I'm pretty damn sure that the 4 new tracks on Live Licks primarily were to function as a teaser to lure also those into buying a career-spanning compilation who already have all the individual albums at home 3 times over.

Not sure about IORR but I cannot really recall any speculations in the press (over here, accessible to me back then) about a new album.

I guess it had been decided that on that occasion (40 years) and at that point in their career a proper restrospective would garner more profit than a new album.


edit:
It's 'Forty Licks', of course ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-19 18:36 by doitywoik.

They shot themselves in the foot with that Four New Licks promo CD.

Trouble ..........




Trouble .............



ROCKMAN

Quote
doitywoik
I'm pretty damn sure that the 4 new tracks on Live Licks primarily were to function as a teaser to lure also those into buying a career-spanning compilation who already have all the individual albums at home 3 times over.

Not sure about IORR but I cannot really recall any speculations in the press (over here, accessible to me back then) about a new album.

I guess it had been decided that on that occasion (40 years) and at that point in their career a proper restrospective would garner more profit than a new album.

"(...) We're trying to cook something up. The 40th anniversary is a good party to give, hopefully there will be something happening... I don't think there will be a completely new studio album. I hope there will be something"
Mick (2001)
[www.timeisonourside.com]

Quote
doitywoik
I'm pretty damn sure that the 4 new tracks on Live Licks primarily were to function as a teaser to lure also those into buying a career-spanning compilation who already have all the individual albums at home 3 times over.

Not sure about IORR but I cannot really recall any speculations in the press (over here, accessible to me back then) about a new album.

I guess it had been decided that on that occasion (40 years) and at that point in their career a proper restrospective would garner more profit than a new album.

Spot on (although I presume you mean 'Forty Licks'). I think we just assumed there'd be a new record. The press conference took place on May 7th 2002. It was announced at that PC (by Michael Cohl, I think) that the contractual negotiations between ABKCO and EMI to issue a double-CD of old songs to promote the tour had only been finalised the night before. At that time, the release didn't even have a title.

There had been plans in 2000 for a tour in 2001. Record Collector even had a prospective title for it ('2001 - a Stones Odyssey' - although I don't recall reading that anywhere else). There was speculation around then (and even into 2002) that the release to tie in with a tour would be a career spanning boxed set of unreleased material. I think that may have some credibility as theres a clip in 'Being Mick' (filmed in 2001) of him going through the Stones vaults and it showed reels of studio sessions from the 70s (I think the caption suggested it was for albums which were being remastered but as far as I recall the post-ABKCO catalogue wasn't remastered for several years after that)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-19 12:46 by Gazza.

Dandelion

I heard a clip ‘Still In Love’
I stopped breathing for 30 seconds.
Stunning.
But what is strange, I have heard it before, I know I have...
Oh boy I hope they finish or release what they have of it.

Quote
35love
Dandelion

I heard a clip ‘Still In Love’
I stopped breathing for 30 seconds.
Stunning.
But what is strange, I have heard it before, I know I have...
Oh boy I hope they finish or release what they have of it.

Yeah, good one. But I think the song from the Licks sessions was called "Still In My Head" (at least from what I could decipher from the screen dumps ).

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
35love
Dandelion

I heard a clip ‘Still In Love’
I stopped breathing for 30 seconds.
Stunning.
But what is strange, I have heard it before, I know I have...
Oh boy I hope they finish or release what they have of it.

Yeah, good one. But I think the song from the Licks sessions was called "Still In My Head" (at least from what I could decipher from the screen dumps ).

‘Still In Love’ had mention of Undercover sessions. The piano and guitar are melodic and ‘still in my head’ ;-).

Quote
Gazza
... (although I presume you mean 'Forty Licks'). ...

Of course! Slip of the hand ... or mind

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
35love
Dandelion

I heard a clip ‘Still In Love’
I stopped breathing for 30 seconds.
Stunning.
But what is strange, I have heard it before, I know I have...
Oh boy I hope they finish or release what they have of it.

Yeah, good one. But I think the song from the Licks sessions was called "Still In My Head" (at least from what I could decipher from the screen dumps ).

