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Braincapers

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
...good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc....

I have no idea whether Lance is guilty but IF he is then he's a cheat regardless of any good work he's done. Besides IF he is a cheat then arguably the cheating put him in a position to be charitable and inspirational.

You are bandying about the word "CHEAT" as if he was pulled along in a rickshaw, while someone else pedaled, while Lance sat in the back and drank martinis, exerting no effort... as he won 7 Tours in a row.

The man busted his ass. He wasnt pulled in a rickshaw.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
...good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc....

I have no idea whether Lance is guilty but IF he is then he's a cheat regardless of any good work he's done. Besides IF he is a cheat then arguably the cheating put him in a position to be charitable and inspirational.

You are bandying about the word "CHEAT" as if he was pulled along in a rickshaw, while someone else pedaled, while Lance sat in the back and drank martinis, exerting no effort... as he won 7 Tours in a row.

The man busted his ass. He wasnt pulled in a rickshaw.

It would be virtually impossible to keep your martini steady...thats proof enough

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Munichhilton

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
...good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc....

I have no idea whether Lance is guilty but IF he is then he's a cheat regardless of any good work he's done. Besides IF he is a cheat then arguably the cheating put him in a position to be charitable and inspirational.

You are bandying about the word "CHEAT" as if he was pulled along in a rickshaw, while someone else pedaled, while Lance sat in the back and drank martinis, exerting no effort... as he won 7 Tours in a row.

The man busted his ass. He wasnt pulled in a rickshaw.

It would be virtually impossible to keep your martini steady...thats proof enough

Well... that settles that.

...All of these “dopers” would have been great athletes & cycling heroes without the doping. On a slightly lower level, but still great.

Drugs did NOT make Armstrong a 7 time tour winner. You don’t give EPO to your local ride’s fast boy, & he suddenly becomes a European peloton star.



Happy to be here....Happy to be anywhere.....

[www.myspace.com]

[www.facebook.com]

Thursday, August 23, 2012
What to make of Lance Armstrong
By Darren Rovell
ESPN.com

Sports fans have surely been tested in recent years.

We've been shown that Tiger Woods wasn't the family man he was portrayed to be.

That, for all the good he did, Joe Paterno made some incredible mistakes.

And perhaps, as the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency believes, there is enough evidence to strip Lance Armstrong of his seven Tour De France titles, that the man whose contributions to human life went deeper than any athlete in history, didn't reach his fame in a fair manner.

We should be used to learning how to feel, how to judge our athletic role models when they let us down. But it's not easy.

And judging Lance Armstrong is more complex than any athlete we've ever had to judge.

Sure, we came to know him as the guy who nobody could beat on a bicycle, but his legacy has to be the lives he improved, the lives he saved.

We often use statistics to ask ourselves if a maligned athlete, particularly one who was found to have used performance-enhancing drugs, should deserve the praise we give them. But judging Lance Armstrong by any other statistic than that he has raised almost $500 million for the fight against cancer in the past 15 years just seems small. And even that doesn't strike at the heart of what Armstrong did.

While so many athletes love to show up at hospitals when the news cameras come along, Armstrong gave some pretty incredible one-on-one time to so many sick people. When he couldn't do it in person, he recorded a video and sent it in an email, even if he heard that someone had hours to live.

By giving up his fight Sunday night, by deciding he would no longer fight the allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs, Armstrong isn't technically admitting guilt. But he is letting the USADA do what it believes it has the power to do, based on its belief that he cheated.

His biggest sponsor, Nike, says it will continue to stick by him and his foundation. But things will slowly change.

One has to think that the Livestrong line, which began as an offshoot from the incredible success of the yellow rubber bands worn around millions of people's wrists, will decrease in number. As will the donations to Armstrong's foundation, especially from the people who were inspired to donate by the miracle of his story. It's not as good a story, they'll say.

But Armstrong won't lose the people who he told to live strong, who he inspired to fight on when they had lost their hair, when chemo had ravaged their bodies just like it had invaded his. He won't lose the people who, through his story, believed and, in the end, cheated death.

With the prevalence of media and the way we consume it, we as human beings are challenged more than ever before to digest information and give our take. We are challenged by friends at dinner and by co-workers at the office. What do we think about what happened with this person?

And yet, judging Lance Armstrong is as complex an exercise as we've ever seen.

How does the good outweigh the bad? Does it make up for it? Does it lessen his sports or philanthropic accomplishments?

In a world of now now now, of 140 characters, that can't be answered in one conversation.

