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Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Some short but very fast licks, and not all notes are hammer-ons. Ive never heard Keith play that fast again, before or after.

You better listen to Rock And A Hard Place on Live In Tokyo 1990 smoking smiley

The palm muted licks that Keith is playing on "Rock And A Hard Place" on Live In Tokyo 1990 are a bit slower, and more important, they are chromatic. So from a technical point of view that's easier to play compared to the (faster) blues based licks on STFTD. Playing "fast" on a guitar is relative btw, it also depends on the fingering type.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-01 17:29 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:29

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Some short but very fast licks, and not all notes are hammer-ons. Ive never heard Keith play that fast again, before or after.

You better listen to Rock And A Hard Place on Live In Tokyo 1990 smoking smiley

The palm muted licks that Keith is playing on "Rock And A Hard Place" on Live In Tokyo 1990 are a bit slower, and more important, they are chromatic. So from a technical point of view that's easier to play compared to the (faster) blues based licks on STFTD. Playing "fast" on a guitar is relative.

I don't think those spanish licks are neither palm-muted or slower.

More open strings are involved, yes, but I wouldn't say those RAAHP-licks are easier to play.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Koen ()
Date: November 1, 2016 17:30

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Playing "fast" on a guitar is relative.

Exactly. Listen to David Gilmour, he usually plays slow, but when he then speeds up a bit, it sounds very fast.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I don't think those spanish licks are neither palm-muted or slower.

More open strings are involved, yes, but I wouldn't say those RAAHP-licks are easier to play.

Sure it was palm muted. It was fashion in 8-tees and 9-tees to play these kind of muted lines.
Can you point out were he plays the Spanish licks?

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: November 1, 2016 17:37

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
Quote
powerage78
Keith SFTD solos are awful for years.
2016 ones are purely horrible.
Even sad.

Sad but true. Amazing how the same guy who cut that great solo in the studio and played so great on stage has deteriorated into playing "solos" that barely deserve to be called solos. Keith will always be my hero but man, what a difference...

There's about 48 years between the recording of the solo and the last gigs....what do you expect?

Mathijs

True...Time waits for no one....

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:38

Measuring what's consistently faster is not difficult, though smiling smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:49

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Measuring what's consistently faster is not difficult, though smiling smiley





[www.youtube.com]

I don't want to be "Mr know it all" but you show me Keith playing triplets here, on STFTD we are talking semiquavers, I.E more notes per beat in this very case. The tempo of both songs is comparable.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 17:57

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Measuring what's consistently faster is not difficult, though smiling smiley





[www.youtube.com]

I don't want to be "Mr know it all" but you show me Keith playing triplets here, on STFTD we are talking semiquavers, I.E more notes per beat in this very case. The tempo of both songs is comparable.

For a tenth of a second he is indeed playing faster on SFTD, but the rest isn't really comparable, imo.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: SwayStones ()
Date: November 1, 2016 18:01

Quote
GravityBoy
I must watch the Godard film again.

I can't remember Keith doing the solo in it.

And to be fair, it's not "usual Keith" and does have a touch of the Jimmy Pages about it.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 18:09

Quote
DandelionPowderman

For a tenth of a second he is indeed playing faster on SFTD, but the rest isn't really comparable, imo.

Completely different music indeed. But Keith set his speed limit on SFTD, that's all I wanted to say. Sometimes music is Mathematics.smiling smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: November 1, 2016 18:15

Sympathy For the devil - Rock And Roll Circus




Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 18:21

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman

For a tenth of a second he is indeed playing faster on SFTD, but the rest isn't really comparable, imo.

Completely different music indeed. But Keith set his speed limit on SFTD, that's all I wanted to say. Sometimes music is Mathematics.smiling smiley

smileys with beer

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: RaiseTheKnife ()
Date: November 1, 2016 18:48

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Some short but very fast licks, and not all notes are hammer-ons. Ive never heard Keith play that fast again, before or after.

You better listen to Rock And A Hard Place on Live In Tokyo 1990 smoking smiley

The palm muted licks that Keith is playing on "Rock And A Hard Place" on Live In Tokyo 1990 are a bit slower, and more important, they are chromatic. So from a technical point of view that's easier to play compared to the (faster) blues based licks on STFTD. Playing "fast" on a guitar is relative.

I don't think those spanish licks are neither palm-muted or slower.

More open strings are involved, yes, but I wouldn't say those RAAHP-licks are easier to play.

He's playing an E phrygian scale with open strings, very odd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-01 18:49 by RaiseTheKnife.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: RaiseTheKnife ()
Date: November 1, 2016 18:59

The most technically challenging Keith-lick I've stumbled upon is his trademark CB-lick on SFTD from St. Louis 1997, cause it's faster than other times he's playing that lick. It's a challenging lick since it's only 1 note per string and it has ''inside the string picking''. Way harder for me to play than spanish RAAHP or old SFTD solo. Paul Gilbert talks about it here: Paul Gilbert String Skipping

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 1, 2016 19:17

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Who else could it be. Some session guy borrowing Keith's guitar and amp?

