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Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: OpenG ()
Date: November 4, 2016 16:16

If you watch the Goddard DVD - Keith is standing in front of his amp with his black LP and playing great creamy licks that are awesome and you wonder why he rarely played like that throughout his career.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 4, 2016 16:17

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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
I reckon you mean the 1988 Winos-shows? I think something happened after 1990. It might have been the arthrithis kicking in. Anyways, he changed his lead guitar-style. It was very noticable on the B2B-tour that he focused on fewer notes and repeating stuff, instead of exploring new things, like he actually did on the SW/UJ tours.

I reckon it was more of an artistic choice? I'll take the accurate and controlled SFTD solo from St Louis '97 over the sloppy and messy solos he played on that song in '89 and '90 anyday. He probably could have played just as fast in 1997 but maybe maybe chose not to and focused more on accuracy and tastefulness.

I don't disagree with the SFTD-example, but I was thinking more on his playing in general. All of a sudden, it seemed there was stuff he just couldn't do anymore (you could hear him trying now and again) - hence he started to land on notes, taking «breaks» in the middle of solos, instead of keep on playing. Unfortunately, it wasn't always the root note he was landing on smiling smiley

Something definitely happened. Going from Mesas to Twins, and chosing a cleaner sound (except for some tunes in 94/95: Satisfaction ie) might have affected his style a bit, though.

He was just so on with his attack (Sad Sad Sad, Bitch, Rock And A Hard Place, SFTD, Almost Hear You Sigh, 2000 Light Years From Home) in 1989/90, and gradually that attack (and not least his timing) waned, imo.

That doesn't mean he still played great stuff, he did. He still does, if one cares to listen. The licks at the end of Sister Morphine on Fonda is like: «Wow, you still got it, why don't you do that more often?» smiling smiley

Interesting, he was good in 89/90 no doubt but he often overplayed I think, like here: SFTD Dallas 1989. Often he's off time with his licks, many bends are sharp and he misses many notes. Some of those licks he could play faster in 1997.

Do you have any examples of the landing on notes and failing to play old licks during the BTB-tour? I kind of think I now what you're talking about, maybe I remember it from the Chicago opening night gig 1997.

The thing that happens in the ending here would appear in most of this solos later on.





[www.youtube.com]

Can't see what so wrong about resting on the major sixth over an E major chord progression? It would obviously sound a bit unsatisfying if he ended the solo on that note but here's he's just building tension for the end of the solo. To my ears at least it sounds great. smiling smiley

Well, I can't stand it smiling smiley And when he's increasingly doing that - well... It's supposed to be the next to last note - not the last winking smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 4, 2016 16:56

It sounds awful, that's why!

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 4, 2016 16:59

Quote
GasLightStreet
It sounds awful, that's why!

LOl yeah

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: November 4, 2016 17:26

Maybe its an ongoing protest against the percussion loop >grinning smiley<

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 4, 2016 21:17

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DandelionPowderman
Quote
RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
I reckon you mean the 1988 Winos-shows? I think something happened after 1990. It might have been the arthrithis kicking in. Anyways, he changed his lead guitar-style. It was very noticable on the B2B-tour that he focused on fewer notes and repeating stuff, instead of exploring new things, like he actually did on the SW/UJ tours.

I reckon it was more of an artistic choice? I'll take the accurate and controlled SFTD solo from St Louis '97 over the sloppy and messy solos he played on that song in '89 and '90 anyday. He probably could have played just as fast in 1997 but maybe maybe chose not to and focused more on accuracy and tastefulness.

I don't disagree with the SFTD-example, but I was thinking more on his playing in general. All of a sudden, it seemed there was stuff he just couldn't do anymore (you could hear him trying now and again) - hence he started to land on notes, taking «breaks» in the middle of solos, instead of keep on playing. Unfortunately, it wasn't always the root note he was landing on smiling smiley

Something definitely happened. Going from Mesas to Twins, and chosing a cleaner sound (except for some tunes in 94/95: Satisfaction ie) might have affected his style a bit, though.

