I am glad we all behave well here on IORR. No worries. I was just joking.

I just watched the EU Parlament meeting broadcast from Brussels today. It was chocking to see how these socalled leaders behave like insulted school kids. No wonder EU is breaking up. It is all here. EU is a sinking ship. Watch the video:

Nigel Farage jeered and booed as he tells MEPs they are 'in denial' over Brexit

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Fact:
There was a referendum where 52% of the UK votes said "Leave EU". That is 17 million British people voting. Then there was a 48% minority wanting to stay in EU. The rest did not care i.e. they did not vote.

Old vs young:
I see many claim the young people in UK wanted to stay in EU. So why didn't they vote? They did not care! There was more than 70% attendance in the referendum, exceptional high number. Many old people felt it was time to state their opinion, less young people. Then AFTER the vote reality hits in.

May be England should get another game vs Iceland? May be there should be another referendum to stay or leave EU? May be people are stupid and politics should be left to the market, like lawyers and stock traders and politicians and others with a PH.D., far away from people in the streets?

The EU Parlament performance today made it all very clear. They ignore Britain. They ignore those who want to leave. Some say next up to leave are The Netherlands, then Sweden, and more.

Fact:
UK is a G5 super-economy. They are one of the world's top five - 5 - economies. I saw an EU parlament leader today saying there are 440 million EU people and Britain is just one of 28 countries. She pretended UK is just 1 of 28 i.e. 3.6% weight in EU. That is how EU politicians are thinking. But... there are 64 million people living in in UK, out of the 440 people in EU in total. That is 15% - fifteen percent! And like I said, UK are one of the world's top five economies.

Scotland want to stay because the ultralow oil price hit them hard.

Which leads me to my own country Norway. We have had two EU referendums. In 1972 and in 1994. Both times the people voted NO to EU. Today nobody in Norway cares about EU. Some polls are done every now and then, they show may be 70% or 75% NO to EU in Norway. We have a trade agreement with EU where we pay a lot of money to EU, and in return we accept 75% of the EU rules, the free market etc. We put a tax on French cheese or milk or something, and the EU politicians freak out. The EU politicians set up rules on how a banana is supposed to be bent/curved, size etc, and I believe all of EU is eating small Spanish bananas, but we do still have normal bananas from Costa Rica and America in Norway.

There are many good things about EU. They work on human rights. Privacy policy. They fight tax loop holes used by Google, Apple, Starbucks and other multinational corporates. Norway gave EU the Peace Price, well deserved. But EU have developed into a sort of institution disconnected to normal people. And they force rules through power.

I am concerned about the rest of the people on this planet. If you take 200 nations minus 28 EU countries then you get more than 170 nations outside the "inner market" of EU. Why should EU define if I drink coffee from Tanzania, Brazil or Vietnam? Why are virtually all imported flowers sold in Norway imported via The Netherlands? Why do people in Belgium want to split into Flamish and French spoken regions? Why do Italy and Spain have their own internal disputes on borders and independence? Why does the ferry between Helsinki and Stockholm do a stopover in Åland Mariehamn? So many questions and so few logical explanations...

Bjornulf

I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-28 23:12 by desertblues68.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

No doubt that some people are azzholes... Sounds like you had to deal with one of them today. Hate that you were forced to change you plans because of some schmuck but many kudos and much respect for showing yourself to be the bigger person. I'm not sure that I would have found the strength to do the same. Although I'd like to think that I would have, I can't say for sure. I do know that, in the future, when I find myself in a similar situation (as I'm sure I will) I'll be doing my best to remember your example.

