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Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: keithsman ()
Date: April 14, 2018 23:13

Quote
Doxa
Quote
keithsman


My point is why, why would Mick reject keith's music and sound, is this what's holding up the new album.

Simply because if it is a question being inspired, one cannot force that (creativity, that is). If Keith's songs doesn't make Mick click, that is, he feels like there is no point in trying, knowing that he can't come up with anything worthwile with them, we have to live with it. I think that "When I Call Your Name" can be an indication of that. Jagger doesn't sound being very related to the atmosphere or sentiments of the song. I can pretty easily see Jagger soon going 'forget it. Doesn't work. The next one please'.

I don't see either Jagger doing very well with similar songs like "Make NO Mistake" and "Hate It When You Leave". Just not Jagger's cup of tea.

- Doxa

Yes i think you are right, it's as if Mick has gone down that road so many times he doesn't want to go there any more. The problem is that Mick and Keith need each other creatively, they are the only people on this earth capable of taking each others music to greater heights, it's a pity they don't inspire each other anymore.

A compromise is in order, they have reached stalemate, like some sort of Mexican stand off, i think this has been brewing since these 2002 sessions, possibly as far back as Bridges To Babylon. If they could humour each others musical direction enough go along and give 100 percent of themselves to each others songs, happy in the knowledge that half the album will consist of their own songs, but also helping out on each others at the same time it could work, the way it use to work.

Going through the pages of iorr in recent years we begin to notice more recent Stones albums consist of Mick or Keith's songs, not Mick and Keith's songs.


The only thing i don't understand is this, if Mick has fallen out of love with the Stones old tried and tested demographic, where does that leave him, what is a 75 year old man to do, is it a bit late in life to look for new avenues, why not make a solo album, why go in the studio with Keith if he doesn't inspire him, what did he expect from Keith ??

I actually think Keith ventured into some surprisingly exiting styles himself on Crosseyed Heart with tracks like Amnesia, Something For nothing and Substantial Damage. They sound fresh and new, although obviously not, but it comes across that way from Keith.

I look forward to a Mick solo album now because i am very intrigued as to what music does inspire him now, i have a hunch he has backed himself into a corner, Mick could even be uninspired by his own gifts musically, even bored with his own demos.
Is it surprising after a 13+ year drought, that this long break in creativity could be misconstrued as writers block. It's not being horrible, its a strong probability.

Edit.
Something curious about Mick, he doesn't appear to be uninspired with this music when it comes to playing it live, he's very reluctant to try out new things, or even sing old songs differently, instead he's happy to play pretty much 16 or 17 of the sames songs every night.
This doesn't go along with the idea that Mick is uninspired by Keith's contribution to the Stones sound or songs played.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-14 23:39 by keithsman.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 14, 2018 23:20

Quote
MrEcho
Who plays bass on the leaked songs? Don Was? Mick addresses him by name at one point.

The bass mostly just does the root notes here. Pity Bill wasn't there. The part of Mick addressing Don Was escaped me. In that case, funny that Darryl wasn't there.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 14, 2018 23:50

Quote
Doxa
Unfortunately Jagger doesn't sound too inspired. Yeah, it is a work in process for sure, him just trying different sounds and melody ideas, so no point to judge harshly. But still to my ears it ends up him just autopilot-like re-cicling his (then) current vocal cliches, tricks and manouvres (pretty clearly to be manifested in GODDESS and ALFIE albums). And none of them seem to work here. Anyway, if anything else, it is an educational showcase of Jagger's vocal technique of those days..

Jagger semms to be more interested in also acting the songs in recent decades than he was earlier. Much of his overdone singing and vocal posing on the leaked tracks sounds to me as if he's trying to find a voice or character to impersonate in the respective songs. Of course he has his clichés, like, say, de Niro pulls the same tricks over and over. To me, he comes across better if the acting part isn't overdone. Like, itÄs clearly there e.g. in Melody but there it supports the singing instead of distracting from it.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: TeddyB1018 ()
Date: April 15, 2018 03:12

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
MrEcho
Who plays bass on the leaked songs? Don Was? Mick addresses him by name at one point.

