For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
Hairball
Oooh nice doitywoik - that's a keeper!Quote
doitywoik
I'm speculating now - I could even imagine that it was clear that Don't Stop, Keys and whatever the third one of Mick's was would go on 40 Licks even before the Stones had recorded a single note. I'm pretty sure they were specifically designed (or chosen) for that purpose, and that Mick brought them to the studio as by and large complete and worked out songs. I remember an interview with Mick from around that time in which he said that Don't Stop was specifically written with a stadium-crowd audience in mind, so he didn't want to use it for a solo album but for the Stones. So Don't Stop apparently early on was meant to be a/the new song to be played on the tour.
That makes sense regarding the origins of the dorky Don't Stop, the lame Keys, and the cheesy Stealing my heart - a shame isn't it.
And I also recall Mick stating Don't Stop was written with a live audience/concert setting in mind...yawn.
The only memorable part was the state of the art mini doohicky camera that Ronnie had attached to the neck of his guitar visually it was great.
Quote
HairballQuote
IanBillen___________________________________Quote
Hairball
I'm listening to Cried Out right now based on your comment and yes a very good tune. Kind of a soulful bluesy R&B tune that sounds as if it's been from a bygone era - though I have to say the vocals could have been a bit more subtle/restrained (it grates a bit), but I suppose Mick is truly baring his soul in this. Similar style to his singing on Down in the Hole (which I love), yet taken much further here. Overall a bit clunky here and there (and a bit sappy), but could have possibly evolved into a great tune in the latter era. Great keyboards - I'm a sucker for that particular sound.
Now listening to U Don't Wanna again as it was a standout upon first listen, but now I'm hearing shades of Dire Straights Money For Nothing (waiting for Sting to come in singing "I want my mtv") w/ a similar sounding chord structure- until the chorus part comes in. I do like the extended jam of it though, and Mick's vocals are nice.
I LOVE listening to outtakes and rough versions of songs. I thoroughly enjoyed this ...and the quality for a bootleg or whatever you may call it is as good as it can get.
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs. Still GREAT to just hear though .. I really enjoy it. Listening again for the third time right now.
As for Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love being B stock material and not album worthy I would agree, yet they ended up slapping them onto a Greatest Hits album for crying out loud! Some of the other tunes could have easily evolved into decent latter day Stones tunes with a bit of more work and in some cases lots more work, and whose to say that's not exactly what they're doing right now with some of these? Aside from the above two I mention (thankfully they're last in the track order making it easy to skip), I'm enjoying these "rough drafts" more than most of what became of A Bigger Bang. And then you have the early version of Trouble which thankfully was withheld from the Stones (or maybe Mick didn't want to work on it any further). It eventually evolved into a proper tune making it's way on Crosseyed Heart. Nice to hear the skeleton version w/Mick, but the finished result w/Keith singing outshines it by a landslide.
Quote
Ian Billen
Don't Stop and Keys To Your Love are the strongest tracks
Quote
SomeGuy
Am I the only one here who likes Keys, Stealing My Heart and to a lesser degree (the rather light-weight) Don't Stop (I find the guitar sound of that song appealing) ? The track I dont like very much is Keith's song, Losing My Touch.
Quote
SomeGuy
Those four songs were the sole reason for buying the 40 Licks cd anyway, for me.
Quote
doitywoik
I have no statistical data as to who among the IORRians, or the posters in this thread, likes those songs, or finds them passable, or dislikes them. Also, that's everybody's personal affair. See it that way: When a bunch of guys find out they like or dislike the same things (here, songs), they talk about it. That's what is happening here with respect to these songs. My advice: if you really like those songs, don't pay too much attention to our ranting. Rather turn up your stereo and enjoy them!
Quote
35love
doitywoik wrote:
“I'm totally with you as it concerns One More Shot. That song needs Keith's voice, his phrasing and his timing. Mick's voice and style/way of singing simply kills it for me. He is singing the song as if he had swallowed an umbrella before (or suchlike).”
Honestly, I listened to this song this morning and thought:
My favorite part is Mick’s ‘so help me God’ phrase
Quote
DoxaQuote
doitywoik
I have no statistical data as to who among the IORRians, or the posters in this thread, likes those songs, or finds them passable, or dislikes them. Also, that's everybody's personal affair. See it that way: When a bunch of guys find out they like or dislike the same things (here, songs), they talk about it. That's what is happening here with respect to these songs. My advice: if you really like those songs, don't pay too much attention to our ranting. Rather turn up your stereo and enjoy them!
Haha, that's a good advice and that's how things should go like! Unfortunately, in a discussion group like ours the things aren't always that simple in practise. I learned that when CROSSEYED HEART - a kind of Second Coming of Jesus for some folks here - was released. There was this long thread full of appraisal of the album, and I made the mistake of 'spoiling the party' there with my not-so-appraisal-like remarks, since I didn't hear the awesomeness most of the people were hearing there. A horrible experience altogether, and I mostly blame myself for that. Since then I've decided to keep the critical thoughts within myself, and only tend to say something if I have something 'positive' to say (I am not any purist in that sense, like in any other, so I might say something about critical occasionally). Fortunately all the Stones-related stuff released since then - the blues album, Jagger's solo single - has been easy ones for me to be positive about.
