Tell Me :
Talk
Interesting to hear that these enlighted "young" and "educated" people like Junker, Barroso and so on managed to build a prosperous society like for instance in Greece...
But maybe it's true, those old folks in England just can't get it!!
That's a whole different issue, isn't it? I didn't say I thought the European Union was perfect. It badly needs reform, more transparency and a move away from a Schäuble-dominated austerity policy that just like in the case of Greece failed miserably. Also, I didn't call Junker or Barroso young and enlightened. I was talking about my generation believing in a common, competitive Europe instead of national states with backwards attitudes.
Thx!
If you use the word "proto" in that sense you're totally ignorant about the meaning of it (hint : it has a Greek ancestry).
But it says a lot about you : you use the libtard patois and everyone who doesn't think like you is a fascist. Good job...
Now next time you stand in line at Starbuck's while you wiat for your white Mocha please repeat 50 times "that guy at IORR is a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist..."
Linguistically you'll be closer to the truth. Intellectually you're totally stranded on a lot of levels but hey I'm not your Dad to put back on the right tracks...
But you forgot..........there's no more Champions league, Europa league or Euros for the Uk anymore...............
Essex & Kent men have changed their minds..........
If the politicians you named are those that you admire, then you are self-evidently a proto-fascist. End of story.
I'm a staunch liberal and make no apologies for it, so own your ideology, pal. Don't be a coward.
Yes, as my friend said.........."when I'm in an old people's home, if I'm going to get slapped around, then I'd prefer it was by a welsh girl, not some damn foreigner...........>
<
Well, if you really think that there's no relation, let me refer to someone who's much more knowledgeable than me:
[youtu.be]
Brexit shouldn't affect any of us at all really, provided we had no pesky savings or investments to worry about.
+1
I agree, it's offensive from the neck up. Yes, by all means delete it. I've already made it my screen saver!
It seems some people still can't accept strong, capable, powerful women and must revert to demeaning them by sexualizing them and trying to put them back in that 1950s box. Perhaps pearls and an apron would make them feel more secure of their masculinity. Screw that crap - grow up!
But it doesn't remind one of how it was done to Bush as well? Hmmn. And there is no shortage of images one can find comparing Bush to a chimp.
Anyway, there is no reason to bring American politics into this, people are curious about the story, I've read a number of articles on it and everyone should know, if a thread gets too political, it gets deleted.
so to paraphrase, you're banking on a wing and a prayer.
Are we using google translation? I read that differently.
You read it right then.
In the long run the UK will be ok, you know it, I know it. It's the EU we should be worrying about. It's far more fragile than the UK, even with it's multi layered constitutional crisis. Forget the economics, that stuff goes up and down anyway... other countries leaving the EU is a major issue for europe and, I guess, world peace.
The far right is longing to enter any space it can in Europe and there is a notable % of people ready to gobble up their extreme anti-immigration racist rhetoric.
@#$%& those guys!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-28 05:12 by His Majesty.
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Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Wild Slivovitz
()
Date: June 27, 2016 17:39
Quote
LorenzQuote
virgilQuote
Lorenz
No wonder people here voted out. Looking at the demographics of the vote, old and conservative people voted out - clearly destroying the future of the younger generation against their will. Those who are comfy with their golden pensions,
sitting at home listening to a 60-year-old rock band are making the decisions about something they don't even understand. Thank you...
So if I hear you correctly, the older conservatives who voted to leave are to ignorant to understand the referendum to exit the EU. Of course you understand each and every one of their individual situations and life styles and you know what's better for them.
Hummmm, does that sound a little like Elite Brussel bureaucrats dictating the best laws and mandates on how you should live your life. See any parallels here.
Yes, I think they are too ignorant to understand what all of this really means. The world got really complicated really fast and a lot of older people (older, less educated, countryside) just don't get it anymore. They want simple answers for complicated problems. They are in their "Daily Mail" bubble, only seeing simplified headline news. The problem is very much the same in many European countries.
It's old vs. young, educated vs. uneducated and city vs. countryside. I grew up feeling European, speaking different languages, working in different countries - most of my friends live all over Europe. We share a common view, a common perspective. It's being DESTROYED by grumpy, simple old people. I know this is @#$%& arrogant to say, but I really don't know how I would possibly bridge that gap anymore. How would they understand if they lack the knowledge, the information and the willingness to discuss?
The populists now win, because they tell their voters "it's ok the way you are and we understand you". I see how that appeals vs. my arrogant view, but it's not a solution. Our problems won't be solved by Trump, Le Pen, Farage, Strache, et al, but our common future as tolerant societies are in serious danger.
