.”

His decision means he will almost certainly be stripped of his seven Tour titles, the bronze medal he won at the 2000 Olympics and all other titles, awards and money he won from August 1998 on.

It also means he will be barred for life from competing, coaching or having any official role with any Olympic sport or other sport that follows the World Anti-Doping Code.

Such an implosion of an athletic career has been common in cycling in recent years, as doping has crippled the sport. Several recent Tour de France champions have been found guilty of doping, including Floyd Landis and the two-time winner Alberto Contador. But none of them had the stature of Armstrong.

Although it is likely that the International Cycling Union, the world’s governing body for cycling, will appeal his suspension to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, Armstrong’s choice to accept his sanction tarnishes the athletic achievements of an athlete who inspired millions with his story of cancer survival.

Armstrong, a brash Texan who turns 41 next month, was already a world-champion cyclist when he was found to have testicular cancer in 1996, at 25. He had a razor-thin chance of survival, but pushed ahead to beat the disease.

[www.nytimes.com]

Why should he continue to fight a witch a hunt? A Russian election is fairer than this. Where were this these test results when he was riding? Everytime I think Major League Baseball might be dirty, I look at the the tour de farce and realize what an absolute joke it has become. Euoros will always be dirty.

Oh, I'm surprised they got through with their accusations against Lance Armstrong.
Too bad that now, most of his titles will now get picked up by another doped rider, Jan Ulrich.

In retrospect, it will be hard to find anyone who competed in the Tour de France in those years and did not cheat with the aid of certain substances.

I guess the situation remains the same today. Just look at the average speeds of the riders. Have they gone down?

There are tons of evidence of Lance's bad blood samples.

However, these are research prosjects the physicians agreed not release officially.

Therefore, Hansie is right when he says that we - the public - don't have access to hard evidence of Armstrong's doping.

I don't think ANYONE would be surprised if those samples surfaced and turned out to be positive, though.

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billwebster
In retrospect, it will be hard to find anyone who competed in the Tour de France in those years and did not cheat with the aid of certain substances.

Absolutely true. One of my old time childhood favourites Jacques Anquetil admitted many years ago in a documentary, that he had used doping. He even advised that for the occasional, recreational biker it was better not to use that stuff. But for the professional riders in the Tour de France, he said it was impossible to deliver such performances without using it.

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Keep On Rolling

The guy probably would rather invest all his energy in living than to fight these allegations and risk aggravating his cancer.

The evidence will be published:

[www.velonation.com]

While Lance probably took performing enhancement drugs he avoided detection. I always thought he was doping yet this was in a time in cycling when it appeared many riders did so to remain competitive. What I am suggesting is that this was a level playing field. Lance clearly was very good at what he did. His lung capacity was considered to be abnormally high. He was driven to succeed and following a nasty bout with testicular cancer came back to race at a very high level for a long period of time. He gave alot back as well with his foundations. He also created lots of interest in the sport of cycling. It is a pity his record will be tarnished, but I will always hold him in high regard for his accomplishments, and for appearing to be a good human being.

Quote
filstan
While Lance probably took performing enhancement drugs he avoided detection. I always thought he was doping yet this was in a time in cycling when it appeared many riders did so to remain competitive. What I am suggesting is that this was a level playing field. Lance clearly was very good at what he did. His lung capacity was considered to be abnormally high. He was driven to succeed and following a nasty bout with testicular cancer came back to race at a very high level for a long period of time. He gave alot back as well with his foundations. He also created lots of interest in the sport of cycling. It is a pity his record will be tarnished, but I will always hold him in high regard for his accomplishments, and for appearing to be a good human being.

I am still waiting for THEM to say when and where he failed the drug tests. Over the years I have read over and over where THEY reported many many others for failing tested and THEY gleefully went public with it and tossed those riders out.... but I never read where THEY said Lance Armstrong failed. Just a lot of haters and blah blahers blah blahing...

Today I read Lance say that he was done fighting about it.. and now so many seem to be taking such glee in it..... as if this is some kind of admitting he did it... He admittted nothing.

If he doped then tell the results... if not then shut the fk up.

ps
And the BS about give back the money? ... gimme a fkg break!




From CNN [edition.cnn.com]


(CNN) -- Famed cyclist Lance Armstrong faces the prospect of losing seven Tour de France titles and his fabled championship legacy after he ended his fight against charges of illegal doping.

Armstrong, who has consistently denied allegations of illegal doping, made his announcement to stop battling the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency's "one-sided and unfair process" move against him after losing a legal bid Monday to stop the probe.

The cyclist's decision prompted the anti-doping agency to say it will slap a lifetime ban on Armstrong and strip him of his wins since 1998 after deciding not to contest the charges.

But there's a question whether the USADA has authority in the case and whether international agencies might have to weigh in before Armstrong would face the prospect of losing his titles.

The International Cycling Union has opposed the anti-doping actions by claiming it has jurisdiction. That position has been recently backed by USA Cycling, the official cycling organization recognized by the U.S. Olympic Committee. The cycling union said Friday it won't comment until the anti-doping group issues "a reasoned decision" explaining its stance.

Armstrong has said the cycling union and not the USADA should conduct the arbitration in his case.

"If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA's process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and -- once and for all -- put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance," Armstrong said in a statement Thursday. "I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair."


Armstrong has been dogged by doping allegations in recent years, with compatriot Floyd Landis -- who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after failing a drug test -- making a series of claims last year.

After the Monday court ruling, Armstrong said "enough is enough" in the face of his battle with the USADA and its CEO, Travis T. Tygart, whose investigation he describes as a farce. The USADA is the official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sports in the United States.

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today -- finished with this nonsense," Armstrong said.

[edition.cnn.com]
============================================================

I say if they have evidence bring... if not drop it...

Sounds more like another case of "some nobody" wanting to, trying to make a name for themself riding the coattails of this BS... fkg politics...

They either have evidnence or not... what is the question?


They had evidence on dumbass Floyd Landis and that was that...
why not do that same thinbgs against Lance, if they have proof?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-24 18:45 by Max'sKansasCity.

He said he's done fighting it.

That means... what, he's simply going to ignore it? Step away from the sport entirely? Allow the drug tests to be released? It says many things or nothing.