Here's hoping that you have a better ride tomorrow and the days which follow.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

I am truly sorry. I voted to leave but not for this shit to start happening. I hope it stays a very rare thing. I don't know what else I can say - I am ashamed of these morons.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

That's dreadful to read. Xenophobia is an appalling thing. Take comfort in the knowledge that you've been settled in out wondrous capital for 20-years and that this moronic fool probably cannot spell the country of your birth.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

That totally sucks, but as Mr DJA said, you showed you were the bigger person.
I sincerely hope that once the first euphoria/shock wears off (depending on which side people are on), this sort of thing will never happen again, and that those who behave this way will feel the shame that they deserve to feel. (Meanwhile you have Stones records to cheer yourself up when you get home, unlike the miserable bastards who insult strangers on buses and thus presumably have appalling musical taste to match their all-around lack of class. )

What I don't understand is why Cameron won't stick around to negotiate the exit, when he's the one who asked for the referendum in the first place. There's a leadership vacuum in Great Britain that the referendum has exposed. You would think they would have been prepared to hit the ground running in the event that the referendum passed. Which it did.

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marianna
What I don't understand is why Cameron won't stick around to negotiate the exit, when he's the one who asked for the referendum in the first place. There's a leadership vacuum in Great Britain that the referendum has exposed. You would think they would have been prepared to hit the ground running in the event that the referendum passed. Which it did.

I honestly think Cameron put it to a vote to please a certain sector of the populas to shut them up. He believed until it was way too late that the majority would vote too stay. That's why he did not have a back up plan. He thought he would wake up last Friday and things could go on as normal.

I'm glad young people don't vote since their brains aren't fully developed until their 25. The auto rental, hotel industry, and insurance companies know that, which is why they won't rent a car or room to anyone under 25, and is why your insurance drops when you hit 25. ><

Basically this is a backlash against globalism and federalism. And a weak leadership in the form of the EU. Everyone isn't ready for this infinite and borderless new world. There are winners and losers in this equation.
And the working classes (and lower middle classes) in the West are on the losing side. And if you leave them behind you will have trouble at hand whether you like it or not.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

I'm so sorry, desertblues68, that is appalling. It's bad enough that people like this are coming out of the woodwork and feeling entitled to act this way (probably inevitable after some of the Leave campaigning), but even worse that others will just let them insult you and do nothing.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

You should told him..."I'm not going back there, I hate Wales........."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-29 15:38 by EddieByword.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

Disgusting ! I would hope if I had been on the bus, I wouldn't have looked away. The ugly mood of this whole Bexit campaign makes me ashamed to be English. I voted to stay in - with massive reservations , because of the extreme right politicians waiting to take over.

BV - a very good summary of what's going on in Europe re the populations vs. the politicians.

SC UK .......... I might have to change that to StrayCat England Wales !!!!!!!!!!

EU can be summed up in 4 words. THEY DID NOT LISTEN. Good riddance to that undemocratic establishment. NEVER EVER AGAIN!!!!

No institution is perfect and the EU is no exception. But it really does need some fundamental reforms to make it more democratic and accountable. I voted remain as you can’t influence or change it from outside the club. But the EU has grown from the old EEC/Common Market into a supranational government that has taken on powers in almost every aspect of life. I have to say that for the EU to continue, its powers need to be severely rolled back to close to its original post-war mandate as a free trade zone. It does not need to be telling us what our tax rates should be for example.

On the flip side, the British MSM have never given balanced coverage to EU proceedings so that left a void which has been filled with the hate-filled anti-EU ravings of the Daily Mail. The British media has some culpability in failing to accurately report.

As a Brit it was a stupid move to leave in my opinion but now we have to move on. I like the EU but I will say this, cutting their own noses off to spite their own faces by treating us harshly in negotiations will do them no favours. There is much we will have to climb down on but they will have to meet us halfway as well.

If the negotiators behave sensibly and logically then maybe then we can put this madness to bed as quickly and as painlessly for both sides.

I know that the banana example is just so, an example. But just out of curiosity I'd comment that you can find all kind of bananas in the market even in spain. There is an increasing populism thriving in EU who walks hand in hand with xenophobia. One of its dogmas is that Politics or PhD are far away from people. I do not know what "People" is/are, I have never met "it". is it a ghost? a fruit?. Phd or politicians are (in the worst case) as far of "people" as football players, postmen or plumbers are.

