Tell Me :
Talk
Stones farewell tour, Lance doping case, Greece Bankruptcy, Euro survival, Tour De France, Euro 2012 in Poland / Ukrain, Olympics in London - no need getting bored
)
Manny Pacquiao's last fight result is being review...
A not so good liar.
Hey, haven't I seen this post before ???
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
There's certainly some truth in your statement. Remember, cycling is in fact a roman catholic sport and in those countries the ruling roman catholic ideology was corporatism, meaning that everyone had to stay in his own class: the workers should remain (and produce new) workers, the peasant peasants, the intellectuals intellectuals, the economical, political and military elite well .. etc. Everone should know his place. Under those societal conditions the cyclists were the heros of the working classes: the workers and the peasants in particular. They needed their own heros. But those heros had to remain 'touchable'. And the cyclists were indeed extremely touchable: heros the common man without any social perspective could identify himself with and made him proud.
But when the big money began to rule the game, things steadily changed. We got Bernard Hinault, not a very humble and touchable man. We got the Americans (Greg Lemond), not very humble either. So L.A. was a logical product of these developments which we can call in one word professionalism as a result of commercial influence.
I guess other ones have been more quiet - like Indurain etc..
It's like all sports or in whatever, business, music as well - you have the ones with a big mouth and then the ones that lead a quiter life.
The ones with a big mouth get lots of attention, but also risk to fall deep because of harming other peoples life.
I wasn't talking about "quiet" but about touchable. Indurain was extremely quiet but not touchable at all. Others with a big mouth were. Armstrong was in fact "quiet" too, but untouchable. You have to keep the history of this particular sport in mind. But Germany isn't a traditional cycling country like Belgium, France, Italy and Spain, all roman catholic countries in the old days. In Holland cycling was especially popular in the roman catholic provinces Limburg and Northern Brabant ('Southern' Brabant being in Belgium).
That sounds nice and Indurain seemed a nice guy indeed, though I never got a clue about him as a human being, except being silent during the Tour. But I wouldn't put my hand in the fire for him not having used dope (as we say in Dutch).
.
Exactly - that's where the difference was. Indurain didn't get enemies, Armstrong did.
Impossible, Jacques Anquetil died in 1987.
No, that's a story I really don't remember. I am really curious when that happened.
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Keep On Rolling
Absolutely true. I grew up there and about every weekend my dad and I used to visit a cycling race. There seemed to be a race in every town and even every village.
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
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Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
ChefGuevara
()
Date: June 17, 2012 17:30
He's a good a Cycling and triathlons, but he's a much better liar.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: June 17, 2012 18:28
Imho again he's a victim of this contemporary disease named hubris : L.A. should have done this instead : stop after 3 victories in the Tours de France, then go humanitarian (go to hospitals shake the hand of children plagued with cancer... Moms all over America crying in front of the TV set = very good) then launch his political career.
This would have been the perfect crime...
This would have been the perfect crime...
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
jpasc95
()
Date: June 17, 2012 18:50
at the end of November we should know if L Armtrong will have to give back his Tour de France titles and how many of them.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: June 17, 2012 19:20
Good to have all these cases - keeps us entertained.Quote
jpasc95
at the end of November we should know if L Armtrong will have to give back his Tour de France titles and how many of them.
Stones farewell tour, Lance doping case, Greece Bankruptcy, Euro survival, Tour De France, Euro 2012 in Poland / Ukrain, Olympics in London - no need getting bored
)Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
ChefGuevara
()
Date: June 17, 2012 20:59
Quote
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: June 17, 2012 19:20
Good to have all these cases - keeps us entertained.
Stones farewell tour, Lance doping case, Greece Bankruptcy, Euro survival, Tour De France, Euro 2012 in Poland / Ukrain, Olympics in London - no need getting bored )
Manny Pacquiao's last fight result is being review...
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: June 17, 2012 21:08
I always thought those "Livestrong" yellow bracelets were B.S., sorry...
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 17, 2012 21:11
Quote
ChefGuevara
He's a good a Cycling and triathlons, but he's a much better liar.
A not so good liar.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
ChefGuevara
()
Date: June 17, 2012 21:20
"We don't come here with dogs".
That was pretty honest.
That was pretty honest.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 17, 2012 22:13
Quote
ChefGuevara
"We don't come here with dogs".
That was pretty honest.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Massimo68
()
Date: June 30, 2012 13:30
[www.nytimes.com]
Lance Armstrong Charged With Doping by U.S. Agency
By JULIET MACUR
Published: June 29, 2012
The United States Anti-Doping Agency has officially charged Lance Armstrong with a violation, accusing him of doping during most of his cycling career and participating in a doping conspiracy.