Interesting to hear that these enlighted "young" and "educated" people like Junker, Barroso and so on managed to build a prosperous society like for instance in Greece...
But maybe it's true, those old folks in England just can't get it!!
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
meck1211
()
Date: June 27, 2016 18:07
British Premier league clubs has to pay mor pounds to buy best players from german bundesliga.
That alone is worth it.
That alone is worth it.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Lorenz
()
Date: June 27, 2016 18:36
Quote
Wild Slivovitz
Interesting to hear that these enlighted "young" and "educated" people like Junker, Barroso and so on managed to build a prosperous society like for instance in Greece...
But maybe it's true, those old folks in England just can't get it!!
That's a whole different issue, isn't it? I didn't say I thought the European Union was perfect. It badly needs reform, more transparency and a move away from a Schäuble-dominated austerity policy that just like in the case of Greece failed miserably. Also, I didn't call Junker or Barroso young and enlightened. I was talking about my generation believing in a common, competitive Europe instead of national states with backwards attitudes.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: June 27, 2016 19:10
Quote
keefriff99
you're a proto-fascist.
Thx!
If you use the word "proto" in that sense you're totally ignorant about the meaning of it (hint : it has a Greek ancestry).
But it says a lot about you : you use the libtard patois and everyone who doesn't think like you is a fascist. Good job...
Now next time you stand in line at Starbuck's while you wiat for your white Mocha please repeat 50 times "that guy at IORR is a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist..."
Linguistically you'll be closer to the truth. Intellectually you're totally stranded on a lot of levels but hey I'm not your Dad to put back on the right tracks...
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: June 27, 2016 19:14
Quote
meck1211
British Premier league clubs has to pay mor pounds to buy best players from german bundesliga.
That alone is worth it.
But you forgot..........there's no more Champions league, Europa league or Euros for the Uk anymore...............
Essex & Kent men have changed their minds..........
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Goldsmith
()
Date: June 27, 2016 19:30
I find it fascinating that anyone would consciously vote for less freedom, less democracy and less self-determination and then label those on the opposite side of the debate ignorant and attempt to make their opinions illegitimate. It is truly fascinating…
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: June 27, 2016 19:43
Goldsmith, while I'm in agreement with you I'm thinking there are self loathing personalities out there. As they say it takes all kinds to make the world go around. Regarding people wishing to have this thread closed -I wish you would skip over this one and read a thread that interest you. By the way BV said in the Orlando thread that he's trying to allow a little political talk as long as it doesn't get out of hand, people arguing, name calling, etc. Or did I read that wrong? It's been a few days. Personally I'm enjoying reading people's thoughts on this subject. We can't always talk about The Stones as much as we'd probably like to.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 27, 2016 20:20
I used the term proto-fascist correctly and, unlike you, I'm not using it as an insult.Quote
dcbaQuote
keefriff99
you're a proto-fascist.
Thx!
If you use the word "proto" in that sense you're totally ignorant about the meaning of it (hint : it has a Greek ancestry).
But it says a lot about you : you use the libtard patois and everyone who doesn't think like you is a fascist. Good job...
Now next time you stand in line at Starbuck's while you wiat for your white Mocha please repeat 50 times "that guy at IORR is a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist, a krypto-fascist..."
Linguistically you'll be closer to the truth. Intellectually you're totally stranded on a lot of levels but hey I'm not your Dad to put back on the right tracks...
If the politicians you named are those that you admire, then you are self-evidently a proto-fascist. End of story.
I'm a staunch liberal and make no apologies for it, so own your ideology, pal. Don't be a coward.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: June 27, 2016 20:43
Meanwhile, in America...ah, I don't have the heart or the time needed to write a reasoned, educated, and informative response.
However I have been reading a lot of stuff on 'Brexit' and UK/Global economic and political fallout and/or impact. It's fascinating and illuminating but worrisome as I try to understand how it affects me personally.
I'll read on in hopes of finding out.
However I have been reading a lot of stuff on 'Brexit' and UK/Global economic and political fallout and/or impact. It's fascinating and illuminating but worrisome as I try to understand how it affects me personally.
I'll read on in hopes of finding out.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: June 27, 2016 20:48
"Interesting to hear that these enlighted "young" and "educated" people like Junker, Barroso and so on managed to build a prosperous society like for instance in Greece...
But maybe it's true, those old folks in England just can't get it!!"
I think the Greek case was more a result of "good advice" from Goldman Sachs, corrupt Greek politicians / business people and then of course later on Hedge Funds speculating in Greek default and Grexit (earning lots of money) knowing that Germany in the end would pay the bill.