He was just so on with his attack (Sad Sad Sad, Bitch, Rock And A Hard Place, SFTD, Almost Hear You Sigh, 2000 Light Years From Home) in 1989/90, and gradually that attack (and not least his timing) waned, imo.

That doesn't mean he still played great stuff, he did. He still does, if one cares to listen. The licks at the end of Sister Morphine on Fonda is like: «Wow, you still got it, why don't you do that more often?» smiling smiley

Interesting, he was good in 89/90 no doubt but he often overplayed I think, like here: SFTD Dallas 1989. Often he's off time with his licks, many bends are sharp and he misses many notes. Some of those licks he could play faster in 1997.

Do you have any examples of the landing on notes and failing to play old licks during the BTB-tour? I kind of think I now what you're talking about, maybe I remember it from the Chicago opening night gig 1997.

The thing that happens in the ending here would appear in most of this solos later on.





[www.youtube.com]

Can't see what so wrong about resting on the major sixth over an E major chord progression? It would obviously sound a bit unsatisfying if he ended the solo on that note but here's he's just building tension for the end of the solo. To my ears at least it sounds great. smiling smiley

Well, I can't stand it smiling smiley And when he's increasingly doing that - well... It's supposed to be the next to last note - not the last winking smiley

To me it doesn't sound like the solo is 'over'. In other words, the clip ends before the solo. So I think he was still going to land somewhere else.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 4, 2016 21:52

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Palace Revolution 2000
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
Quote
RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
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RaiseTheKnife
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DandelionPowderman
I reckon you mean the 1988 Winos-shows? I think something happened after 1990. It might have been the arthrithis kicking in. Anyways, he changed his lead guitar-style. It was very noticable on the B2B-tour that he focused on fewer notes and repeating stuff, instead of exploring new things, like he actually did on the SW/UJ tours.

I reckon it was more of an artistic choice? I'll take the accurate and controlled SFTD solo from St Louis '97 over the sloppy and messy solos he played on that song in '89 and '90 anyday. He probably could have played just as fast in 1997 but maybe maybe chose not to and focused more on accuracy and tastefulness.

I don't disagree with the SFTD-example, but I was thinking more on his playing in general. All of a sudden, it seemed there was stuff he just couldn't do anymore (you could hear him trying now and again) - hence he started to land on notes, taking «breaks» in the middle of solos, instead of keep on playing. Unfortunately, it wasn't always the root note he was landing on smiling smiley

Something definitely happened. Going from Mesas to Twins, and chosing a cleaner sound (except for some tunes in 94/95: Satisfaction ie) might have affected his style a bit, though.

He was just so on with his attack (Sad Sad Sad, Bitch, Rock And A Hard Place, SFTD, Almost Hear You Sigh, 2000 Light Years From Home) in 1989/90, and gradually that attack (and not least his timing) waned, imo.

That doesn't mean he still played great stuff, he did. He still does, if one cares to listen. The licks at the end of Sister Morphine on Fonda is like: «Wow, you still got it, why don't you do that more often?» smiling smiley

Interesting, he was good in 89/90 no doubt but he often overplayed I think, like here: SFTD Dallas 1989. Often he's off time with his licks, many bends are sharp and he misses many notes. Some of those licks he could play faster in 1997.

Do you have any examples of the landing on notes and failing to play old licks during the BTB-tour? I kind of think I now what you're talking about, maybe I remember it from the Chicago opening night gig 1997.

The thing that happens in the ending here would appear in most of this solos later on.





[www.youtube.com]

Can't see what so wrong about resting on the major sixth over an E major chord progression? It would obviously sound a bit unsatisfying if he ended the solo on that note but here's he's just building tension for the end of the solo. To my ears at least it sounds great. smiling smiley

Well, I can't stand it smiling smiley And when he's increasingly doing that - well... It's supposed to be the next to last note - not the last winking smiley

To me it doesn't sound like the solo is 'over'. In other words, the clip ends before the solo. So I think he was still going to land somewhere else.

