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We're talking about the song titles on the screenshot from the Tip of the tongue-docu
...several do...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-17 05:28 by Rip This.
I guess we were all starving for new material
And maybe the Rolling Stones aren't as bad as many people (plenty on this site) think they are
Hard to say, since the songs weren't finished. But they do got potential, imo.
. Just imagine Dreams end up like Blinded By Rainbows and Love Test like biggest Mistake .
Was it in regards to these 2002 sessions that Ron Wood said something to the effect that it is easier for them to start from the scratch than try to finish up some older things.
I can understand that kind of thinking. Usually the early part of process in creativity is that of throwing ideas and trying them freely - with no pressure of trying to make it right or of the final outcome. The latter/finish part is actually the hardest part in the process of creativity - it usually means some damn hard and boring work. And each decision has the pressure of 'getting it right' - you are dealing with the actual outcome and with which you need to live the rest of your life once it is released/published.
So I guess the charm we Stones die-hards here in these free-spirited, loose out-takes and sketches and think there is 'potentiality' would most probably not mean much to the Stones. They probably would hear there just still damn much to do. The actual nasty, hardest part of the process that defines if the track turns out to be a hit or a miss...
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-17 15:14 by Doxa.
I think the schedule prevented the album from happening. It was their 40th anniversary, and 40 Licks was the record company's priority, it seems.
I also think it's Darryl. Before one of the songs, he's doing a little jazzy trick (almost inaudible) that Don Was, Keith or Ronnie never would have done.
Both Dreams and Love Is A Test (especially the latter) could have made good singles, imo, but only together with the up tempo Don't Stop.
They didn't have much time. There were sessions only for three weeks, which began AFTER the tour announcement. If they really had wanted to do an album, they had started earlier, not in the last minute.
Maybe only very few people have/had something rare enough to offer in return in a trade fo this kind of material? If nobody (which I guess means among the hardcore traders) was interested in the material, it could have been torrented or else right away years ago.
Ronnie said something to that effect in "According to the Rolling Stones" (I think), that there was no time because of the impending tour.
The unreleased stuff was certainly not hit single material (although IMHO Don't Stop isn't either) in 2002 but with some more work (and unless over-produced to death) could have made cool album tracks. By today's standards, Angie perhaps wouldn't be hit single material either (too slow, too old-fashioned, etc.).
I believe what makes these tracks so charming to many people (incl. myself) is that the songs as such are there but still in a very basic state without added gimmicks, very reminiscent - to me - of concerts in the 70s when you just had a singer, one or two guitars, organ, bass and drums on stage and that was it, and it worked well. The songs could all be played live the way they are with no additional sound effects or big band needed. (What I also like - I must admit - is the 70s keyboard sound and the Jon-Lord-type organ.) The folks who like the outtakes are perhaps the same folks who would prefer for the Stones to keep things simple on the new album, and more naturally-sounding.
I guess your refer to the little jazzy jam that Chuck and the bass are doing during the banter before the 2nd version of proto-Trouble (track 4). That makes Darryl more likely than anyone else, indeed.
Are you implying they were (willingly) circulated by the band's entourage?
No, just implying that maybe the outtakes are good because the band is still good and can still play some great music!
Pretty sure Chuck had the album info and release date scheduled before his passing. And it's damn enjoyable IMO.....
As for the Stones, they LOVE making the critics eat crow.....over and over and over and over
No they do sound better, just six guys playing together in a room with great natural sound. Also ABB would have sounded better in such a sonic setting.
There was no intention to release an album.
After they announced the Licks tour and confirmed there'd be some new songs on 40 Licks (I think they originally said two songs but they released four), they spent 3-4 weeks in Paris going through about 25-30 songs (in various stages of completeness) that they had before settling on the four that they eventually put out.
There was no need to finish most of the songs (and no time to do so anyway)
I haven't read all through this thread but are people actually querying who plays bass? Darryl plays on the four released songs and is present on the recording sessions shown in 'Four Flicks'. Of course its him on bass.
I can't believe it. I just can't believe that in year 2002 the Stones would care to dedicate their valuable time to organize recording sessions (and involving Chuck and Darryl) just for the pleasure of doing music all together.