Maybe EU should have controlled the Greeks a bit more, but then there is the issue about "Interference from Brussels / EU" - own decisions / right to decide locally. When things go wrong, then the problem is EU.
And the "young ones" from the financial businesses could enjoy more Champagne, Ferrari and even by a Greek Island for little money. They even paid themselves large bonuses in the aftermath of the financial crisis in 2007/2008 with support from the Governments.
The ones to blame are rather cruel financial business people than EU.
It is not EU's fault that several financial institutions collapsed / quasi collapsed. UK had to pay big money for, for example, RBS, HBOS, Lloyds - was it some 37 Billion GBP?
Germany had its own cases, same with France, Denmark, Italy, USA etc. Money that could have been used on local communities, NHS, schools.
But again, again and again - EU is the fault.
If we didn't have EU, who would then be to blame!!
But maybe it's true, those old folks in England just can't get it!!"
I think the Greek case was more a result of "good advice" from Goldman Sachs, corrupt Greek politicians / business people and then of course later on Hedge Funds speculating in Greek default and Grexit (earning lots of money) knowing that Germany in the end would pay the bill.
Maybe EU should have controlled the Greeks a bit more, but then there is the issue about "Interference from Brussels / EU" - own decisions / right to decide locally. When things go wrong, then the problem is EU.
And the "young ones" from the financial businesses could enjoy more Champagne, Ferrari and even by a Greek Island for little money. They even paid themselves large bonuses in the aftermath of the financial crisis in 2007/2008 with support from the Governments.
The ones to blame are rather cruel financial business people than EU.
It is not EU's fault that several financial institutions collapsed / quasi collapsed. UK had to pay big money for, for example, RBS, HBOS, Lloyds - was it some 37 Billion GBP?
Germany had its own cases, same with France, Denmark, Italy, USA etc. Money that could have been used on local communities, NHS, schools.
But again, again and again - EU is the fault.
If we didn't have EU, who would then be to blame!!Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: June 27, 2016 21:01
Quote
Goldsmith
I find it fascinating that anyone would consciously vote for less freedom, less democracy and less self-determination and then label those on the opposite side of the debate ignorant and attempt to make their opinions illegitimate. It is truly fascinating…
Yes, as my friend said.........."when I'm in an old people's home, if I'm going to get slapped around, then I'd prefer it was by a welsh girl, not some damn foreigner...........>
<Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Wild Slivovitz
()
Date: June 27, 2016 21:43
Quote
mtaylor
But again, again and again - EU is the fault.
Well, if you really think that there's no relation, let me refer to someone who's much more knowledgeable than me:
[youtu.be]
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:07
Quote
nightskyman
Meanwhile, in America...ah, I don't have the heart or the time needed to write a reasoned, educated, and informative response.
However I have been reading a lot of stuff on 'Brexit' and UK/Global economic and political fallout and/or impact. It's fascinating and illuminating but worrisome as I try to understand how it affects me personally.
I'll read on in hopes of finding out.
Brexit shouldn't affect any of us at all really, provided we had no pesky savings or investments to worry about.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
The Joker
()
Date: June 27, 2016 23:16
The referendum will have probably to be backed by the MPs.
Not only because of the uncertainty of UK decision making (see below), but also because of the EU own decision making.
If leaving the EU relies only on the decision of the UK prime minister, the uncertainty will also be huge for the EU Court of Justice.
EU institutions are likely to face multiple cases of Brits individuals or companies challenging the UK leaving. And the UK leaving will be in a stalemate. So cut it clean and to rule in favour of the UK leaving, it is likely the EU Court of Justice will also need more than a referendum.
[uk.news.yahoo.com]
Britain can't leave the EU without MPs voting for it, top lawyers say
SNAPPA News
SNAPPA News
27 June 2016
The country may just have voted 52% in favour of leaving the EU, but Brexit won’t become a reality unless voted for by members of Parliament, according to Geoffrey Robertson QC.
The lawyer, who set up Doughty Street Chambers, says the referendum was “purely advisory”, and his sentiments have been echoed by Charles Flint QC in a letter to the Times.
“Under our constitution, speaking as a constitutional lawyer, sovereignty rests in what we call the Queen in parliament,” Robertson told The Independent.
“It’s the right of MPs alone to make or break laws, and the peers to block them. So there’s no force whatsoever in the referendum result. It’s entirely for MPs to decide.”
Young anti-Brexit protesters demonstrate at the gates of Downing StreetView photos
(Isabel Infantes/PA)
More
The much spoken about Article 50, the mechanism by which an EU member can leave the union, says a state can only leave the EU “in accordance with its own constitutional requirements”.
“Our most fundamental constitutional requirement is that the decision must be taken by parliament. It will require a bill,” said Robertson.