No one could imagine a terrorist act in favour of European Union. But it would not be surprising if it happened the other way round. In fact it did. If fhe likes of Maduro, LePen, Farage, the extreme right are happy with brexit the issue deserves a second thought.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-29 13:19 by emotionalbarbecue.

Racism After Brexit: Teenagers Hurl Abuse At American On Manchester Tram

[www.youtube.com]


video: [www.youtube.com]

this is what populism brings...

Stupid kid. Poor upbringing. Horrible accent. In a way I feel sorry also for the kid. He doesn't know any better.

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

What a stupid clown! I'm sorry you had to experience that

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straycatuk

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desertblues68
I have just been insulted on the bus. I am en eu citizens and have been living in London for more than 20 years. A guy told me to go back to my shifty country. I moved seat and he kept following me around. I begged the driver to stop got off and got on another bus. The people on the bus just looked the other way.

Disgusting ! I would hope if I had been on the bus, I wouldn't have looked away. The ugly mood of this whole Bexit campaign makes me ashamed to be English. I voted to stay in - with massive reservations , because of the extreme right politicians waiting to take over.

BV - a very good summary of what's going on in Europe re the populations vs. the politicians.

SC UK .......... I might have to change that to StrayCat England Wales !!!!!!!!!!

SC UK, I'm where you are on everything you've said slthough you'll have to substitute English for Scottish in my case. My biggest fear now is that the Scottish government will use this as an excuse to push for another independence referendum, which they would have a good chance of winning, greatly saddening me as a proud Scot and Brit in the process

I think most people are in agreement that both csmpaigns were an absolute disgrace of scaremongering and twisted facts, with an ugly mood in the country. The whole thing's been very divicive and nasty.

It had certainly emboldened the racists and xenophobes with numerous highly unpleasant incidents being reported from all around the country. Truly awful, sickening stuff. As a Scot living in England but still with a strong Scottish accent, maybe I'll get the same in future I've even heard of stuff going on in workplaces too...

However, it's been a healthy and respectful debate so far with Bjorulf relaxing his usual ban on discussions of politics. Not only that, he makes a very good contribution to it. Thanks for your nice comments about the UK btw and I just hope we have an orderly exit from the EU and end up with a Norway style relationship with it. I just hope it isn't done nastily and we can continue trading happily with our European neighbours and friends. It's not like we are being towed away to the middle of the Atlantic and anchored there

Yes! Appreciated BV's thoughts.
I have my fingers crossed that Britain's next Prime Minister will be the right
man at the right time. Farage is a true nightmare in all this unhappy mess.

Interesting debate by all on a subject of which I know very little. Bjornulf's comments and a few others have resonated with me in some of my thoughts about the US election. The fear that the election of Trump would be catastrophic is palpable amongst a good segment of the population in the US. I'm not crazy about the idea either, but I think the US political system and citizens will exert the usual pressure to pull Trump more to the middle. We're beginning to see that already in how he is starting to temper his remarks on immigration.

This kind of ying and yang happens in many democracies. Hopefully, when all the dust settles in the UK, wiser heads will prevail.

I'm very sorry about what happened to you desertblues, absolutely appalling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-29 18:06 by latebloomer.

I am sorry to hear about many individuals being on the receiving end of vicious racist remarks and behavior. It's a knee- jerk reaction from..well..from jerks, really. Certainly this type of response is not limited to the UK. We saw it over here in the US right after 911. Just about anyone that had a swarthy complexion were thought to be Muslims. Even the Sikhs were attacked; deadly attacks. But, then again, most people where very kind and gracious and really opened up their hearts. Good always prevails one way or another.

Things will settle down in Britain as time goes by. It's been an upheaval and an unexpected one evidently. Just brought about the worst in some people, unfortunately.

Maybe the politicians can set a better example for mature adult behavior. Booing and hissing is rather abusive if not somewhat comical. At least there hasn't been a brawl that has happened in some Parliaments around the world. Appears to be commonplace behavior, as well.

