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Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: December 15, 2011 20:48

Also to the point is that KR probably did 4 or 5 takes of the solo in the studio and then used the best parts of each take for the record.He talks about this in his book , Life. This is even more prevalent with Pro Tools where individual notes are sometimes cut and pasted to make the final product.

so Mathijs, you were in a Stones tribute band? That explains alot. Sounds like alot of fun. I assume you played the part of KR? peace.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 15, 2011 21:56

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Max'sKansasCity
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Redhotcarpet
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Max'sKansasCity
Thanks for those tomk

I am hoping some of our local guitar heros (supposed experts) do it for us and without the actual song/band playing so loudly in the background... we know what it sounds like... so let er rip boys....come on, everyone has a video device, and posting to youtube is soooo easy.

But ya know, I am not even sure what the point of this thread is. Really, what is the point? I used to go to school with a cival engineer (he went on to design bridges, he was smart, a freekin genius) anyway... this guy could play anything note for note... I mean anything... anything from Hendrix to Page or Eddie VanHalen... he would use LPs to learn it note for note... and when he played it... it was pefect, like a recording... he was amazing..... he couldnt write anything original... but he could play other people stuff perfectly.

My point is.... we all know, or have known, people like that... so there is no neeed for any snotty ass, holier-than-thou attitudes on this board. No one needs to act all high and mighty. If you can play it, then play it, record and post it on youtube... get applause from IORR... or not.

It is just odd that I (we) have heard Keith NOT play it correctly live for year and years. I listen for it, and he blows it, baddly, most of the time. It is just unusual.




I dont know what your problem is but heres the thing. This solo is incredibly easy to play its not even hard to come up with because its a basic blues solo. Its good, it has a special unique sound to it, with the chord progression the solo becomes bigger than it actually is. Even bigger than life, thanks to the song. But, it's not anywhere near the butterfly that lived in Jimi Hendrixs fingers and it's nowhere near the symphonic progressions of Hotel California. Or Ed Kings virtuoso like picikings on Sweet home Alabama.

Now, there are a billion guitar players on and off youtube. Im one of those who can sound excactly like Keith Richards. Do you know why? Because i just like the rest of us listened real hard to his guitar.
So there no mistery here. Listen, copy and learn - and then bring out the musician get into your system, to the bone.
All you who play guitar know what I mean. You learn the song and then you "become" the song, you make the most of JJF, you get that perfect feel on Rambler when it really comes alive. Same with Dance little sister or Prodigal son or Parachute Woman. Or YCAGWYW and why not You got the silver. The rifing on Live with me. The solo on Gimme Shelter. And this is the easy stuff. Worried bout you, Keiths licks on the standard tuned version of YCAGWYW on Rock n roll circus.

Either you have the blues or you dont. Either you can get a whole soundtrack out of one note or you cant. I know I can becasue I am a musician and I've gradually also learned Keiths riffs, songs, licks etc. Not all of them but still. And after awhile they sort of move into your system. You suddenly not only copy. This is nothing new or unique in anyway at all.

Same feeling Keith got when he sat in his room and had to live thru Berry, or ten years later in the studio corner listening to the young brat Ry Cooder play like a freaking genius. You have to copy it note by note and then, from there learn it again but with your own touch (what Keith finally did in 1971 recording Exile) or "adopt the art" of the composer, meaning you start to play like you were Keith.

Max, this is no BS every guitar player or musician on iorr know what I mean. Some of them are brave enough to upload videos, some are better than others but still.

Please do your thing, whatever that is, on another thread not this one.

lol, yeah, about what I expected.

Hey redhothead, there is no need for your high and mighty holier than thou attitude trying to tell people where they are allowed to post.

I was NOT being snotty when I first posted about maybe using a capo, I was offering a possible tip. I never said Keith needed it, or guitar experts needed it.... I was NOT acting like some kind guitar god. I was not holding myself out as some guitar expert, or holier than thou quoter of "either ya got the blues or ya dont" ...I was simply saying if a novice guitar player wanted to play this lick and they used a capo it might make it a lil easier on them. Then people stormed in and started ranting how ludicrous using a capo is... or quoting me specifiically, telling me what was what. They addressed me, I replied.

Then I simply replied.... if anyone is such a hot guitar player, and this lick is so simple, then how about show us, or if you dont want to... then that is ok too...

There is no need to get upitty towards me or try to tell me to post else where... I will post where I want when I want.