The bass mostly just does the root notes here. Pity Bill wasn't there. The part of Mick addressing Don Was escaped me. In that case, funny that Darryl wasn't there.

I don’t know who is playing bass on the 2002 Sessions. When I saw the Stones tracking at Ocean Way in ‘97 there was no one playing bass. Don stayed in the control room. It wouldn’t make much sense for them to have overdubbed bass on the 2002 tracks though, so someone must have been playing.

Keith has said several times over the past years that his job is to “turn Mick on.” This has obviously become more and more difficult. Maybe he enjoyed cutting Blue and Lonesome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 06:30 by TeddyB1018.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 15, 2018 05:48

You hear somebody plucking away on a bass e.g. in the long banter before the 2nd version of proto-Trouble, there was certainly a bass player in situ. I hear two guitars, a bass, Chuck's keyboard and the drums. Like what one would expect with 4 Stones + Chuck + Darryl in the Studio recording live. On Dreams and Love Is A Test there are two electric guitars and the acoustic in addition. If the acoustic wasn't overdubbed, one of the guitar players must have been Mick (or an unknown guest). U Don't Wanna puzzles me a bit, there seem to be 3 electrics and one acoustic, in the intro they are all playing at the same time.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 15, 2018 09:20

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
MrEcho
Who plays bass on the leaked songs? Don Was? Mick addresses him by name at one point.

The bass mostly just does the root notes here. Pity Bill wasn't there. The part of Mick addressing Don Was escaped me. In that case, funny that Darryl wasn't there.

He addressed Don once to play the tape, so Keith could hear his own intro.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 15, 2018 09:23

Quote
doitywoik
You hear somebody plucking away on a bass e.g. in the long banter before the 2nd version of proto-Trouble, there was certainly a bass player in situ. I hear two guitars, a bass, Chuck's keyboard and the drums. Like what one would expect with 4 Stones + Chuck + Darryl in the Studio recording live. On Dreams and Love Is A Test there are two electric guitars and the acoustic in addition. If the acoustic wasn't overdubbed, one of the guitar players must have been Mick (or an unknown guest). U Don't Wanna puzzles me a bit, there seem to be 3 electrics and one acoustic, in the intro they are all playing at the same time.

The acoustic might have been recorded before the session (Mick demo).

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: April 15, 2018 13:19

Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

****** Rod - love the missus, the Stones, Springsteen, Travel, NYC, Cars and Apple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 13:37 by bitusa2012.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: mtaylor ()
Date: April 15, 2018 13:51

To be honest - fairly boring / uninspiring songs.
Maybe the reason they were never published.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 15, 2018 14:09

Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

We knew some of the titles. And we knew Trouble was called Just Because.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 15, 2018 16:12

Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

The last two appear to be lifted from the official releases, hence the difference in sound.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 15, 2018 17:12

Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions?

Well, we know that the sessions when Just Before/Becaue were recorded must have taken place prior to the release of Keith's CH, where the song appears reworked as Trouble. For the rest we have to trust the anonymous benefactor/informants, one way or other.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: April 16, 2018 14:52

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

We knew some of the titles. And we knew Trouble was called Just Because.

because the person close to the band who circulated them four years ago said they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 14:53 by Gazza.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 15:17

Quote
Gazza
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

We knew some of the titles. And we knew Trouble was called Just Because.

because the person close to the band who circulated them four years ago said they are.

Indeed + that Teddy here (as well as some other friends of mine) had heard these tapes/had them in their posession.

Trouble was called «Just Because» back then, though, not «Just Before» or «Because» smiling smiley

Was Smooth 180 also leaked to the public earlier, or is my memory playing tricks on me?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 15:19 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: April 16, 2018 15:28

Has anyone created a cover for this album and if so, can they post it please.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: April 16, 2018 15:33

Quote
Gazza
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

We knew some of the titles. And we knew Trouble was called Just Because.

because the person close to the band who circulated them four years ago said they are.

And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?


Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 15:40

Quote
TooTough
Quote
Gazza
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
bitusa2012
Whilst I LOVE having "new" Stones music, and really don't doubt it, how do we actually know these songs ARE the 2002 sessions? The reason I ask is that, acknowledging the last two songs as released on Licks have been fully polished and finished, they sound SO different to the other tracks. The drum sounds are just polar opposites. In the two Licks songs Charlie sounds like he's hitting a cardboard box. On the remaining roughly polished songs, especially Cried Out and Dreams and even U Don't Wanna, the drum sounds, as well as the guitar and keyboard sounds are just beautiful and crisp, upfront and a highlight. The sound of the two batches of songs, the Licks ones and the "new" ones, to me is chalk and cheese. Yet, from the same sessions and studio???

If the Licks songs sounds ARE a result of Don Was production, keep him away from anything new The Stones may be creating. Please.

We knew some of the titles. And we knew Trouble was called Just Because.

because the person close to the band who circulated them four years ago said they are.

And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 15:53

Quote
Silver Dagger
Has anyone created a cover for this album and if so, can they post it please.

It's here, Mike. Scroll down.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: April 16, 2018 16:00

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop


Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 16:02

Quote
TooTough
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop

Yeah, I remember now. Thanks thumbs up

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: April 16, 2018 16:14

Quote
TooTough
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop

Maybe the Secret Service can help:




Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: April 16, 2018 16:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop

Yeah, I remember now. Thanks thumbs up

The tried out the track Still In Love between 1979 and 2002 - 23 years. In 1982 it was known as Run And Take. There are six or seven different versions known.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 16:28

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop

Yeah, I remember now. Thanks thumbs up

The tried out the track Still In Love between 1979 and 2002 - 23 years. In 1982 it was known as Run And Take. There are six or seven different versions known.

But here it's «Still In My...». A different song, methinks.

On the other side we can read ...«my head».

Still In My Head?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-16 16:29 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Monsoon Ragoon ()
Date: April 16, 2018 16:34

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TooTough
And isn´t there a PC screen in the studio scenes where you can read some titles?

On the Four Flicks-DVD?

Yes, Tip Of The Tongue...
not really informative...



left:
[...] Me
[...] Trac[k]
...
[Losing] my T[ouch] ?
[Still In My/Stealing] My H[eart]
[...] & Me



right:

35 Still In My [Heart]? --> Stealing My Heart?
36 I Only Found Out Yesterday
37 Still In ...[recut]
38 Don´t Stop

Yeah, I remember now. Thanks thumbs up

The tried out the track Still In Love between 1979 and 2002 - 23 years. In 1982 it was known as Run And Take. There are six or seven different versions known.

But here it's «Still In My...». A different song, methinks.

On the other side we can read ...«my head».

Still In My Head?

I didn't notice that. Okay then probably a different embryonic song; Still In Love was buried in 1982 ;-)

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 16, 2018 18:14

Quote
Silver Dagger
Has anyone created a cover for this album and if so, can they post it please.

Here ya go.

Quote
rogerriffin
Many many thanks to all involved!!!
Laugh i nearly died early take!!!




Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: alexander paul ()
Date: April 16, 2018 23:12

Is 37 at the screen not Still in love? (See also website of Nico Zentgraf of 2002)?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 16, 2018 23:29

Quote
alexander paul
Is 37 at the screen not Still in love? (See also website of Nico Zentgraf of 2002)?

Looks like Still In My... (recut)

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: alexander paul ()
Date: April 16, 2018 23:35

No, not 35 but 37.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 17, 2018 00:05

Quote
alexander paul
No, not 35 but 37.

I meant 37. It has "recut" after the title. Most likely a new take on #35, which is called "Still In My..."

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: April 17, 2018 00:15

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
alexander paul
No, not 35 but 37.

I meant 37. It has "recut" after the title. Most likely a new take on #35, which is called "Still In My..."

Can you post a link? Or do I have to zip something again. I deleted the first time I downloaded the songs.
Thank you,
35/37 Still in Love (I hear Luther Vandross, will the 80’s ever leave me? Yes I saw Luther Vandross Circle Star theater sing ‘Still in love....

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