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Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Gfmsoccer ()
Date: May 21, 2015 23:15

Well the reviews are in, and overall it was a great club gig in LA, if you were one of the few to experience it.

For all the Mick Taylor minions, I read all the legit reviews and they said the only song he was really missed on was Can't You Hear Me Knocking. His guitar was missed as they focused on Sax & Keyboards last night. Otherwise they did great with Sticky Fingers.

So get off the Mick Taylor train, the band does just great without him.
He was a guest on the last tour anyway. They never said he was rejoining the band.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: May 21, 2015 23:22

I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: StonesCat ()
Date: May 21, 2015 23:33

Quote
Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.


That's the main point that most of us try to make on here, then you get everybody providing answers to questions nobody was asking. I couldn't give a damn about people wearing Stones clothes, or famous people with the Stones, or any number of other threads that have been on here forever, but I don't feel the need to over and over ask those that do care-why they do.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 00:16

Quote
Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.

I don't think Taylor showing his skills is a sufficient incentive for Mick Jagger to hire him for this show.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: May 22, 2015 00:42

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gotdablouse
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Dreamer
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gotdablouse
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RollingFreak
The real killer is that they brought him back and then didn't for this. If he hadn't played with them for years, this would be such a discussion. Its that he toured as a guest with them ALL tour the last 3 years, and was criminally underused. And I'll even give the Stones the fact that on the tour maybe he wasn't so much underused as he just didn't fit in. I don't believe that, but fine I'll let them have it.

Then, after 3 years of underusing him as a guest, you do a show where it wouldn't make all the sense in the world to NOT include him! Thats what really hammers the point home. There's no real logical reason after everything thats happened since 2012 that he couldn't and shouldn't have been a part of this. This is kind of the proverbial c*ck in their 3 year c*cktease. The fact that his minimal participation led to his complete LACK of participation here is... well... its just unexplainable, and it is frankly rather cruel. Cause none of us would have felt this way if they hadn't brought him back.

And I say this all being a very big fan of how the show last night turned out. But to not mention this is just lying to yourself.

Exactly, plus they had an easy way to get some musical integrity back but they're so entrapped in money and fame that they just can't function any other way now, which is ridiculous given what they've achieved and where they are in their career and lives.


If they would have made MT their musical director in 1974 people would get bored with their "musical integrity" real soon and they would eat noodles every day for the rest of their lives.
Do you remember what you did in Europe to get inside a gig like this?
Don't pretend you know a lot about integrity.

It's bad enough that you're annoying everyone here who wants to discuss all things Taylor, we get it that you don't like him or think he's important, just move on to better things...but adding insult to injury you're now making baseless personal accusations, you really have no shame. WTF is wrong with you ?! It's totally OT here, but I got in fair and square at the Trabendo as the +1 of a friend with which I spent dozens of hours in the freezing cold in Bondy and still see regularly to share our passion for the Stones, so I demand an immediate apology. Once that's done feel free to send me an email and I'll be happy to clear up any BS you've been told that might have led you to make a fool of yourself with this grotesque accusation.


Thank you and this is exactly what I mean: you behave like a sincere fan when they are around the corner (and I gave my compliments for how enthusiastically you shared your journo reports) but when in a discussion with some other folks here about a gig ten thousand miles away I notice you suddenly accuse the same band of having no "musical integrity" and that "they're so entrapped in money and fame"... That is what is "bad enough"; the double standard you're pulling here is grotesque! That's a legitimate WTF!

And in your desperate attempt to try to finish me you bring this "annoying everyone": you can't do this little tricky on your own and need your dubious friendo's with the same fake moral superiority.
And "we get it you don't like him": trying to create a coalition with those hysterical MT aficionados and wannabee intellectuals.
You're hiding something with this shouting "I demand an imediate apology".
Hiding your hypocrisy. It's not the RS that are 'entrapped.'
It's you that is entrapped in your double standard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 00:45 by Dreamer.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: May 22, 2015 00:50

Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 00:52 by Turner68.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Dreamer ()
Date: May 22, 2015 00:57

Quote
Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.


