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Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 14:21

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Really good very Stonesy stuff. This exactly should be a new album. Up the audio a bit, some words.
But e.g I can hear "Just Before" turn into "Let you down slow".
"Dreams" which at this stage has a great 70's ballad charm. But I fear they would turn it into "Sweethearts Together".
"Cried Out" - hm, it's good, but Jagger does this in his sleep by now.
I actually like the unfinished-ness of "Love is a test". It wants to go over into the "Already over me" territory
Another thing that is interesting is just how many tricks they know; e.g. that stop in "Call out your name" that is a classic stop.
"U dont wanna' IMO sounds like "Doom & Gloom" precursor
I'm over thinking this. It sounds great. Love it.

Not Trouble??

Not so much. ""Trouble" seems obviously the one with Jagger and Keith talking about the intro etc beforehand. I think 'Because'.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: April 12, 2018 14:22

Add Extreme Western Grip and Well Well and you got a nice album.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 14:28

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Really good very Stonesy stuff. This exactly should be a new album. Up the audio a bit, some words.
But e.g I can hear "Just Before" turn into "Let you down slow".
"Dreams" which at this stage has a great 70's ballad charm. But I fear they would turn it into "Sweethearts Together".
"Cried Out" - hm, it's good, but Jagger does this in his sleep by now.
I actually like the unfinished-ness of "Love is a test". It wants to go over into the "Already over me" territory
Another thing that is interesting is just how many tricks they know; e.g. that stop in "Call out your name" that is a classic stop.
"U dont wanna' IMO sounds like "Doom & Gloom" precursor
I'm over thinking this. It sounds great. Love it.

Not Trouble??

Not so much. ""Trouble" seems obviously the one with Jagger and Keith talking about the intro etc beforehand. I think 'Because'.

I think we're talking past eachother here? «Just Before» (Just Because is correct) and Because are the same tune, which became Keith's «Trouble». Keith made a new intro and skipped the A minor-part for his solo album. Apart from that (and new lyrics) the songs are identical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-12 14:28 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: shortfatfanny ()
Date: April 12, 2018 14:37

U don't wanna ... grabbed me immediately...


Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 14:51

Quote
shortfatfanny
U don't wanna ... grabbed me immediately...

Dreams was the tune that immediately caught my attention, but You Don't Wanna is great as well thumbs up

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 12, 2018 15:02

Quote
Bjorn
Well. they sure didn´t leak into my house...guess I´ll have to wait for the youtube-version...

If you're using Mozilla Firebird and it doesn't work, try a different browser. My Firefox just took me to an empty page - panic, horror, have I missed it? eye popping smiley - then other IORRians said the link's still active, and I tried with my old Opera and suddenly it worked.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: rbk ()
Date: April 12, 2018 15:21

Sonically it's superb. A wide, clean and deep stereo presentation as opposed to the flat, lifeless, ProTools atrocity that was "A Bigger Bang" a few years later. I read that ABB was a cut and paste job assembled at Jagger's house rather than a proper studio. What we may have with these outtakes is the last time the Stones recorded as an band until "Blue and Lonesome."

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:01

I enjoy them, of course, but the most finished are the two that saw release - the two Mick and Matt brought to the band as polished demos. The others are embryonic songs. I hear potential, but apart from recognizing an early "Laugh, I Nearly Died" (which Nico had tipped us off to presumably when he first heard the tapes) and an early version of "Trouble," everything else falls into the category of "I enjoy listening to the band working through the creative process" and that's a mark of a diehard fan since others would say, "It's unfinished" and walk away. Unless we hear some of these tunes all grown up on the new album, they'll likely remain just tantalizing ideas of where they were at creatively 16 years ago.

Upon reflection, it makes sense. Mick and Matt had three finished tunes. Keith got his tune together. The rest were riffs that they spent some time working out. Since there was a good vibe, Keith and Ronnie were excited at the prospect of finishing the songs on the road. Mick's statement to the press was they weren't songs, they were just bits of songs. He was no longer interested in spending time developing Keith's ideas. They never went into the studio and after the tour, he was only interested in starting fresh with his own ideas. So they sat and some were cannibalized for Keith's solo album a dozen years later. A sad reality check of what became of Keith's creativity which many (including me) put down to writer's block. He simply lost his partner and was reluctant to produce another commercial disappointment (or worse) as he had with MAIN OFFENDER. This is the most sympathetic I've felt towards Keith since LIFE was published and I saw him in a different light.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-12 16:09 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Deathgod ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:04

Love is a Test is my fave at the moment

Something about the groove and feel just grabs me

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 16:06

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I enjoy them, of course, but the most finished are the two that saw release - the two Mick and Matt brought to the band as polished demos. The others are embryonic songs. I hear potential, but apart from recognizing an early "Laugh, I Nearly Died" (which Nico had tipped us off to presumably when he first heard the tapes) and an early version of "Trouble," everything else falls into the category of "I enjoy listening to the band working through the creative process" and that's a mark of a diehard fan since others would say, "It's unfinished" and walk away. Unless we hear some of these tunes all grown up on the new album, they'll likely remain just tantalizing ideas of where they were at creatively 16 years ago.