The case against Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner who retired from cycling last year, will be heard by an arbitration panel if he rejects the charges. That arbitration hearing could be open to the public, if Armstrong chooses, and could be held by November.
Armstrong, 40, has hinted that he will fight the charges, which are the latest in more than a decade of doping allegations against him, but he has not announced how he will move forward. He says he has never used performance-enhancing drugs.
Johan Bruyneel, Armstrong’s longtime team manager; Michele Ferrari, Armstrong’s former trainer; two team doctors and a team trainer were also charged with doping violations. They were accused of involvement with the suspected scheme while with the United States Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams.
If the charges against them are upheld, Armstrong and the others cited face lifetime bans from cycling and other Olympic sports.
Robert D. Luskin, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, sent a statement on Friday that said Armstrong was “exploring all his legal options.” He called the antidoping agency’s decision to charge Armstrong “baseless.”
“There is not one shred of credible evidence to support Usada’s charges,” Luskin said.
Luskin said the antidoping agency charged Armstrong based on an e-mail message from Floyd Landis, who was stripped of the Tour title in 2006 for doping, and a television interview given by Tyler Hamilton, who last year admitted being part of a doping scheme on the United States Postal Service team. Both were Armstrong’s teammates and have claimed that Armstrong doped and encouraged doping.
The antidoping agency has said, however, that it has more than 10 cyclists who will testify against Armstrong, as well as other team employees who will say Armstrong doped. The agency says it has firsthand witnesses for every charge.
Armstrong was notified earlier this month that the agency was set to charge him.
Lance Armstrong Charged With Doping by U.S. Agency
By JULIET MACUR
Published: June 29, 2012
The United States Anti-Doping Agency has officially charged Lance Armstrong with a violation, accusing him of doping during most of his cycling career and participating in a doping conspiracy.
The case against Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner who retired from cycling last year, will be heard by an arbitration panel if he rejects the charges. That arbitration hearing could be open to the public, if Armstrong chooses, and could be held by November.
Armstrong, 40, has hinted that he will fight the charges, which are the latest in more than a decade of doping allegations against him, but he has not announced how he will move forward. He says he has never used performance-enhancing drugs.
Johan Bruyneel, Armstrong’s longtime team manager; Michele Ferrari, Armstrong’s former trainer; two team doctors and a team trainer were also charged with doping violations. They were accused of involvement with the suspected scheme while with the United States Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams.
If the charges against them are upheld, Armstrong and the others cited face lifetime bans from cycling and other Olympic sports.
Robert D. Luskin, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, sent a statement on Friday that said Armstrong was “exploring all his legal options.” He called the antidoping agency’s decision to charge Armstrong “baseless.”
“There is not one shred of credible evidence to support Usada’s charges,” Luskin said.
Luskin said the antidoping agency charged Armstrong based on an e-mail message from Floyd Landis, who was stripped of the Tour title in 2006 for doping, and a television interview given by Tyler Hamilton, who last year admitted being part of a doping scheme on the United States Postal Service team. Both were Armstrong’s teammates and have claimed that Armstrong doped and encouraged doping.
The antidoping agency has said, however, that it has more than 10 cyclists who will testify against Armstrong, as well as other team employees who will say Armstrong doped. The agency says it has firsthand witnesses for every charge.
Armstrong was notified earlier this month that the agency was set to charge him.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Massimo68
()
Date: June 30, 2012 13:31
BTW, the 2012 Tour de France begins today..in Belgium.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Title5Take1
()
Date: June 30, 2012 19:21
I once heard a bunch of bike nuts talking. And most of them agreed they got into biking because they'd found they were uncoordinated, which canceled out sports where coordination was required (basketball, tennis...). Ever since I've (probably unfairly) not thought much of the sport of biking.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: June 30, 2012 20:22
"Ever since I've (probably unfairly) not thought much of the sport of biking"
Well in some countries (France Belgium and probably Ialy and Spain too) biking is the sport of the underdog : the poor guy coming from the working class that rises to the top. And the "working class hero" will be praise to the skies as long as he remains humble about his success.
On the Tour de" France L.A. never was popular because he didn't play by these rules. My guess is he tried to bring to Le Tour values imported from other sports : cold ruthless hard-hearted winner/warrior. That didn't work at all.
“There is not one shred of credible evidence to support Usada’s charges”
That's rich if you remember that when the French Doping Agency tested L.A.'s very first urine sample they had kept frozen (it was from 1999 iirc) they hit paydirt : EPO was in the sample.