That's my opinion too.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: May 22, 2015 01:07

Quote
Gfmsoccer
Well the reviews are in, and overall it was a great club gig in LA, if you were one of the few to experience it.

For all the Mick Taylor minions, I read all the legit reviews and they said the only song he was really missed on was Can't You Hear Me Knocking. His guitar was missed as they focused on Sax & Keyboards last night. Otherwise they did great with Sticky Fingers.

So get off the Mick Taylor train, the band does just great without him.
He was a guest on the last tour anyway. They never said he was rejoining the band.

No.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: May 22, 2015 01:40

The aggressiveness of people like Dreamer c.s. is just food for psychologists. Or perhaps even more for psychiatrists.

Live with it: the best Stones years where the first ten, the Taylor years (the tours included of course) being the best part of them. But for these people that's hard to accept. If this weren't true they wouldn't campaign here constantly, trying to destroy the thread by any means, and let the decent members just doing their thing here and leave them alone, shaking their heads with mild irony. But they act like mad elephants.

There are countless threads where you can praise the current Stones into their graves. Go ahead. You better move on.



Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: May 22, 2015 01:41

Quote
Leonioid
Quote
stonehearted
BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Max, is that you?

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: May 22, 2015 01:44

Quote
Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.

It's not at all ironic, it makes perfect sense if you consider it from another perspective. If they had invited Mick T on this tour, which is being marketed partly as a celebration of Sticky Fingers, they would have gotten endless questions and flack from the press if they didn't use Taylor on a lot more songs. So either they include him more and let him do his thing, in which case you have the inevitable comparison to Ronnie plus the uncertainty of where he would go with the songs on stage. Or he plays much the same number of songs that he did on the last few tours and everything is about, why doesn't Mick Taylor play more on his own songs? Throw in some potential personal tensions over this between the main players, and it makes perfect sense that they decided...that's it, not worth it this time around. Of course the reason could very well be something completely unrelated to all the speculation, my own included, that has been gong on now here for months.

...and yes, Kleerie, I said I wouldn't be back and I changed my mind, probably because I am a woman, right? grinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 02:07 by latebloomer.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: strat72 ()
Date: May 22, 2015 01:56

Quote
Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

No, the band were at their live best between 69 and 73.... I know this, the band know this, and deep down, you do as well. When I say the band, I mean all of them, not just Taylor. He was the cherry on top of the cake, and what a sweet cherry he was. I love Ronnie, but the band never reached the same heights after Mick T left. I'm sure Ron would admit this himself.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: May 22, 2015 02:19

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strat72
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Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

No, the band were at their live best between 69 and 73.... I know this, the band know this, and deep down, you do as well. When I say the band, I mean all of them, not just Taylor. He was the cherry on top of the cake, and what a sweet cherry he was. I love Ronnie, but the band never reached the same heights after Mick T left. I'm sure Ron would admit this himself.

i didn't say they were better with Ron. i was just explaining my interpretation of why he wasn't on this tour. 69 and 70 were their best tours in my opinion. they were over the hill before ron even joined.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Getondown ()
Date: May 22, 2015 02:33

You are clueless. He is one of the great blues rock guitarist of all time.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Getondown ()
Date: May 22, 2015 02:35

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Turner68
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strat72
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Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

No, the band were at their live best between 69 and 73.... I know this, the band know this, and deep down, you do as well. When I say the band, I mean all of them, not just Taylor. He was the cherry on top of the cake, and what a sweet cherry he was. I love Ronnie, but the band never reached the same heights after Mick T left. I'm sure Ron would admit this himself.

i didn't say they were better with Ron. i was just explaining my interpretation of why he wasn't on this tour. 69 and 70 were their best tours in my opinion. they were over the hill before ron even joined.