“MPs will have to do their duty to vote according to conscience and vote for what’s best for Britain. It’s a matter for their consciences. They have got to behave courageously and conscientiously.
“Democracy in Britain doesn’t mean majority rule. It’s not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob … it’s the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them,” he said.
Not only because of the uncertainty of UK decision making (see below), but also because of the EU own decision making.
If leaving the EU relies only on the decision of the UK prime minister, the uncertainty will also be huge for the EU Court of Justice.
EU institutions are likely to face multiple cases of Brits individuals or companies challenging the UK leaving. And the UK leaving will be in a stalemate. So cut it clean and to rule in favour of the UK leaving, it is likely the EU Court of Justice will also need more than a referendum.
[uk.news.yahoo.com]
Britain can't leave the EU without MPs voting for it, top lawyers say
SNAPPA News
SNAPPA News
27 June 2016
The country may just have voted 52% in favour of leaving the EU, but Brexit won’t become a reality unless voted for by members of Parliament, according to Geoffrey Robertson QC.
The lawyer, who set up Doughty Street Chambers, says the referendum was “purely advisory”, and his sentiments have been echoed by Charles Flint QC in a letter to the Times.
“Under our constitution, speaking as a constitutional lawyer, sovereignty rests in what we call the Queen in parliament,” Robertson told The Independent.
“It’s the right of MPs alone to make or break laws, and the peers to block them. So there’s no force whatsoever in the referendum result. It’s entirely for MPs to decide.”
Young anti-Brexit protesters demonstrate at the gates of Downing StreetView photos
(Isabel Infantes/PA)
More
The much spoken about Article 50, the mechanism by which an EU member can leave the union, says a state can only leave the EU “in accordance with its own constitutional requirements”.
“Our most fundamental constitutional requirement is that the decision must be taken by parliament. It will require a bill,” said Robertson.
“MPs will have to do their duty to vote according to conscience and vote for what’s best for Britain. It’s a matter for their consciences. They have got to behave courageously and conscientiously.
“Democracy in Britain doesn’t mean majority rule. It’s not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob … it’s the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them,” he said.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: June 27, 2016 23:43
What a difference 27 years makes...
27 years ago it seemed as if the whole western world started celebrating as states began to leave the USSR and the USSR began to crumble.
Now, in 2016, one state votes to leave the EU and it's viewed as the start of the end of the world.
Peace,
Mr DJA
27 years ago it seemed as if the whole western world started celebrating as states began to leave the USSR and the USSR began to crumble.
Now, in 2016, one state votes to leave the EU and it's viewed as the start of the end of the world.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:01
Mtaylor: Please remove that picture. It's offensive. And certainly a fake.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:09
Quote
Stoneage
Mtaylor: Please remove that picture. It's offensive. And certainly a fake.
+1
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:11
Quote
Stoneage
Mtaylor: Please remove that picture. It's offensive. And certainly a fake.
I agree, it's offensive from the neck up. Yes, by all means delete it. I've already made it my screen saver!
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
SomeTorontoGirl
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:23
Quote
Stoneage
Mtaylor: Please remove that picture. It's offensive. And certainly a fake.
It seems some people still can't accept strong, capable, powerful women and must revert to demeaning them by sexualizing them and trying to put them back in that 1950s box. Perhaps pearls and an apron would make them feel more secure of their masculinity. Screw that crap - grow up!
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: June 28, 2016 02:12
Quote
SomeTorontoGirlQuote
Stoneage
Mtaylor: Please remove that picture. It's offensive. And certainly a fake.
It seems some people still can't accept strong, capable, powerful women and must revert to demeaning them by sexualizing them and trying to put them back in that 1950s box. Perhaps pearls and an apron would make them feel more secure of their masculinity. Screw that crap - grow up!
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
JadedFaded
()
Date: June 28, 2016 03:48
That photoshopped picture shows a total lack of respect for women. It reminds me of that horrible photoshopped picture shortly after the election likening the Obamas to apes. Judge politicians by their words, their actions, their policies and beliefs. Do not judge them by their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
SomeTorontoGirl
()
Date: June 28, 2016 03:49
Quote
JadedFaded
That photoshopped picture shows a total lack of respect for women. It reminds me of that horrible photoshopped picture shortly after the election likening the Obamas to apes. Judge politicians by their words, their actions, their policies and beliefs. Do not judge them by their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
BroomWagon
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:06
Quote
JadedFaded
That photoshopped picture shows a total lack of respect for women. It reminds me of that horrible photoshopped picture shortly after the election likening the Obamas to apes. Judge politicians by their words, their actions, their policies and beliefs. Do not judge them by their race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.