Great, post whatever you want, just saying the solo is easy to play.
Keith plays the solo on SFTD. The solo is kinda "stiff" and "pointy" and that's why, I guess, Keith prefers to play something easier or slower live.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: December 15, 2011 22:10

I wonder if Keith was influenced by Bloomfields solos on 'Tombstone Blues' which by the way is among the very first proper solos in history of rock'n'roll...

2 1 2 0

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: December 15, 2011 22:17

Quote
Come On
I wonder if Keith was influenced by Bloomfields solos on 'Tombstone Blues' which by the way is among the very first proper solos in history of rock'n'roll...

Probably not and no it isn't. smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-15 22:58 by His Majesty.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: December 16, 2011 00:00

As a mention, I did listen to Justin instruct on Midnight Rambler a ways back,
and it was very good....my friend got it down on account of that.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 16, 2011 00:23

Quote
Sacke
I like the Mick Taylor parts...

I didn't see them yet.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Sacke ()
Date: December 16, 2011 08:12

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Amsterdamned
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Sacke
I like the Mick Taylor parts...

I didn't see them yet.

eye rolling smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 16, 2011 08:50

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Sacke
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Amsterdamned
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Sacke
I like the Mick Taylor parts...

I didn't see them yet.

eye rolling smiley

cheers!smiling smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: December 16, 2011 08:59

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Amsterdamned
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Sacke
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Amsterdamned
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Sacke
I like the Mick Taylor parts...

I didn't see them yet.

eye rolling smiley

cheers!smiling smiley

and I can't hear him but have always thought that Taylors intrusion at 00:50 on Gimme Shelter is fantastic and other says that's Keith...

some errors may happens...

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: WeLoveYou ()
Date: December 16, 2011 12:08

If anyone hasn't mentioned it, there is a similarity between Keith's solos on both the studio SFTD and the Ya-Yas one. The Ya-Yas solo has a similar climax (before Mick T's solo starts), I think he was trying to recreate the end of the solo part in the studio version with the sliding crunch (just before the chorus).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-16 13:34 by WeLoveYou.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:32

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WeLoveYou
If anyone hasn't mentioned it, there is a similarity between Keith's solos on both the studio SFTD and the Ya-Yas one. The Ya-Yas solo has a similar climax (before Mick T's solo starts), I think he was trying to recreate the end of the solo part in the studio version with the sliding crunch (just before the chorus).

Same on LYL, at the end of the solo(s) they do parts of the original solo.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: December 16, 2011 18:36

The dueling Richards/Taylor solos on the Ya Yas SFTD may be the strongest performance from not only the Stones, but from any band captured on tape.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: December 16, 2011 19:15

*This is a real Jimmy Page like guitar hero solo, something like the solo at the end of Stairway To Heaven. Keith wasn't/isn't that kind of player.*

- huh? it doesn't sound anything like the Stairway solo. Of course this is Keith playing it. only keith plays solos (other than the Chuck Berry double stop kind) with a sting like that. the album (Beggars) credits Richards on electric guitar; Mason or any other outsider guitar player are not even listed on the songs credits; Jones' acoustic was practically wiped off the mix so its sure as hell not his electric solo. its a signature keith solo. i mean is this even debatable? keith's more in it for the impact of how it sounds, rather than playing scales, and that is surely evident here. it's typical keith, not technically overwhelming but as far as feel, memorability etc, its a classic, and the defining point that should to prove to anybody that it is keith is that vicious lick, or more like a chomp! at the very end.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 16, 2011 19:35

Quote
Naturalust
Also to the point is that KR probably did 4 or 5 takes of the solo in the studio and then used the best parts of each take for the record.He talks about this in his book , Life. This is even more prevalent with Pro Tools where individual notes are sometimes cut and pasted to make the final product.

so Mathijs, you were in a Stones tribute band? That explains alot. Sounds like alot of fun. I assume you played the part of KR? peace.

There's this video game separated tracks version, with one track only the electric guitar. It indeed sounds like Keith just played two dozen of licks, and they kept the best parts.

For the tribute band I was the Taylor/Wood guy, the other guitarist Richards. But we never intended to copy the Stones, except for sound and energy. Some tracks we did where quite close, like Tumbling Dice which was quite copied from Brussels (inlcluding fat Ampeg sound), but other tracks like 100 years where our own interpretation. I'll never say we where the best musically or technically (I certainly made more mistakes in one gig than Taylor in his entire Stones carreer), but we where a fun band to watch, had a fantastic frontman, there was lots of energy, and of course had a great choice of fantastic songs.