I just don't get it, with so many incredible unfinished songs out there like this one, why the hell don't they make a double album out of finishing off the best ones. This song Still In Love is just so uplifting, without even a lyric it just took me to a higher place i didn't know existed before i listened to it. its beautiful. That's another one of those creations Keith mentioned making the other day. Its a travesty that that song has not been finished. Another Keith one i bet.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-19 20:37 by keithsman.

Quote
35love
Dandelion

I heard a clip ‘Still In Love’
I stopped breathing for 30 seconds.
Stunning.
But what is strange, I have heard it before, I know I have...
Oh boy I hope they finish or release what they have of it.

It reminds me a bit of Wonderful Tonight and a bit of the end instrumental part of Layla, maybe that's why it sounds familiar, but of course it has something incredible of its own beyond my two favorite Clapton songs.

Thinking about, and enjoying, the Licks 2002 sessions leak.

Wouldn't it be a shame if The Stones somehow got wind of the leak and stopped any work on a new album BECAUSE some of the songs being worked on over the past 2-3 years are indeed some of the songs that have now leaked? They've gone back to the well so to speak, ala Tattoo You being a mashup of older songs?

And also, HOW did these songs leak anyways? Surely the tracks were in the hands of a select few Stones 'insiders'. I would not want to be them IF The Stones DO get wind of the fact these tracks are in the wild!

Rod

I think, the question HOW these songs leaked should possibly not be discussed in too much detail. Loose lips sink ships.

Quote
bitusa2012
Thinking about, and enjoying, the Licks 2002 sessions leak.

Wouldn't it be a shame if The Stones somehow got wind of the leak and stopped any work on a new album BECAUSE some of the songs being worked on over the past 2-3 years are indeed some of the songs that have now leaked? They've gone back to the well so to speak, ala Tattoo You being a mashup of older songs?

And also, HOW did these songs leak anyways? Surely the tracks were in the hands of a select few Stones 'insiders'. I would not want to be them IF The Stones DO get wind of the fact these tracks are in the wild!

Its an interesting thought, it's possible one or two of these tracks have been finished and were intended for the new album.

I suppose those particular tracks would have to now be dropped from the album.
The truth is we will never know.

But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Well the screws got tightened down after the massive Voodoo leak ....
The Licks tracks have been floating around for a few years now so you'd just about bet the Stones camp know about it and where they were leaked from ....



ROCKMAN

leaking stuff might also serve as a way to promote a tour…

how did they leak?....Stones security is very tight...their PR machine is even tighter...when they want to be on the DL they are totally underground....somebody OK'd these leaks....glad they did...as far as writers block goes....don't believe the hype.....

THE ROLLING STONES
LEAKS
stadiums-arenas-clubs

«56 Leaks»

I could live with that for this tour...

BIG Leaks, high tide and green grass.

Still waiting for some nice leaks from Babylon and Bang sessions!

Much like the unfinished versions of SMU WAY & TOPS these takes would not derail proper releases

They’re nowhere near finished plus Trouble is already official...

I just can't get the melody of "Just Before"/"Because" out of mind. There is something so obvious and familiar in it, and not just in regards to "Trouble" but something way before... The best I could was to come up with is this one: [www.youtube.com]

I mean, the 'original' intro, and then the verse repeating it in a Stones version. . By the time Keith had finished it to the form of "Trouble", the 'origin'is not that obvious any longer, and the intro is gone....

Which make me think of Keith's description of the creation of "Trouble". I wouldn't rule out that KEith isn't there just bullshitting. It could be that he had actually forgetten the Stones version, and the same idea just happened to pop up to his mind again, now in a form of a Hank Williams tune. But is true though that at time of relaesing "Trouble", there were reposrts saying that it was a reworked song deriving from Stones sessions. Wasn't it called "Just Because" or something. So at least someone knew the connection. And then we have guesses going even way down back to TALK IS CHEAP sessions (the intro). So probably in those free-going LICKS sessions, Keith in the spirit of the moment 'recalled' it again... 'hey; I have this old idea of mine... let's give it a try'. So I don't know. If the song just kept coming and going...