But it doesn't remind one of how it was done to Bush as well? Hmmn. And there is no shortage of images one can find comparing Bush to a chimp.
Anyway, there is no reason to bring American politics into this, people are curious about the story, I've read a number of articles on it and everyone should know, if a thread gets too political, it gets deleted.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:13
This is such a complex issue. At first glance this does seem to be about a large number of people feeling disenfranchised and powerless. And at the same time many of those people resist the opening to the world and resent immigration, and the diluting of "English" culture.
The EU has done amazing things to unite Europe after WWII. Yet, at the same time it looks like a bloated bureaucracy was deaf to many complaints about their power to control local cultures through laws that seemed distant and disconnected to the reality on the ground.
Yet, so little has been done with the EU to fix the perceived shortcomings through negotiation and political will power. Which has resulted in this catastrophe for the EU and I fear for Great Britain. It also has shown the stark rise of neo-nationalism and xenophobia. So much so that Her Trump sees a glimmer for his xenophobic fascist campaign as a world-wide phenomena that perhaps he can ride to greater fame and power.
The EU has done amazing things to unite Europe after WWII. Yet, at the same time it looks like a bloated bureaucracy was deaf to many complaints about their power to control local cultures through laws that seemed distant and disconnected to the reality on the ground.
Yet, so little has been done with the EU to fix the perceived shortcomings through negotiation and political will power. Which has resulted in this catastrophe for the EU and I fear for Great Britain. It also has shown the stark rise of neo-nationalism and xenophobia. So much so that Her Trump sees a glimmer for his xenophobic fascist campaign as a world-wide phenomena that perhaps he can ride to greater fame and power.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:15
Watch as the UK makes better what it's poorly informed people voted for. Watch also as it ends up being better off out of the EU. Further still, with or without Scotland, the UK will still prosper byond it's current position.
Why? Because it is just too stubborn, egotistical and annoyingly wealthy to allow itself to fail. A bumpy road, but one it's ruling class will turn around and make good. It has done that so many times through history.
I hate the ruling class and the whole UK class system, but it is very effective at generating wealth... usually via the broken backs of poor people from some corner of the world, sometimes even in their own back garden and usually for their own benfit.
The EU will end up worse off for the UK leaving it than the UK will for leaving the EU, simply because the UK is so used to the very kind of challenge it currently faces.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-28 04:16 by His Majesty.
Why? Because it is just too stubborn, egotistical and annoyingly wealthy to allow itself to fail. A bumpy road, but one it's ruling class will turn around and make good. It has done that so many times through history.
I hate the ruling class and the whole UK class system, but it is very effective at generating wealth... usually via the broken backs of poor people from some corner of the world, sometimes even in their own back garden and usually for their own benfit.
The EU will end up worse off for the UK leaving it than the UK will for leaving the EU, simply because the UK is so used to the very kind of challenge it currently faces.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-28 04:16 by His Majesty.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:22
Quote
His Majesty
Watch as the UK makes better what it's poorly informed people voted for. Watch also as it ends up being better off out of the EU. Further still, with or without Scotland, the UK will still prosper byond it's current position.
Why? Because it is just too stubborn, egotistical and annoyingly wealthy to allow itself to fail. A bumpy road, but one it's ruling class will turn around and make good. It has done that so many times through history.
I hate the ruling class and the whole UK class system, but it is very effective at generating wealth... usually via the broken backs of poor people from some corner of the world, sometimes even in their own back garden and usually for their own benfit.
The EU will end up worse off for the UK leaving it than the UK will for leaving the EU, simply because the UK is so used to the very kind of challenge it currently faces.
so to paraphrase, you're banking on a wing and a prayer.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
BroomWagon
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:38
Quote
treaclefingers
so to paraphrase, you're banking on a wing and a prayer.
Are we using google translation? I read that differently.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 28, 2016 05:00
Hah, no, UK (or make that, Westminster) failing is good for my ideal, that being Scottish independence.
Re: OT British Election
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 28, 2016 05:11
Quote
BroomWagonQuote
treaclefingers
so to paraphrase, you're banking on a wing and a prayer.
Are we using google translation? I read that differently.
You read it right then.
In the long run the UK will be ok, you know it, I know it. It's the EU we should be worrying about. It's far more fragile than the UK, even with it's multi layered constitutional crisis. Forget the economics, that stuff goes up and down anyway... other countries leaving the EU is a major issue for europe and, I guess, world peace.
The far right is longing to enter any space it can in Europe and there is a notable % of people ready to gobble up their extreme anti-immigration racist rhetoric.
@#$%& those guys!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-28 05:12 by His Majesty.
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