VL was published in 94. BtoB in 97. The times for a new one were mature, and I can remember that (at least here on IORR) the rumours were that an album was in the process of being recorded.
C
A new studio album in 2002 was never in the cards, they were touring on the 40th anniversary, a compilation was already a done deal by 2001, Mick said no for a new Stones album also in 2001.
Rumours on IORR? What's new?
Lots of rumours, and very few facts...
Ronnie might have heard more advanced versions of these songs, though
Time would certainly have been ripe for a new album (in the sense that by 2002, the last album was already 5 years old). But releasing a large compilation and a new album (more or less) simultaneously would have been a strange move from a commercial/merchandising point of view.
I understood Ronnie's remarks in such a way that they went into the studio to cut the extra tracks for 40 Licks but ended up with enough material for a full new album (in whatever state of completion the extra-extra material was in the end). He doesn't say that a full new album was a real option, he just sounds (to me) like he regrets there wasn't one.
Of course, as a fan you feel somewhat let down when reading him saying it would have taken very little additional effort.
Same as ever.
You tell us.
True. But the speculation&pondering department is making strong efforts!
well if they were the rumours were dead wrong.
It might have been rumoured that theyd make a new album for the tour BEFORE the sessions took place - because that was standard practice for every new Stones world tour. The tour announcement at the press conference in New York in early May included the confirmation - which surprised pretty much everyone - that there would be a career spanning compilation released for the first time.
They didnt go into the studio until a couple of weeks later and by then it was confirmed that it would be to record some bonus songs for 40 Licks.
Theres no way the Stones would ever start work on a new album in late May for a tour beginning in early September.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 17, 2018 01:13
Quote
35loveQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alexander paul
No, not 35 but 37.
I meant 37. It has "recut" after the title. Most likely a new take on #35, which is called "Still In My..."
Can you post a link? Or do I have to zip something again. I deleted the first time I downloaded the songs.
Thank you,
35/37 Still in Love (I hear Luther Vandross, will the 80’s ever leave me? Yes I saw Luther Vandross Circle Star theater sing ‘Still in love....
We're talking about the song titles on the screenshot from the Tip of the tongue-docu
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: April 17, 2018 05:28
Quote
goingmad
U don't wanna has a lot of potential
...several do...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-17 05:28 by Rip This.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: April 17, 2018 11:23
I edited the beginning and endings, this makes it more enjoyable to play regularly. I wish I could edit the center of Just Because where Mick slows the tempo and says something. This would nearly be a perfect track. Also if some of the repetition in Dreams could be cut out it would be great. Add the 4 official songs after changing their volume to sound like the others and this would make a great CD.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 17, 2018 12:02
Amazing actually how everybody seem to like these recordings. They have been available in tape trading circles for some time, but they were very hard to trade as nobody was interested in 2002 material.
Mathijs
Mathijs
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 17, 2018 12:18
Quote
Mathijs
Amazing actually how everybody seem to like these recordings. They have been available in tape trading circles for some time, but they were very hard to trade as nobody was interested in 2002 material.
Mathijs
I guess we were all starving for new material
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
ChrisL
()
Date: April 17, 2018 12:22
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mathijs
Amazing actually how everybody seem to like these recordings. They have been available in tape trading circles for some time, but they were very hard to trade as nobody was interested in 2002 material.
Mathijs
I guess we were all starving for new material
And maybe the Rolling Stones aren't as bad as many people (plenty on this site) think they are
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 17, 2018 12:36
Quote
ChrisLQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Mathijs
Amazing actually how everybody seem to like these recordings. They have been available in tape trading circles for some time, but they were very hard to trade as nobody was interested in 2002 material.
Mathijs
I guess we were all starving for new material
And maybe the Rolling Stones aren't as bad as many people (plenty on this site) think they are
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: April 17, 2018 13:18
So you think these songs should have been released? I think Mick and Keith were right - not to do so! But what do we know...hehe...
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 17, 2018 13:21
Quote
Bjorn
So you think these songs should have been released? I think Mick and Keith were right - not to do so! But what do we know...hehe...