I'm not so sure about that, Rocky.

Mick loves those chord sequences, which were also used in Already Over Me.

Apart from those two chords I don't hear any Laugh, I Nearly Died-referances?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:35

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Mick loves those chord sequences, which were also used in Already Over Me.

Indeed the "Already Over Me" reference is more palpable to me...

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:41

Quote
Blueranger
"Lost Licks"

1. Don't Stop*
2. Stealing My Heart*
3. Just Because (Trouble)
4. Cried Out
5. Keys To Your Love*
6. Hurricane#
7. When I Call Your Name
8. Extreme Western Grip+
9. U Don't Wanna
10. Dreams
11. Love Is A Test
12. Well Well+
13. Losing My Touch*

Bonus Tracks:
14. Don't Stop (alternate)
15. Keys To Your Love (alternate)
16. Just Because (alternate)

Can anyone tell if tracks 14,15 (and 13) are really 'bonus' alternate tracks? They sound the exact same as the official versions

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:45

To my ears, they're the takes used, but there are slight edits and mixing differences compared to the official releases. Of course, there are also two slightly different mixes of "Don't Stop" that were released anyway.

Mind you, I think it's obvious "Cried Out" is the embryonic "Laugh, I Nearly Died" and others don't. As always, it's what you hear or don't.

NOTE: Scratch that. I was talking about Tracks 1,5. I haven't heard the other two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-12 16:46 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 16:51

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Blueranger
"Lost Licks"

1. Don't Stop*
2. Stealing My Heart*
3. Just Because (Trouble)
4. Cried Out
5. Keys To Your Love*
6. Hurricane#
7. When I Call Your Name
8. Extreme Western Grip+
9. U Don't Wanna
10. Dreams
11. Love Is A Test
12. Well Well+
13. Losing My Touch*

Bonus Tracks:
14. Don't Stop (alternate)
15. Keys To Your Love (alternate)
16. Just Because (alternate)

Can anyone tell if tracks 14,15 (and 13) are really 'bonus' alternate tracks? They sound the exact same as the official versions

Different mixes, and (at least on Keys To Your Love) slightly different vocals.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: April 12, 2018 16:52

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Blueranger
"Lost Licks"

1. Don't Stop*
2. Stealing My Heart*
3. Just Because (Trouble)
4. Cried Out
5. Keys To Your Love*
6. Hurricane#
7. When I Call Your Name
8. Extreme Western Grip+
9. U Don't Wanna
10. Dreams
11. Love Is A Test
12. Well Well+
13. Losing My Touch*

Bonus Tracks:
14. Don't Stop (alternate)
15. Keys To Your Love (alternate)
16. Just Because (alternate)

Can anyone tell if tracks 14,15 (and 13) are really 'bonus' alternate tracks? They sound the exact same as the official versions

Different mixes, and (at least on Keys To Your Love) slightly different vocals.

cool, i wasn't sure

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: 35love ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:08

Thank you for the link.

I personally remembered my dislike for incomplete, unfinished RS songs after struggling to hear/ understand Mick’s singing/ then realizing the lyrics weren’t written yet.

So it’s a no from me.

(I did hear ‘Laugh, I Nearly Died’ as well during my brief visits on these pieces of music)

Thanks again.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 17:11

Quote
35love
Thank you for the link.

I personally remembered my dislike for incomplete, unfinished RS songs after struggling to hear/ understand Mick’s singing/ then realizing the lyrics weren’t written yet.

So it’s a no from me.

(I did hear ‘Laugh, I Nearly Died’ as well during my brief visits on these pieces of music)

Thanks again.