I'm afraid of what will happen over here if Trump gets elected. The fact that he's gotten this far speaks volumes about the American people..some of them anyway. And it isn't flattering. He's an egomaniac who is obsessed about winning with the Presidency being the ultimate prize. He'll say anything to win hence the constant flip-flopping on issues. Unfortunately, Brexit and now the Turkish Airport bombing has emboldened him and he's ratcheting up the rhetoric big time right now.

I truly fear for the future.

The Brexit results should give Americans and all democratic countries reason to reflect and consider possibilities. In the US, Trump has a rare talent of being able to speak out of both sides of his mouth with conflicting statements, and still get people to believe it's the truth. Magically capricious.

Blame it on the Stones.....

This thread goes on, 325 posts so far, and I'm truly delighted that despite our different opinions, the general tone is courteous and respectful. Cheers everybody, IORR is a pretty fine community.

i voted to leave the eu for several reasons, i do not have a problem with immigrants, what i do have a problem with is illegal immigrants and britain losing control of its borders which is also a security issue, now that we will leave the eu we should grab back control of who we let into the country to work, play or live, but i see no problem in britain having a policy of continuing to have immigrants in the country, just as long as we know the numbers and can control our borders and the decision is the uk,s not the eu,s.

i always felt the eu was unbalanced with britain suffering but i wasnt in favour of many immigrants coming in to britain and taking many jobs, the only way that can balance up is for many people to leave britain and go abroad and work but for many who have families and are settled this is not an option.i have no problem with a controlled and pre agreed number of immigrants coming to work, i just dont like a free for all attitude.

also im not in favour of criminals coming in to britain, we have enough of our own without adding to the numbers.

and ofcourse we have the eu telling us what shape a banana should be, without the eu britain can choose to buy the bananas it wants to.

we also soon wont have to pay euro ministers salaries for them to travel first class and debate the important matters, we can debate these using our own corrupt politicians and with whom we like and it will cost us less.

i would like scotland to be run by scottish people, voted in by scottish people and run for scottish people from scotland, not run by westminster and brussels.

Excellent post Buttons and some good points. It just shows that the 62-38 vote split up there is not strictly a Unionist-Nationalist thing. I personally am a Unionist but I completely empathise with your final sentence and I acknowledge it has merit.
My issue is that Scotland does nearly 4 times as much trade with the rest of the UK as it does with the whole EU. If Scotland did leave the UK altogether, I would want it to have its own currency. Sharing the pound with the rest of the UK and so ceding interest rate decisions to what would be a foreign country is just daft and I don't know why the idea is still being floated. Even Salmond pretty much admits he got that one wrong.

If there is another referendum, I hope devo max is on the ballot paper and not the wishy washy Smith Commission outcome.

Back on topic - I note with interest that the FTSE 100 has more than recovered from its Brexit slump already, although the pound remains weak, though recovering a little. Hmmmm. Someone's making an sbsolute killing out of this methinks....

I'm also pretty confident we'll be allowed into the single market. The Germans sell us too many cars and we're too important to them!

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bv

Old vs young:
I see many claim the young people in UK wanted to stay in EU. So why didn't they vote? They did not care! There was more than 70% attendance in the referendum, exceptional high number.

Thx for mentioning the unmentionable Bjornulf. Indeed young ppl just sat on their arse last Thursday because they probably something very important to do, more important than the referendum.

Now they want a 2nd referendum as if life was a videogame ("dude I lost this game... can we play another one? I'm sure I'll win this time!" ).

Or they want to ban "old" people from voting. Next time they'll ask "old" people to be termianted at the age of 45, "Soylent Green" style...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-30 10:37 by dcba.

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buttons67
i voted to leave the eu for several reasons, i do not have a problem with immigrants, what i do have a problem with is illegal immigrants and britain losing control of its borders which is also a security issue, now that we will leave the eu we should grab back control of who we let into the country to work, play or live, but i see no problem in britain having a policy of continuing to have immigrants in the country, just as long as we know the numbers and can control our borders and the decision is the uk,s not the eu,s.

.

Agree. ... Just because you advocate for legal immigration does not make you a racist. I would also add that if immigrants come to your county, you should expect them to assimilate.