But it is good that it actaully was released in the finished form of "Trouble". Had it been left to the Stones, most likely nothing would have ever come out of it. Just those two out-takes.

- Doxa

Quote
keithsman



But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Not that this talk of Jagger's writer's block is apparent Keith fan boy fantasy, it also has a bad contradiction in it: it is actually Jagger's creative output that it is missing from those unfinished songs a'la Licks leaks' here (like the stuff he did with EXILE bonus tracks). So for Mick the things wouldn't be any easier if they would start from the scratch or from old unfinished songs.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
keithsman



But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Not that this talk of Jagger's writer's block is apparent Keith fan boy fantasy, it also has a bad contradiction in it: it is actually Jagger's creative output that it is missing from those unfinished songs a'la Licks leaks' here (like the stuff he did with EXILE bonus tracks). So for Mick the things wouldn't be any easier if they would start from the scratch or from old unfinished songs.

- Doxa

Well some of us regard a lot of these leaked tunes (that are Keith's raw side of the songs without Mick's needed input) as better than the songs that reach us through relatively recent Stones albums. Its as if something gets lost in the production process. Also the fact that Mick is unable to add much to these tunes shows that writers block has been effecting Mick for a while now.
Maybe writers block is the wrong thing to say, bloody mindedness with helping along keiths sketches would sum it up more aptly.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
keithsman



But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Not that this talk of Jagger's writer's block is apparent Keith fan boy fantasy, it also has a bad contradiction in it: it is actually Jagger's creative output that it is missing from those unfinished songs a'la Licks leaks' here (like the stuff he did with EXILE bonus tracks). So for Mick the things wouldn't be any easier if they would start from the scratch or from old unfinished songs.

- Doxa

*Agree!
(not the fanboy calling, but the unfinished tracks no Mick/ too much vacant Jagger.

Quote
diverseharmonics
Still waiting for some nice leaks from Babylon...sessions!

There's a reason why, say no more...

Quote
keithsman

Quote
Doxa

Quote
keithsman



But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Not that this talk of Jagger's writer's block is apparent Keith fan boy fantasy, it also has a bad contradiction in it: it is actually Jagger's creative output that it is missing from those unfinished songs a'la Licks leaks' here (like the stuff he did with EXILE bonus tracks). So for Mick the things wouldn't be any easier if they would start from the scratch or from old unfinished songs.

- Doxa

Well some of us regard a lot of these leaked tunes (that are Keith's raw side of the songs without Mick's needed input) as better than the songs that reach us through relatively recent Stones albums. Its as if something gets lost in the production process. Also the fact that Mick is unable to add much to these tunes shows that writers block has been effecting Mick for a while now.
Maybe writers block is the wrong thing to say, bloody mindedness with helping along keiths sketches would sum it up more aptly.

That "some of us regard a lot of these leaked tunes as better than the songs that reach us through relatively recent Stones albums" tells only that "some of us" like these out-takes better than the released tracks. Nothing else. I, for example, like this proto version of "Trouble" more than I like the final relaese, but does my opinion based on my personal taste now entail that Keith must have had a writer's block because he 'screwed up' the potentiality there? See the analogy here?

I don't live a world in where there is a "fact" that Mick is "unable" to add to these Licks leaks. I don't have an access into that alternative universe. Probably he never did anything more to them more than we can hear there, but that of being "unable" to do more than that is pure speculation. But after these sessions, he actually finished up a thing like "Plundered My Soul". That's a fact. That Jagger doesn't seem to be much inspired finishing up "Keith's sketches", but instead does 40 demos by his own (or with his trusted man of nowadays), doesn't say anything of 'writer's block' but that of him finding inspiration from somewhere else than from Keith's sketches. Most likely his inspiration and drive for creativity doesn't stem from a duty making some devoteed Keith Richards hardcore fans happy. Yeah, isn't he nasty? But those artists tend to be egoistic bastards as far as their muses go.