Exactly. But the solo wasn't over. He was just stopping it. It was a sign of what to come in the following years. I think it was the arthritis..

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 4, 2016 22:07

I think so too and also because he wants to make sure hes on the right fret. What with the lights the sounds and Mick moving around.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: RaiseTheKnife ()
Date: November 4, 2016 22:35

Keith's isn't doing anything against the rules here. He's playing a major pentatonic over a major chord progression. Listening to the whole solo it's for me very evident that Keith is planing his choice of notes moments before he plays, not at all a case of having to rest his fingers.

Some might think it's a dissonant interval to rest on, but I think it's sounds cool. We are so used to hearing songs where everything lands on the rote, therefore we might react in a negative way when our expectations are not fulfilled.

To compare let's say 300 years ago, people would probably have hated the sound of a minor pentatonic scale over major chords, today blues and rock musicians play it ALL the time, and we think it sounds great since we're so used to it.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 4, 2016 22:52

Sometimes Keith wants to convey what's in his head with odd body movements (arms flailing, legs kicking, etc.) rather than actually playing the guitar. He might actually think we're "hearing" what he's hearing in his head, but it's actually like a bizarre game of charades. You can't act out guitar notes though, so what we see is a bunch of posing, while all we hear is a bunch of empty space.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: whitem8 ()
Date: November 5, 2016 03:03

Of course its Keef! Man, it is his purely distinctive tone that masters the solo more than technique. My film also shows him doing the solo. . .

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: November 5, 2016 10:47

Quote
RaiseTheKnife
Keith's isn't doing anything against the rules here. He's playing a major pentatonic over a major chord progression. Listening to the whole solo it's for me very evident that Keith is planing his choice of notes moments before he plays, not at all a case of having to rest his fingers.

Some might think it's a dissonant interval to rest on, but I think it's sounds cool. We are so used to hearing songs where everything lands on the rote, therefore we might react in a negative way when our expectations are not fulfilled.

To compare let's say 300 years ago, people would probably have hated the sound of a minor pentatonic scale over major chords, today blues and rock musicians play it ALL the time, and we think it sounds great since we're so used to it.

thumbs up

There are plenty of folks today, let alone 300 years ago, who still can't get their heads around a simple quarter tone "blues curl" winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-05 11:01 by Spud.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 5, 2016 11:04

Quote
RaiseTheKnife


To compare let's say 300 years ago, people would probably have hated the sound of a minor pentatonic scale over major chords, today blues and rock musicians play it ALL the time, and we think it sounds great since we're so used to it.



It was popular in English renaissance music played on the Lute in the streets over 300 years ago already.

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Date: November 5, 2016 11:56

Quote
Hairball
Sometimes Keith wants to convey what's in his head with odd body movements (arms flailing, legs kicking, etc.) rather than actually playing the guitar. He might actually think we're "hearing" what he's hearing in his head, but it's actually like a bizarre game of charades. You can't act out guitar notes though, so what we see is a bunch of posing, while all we hear is a bunch of empty space.

Very well said; and I bet that is true at times (and also would have a lot to do with someone's dis-satisfaction when only hearing the song through audio), but it is also giving Keith a lot of credit.
I think Dandy is right that, for whatever reasons, Keith sure takes a lot of breaks in his solos.
I like to also think that as he has grown older, he has also grown wiser, and certain notes might take some deliberation

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 5, 2016 12:15

Quote
Hairball
Sometimes Keith wants to convey what's in his head with odd body movements (arms flailing, legs kicking, etc.) rather than actually playing the guitar. He might actually think we're "hearing" what he's hearing in his head, but it's actually like a bizarre game of charades. You can't act out guitar notes though, so what we see is a bunch of posing, while all we hear is a bunch of empty space.

grinning smiley

Re: Sympathy For The Devil Guitar Solo
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: November 6, 2016 14:49

I actually think that note sounds great when he lands on c-sharp instead of e. Keith used it a lot when he played the c major scale on the studio version of YCAGWYW.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-06 14:54 by MonkeyMan2000.

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