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Munichhilton
Hang in there Max, you are too impassioned...its just Bike Riding....say it aloud.

Bike riding...the only thing missing from those photos and X's are juice boxes...

You obviously have no clue about the popularity of bike races and the passion of their supporters. I'm sure in your country there are sports that everyone goes crazy about.

Good article latebloomer. Thanks for posting.

Armstrong isn't technically admitting guilt. But he is letting the USADA do what it believes it has the power to do, based on its belief that he cheated.

In a world of now now now, of 140 characters, that can't be answered in one conversation.

Very wise words

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Here is one thing I have wondered about. Is it indifferent for the French cycling devotees that almost every Tour de France winner nowadays are doped (or will be confirmed doped afterwards)? You don't hear much complaints. Has it become an industry that people are dependent on and, therefore, keep their mouths shut about? Or has doping became an integral part of professional cycling?

"Has doping became an integral part of professional cycling?"

It has always been. As early as 1903 (the first tour) there was some performance-enhancing substances involved : red wine or booze, then cocaine and diethyl ether (which they drank...)

After WWII it was amphetamine then steroids... then Lance came and he brought the thing to another level! A Neil Armstrong level ><

Appearently his "enough is enough"/"look what they do to an innocent man" phoney stance is a way to avoid a trial. Because if the case is brought to a court he'll have to testify under oath.

And lying while under oath is bad when you want to become a the Gov of Texas or the next Prez of the USA...

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dcba
"Has doping became an integral part of professional cycling?"

It has always been. As early as 1903 (the first tour) there was some performance-enhancing substances involved : red wine or booze, then cocaine and diethyl ether (which they drank...)

After WWII it was amphetamine then steroids... then Lance came and he brought the thing to another level! A Neil Armstrong level ><

Appearently his "enough is enough"/"look what they do to an innocent man" phoney stance is a way to avoid a trial. Because if the case is brought to a court he'll have to testify under oath.

And lying while under oath is bad when you want to become a the Gov of Texas or the next Prez of the USA...

Did he not passed every drug screen or did he even submit? Please advise. One thing he does not have going for him is that he comes across like Clemens. Of course, Congress has no business being involved in Sports whatsoever. Whether Clemens was guilty or not -I'm glad he won. I'll take arrogance over gov't intervention all day long.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

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stupidguy2

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Munichhilton
...good on you Lance. You've done more for cancer awareness than any bike could ever carry.

He's also participated in various charitable causes affecting local communities, like post-Katrina, education etc....

I have no idea whether Lance is guilty but IF he is then he's a cheat regardless of any good work he's done. Besides IF he is a cheat then arguably the cheating put him in a position to be charitable and inspirational.

You are bandying about the word "CHEAT" as if he was pulled along in a rickshaw, while someone else pedaled, while Lance sat in the back and drank martinis, exerting no effort... as he won 7 Tours in a row.

The man busted his ass. He wasnt pulled in a rickshaw

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-26 17:16 by Braincapers.

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

He fears nothing..... He Lives Strong.

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

If you have evidence bring it on... if not... then drop it.
Bought and paid for BS testimony is an ages old BS concept.
Innocent until proven guilty... proven by proof not lies and accusations.

They have had years and years and years to bring forth
failed drug tests, they didnt... and still people are whining about it.

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Max'sKansasCity

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

If you have evidence bring it on... if not... then drop it.
Bought and paid for BS testimony is an ages old BS concept.
Innocent until proven guilty... proven by proof not lies and accusations.

They have had years and years and years to bring forth
failed drug tests, they didnt... and still people are whining about it.

I'll say this - if the R&R Hall of Fame accuses inductees of drug use -we're shit out of luck!

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Chris Fountain

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Max'sKansasCity

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

If you have evidence bring it on... if not... then drop it.
Bought and paid for BS testimony is an ages old BS concept.
Innocent until proven guilty... proven by proof not lies and accusations.

They have had years and years and years to bring forth
failed drug tests, they didnt... and still people are whining about it.

I'll say this - if the R&R Hall of Fame accuses inductees of drug use -we're shit out of luck!

Funny you mention them... the goofs running that tourist attraction in Clevelend have about as much valid authority to judge who should be in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (if there was a real one) as the USADA does of stripping Armstrong of his Tour titles.

BTW- As of this morning the real cycling authority has stripped Armstrong of nothing.... fk the USADA.. are they based out of Salem Massachusetts?