Clapton? He could have played the fast licks. Or Kieht did play the entire but at a slower speed then the engineer vari-sped to solo to make match with the ley of the song.
Said differently it's possible to imagine Keith played the solo in the key of D then it was sped-up by several % to bring it up to E (the key of SFTD).

Varispeed was part of the studio wizardry. In 1970 "Layla" (the song) was sped-up by several %'s to give it a special feel.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: November 1, 2016 19:28

Keith overdubbed extra guitar for the David Frost TV programme.

1968 4th - 10th June: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Jimmy Miller.
Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
Sympathy For The Devil I (MJ/KR) -additional backing vocals by Anita
Pallenberg, Marianne Faithfull and Nicky Hopkins; Rocky Dijon on
congas, Nicky Hopkins on piano; backing track with some more guitar
(used as backing track for Frost On Saturday-show)

1968 29th November: UK TV (LWT) 'Frost On Saturday', London, incl.
- Sympathy For The Devil (MJ/KR) -live vocals on prepared backing track
Line-up: MJ (voc)/KR (perc, gtr)/BJ (p)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Rocky Dijon (perc)
Note: Televised on the 30th November. The used backing track differs from the
final (Beggars Banquet-) mix as it includes some more guitar licks by KR.
[www.nzentgraf.de]
[www.youtube.com]





"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-01 19:31 by Deltics.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 19:38

Quote
dcba
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Who else could it be. Some session guy borrowing Keith's guitar and amp?

Clapton? He could have played the fast licks. Or Kieht did play the entire but at a slower speed then the engineer vari-sped to solo to make match with the ley of the song.
Said differently it's possible to imagine Keith played the solo in the key of D then it was sped-up by several % to bring it up to E (the key of SFTD).

Varispeed was part of the studio wizardry. In 1970 "Layla" (the song) was sped-up by several %'s to give it a special feel.

Ha ha, no way smiling smiley

I don't know why people think this solo is particularly difficult or something that Keith, their lead guitarist since 1962, couldn't play..

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: November 1, 2016 19:43

As to the speed, he could have played it slower and then sped it up, as already suggested. I believe they did something like this on the solo on Crazy Mama.
Pretty sure Keith played the solo; but even if coaxed that solo out of somebody else, it's an accomplishment either way. What matters is what's on the record.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 1, 2016 20:09

Omg. The solo is real easy. It fits the song. It is heav(en)ily inspired - as the rest of the song of course - by Traffics Dear Mr Fantasy, a Jimmy Miller production from 1967.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 20:09

Quote
wonderboy
As to the speed, he could have played it slower and then sped it up, as already suggested. I believe they did something like this on the solo on Crazy Mama.
Pretty sure Keith played the solo; but even if coaxed that solo out of somebody else, it's an accomplishment either way. What matters is what's on the record.

Why on earth do you believe Ronnie felt the need to do that on Crazy Mama,

By that logic I wonder how much they sped up the tape on Sing This All Together (See What Happens) confused smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 1, 2016 20:12

Quote
powerage78
Keith SFTD solos are awful for years.
2016 ones are purely horrible.
Even sad.

True. They are just embarrassing. Have been since I dont know when. I know the first vegas version had a "good" solo but with the song moving into Disney land that didnt help. I hope Keith tries to come up with something new and not those stupid notes he's repeated over and over. Maybe something beginning on the low E-string or whatever.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: November 1, 2016 20:17

I don't know why there's a discussion. Only Keith has this kind of attack and rhythm. He leaves so much space between licks in the outro, which makes the licks he plays even more aggressive and important.
You can hear the same kind of attack already in the solos of very early tracks.

And I think the solo of 2120 SMA is way more difficult to play than the SFTD solo. He plays very fast double stop licks, which I find hard to replicate.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 1, 2016 21:40

THIS is difficult. THIS is much much harder to play like Keith plays it. video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-01 21:41 by Redhotcarpet.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 1, 2016 23:23

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Who else could it be. Some session guy borrowing Keith's guitar and amp?

Clapton? He could have played the fast licks. Or Kieht did play the entire but at a slower speed then the engineer vari-sped to solo to make match with the ley of the song.
Said differently it's possible to imagine Keith played the solo in the key of D then it was sped-up by several % to bring it up to E (the key of SFTD).

Varispeed was part of the studio wizardry. In 1970 "Layla" (the song) was sped-up by several %'s to give it a special feel.

Ha ha, no way smiling smiley

I don't know why people think this solo is particularly difficult or something that Keith, their lead guitarist since 1962, couldn't play..

Not doubting it's Keith, but it's a unique solo - nothing before or after quite resembles it.
There might be a couple similar licks in throughout repertoire, but the entire studio solo taken as a whole stands alone.
The possibility of the studio version being sped up never occurred to me, but there might be some truth to the matter.
I can't think of any live versions that sound quite like the original does. Sure many are great, but rarely do they even come close to the studio version as far as style and technique.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 1, 2016 23:49

Nothing before or after resembles SFTD, including the solo - just as nothing resembles Sitting On A Fence and the guitar on that one.