Hard to say, since the songs weren't finished. But they do got potential, imo.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: April 17, 2018 13:22
Certainly they could be improved. But there's a good foundation in these songs. They could have been great if they were finished. Makes me wonder how much of this stuff they have laying around. Seems they could go into a studio and easily finish off songs like these.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: April 17, 2018 13:53
Sure. And after that we'll get 256 pages of moaning about boring ballads, uninspired Jagger's singing, re-circled cliches, and overproduced masteringQuote
frankotero
Certainly they could be improved. But there's a good foundation in these songs. They could have been great if they were finished. Makes me wonder how much of this stuff they have laying around. Seems they could go into a studio and easily finish off songs like these.
. Just imagine Dreams end up like Blinded By Rainbows and Love Test like biggest Mistake .Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 17, 2018 15:09
Quote
frankotero
Certainly they could be improved. But there's a good foundation in these songs. They could have been great if they were finished. Makes me wonder how much of this stuff they have laying around. Seems they could go into a studio and easily finish off songs like these.
Was it in regards to these 2002 sessions that Ron Wood said something to the effect that it is easier for them to start from the scratch than try to finish up some older things.
I can understand that kind of thinking. Usually the early part of process in creativity is that of throwing ideas and trying them freely - with no pressure of trying to make it right or of the final outcome. The latter/finish part is actually the hardest part in the process of creativity - it usually means some damn hard and boring work. And each decision has the pressure of 'getting it right' - you are dealing with the actual outcome and with which you need to live the rest of your life once it is released/published.
So I guess the charm we Stones die-hards here in these free-spirited, loose out-takes and sketches and think there is 'potentiality' would most probably not mean much to the Stones. They probably would hear there just still damn much to do. The actual nasty, hardest part of the process that defines if the track turns out to be a hit or a miss...
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-17 15:14 by Doxa.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 17, 2018 15:31
Been listening to these sessions quite a lot in the past days.
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
C
p.s. Me thinks Mr. Jones is on bass
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
C
p.s. Me thinks Mr. Jones is on bass
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 17, 2018 15:38
Quote
liddas
Been listening to these sessions quite a lot in the past days.
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
C
p.s. Me thinks Mr. Jones is on bass
I think the schedule prevented the album from happening. It was their 40th anniversary, and 40 Licks was the record company's priority, it seems.
I also think it's Darryl. Before one of the songs, he's doing a little jazzy trick (almost inaudible) that Don Was, Keith or Ronnie never would have done.
Both Dreams and Love Is A Test (especially the latter) could have made good singles, imo, but only together with the up tempo Don't Stop.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: April 17, 2018 17:24
Good point Doxa. Maybe this is the reason Chuck Berry didn't release his album until after his death? It stands to reason legendary icons wouldn't want their work to be pissed on. However, some times it's deserving I suppose. Anyway, I didn't think it was harder to return to a song than to start from scratch, but I'm no musician so I wouldn't know. So artists such as The Stones have all this stuff lying around why not think of a way to get it out so us hard-cores can enjoy it. They could make it exclusive and keep it out of the mainstream to avoid artistic criticism? I believe we could take this stuff for face value and get some happiness out of it. Seems some of the comments here already reflect that notion.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Monsoon Ragoon
()
Date: April 17, 2018 18:28
Quote
liddas
Been listening to these sessions quite a lot in the past days.
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
C
p.s. Me thinks Mr. Jones is on bass
They didn't have much time. There were sessions only for three weeks, which began AFTER the tour announcement. If they really had wanted to do an album, they had started earlier, not in the last minute.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 17, 2018 19:57
Quote
Mathijs
Amazing actually how everybody seem to like these recordings. They have been available in tape trading circles for some time, but they were very hard to trade as nobody was interested in 2002 material.
Maybe only very few people have/had something rare enough to offer in return in a trade fo this kind of material? If nobody (which I guess means among the hardcore traders) was interested in the material, it could have been torrented or else right away years ago.
Quote
Monsoon RagoonQuote
liddas
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
They didn't have much time. There were sessions only for three weeks, which began AFTER the tour announcement. If they really had wanted to do an album, they had started earlier, not in the last minute.
Ronnie said something to that effect in "According to the Rolling Stones" (I think), that there was no time because of the impending tour.