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Max'sKansasCity

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Chris Fountain

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Max'sKansasCity

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

If you have evidence bring it on... if not... then drop it.
Bought and paid for BS testimony is an ages old BS concept.
Innocent until proven guilty... proven by proof not lies and accusations.

They have had years and years and years to bring forth
failed drug tests, they didnt... and still people are whining about it.

I'll say this - if the R&R Hall of Fame accuses inductees of drug use -we're shit out of luck!

Funny you mention them... the goofs running that tourist attraction in Clevelend have about as much valid authority to judge who should be in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (if there was a real one) as the USADA does of stripping Armstrong of his Tour titles.

BTW- As of this morning the real cycling authority has stripped Armstrong of nothing.... fk the USADA.. are they based out of Salem Massachusetts?

Is the J Geils Band inducted? Serious question.

Also, will the USADA confiscate the trophys from house in thier witch hunt?

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Chris Fountain

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Max'sKansasCity

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Chris Fountain

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Max'sKansasCity

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Harm

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Max'sKansasCity

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Braincapers

I also bandied IF. I don't know whether he took drugs and IF he did I don't know how many of those races he would have won. But isn't that the point if he took drugs then he cheated and we don't know how well he would have done without them?

We do know... he didnt cheat... he was clean... he passed every drug test.

Well, if he didn't cheat, then he has nothing to fear

If you have evidence bring it on... if not... then drop it.
Bought and paid for BS testimony is an ages old BS concept.
Innocent until proven guilty... proven by proof not lies and accusations.

They have had years and years and years to bring forth
failed drug tests, they didnt... and still people are whining about it.

I'll say this - if the R&R Hall of Fame accuses inductees of drug use -we're shit out of luck!

Funny you mention them... the goofs running that tourist attraction in Clevelend have about as much valid authority to judge who should be in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (if there was a real one) as the USADA does of stripping Armstrong of his Tour titles.

BTW- As of this morning the real cycling authority has stripped Armstrong of nothing.... fk the USADA.. are they based out of Salem Massachusetts?

Is the J Geils Band inducted? Serious question.

Also, will the USADA confiscate the trophys from house in thier witch hunt?

The trophy police? Kicking in his doors? screaming EVERYONE DOWN ON THE FLOOR, WE ARE HERE FOR THE TOUR TROPHYS!!! ... yeah, maybe in their wet dreams those bespectled, 120 pound, nerdly, bow tie wearing, done nothing in their entire lives, jealous minds they think they might.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-26 18:11 by Max'sKansasCity.

This is not complicated. Armstrong did dope through out his carreer as most
cyclist do. By not fighting the USADA he avoided the damaging testimonies of
many cyclist including his best friend George Hincapie. There was also some blood
evidence.
What is not fair is that Ulrich and the other cyclist will now inherit his
tours as they where very likely on dope. Ulrich was banned before.

But the fact that a handful of riders still ride clean makes it fair to go against
the unfairness of dopers.

Armstrong will always be an amazing athlete, but not a clean one.

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ChefGuevara
This is not complicated. Armstrong did dope through out his carreer as most
cyclist do. By not fighting the USADA he avoided the damaging testimonies of
many cyclist including his best friend George Hincapie. There was also some blood
evidence.
What is not fair is that Ulrich and the other cyclist will now inherit his
tours as they where very likely on dope. Ulrich was banned before.

But the fact that a handful of riders still ride clean makes it fair to go against
the unfairness of dopers.

Armstrong will always be an amazing athlete, but not a clean one.

Armstrong did dope more than any other cyclists !
The ICU is very embarassed by his case because we know that they protected Armstrong who was a generous donator to them.
Armstrong can say a big Thank You to Hein Verbruggen (president of ICU from 1991 to 2005)

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jpasc95

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ChefGuevara
This is not complicated. Armstrong did dope through out his carreer as most
cyclist do. By not fighting the USADA he avoided the damaging testimonies of
many cyclist including his best friend George Hincapie. There was also some blood
evidence.
What is not fair is that Ulrich and the other cyclist will now inherit his
tours as they where very likely on dope. Ulrich was banned before.

But the fact that a handful of riders still ride clean makes it fair to go against
the unfairness of dopers.

Armstrong will always be an amazing athlete, but not a clean one.

Armstrong did dope more than any other cyclists !
The ICU is very embarassed by his case because we know that they protected Armstrong who was a generous donator to them.
Armstrong can say a big Thank You to Hein Verbruggen (president of ICU from 1991 to 2005)

You two wouldnt say something like that unless you were there.. right? unless you saw it all with you own eyes, would you? You wouldnt just speculate, would you?