Generally, it is the social psychological effect in places like ours doing some twisted tricks occasionally. It doesn't need to be many folks, but if those folks love a bit too much their own opinions, they tend to repeat them again and again, and there are some other folks sharing the opinions, and doing the same, adding more fuel to the tank, the whole atmosphere is soon pretty much domimated by those opinions, no matter how little actual 'support' there actually is for them (I know I've been one of those 'guilty ones' here traditionally, with all those talks about 'Vegas Era' and everything). With that remark I wasn't referring to that CROSSEYED HEART thread, since there was actually a rather strong consensus about the quality of the album, only a couple of us differing from the mainstream stance.
- Doxa
Quote
doitywoik
I'm not sure if their voices still blend as nicely as they used to, Keith's voice has changed a lot over the years. But it's difficult to tell if it is never been done again.
Quote
35love
LOL new album thread, I am revisiting Dirty Work remaster 2009 (...) I don’t like the ‘computer sound albums’ after Tattoo You (...)
Quote
Hairball
PS - Can you imagine Keith trying to sing backup vocals on Getta Grip or England Lost?
Quote
35love
LOL I did confuse I’m sorry thanks for correction
‘So help me God’ phrase is ‘One Hit To The Body’ (of course.)
Quote
Hairball
I suppose that's part of what makes some of these so great - being gifted with gems that could have and should have made the cut (either Stones or solo), but for one reason or another were buried in the sands of time.
Quote
HairballQuote
Ian Billen
Don't Stop and Keys To Your Love are the strongest tracks
You might have to turn in your Rolling Stones Fan Membership card after posting evil thoughts like these!
Just kidding of course, but I should mention that if you're ever over to my studio for a beer/bbq/ Stones listening party - the last person who mentioned Don't Stop and Keys To Your Love was banned forever lol.
DON'T STOP...cheers Ian ...!!!
Quote
Hairball
GRRRRRR.......speaking of which Ian, do you have a favorite of the two tracks that were slapped on to GRRRR for no real reason?
I'm torn between the two - Doom and Gloom is rather generic, while One More Shot isn't much better (though I still would like to hear Keith's solo version which according to Steve Jordan far superior).
Quote
Tate
M+K harmonies are super rare in recent years, in studio recordings and on stage. I don't understand this AT ALL. They harmonize so beautifully together. If I were one of the lucky producers (lol... those poor guys), I'd insist on M+K vocal harmonies all over the place.
Quote
keithsman
Something curious about Mick, he doesn't appear to be uninspired with this music when it comes to playing it live, he's very reluctant to try out new things, or even sing old songs differently, instead he's happy to play pretty much 16 or 17 of the sames songs every night.
This doesn't go along with the idea that Mick is uninspired by Keith's contribution to the Stones sound or songs played.
Quote
keithsman
A compromise is in order, they have reached stalemate, like some sort of Mexican stand off, i think this has been brewing since these 2002 sessions, possibly as far back as Bridges To Babylon.
Quote
DoxaQuote
keithsman
Something curious about Mick, he doesn't appear to be uninspired with this music when it comes to playing it live, he's very reluctant to try out new things, or even sing old songs differently, instead he's happy to play pretty much 16 or 17 of the sames songs every night.
This doesn't go along with the idea that Mick is uninspired by Keith's contribution to the Stones sound or songs played.
I don't think one should make too many parallers between performing live shows and creating new music. No Jagger or any of the band are there on stage creating something 'novel' or making any sort of artistic statements but just making as good show as possible. The Stones are professional performers or, if you like, entertainers. And especially for Jagger to put a Jagger show there are more pragmatic things to be considered than that of 'am I inspired to sing this song'. My guess would be that the latter kind of thought would be the last one in his last, above it will be things like 'am I able to deliver it right', 'can the band deliver it right', 'how I move', 'how can I hold my horses in order to keep my energy level to able to make the show through', 'how will the lights work', 'how is the crowd responding', etc. They are there trying their best to give the people what they want, and thereby making them happy and feeling they get something for their investment. And, as we know, the main vehicle for that is to play as many 'war horses' as possible and play them as well as they can. Those songs are tested, and I guess for Jagger the most important criterion in picking up a song is simply how it works in a live context. Those do. I don't think Keith - or any of them - are any different. Of course they do some 'obscure' songs just for the sake of trying them, giving some variance to the show, or to please us die-hards, but those songs come and go, while the bulk of the show always consists of those signature 'winner' songs.
ADDITION: my point was not to 'judge' the nature of a Rolling Stones show, anyone can have their own opinions of its 'artistic' merits. But my point was that of showing that if Jagger doesn't feel like being inspired by Keith's latest umpteenth and probably degenarated variant of "Jumping Jack Flash" riff in the studio, that doesn't prevent him the next day to perform his ass off with Keith "Jumping Jack Flash" for 50 000 adoring people.
- Doxa
Quote
JumpingKentFlash
Where is that post a few pages back, that mentions some rc exec mediating between Mick and Keef? Can’t find it.