Most of the lyrics are written and finished here?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:13

I'm with 35love in thinking there's quite a bit of mumbled, nonsensical words that fit musically. More "vowel movements" as they used to call them. He's just getting a feel on most of these. More articulate than Keith's guide vocal on "Soul Survivor" that surfaced for the EXILE reissue, but still not up to the standard of even latter-day rhyming dictionary Mick. Bottom line is there are no cards on the table, it isn't finished.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-12 17:15 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 17:16

Trouble, er, Just Because, has a lot of mumbling. That's true smiling smiley

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:19

Well, I'll wait for lyrics to be posted in the eventual Track Talk for each of these.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:27

Re Trouble:

Keith noted (from timeisonourside.com) "Right where I'm sitting now in my sunroom where I wrote it, it seemed like a real Hank Williams kind of song. But I think Waddy Wachtel pointed out to me that Hank Williams songs - that style of music - can easily be rocked up and moved up. Of course, it could be a rock and roll song! ... So here I'm doing Trouble, and I'm seeing it shifting from like 1949 to like 1958. And yeah, how would the Everlys have handled this? Or Chet Atkins? Or Hank Garland, who is also another guitar player with that kind of style? We just moved it up with the drums. Also, in the back of my mind, I always thought of Trouble in terms of Poor Jenny by the Everly Brothers".

So, one of the two:

The above quote is BS (the Stones' version ain't no Hank Williams), or

Just Before is not an early version of Trouble. Of course there are similarities, but they could be non-intentional. For sure the melody line must be Keith's idea. The credits on CH say K+J

C

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 17:33

Quote
liddas
Re Trouble:

Keith noted (from timeisonourside.com) "Right where I'm sitting now in my sunroom where I wrote it, it seemed like a real Hank Williams kind of song. But I think Waddy Wachtel pointed out to me that Hank Williams songs - that style of music - can easily be rocked up and moved up. Of course, it could be a rock and roll song! ... So here I'm doing Trouble, and I'm seeing it shifting from like 1949 to like 1958. And yeah, how would the Everlys have handled this? Or Chet Atkins? Or Hank Garland, who is also another guitar player with that kind of style? We just moved it up with the drums. Also, in the back of my mind, I always thought of Trouble in terms of Poor Jenny by the Everly Brothers".

So, one of the two:

The above quote is BS (the Stones' version ain't no Hank Williams), or

Just Before is not an early version of Trouble. Of course there are similarities, but they could be non-intentional. For sure the melody line must be Keith's idea. The credits on CH say K+J

C

Or C): He wrote it when he was hanging around with Waddy during the B2B-sessions smiling smiley

The melody line is almost identical.

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:39

Ronnie's guitar work on When I call your name ... STANDING OVATION!!!

C

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:47

Quote
DandelionPowderman

The melody line is almost identical.

It is!

C

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 17:51

Quote
liddas
Ronnie's guitar work on When I call your name ... STANDING OVATION!!!

C

Indeed! Keith and Ronnie's playing during the coda of Dreams also deserves a mention. Beautiful stuff!

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:52

Here's some artwork from the other thread:

Quote
rogerriffin
Many many thanks to all involved!!!
Laugh i nearly died early take!!!




Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:58

When I call your name - is it me or it firmly sits somewhere between Make No Mistake and Hate It When You Leave?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: peoplewitheyes ()
Date: April 12, 2018 18:17

I love the Trouble precursors. 'Because' Jaggs sounds properly fired up, more sincere than on several of the others. It seems like the Stones knew it was worth working on that tune. I wonder how Mick felt when Keith just put it out by himself?

What's the origin-legend behind these coming out? I've kind of followed the thread over on the Hot Stuff thread, but who can dumb it down for me. Somme inside-guy tried to trade for (never stated) rarities, then it just bust loose?

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Date: April 12, 2018 18:20

Quote
peoplewitheyes
I love the Trouble precursors. 'Because' Jaggs sounds properly fired up, more sincere than on several of the others. It seems like the Stones knew it was worth working on that tune. I wonder how Mick felt when Keith just put it out by himself?

What's the origin-legend behind these coming out? I've kind of followed the thread over on the Hot Stuff thread, but who can dumb it down for me. Somme inside-guy tried to trade for (never stated) rarities, then it just bust loose?

He probably thought: «Hey! Ah, but I took Lonely At The Top - I guess it's okay» winking smiley

Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by: Doc ()
Date: April 12, 2018 18:22

Quote
Monsoon Ragoon
Quote
Blueranger
"Lost Licks"

1. Don't Stop*
2. Stealing My Heart*
3. Just Because (Trouble)
4. Cried Out
5. Keys To Your Love*
6. Hurricane#
7. When I Call Your Name
8. Extreme Western Grip+
9. U Don't Wanna
10. Dreams
11. Love Is A Test
12. Well Well+
13. Losing My Touch*

Bonus Tracks:
14. Don't Stop (alternate)
15. Keys To Your Love (alternate)
16. Just Because (alternate)

* from "Forty Licks"
# from "Vintage Vinos"
+ from "Four Flicks"

Would be perfect if including ALL Don't Stop versions :
Early mix
Forty Licks version
Edit version
New Rock Mix
Call out hook

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