So you both have the evidence? You saw him doing dope? You saw it with your own eyes? Because that is what you are sounding like... And if this is so... Then why didnt (dont) you come forward with your rock solid, proof positive evidence?




[www.iorr.org]

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Max'sKansasCity

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Come On

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treaclefingers

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Come On

That doesn't look remotely like Venus. Much closer to McEnroe though.

No, but this is the all over complete picture of Tennis at it's best, Björn Borg....

I am surprised he isnt being unsubstantially accused of being on dope because he was so dominant... oh wait... he is from Europe... so there will be none of that here.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-27 08:24 by Max'sKansasCity.

Mr Max, I don't speculate. I trust the numerous people who claimed that he used drugs more than others and especially those who saw him do his bad things in front of them.
I don't believe at all that all of them wanted to put Armstrong down for the single reason of jealousy. Come on it's not serious !
He was very popular among the Tour de France fans all over the world. So, it was very risky to lie and charge him with doping with no proof.
Unlike what some think, it was quite brave to say what they knew and what they saw.
I have respect for all these people : Landis, ... and the USADA.

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jpasc95
Mr Max, I don't speculate. I trust the numerous people who claimed that he used drugs more than others and especially those who saw him do his bad things in front of them.
I don't believe at all that all of them wanted to put Armstrong down for the single reason of jealousy. Come on it's not serious !
He was very popular among the Tour de France fans all over the world. So, it was very risky to lie and charge him with doping with no proof.
Unlike what some think, it was quite brave to say what they knew and what they saw.
I have respect for all these people : Landis, ... and the USADA.

Landis is a PROVEN liar. He lied... then when confronted with evidence he admited... but I say "once a liar..always a liar". Landis is a liar... and you respect him?

BTW- I would never jump on a witch hunt bnad wagon unless I knew something for sure, because the karma asscoiated with doing that might be a bitch.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-27 08:49 by Max'sKansasCity.

Landis a proven liar ?
yes i understand that everyone is a liar because they dared to attack your superstar compatriot.
I know you don't want to hear anything but I repeat there are many people who were ready to testify but unfortunatley Armstrong decided it was not useful to go to trial. What a coward !

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jpasc95
Landis a proven liar ?
yes i understand that everyone is a liar because they dared to attack your superstar compatriot.
I know you don't want to hear anything but I repeat there are many people who were ready to testify but unfortunatley Armstrong decided it was not useful to go to trial. What a coward !

LOL... now dont go getting personal... this is not about us or anyone being a compatriot. I stated a fact. Landis is a liar. HE IS A PROVEN LIAR. Do you deny this?

Did you watch the tour where he won? Did you see them accuse him afterwards? Did you see him on TV saying "I DID NOT DOPE".... I belived him... I supported him. Did you see that interview where he denied it? I DID.

Then 2 weeks later LIAR LANDIS finally admitted he lied.... it was sickening. Landis is a liar. That is a fact. There is proof. Evidence. It is not heresay. It is not a witch hunt. It is simple fact.... and now you want us to believe anything this liar Landis says? Sorry, Once bitten twice shy.

Landis is not a valid witness, he is a liar, his credibilty has been impeached.


ps
And you can mark my word... IF Armstrong EVER comes out and says "OK OK I doped" I will be the first one lined up to kick him in the balls... well, kick him in the ball, anyway.

If he beat the system, if he doped... he better take that information to his grave. But I dont think he did. I back him up. He is a proven good man. It is proven that he has done a lot of good for a lot of people. He seems like a man of honor. So if he says he didnt dope, then I believe him.

Good grief , he was tested for dope 20,000+ times over years and years and he passed EVERY test, I believe the tests. It is insane people are still whining about him doping.

Lance Armstrong did not dope and anyone who says he did (without having seen it with their own eyes) is simply a



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-27 10:02 by Max'sKansasCity.

face it Max - your beloved US athlete is a cheat, enough said.

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Eleanor Rigby
face it Max - your beloved US athlete is a cheat, enough said.

yeeeeaawwwwwwnnn

Aloah Guys!



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Armstrong was the best thing that happened to cycling and the Tour.
He brought lots of attention to the sport and with that lots of money.
So a lot of people looked the other way when it came to the doping issue.

The fact, as stated by more than one rider, that Armstrong doped all the time
and also encouraged his team mates to dope in order to keep up and guarantee him
a strong team, makes matters worse but is not surprising at all.

Great athlete anyway but not a nice person!