There are many more examples of Keith laying down bafflingly cool guitar tracks.

The super-fast, free jazz/psychedelic guitar on See What Happens is another one that came out of left field smiling smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: November 1, 2016 23:56

I've always found Keith's "Shelter" and "Sympathy" solos to be quite similar. He hangs on the root, bends the 4th, etc. He's just more elaborate and *faster* on "Sympathy". But that's Keith, to my ears at least. Ronnie plays a nice facsimile of this solo now. Keith, not so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-01 23:56 by bleedingman.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: berlinjive ()
Date: November 2, 2016 02:27

Sorry if i sounded terse in my post. but i really did just blast it out in the middle of the night to avoid my looming deadline. I have total respect for this place... I've learned SO much here.

I'm surprised so many of you are sure its not a Tele. Is it that exact tone in the studio film? I don't own the DVD so will check on-line. I have seen it at midnight shows in the 70's.

Can anyone point to a YouTube clip that they or anyone is doing this sound on a LPC? I have a Thinline telecaster + a Blackguard re-issue and 2 pickup Les Paul Custom... & get closer with the Teles. Is it specifically due to the 3rd pup? What configuration? I've read that some PAFs had an almost Tele-ish thing. My boutique PAFs are 7.7k/8.3k...medium outputs.

And ok, it is a blues solo... but i meant it like as in a more metal feel or "rock"... non-Stones if you will... due to the piercing/saturation. Jimi could do that riff and of course I'd say its a blues thing. To me Communication Breakdown is Rock music. just semantics i suppose.

I think it's that tone that grabs casual fans first. But it is the well-composed notes of a master which helps it be an enduring song. For me its one of the simple great hooks in rock music and why i wanted to post about it.

Just looked at Rock’n’Roll Circus. he uses bridge for solos & neck position for the rest right? On Keith's 3 pickup: is the up position on that guitar neck only or neck middle? (I was happy to see that axe finally at the Saachi Gallery this summer. thought it looked long neglected.) Right, just watched the Goddard. So is it where Keith is sitting on the floor playing that its the guitar tone? I'm not convinced personally. Its not like i see a Telecaster in the back there somewhere...

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 2, 2016 10:46

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Nothing before or after resembles SFTD, including the solo - just as nothing resembles Sitting On A Fence and the guitar on that one.

There are many more examples of Keith laying down bafflingly cool guitar tracks.

The super-fast, free jazz/psychedelic guitar on See What Happens is another one that came out of left field smiling smiley
''
Exactly Dandy; well said.
Keith was in the zone for those 4-5 years. There is a reason Keith is mentioned among the greatest guitarists of rock again and again. At some freakin point he blew our minds. Just because he has not done it since doesn't take away from it.

And actually there are many instances of Keith playing baffingly well. First off he was very fast, and very accurate on the early R&B solos.
"Down the Road Apiece" just e.g.; but all the way to the Wino live shows. I saw Keith both tours, and maybe it was Jordan, maybe it was wassy, maybe it was playing on small stages night after night with a newer band - but he was on fire.

Sorry - that is supposed to be Waddy of course, LOL; it was dark.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-02 14:55 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 2, 2016 10:57

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Nothing before or after resembles SFTD, including the solo - just as nothing resembles Sitting On A Fence and the guitar on that one.

There are many more examples of Keith laying down bafflingly cool guitar tracks.

The super-fast, free jazz/psychedelic guitar on See What Happens is another one that came out of left field smiling smiley
''
Exactly Dandy; well said.
Keith was in the zone for those 4-5 years. There is a reason Keith is mentioned among the greatest guitarists of rock again and again. At some freakin point he blew our minds. Just because he has not done it since doesn't take away from it.

And actually there are many instances of Keith playing baffingly well. First off he was very fast, and very accurate on the early R&B solos.
"Down the Road Apiece" just e.g.; but all the way to the Wino live shows. I saw Keith both tours, and maybe it was Jordan, maybe it was wassy, maybe it was playing on small stages night after night with a newer band - but he was on fire.

I reckon you mean the 1988 Winos-shows? I think something happened after 1990. It might have been the arthrithis kicking in. Anyways, he changed his lead guitar-style. It was very noticable on the B2B-tour that he focused on fewer notes and repeating stuff, instead of exploring new things, like he actually did on the SW/UJ tours.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: RaiseTheKnife ()
Date: November 2, 2016 11:07

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I reckon you mean the 1988 Winos-shows? I think something happened after 1990. It might have been the arthrithis kicking in. Anyways, he changed his lead guitar-style. It was very noticable on the B2B-tour that he focused on fewer notes and repeating stuff, instead of exploring new things, like he actually did on the SW/UJ tours.

I reckon it was more of an artistic choice? I'll take the accurate and controlled SFTD solo from St Louis '97 over the sloppy and messy solos he played on that song in '89 and '90 anyday. He probably could have played just as fast in 1997 but maybe maybe chose not to and focused more on accuracy and tastefulness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-02 11:07 by RaiseTheKnife.

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