Mathijs

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: December 19, 2011 18:32

Quote
Mathijs


For the tribute band I was the Taylor/Wood guy, the other guitarist Richards. But we never intended to copy the Stones, except for sound and energy. Some tracks we did where quite close, like Tumbling Dice which was quite copied from Brussels (inlcluding fat Ampeg sound), but other tracks like 100 years where our own interpretation. I'll never say we where the best musically or technically (I certainly made more mistakes in one gig than Taylor in his entire Stones carreer), but we where a fun band to watch, had a fantastic frontman, there was lots of energy, and of course had a great choice of fantastic songs.

Mathijs

Very cool! What a gas that must have been. You guys probably rocked better than the Stones on a good night, wish I could have heard you. Are you still playing with those fellows?

I admit to playing several Stones songs as covers with various outfits I've played with. Did you (or the other guitarist) figure out all the open G, D and E tunings when you were playing or did you bash them out with standard tunings like I did? It's funny how KR talks about it all in Life, I was one of the guys who though he had the intro to Can't You Hear me Knockin" down pat (along with Brown Sugar, et al) , but it was difficult on the fingers. Learning all that Stones music in Std tuning actually made me a better guitarist but I didn't find the open tunings till much later. lol

Watching B. Raiit and Johnny Lee Schell tour in the 80's I pick up the open G tuning, but i love that low D string, no need to remove it! Leo Kottke showed me the open D and DADGAD one crazy night in a Holiday Inn in the late 70's in middle of nowhere. What is interesting from that night with Leo is that my friend taught him to juggle, we stayed up till the birds were singing and the sun shining. When we saw him juggling on the cover of one of his next records, he (we) were proud as peacocks. peace.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: December 19, 2011 19:00

I've always thought that the whole point of the original SFTD solo was that it was spikey, edgy, unsettling and uncomfortable to listen to.

it's nasty...and it works.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-12-19 19:03 by Spud.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Sacke ()
Date: December 19, 2011 22:39

Quote
Spud
I've always thought that the whole point of the original SFTD solo was that it was spikey, edgy, unsettling and uncomfortable to listen to.

it's nasty...and it works.

Most of Keith's solos were unsettling and uncomfortable to listen to eye rolling smiley
The whole point is why the original SFTD solo was also spikey and edgy...

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bestfour ()
Date: September 21, 2012 00:36

Quote
stonesdan60
Was it actually Keith who played the guitar solo on the studio version of Sympathy? I've heard rumours it wasn't. To me, the bulk of the licks sound like Keith, but that lightening fast opening lick is pretty flashy compared to most of keith's licks. Sometimes I get suspicious because I've never heard - either in person or on bootlegs - Keith ever attempt to start that solo onstage with anything resembling that studio lick, even when he was at his best. Ever since Ya Yas, he's always chosen an utterly different path to starting his Sympathy solos. I've seen clips of the film that shows them recording Sympathy, but I've never seen footage of the solo being recorded. Is there film of Keith recording that phenomenal solo?

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bestfour ()
Date: September 21, 2012 00:37

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Palace Revolution 2000
I believe it is Keith, but I too have had my doubts; mainly because Keith loves talking about his accomplishments, but I have never read him bragging on that solo.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bestfour ()
Date: September 21, 2012 00:42

Quote
Silver Dagger
I never heard him play another solo like that which is why I always believed the rumour that it was Dave Mason from Traffic. This is a real Jimmy Page like guitar hero solo, something like the solo at the end of Stairway To Heaven. Keith wasn't/isn't that kind of player.

Please note "Koen" this is just what I was talking about, thanks to "Green Lady" she found the thread I was talking about ..... BUT I KNOW IT IS KEITH PLAYING drinking smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bestfour ()
Date: September 21, 2012 00:43

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stonesdan60
Quote
Silver Dagger
I never heard him play another solo like that which is why I always believed the rumour that it was Dave Mason from Traffic. This is a real Jimmy Page like guitar hero solo, something like the solo at the end of Stairway To Heaven. Keith wasn't/isn't that kind of player.

One thing that made me suspicious is that I was aware that Dave Mason participated in the Banquet sessions. Later on, I heard a Dave Mason song (forget what it was), and when he launched into the solo, the sound and many of the licks sounded so similar to the Sympathy solo, I thought, "Oh my God! was it really him?

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: bestfour ()
Date: September 21, 2012 00:45

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Silver Dagger
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DandelionPowderman
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Silver Dagger
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His Majesty
Keith plays some licks that would appear on the solo in the film One Plus One when he's messing about inbetween takes.