The unreleased stuff was certainly not hit single material (although IMHO Don't Stop isn't either) in 2002 but with some more work (and unless over-produced to death) could have made cool album tracks. By today's standards, Angie perhaps wouldn't be hit single material either (too slow, too old-fashioned, etc.).
I believe what makes these tracks so charming to many people (incl. myself) is that the songs as such are there but still in a very basic state without added gimmicks, very reminiscent - to me - of concerts in the 70s when you just had a singer, one or two guitars, organ, bass and drums on stage and that was it, and it worked well. The songs could all be played live the way they are with no additional sound effects or big band needed. (What I also like - I must admit - is the 70s keyboard sound and the Jon-Lord-type organ.) The folks who like the outtakes are perhaps the same folks who would prefer for the Stones to keep things simple on the new album, and more naturally-sounding.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I also think it's Darryl. Before one of the songs, he's doing a little jazzy trick (almost inaudible) that Don Was, Keith or Ronnie never would have done.
I guess your refer to the little jazzy jam that Chuck and the bass are doing during the banter before the 2nd version of proto-Trouble (track 4). That makes Darryl more likely than anyone else, indeed.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: April 17, 2018 20:17
Quote
ChrisL
And maybe the Rolling Stones aren't as bad as many people (plenty on this site) think they are
Are you implying they were (willingly) circulated by the band's entourage?
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: April 17, 2018 21:07
...i think the pay off with these leaks...is that they are playing them as a band...The Stones as a unit are awesome...the recordings have a fullness...richness to them...an urgency if you will similar to B & L...which they cut live....that's what these remind me of....they even sound better than ABB....or do I just dislike the ABB material?...
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
ChrisL
()
Date: April 17, 2018 21:33
Quote
dcbaQuote
ChrisL
And maybe the Rolling Stones aren't as bad as many people (plenty on this site) think they are
Are you implying they were (willingly) circulated by the band's entourage?
No, just implying that maybe the outtakes are good because the band is still good and can still play some great music!
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: April 17, 2018 23:26
Quote
frankotero
Good point Doxa. Maybe this is the reason Chuck Berry didn't release his album until after his death? It stands to reason legendary icons wouldn't want their work to be pissed on. However, some times it's deserving I suppose. Anyway, I didn't think it was harder to return to a song than to start from scratch, but I'm no musician so I wouldn't know. So artists such as The Stones have all this stuff lying around why not think of a way to get it out so us hard-cores can enjoy it. They could make it exclusive and keep it out of the mainstream to avoid artistic criticism? I believe we could take this stuff for face value and get some happiness out of it. Seems some of the comments here already reflect that notion.
Pretty sure Chuck had the album info and release date scheduled before his passing. And it's damn enjoyable IMO.....
As for the Stones, they LOVE making the critics eat crow.....over and over and over and over
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 18, 2018 03:15
Quote
Rip This
....they even sound better than ABB....or do I just dislike the ABB material?...
No they do sound better, just six guys playing together in a room with great natural sound. Also ABB would have sounded better in such a sonic setting.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 18, 2018 12:53
Quote
liddas
Been listening to these sessions quite a lot in the past days.
Some good stuff, very good at times, but none of the available songs had the potential of a hit single. I just can't imagine a Stones album with Trouble/whatever and Don't Stop as singles.
Could this be the reason why the album was not released?
C
p.s. Me thinks Mr. Jones is on bass
There was no intention to release an album.
After they announced the Licks tour and confirmed there'd be some new songs on 40 Licks (I think they originally said two songs but they released four), they spent 3-4 weeks in Paris going through about 25-30 songs (in various stages of completeness) that they had before settling on the four that they eventually put out.
There was no need to finish most of the songs (and no time to do so anyway)
I haven't read all through this thread but are people actually querying who plays bass? Darryl plays on the four released songs and is present on the recording sessions shown in 'Four Flicks'. Of course its him on bass.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 18, 2018 16:04
Quote
Gazza
There was no intention to release an album.
I can't believe it. I just can't believe that in year 2002 the Stones would care to dedicate their valuable time to organize recording sessions (and involving Chuck and Darryl) just for the pleasure of doing music all together.