Well in some countries (France Belgium and probably Ialy and Spain too) biking is the sport of the underdog : the poor guy coming from the working class that rises to the top. And the "working class hero" will be praise to the skies as long as he remains humble about his success.
On the Tour de" France L.A. never was popular because he didn't play by these rules. My guess is he tried to bring to Le Tour values imported from other sports : cold ruthless hard-hearted winner/warrior. That didn't work at all.
“There is not one shred of credible evidence to support Usada’s charges”
That's rich if you remember that when the French Doping Agency tested L.A.'s very first urine sample they had kept frozen (it was from 1999 iirc) they hit paydirt : EPO was in the sample.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: July 1, 2012 01:06
Quote
GOO
Doper
Hey, haven't I seen this post before ???
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: July 1, 2012 03:13
Quote
dcba
Well in some countries (France Belgium and probably Ialy and Spain too) biking is the sport of the underdog : the poor guy coming from the working class that rises to the top. And the "working class hero" will be praise to the skies as long as he remains humble about his success.
There's certainly some truth in your statement. Remember, cycling is in fact a roman catholic sport and in those countries the ruling roman catholic ideology was corporatism, meaning that everyone had to stay in his own class: the workers should remain (and produce new) workers, the peasant peasants, the intellectuals intellectuals, the economical, political and military elite well .. etc. Everone should know his place. Under those societal conditions the cyclists were the heros of the working classes: the workers and the peasants in particular. They needed their own heros. But those heros had to remain 'touchable'. And the cyclists were indeed extremely touchable: heros the common man without any social perspective could identify himself with and made him proud.
But when the big money began to rule the game, things steadily changed. We got Bernard Hinault, not a very humble and touchable man. We got the Americans (Greg Lemond), not very humble either. So L.A. was a logical product of these developments which we can call in one word professionalism as a result of commercial influence.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: July 1, 2012 14:34
Quote
kleermakerQuote
dcba
Well in some countries (France Belgium and probably Ialy and Spain too) biking is the sport of the underdog : the poor guy coming from the working class that rises to the top. And the "working class hero" will be praise to the skies as long as he remains humble about his success.
There's certainly some truth in your statement. Remember, cycling is in fact a roman catholic sport and in those countries the ruling roman catholic ideology was corporatism, meaning that everyone had to stay in his own class: the workers should remain (and produce new) workers, the peasant peasants, the intellectuals intellectuals, the economical, political and military elite well .. etc. Everone should know his place. Under those societal conditions the cyclists were the heros of the working classes: the workers and the peasants in particular. They needed their own heros. But those heros had to remain 'touchable'. And the cyclists were indeed extremely touchable: heros the common man without any social perspective could identify himself with and made him proud.
But when the big money began to rule the game, things steadily changed. We got Bernard Hinault, not a very humble and touchable man. We got the Americans (Greg Lemond), not very humble either. So L.A. was a logical product of these developments which we can call in one word professionalism as a result of commercial influence.
I guess other ones have been more quiet - like Indurain etc..
It's like all sports or in whatever, business, music as well - you have the ones with a big mouth and then the ones that lead a quiter life.
The ones with a big mouth get lots of attention, but also risk to fall deep because of harming other peoples life.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: July 1, 2012 15:53
Quote
mtaylorQuote
kleermakerQuote
dcba
Well in some countries (France Belgium and probably Ialy and Spain too) biking is the sport of the underdog : the poor guy coming from the working class that rises to the top. And the "working class hero" will be praise to the skies as long as he remains humble about his success.
There's certainly some truth in your statement. Remember, cycling is in fact a roman catholic sport and in those countries the ruling roman catholic ideology was corporatism, meaning that everyone had to stay in his own class: the workers should remain (and produce new) workers, the peasant peasants, the intellectuals intellectuals, the economical, political and military elite well .. etc. Everone should know his place. Under those societal conditions the cyclists were the heros of the working classes: the workers and the peasants in particular. They needed their own heros. But those heros had to remain 'touchable'. And the cyclists were indeed extremely touchable: heros the common man without any social perspective could identify himself with and made him proud.
But when the big money began to rule the game, things steadily changed. We got Bernard Hinault, not a very humble and touchable man. We got the Americans (Greg Lemond), not very humble either. So L.A. was a logical product of these developments which we can call in one word professionalism as a result of commercial influence.
I guess other ones have been more quiet - like Indurain etc..
It's like all sports or in whatever, business, music as well - you have the ones with a big mouth and then the ones that lead a quiter life.
The ones with a big mouth get lots of attention, but also risk to fall deep because of harming other peoples life.