Yes it is Keith and the sound isn't that unusual in the context of 1967 - 1968, he used a similar sound for lead lines on The Lantern and Stray Cat Blues. Quit similar to Macca's Sgt Pepper lead guitar sound.

The amp used was most likley the Vox Supreme, all solid state, they used them(not exclusivley of course) from 1967 European Tour until some time in 1969(you can see one in photos taken at Redlands Spring 1969).

I did some clips of a 1967 Vox Supreme I used to own with a Gibson Les Paul Custom. I played the sympathy solo in the part titled(Vox Surpreme b), take a listen here:

www.myspace.com/voxsupreme


How can you catogorically say it was Keith? Were you there? I bow down to your great knowledge of instruments and musicianship but I don't think anyone has ever confirmed it was Keith.

Who else could it be. Some session guy borrowing Keith's guitar and amp?

We weren't there, but the solo sounds very much like Keith to my ears. The sound is a bit unusual and thinner, but like His Majesty says, it is a bit similar to Stray Cat Blues and The Lantern (and also All Sold Out and Citadel, imo).

It could easily be Dave Mason. Listen to the tone of his solo in Dear Mr Fantasy. Very similar. And it was Jimmy Miller who produced both of them.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Title5Take1 ()
Date: September 21, 2012 09:06

YouTube "guitar part" videos are a cheat when the guitarist plays along with the record. Of course it'll sound pretty good, the Rolling Stones are playing in the background!

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: seitan ()
Date: September 21, 2012 09:53

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bestfour
Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
His Majesty
Keith plays some licks that would appear on the solo in the film One Plus One when he's messing about inbetween takes.

Yes it is Keith and the sound isn't that unusual in the context of 1967 - 1968, he used a similar sound for lead lines on The Lantern and Stray Cat Blues. Quit similar to Macca's Sgt Pepper lead guitar sound.

The amp used was most likley the Vox Supreme, all solid state, they used them(not exclusivley of course) from 1967 European Tour until some time in 1969(you can see one in photos taken at Redlands Spring 1969).

I did some clips of a 1967 Vox Supreme I used to own with a Gibson Les Paul Custom. I played the sympathy solo in the part titled(Vox Surpreme b), take a listen here:

www.myspace.com/voxsupreme


How can you catogorically say it was Keith? Were you there? I bow down to your great knowledge of instruments and musicianship but I don't think anyone has ever confirmed it was Keith.

Who else could it be. Some session guy borrowing Keith's guitar and amp?

We weren't there, but the solo sounds very much like Keith to my ears. The sound is a bit unusual and thinner, but like His Majesty says, it is a bit similar to Stray Cat Blues and The Lantern (and also All Sold Out and Citadel, imo).

It could easily be Dave Mason. Listen to the tone of his solo in Dear Mr Fantasy. Very similar. And it was Jimmy Miller who produced both of them.

Check out the old Hyde Park concert footage, the first gig with Mick Taylor...Keith's lead guitar sound on "Sympathy" is same as on the studio version of the song. I was just watching the Hyde Park show and when they played Sympathy, I realised that yeah, it's Keith allright playing the solo. The sound on the stage is the same as on the album.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 21, 2012 10:33

The sound is very different.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: September 21, 2012 11:26

The studio solo is of course Keith. The solo is inspired by Dear Mr Fantasy but still it's Keith all over. Simple but with a great sound and sharp phrasing.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: September 21, 2012 12:51

Here's Dear Mr Fantasy (which predates Sympathy) for comparison purposes. Now I don't believe it is anyone but Keith playing the solo, but there are certainly resemblances, not only in the solo but in the rest of the song. Set Mr Fantasy to a samba beat, and...




Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: September 21, 2012 13:16

Technical more accomplished players like Mason would never play the way Keith played on the original studio version.

IMO, Mason's style is nothing like Keith's, even if the SFTD-solo isn't a typical Keith-solo.

Green Lady's clip of Dr. Mr. Fantasy shows a guitarist with a broader and more varied register when it comes to solo playing than that of Keith.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 21, 2012 13:17

Mason doesn't play guitar on Dear Mr Fantasy.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: September 21, 2012 13:31

Quote
His Majesty
Mason doesn't play guitar on Dear Mr Fantasy.

Winwood, sorry...

As far as I know, he's never been "accused" of doing the SFTD-solo winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-09-21 13:31 by DandelionPowderman.

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