It could be very well that Mick - with "some of us" - might not see the brilliance in those Richardsian song sketches as other bunch of "some of us" seem to do. Be the reason whatever, creativity cannot be forced, as it is argued in this thread.

Generally, one might not like the outcome of Jagger's recent products - say of "Plundered My Soul" and other EXILE and SOME GIRLS extras, SuperHeavy stuff, "Presidential Election Blues", "Doom & Gloom", "Drive of Shame" or "Gotta Get A Grip"/"England Lost" - but claiming that is a sign of 'writer's block' is as 'reasonable' as is to claim that Keith have had a writer's block since "Gimme Shelter" since he hasn't come up anything even remotively brilliant close to it. Surely the creative downhill in quality (as in quantity as well) has happened to both Mick and Keith from their glory days, but that of talking about some 'writer's block' is too far-reaching.

- Doxa, a member of "some of us"



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-20 01:49 by Doxa.

Quote
keithsman
But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Well some of us regard a lot of these leaked tunes (that are Keith's raw side of the songs without Mick's needed input) as better than the songs that reach us through relatively recent Stones albums. Its as if something gets lost in the production process. Also the fact that Mick is unable to add much to these tunes shows that writers block has been effecting Mick for a while now.
Maybe writers block is the wrong thing to say, bloody mindedness with helping along keiths sketches would sum it up more aptly.

Writer’s block seems a bit overdone, I’d say, we just heard about Mick having written a ton of new songs.
Also, how do we know all those leaked songs are Keith’s only, without any Mick input?

OK, it’s clear that proto-Trouble is Keith’s, and that the two released tunes are most probably Mick’s, but the rest? Because the lyrics aren’t finished and Mick would never bring something to a session that is not yet complete and final? There are possibly more-specialized and better-informed people here, I at least often couldn’t tell for particular songs whether they are Mick’s or Keith’s or a genuinely collaborative efforts. (OK, When I Call Your Name does sound pretty Keith-ish to me.) How do we know there isn’t already some input from Mick present in these tracks?
We don’t know if the unreleased tracks are the only attempts at and/or recordings of these songs. We don’t know if there are more embryonic, less complete versions (like, verse but no chorus, etc.), and we don’t know if there are perhaps also more fully developed versions. These are complete songs structurally-musically but still in a draft state, after all. There’s room for many things to be speculated about.

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
keithsman
But considering Micks apparent writers block its very possible the band will be looking at using unfinished songs from previous sessions for the new album.

Well some of us regard a lot of these leaked tunes (that are Keith's raw side of the songs without Mick's needed input) as better than the songs that reach us through relatively recent Stones albums. Its as if something gets lost in the production process. Also the fact that Mick is unable to add much to these tunes shows that writers block has been effecting Mick for a while now.
Maybe writers block is the wrong thing to say, bloody mindedness with helping along keiths sketches would sum it up more aptly.

Writer’s block seems a bit overdone, I’d say, we just heard about Mick having written a ton of new songs.
Also, how do we know all those leaked songs are Keith’s only, without any Mick input?

OK, it’s clear that proto-Trouble is Keith’s, and that the two released tunes are most probably Mick’s, but the rest? Because the lyrics aren’t finished and Mick would never bring something to a session that is not yet complete and final? There are possibly more-specialized and better-informed people here, I at least often couldn’t tell for particular songs whether they are Mick’s or Keith’s or a genuinely collaborative efforts. (OK, When I Call Your Name does sound pretty Keith-ish to me.) How do we know there isn’t already some input from Mick present in these tracks?
We don’t know if the unreleased tracks are the only attempts at and/or recordings of these songs. We don’t know if there are more embryonic, less complete versions (like, verse but no chorus, etc.), and we don’t know if there are perhaps also more fully developed versions. These are complete songs structurally-musically but still in a draft state, after all. There’s room for many things to be speculated about.

Good, good points. For argument's sake I took as a given that most of the tracks are "Keith's sketches" as my friend and respected opponent Riffie (Keithsman) takes for granted (I guess the process of confirmation goes: 'Hmm that sounds good - thereby, it must be Keith's').

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-20 01:54 by Doxa.