I wasn't talking about "quiet" but about touchable. Indurain was extremely quiet but not touchable at all. Others with a big mouth were. Armstrong was in fact "quiet" too, but untouchable. You have to keep the history of this particular sport in mind. But Germany isn't a traditional cycling country like Belgium, France, Italy and Spain, all roman catholic countries in the old days. In Holland cycling was especially popular in the roman catholic provinces Limburg and Northern Brabant ('Southern' Brabant being in Belgium).
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
ChefGuevara
()
Date: July 1, 2012 17:18
The historical and cultural side of the sport builded some strong ethics that where not easily understood at first by riders like Armstrong. Remember the story about Jacques Anquetil hitting the breaks before the finish line to avoid 3rd place in order not to share podium with Armstrong?
But for me what summarizes the difference between L.A. and Indurain are those moments like when Pantani was 3rd on the Tour and had a crash. Indurain went to the front of the peloton and made them wait for Pantani.
But when Alex Zulle was left behind due to a unfortunate bridge that separated the peloton, Armstrong gave his team the order to go.
Indurain was a boring rider for the tour. Maybe not so good for ratings because of the way he just controlled his losses on the high mountains and then blast away on TT to win the Tours. But an amazing gentleman that carried the true ethics of the sport and respect for all other riders.
But for me what summarizes the difference between L.A. and Indurain are those moments like when Pantani was 3rd on the Tour and had a crash. Indurain went to the front of the peloton and made them wait for Pantani.
But when Alex Zulle was left behind due to a unfortunate bridge that separated the peloton, Armstrong gave his team the order to go.
Indurain was a boring rider for the tour. Maybe not so good for ratings because of the way he just controlled his losses on the high mountains and then blast away on TT to win the Tours. But an amazing gentleman that carried the true ethics of the sport and respect for all other riders.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:06
Quote
ChefGuevara
The historical and cultural side of the sport builded some strong ethics that where not easily understood at first by riders like Armstrong. Remember the story about Jacques Anquetil hitting the breaks before the finish line to avoid 3rd place in order not to share podium with Armstrong?
But for me what summarizes the difference between L.A. and Indurain are those moments like when Pantani was 3rd on the Tour and had a crash. Indurain went to the front of the peloton and made them wait for Pantani.
But when Alex Zulle was left behind due to a unfortunate bridge that separated the peloton, Armstrong gave his team the order to go.
Indurain was a boring rider for the tour. Maybe not so good for ratings because of the way he just controlled his losses on the high mountains and then blast away on TT to win the Tours. But an amazing gentleman that carried the true ethics of the sport and respect for all other riders.
That sounds nice and Indurain seemed a nice guy indeed, though I never got a clue about him as a human being, except being silent during the Tour. But I wouldn't put my hand in the fire for him not having used dope (as we say in Dutch).
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
ChefGuevara
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:10
I wouldn't put my hand on fire for any tour winner.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:12
Quote
ChefGuevara
The historical and cultural side of the sport builded some strong ethics that where not easily understood at first by riders like Armstrong. Remember the story about Jacques Anquetil hitting the breaks before the finish line to avoid 3rd place in order not to share podium with Armstrong?
But for me what summarizes the difference between L.A. and Indurain are those moments like when Pantani was 3rd on the Tour and had a crash. Indurain went to the front of the peloton and made them wait for Pantani.
But when Alex Zulle was left behind due to a unfortunate bridge that separated the peloton, Armstrong gave his team the order to go.
Indurain was a boring rider for the tour. Maybe not so good for ratings because of the way he just controlled his losses on the high mountains and then blast away on TT to win the Tours. But an amazing gentleman that carried the true ethics of the sport and respect for all other riders.
.Exactly - that's where the difference was. Indurain didn't get enemies, Armstrong did.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:46
Quote
ChefGuevara
Remember the story about Jacques Anquetil hitting the breaks before the finish line to avoid 3rd place in order not to share podium with Armstrong?
Impossible, Jacques Anquetil died in 1987.
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:47
Quote
ChefGuevara
Remember the story about Jacques Anquetil hitting the breaks before the finish line to avoid 3rd place in order not to share podium with Armstrong?
No, that's a story I really don't remember. I am really curious when that happened.
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:48
LOL Koen, you beat me to it
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
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Keep On Rolling
Re: OT : Lance Armstrong
Posted by:
Rolling Hansie
()
Date: July 1, 2012 18:52
Quote
kleermaker
You have to keep the history of this particular sport in mind. In Holland cycling was especially popular in the roman catholic provinces Limburg and Northern Brabant
Absolutely true. I grew up there and about every weekend my dad and I used to visit a cycling race. There seemed to be a race in every town and even every village.
-------------------
Keep On Rolling
This Thread has been closed