VL was published in 94. BtoB in 97. The times for a new one were mature, and I can remember that (at least here on IORR) the rumours were that an album was in the process of being recorded.
C
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
georgelicks
()
Date: April 18, 2018 16:25
Quote
liddasQuote
Gazza
There was no intention to release an album.
I can't believe it. I just can't believe that in year 2002 the Stones would care to dedicate their valuable time to organize recording sessions (and involving Chuck and Darryl) just for the pleasure of doing music all together.
VL was published in 94. BtoB in 97. The times for a new one were mature, and I can remember that (at least here on IORR) the rumours were that an album was in the process of being recorded.
C
A new studio album in 2002 was never in the cards, they were touring on the 40th anniversary, a compilation was already a done deal by 2001, Mick said no for a new Stones album also in 2001.
Rumours on IORR? What's new?
Lots of rumours, and very few facts...
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: April 18, 2018 16:35
The rumors were from Ronnie and Keith suggesting they might finish up the material from 2002 (and maybe reach back to BABYLON) while on the road in 2002 or 2003. Ronnie said the songs were almost done. Apparently some of us hearing these tapes agree with him. I agree with Mick. These rough ideas would need a lot of work to become finished songs and it wasn't going to happen while on tour.
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 18, 2018 16:47
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The rumors were from Ronnie and Keith suggesting they might finish up the material from 2002 (and maybe reach back to BABYLON) while on the road in 2002 or 2003. Ronnie said the songs were almost done. Apparently some of us hearing these tapes agree with him. I agree with Mick. These rough ideas would need a lot of work to become finished songs and it wasn't going to happen while on tour.
Ronnie might have heard more advanced versions of these songs, though
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: April 18, 2018 17:20
Everything is on Youtube. So, is this one also (I'm not much of a downloader. For all sorts of reasons)? Or parts of it. Sorry for not taking the time to read through all pages...
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 18, 2018 19:38
Quote
georgelicksQuote
liddas
VL was published in 94. BtoB in 97. The times for a new one were mature, and I can remember that (at least here on IORR) the rumours were that an album was in the process of being recorded.
C
A new studio album in 2002 was never in the cards, they were touring on the 40th anniversary, a compilation was already a done deal by 2001, Mick said no for a new Stones album also in 2001.
Time would certainly have been ripe for a new album (in the sense that by 2002, the last album was already 5 years old). But releasing a large compilation and a new album (more or less) simultaneously would have been a strange move from a commercial/merchandising point of view.
I understood Ronnie's remarks in such a way that they went into the studio to cut the extra tracks for 40 Licks but ended up with enough material for a full new album (in whatever state of completion the extra-extra material was in the end). He doesn't say that a full new album was a real option, he just sounds (to me) like he regrets there wasn't one.
Of course, as a fan you feel somewhat let down when reading him saying it would have taken very little additional effort.
Quote
georgelicks
Rumours on IORR?
Same as ever.
Quote
georgelicks
What's new?
You tell us.
Quote
georgelicks
Lots of rumours, and very few facts...
True. But the speculation&pondering department is making strong efforts!
Re: LEAK: 2002 Sessions - Discussion Thread and Info
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 19, 2018 03:01
Quote
liddasQuote
Gazza
There was no intention to release an album.
I can't believe it. I just can't believe that in year 2002 the Stones would care to dedicate their valuable time to organize recording sessions (and involving Chuck and Darryl) just for the pleasure of doing music all together.
VL was published in 94. BtoB in 97. The times for a new one were mature, and I can remember that (at least here on IORR) the rumours were that an album was in the process of being recorded.
C
well if they were the rumours were dead wrong.
It might have been rumoured that theyd make a new album for the tour BEFORE the sessions took place - because that was standard practice for every new Stones world tour. The tour announcement at the press conference in New York in early May included the confirmation - which surprised pretty much everyone - that there would be a career spanning compilation released for the first time.
They didnt go into the studio until a couple of weeks later and by then it was confirmed that it would be to record some bonus songs for 40 Licks.
Theres no way the Stones would ever start work on a new album in late May for a tour beginning in early September.
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