Nobody in their right mind can argue they have been better with Ron...LOL GMAFB.

There are lots of old time fans that treasure Taylor - get used to it!

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: May 22, 2015 02:48

Quote
Getondown
You are clueless. He is one of the great blues rock guitarist of all time.

Newsflash: they aren't a blues band.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: May 22, 2015 04:33

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latebloomer
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Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.

It's not at all ironic, it makes perfect sense if you consider it from another perspective. If they had invited Mick T on this tour, which is being marketed partly as a celebration of Sticky Fingers, they would have gotten endless questions and flack from the press if they didn't use Taylor on a lot more songs. So either they include him more and let him do his thing, in which case you have the inevitable comparison to Ronnie plus the uncertainty of where he would go with the songs on stage. Or he plays much the same number of songs that he did on the last few tours and everything is about, why doesn't Mick Taylor play more on his own songs? Throw in some potential personal tensions over this between the main players, and it makes perfect sense that they decided...that's it, not worth it this time around. Of course the reason could very well be something completely unrelated to all the speculation, my own included, that has been gong on now here for months.

...and yes, Kleerie, I said I wouldn't be back and I changed my mind, probably because I am a woman, right? grinning smiley

But its the thing that THEY brought it up. THEY brought him back, for an extended 3 years of touring. Honestly, had they left it to just the 2012 appearances, I don't think I'd be on this side. But they brought him along all tour in 2013, all in 14 On Fire to play 2, maybe 3 songs. They were the ones that trotted him out, and I firmly believe if they didn't think they NEEDED to bring him out in 2013, they wouldn't have. Either for money or incentive or insurance, but for some reason they needed him. And not to do very much, but to just be there.

I didn't think he was rejoining the band then. But I thought the second they brought him out on an actual tour, they opened pandora's box, and I don't believe for a second they didn't know fans would freak out about this. And AGAIN, I'd be fine if this tour was more of the same we've gotten the last 20 years. But its not. Its promoting an album HE was on after HE just toured with them for 3 years. Its shocking people can't just admit how insane that is that after everything thats happened THIS is what he's excluded from.

And last thing I'll say, is no one is noting "where's Bill?" Again, because they didn't bring him out on tour. HE was a guest for the 50th anniversary. They used Taylor for more, and either if it was just to be nice or because it was gimmick, the bottom line was they used him a lot and took him around everywhere. And to exclude him from this, I'll even go as small as just this full album performance, is insane to overlook. After everything thats happened, there's no reason he shouldn't have been there and it really is more of just the middle finger at fans, which was already poking its way up on the 50th tour with ridiculously minimal guesting. Had he gotten more time on stage, no one would be complaining, and had THEY not brought him back into the band, no one would be complain. They have no one to blame but themselves for this topic.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: andrewt ()
Date: May 22, 2015 05:12

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StonesCat
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Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.


That's the main point that most of us try to make on here, then you get everybody providing answers to questions nobody was asking. I couldn't give a damn about people wearing Stones clothes, or famous people with the Stones, or any number of other threads that have been on here forever, but I don't feel the need to over and over ask those that do care-why they do.

Fair points. I concur.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: May 22, 2015 09:53

Quote
Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

The Stones knew what kind of guitarist they recruited and what direction they wanted to go in. They were also disappointed when he left. If you don't like the versions of the songs during his tenure that is fine.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 10:11

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TravelinMan
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Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

The Stones knew what kind of guitarist they recruited and what direction they wanted to go in. They were also disappointed when he left. If you don't like the versions of the songs during his tenure that is fine.

Did they? To me, Black And Blue sounds very trying as far as musical directions go.

It's kinda funny, the last thing Taylor did was playing caribbean-esque stuff on TWFNO, and the first thing Ronnie did was bringing a caribbean-esque tune to the table (Hey Negrita).

Very different, though, I know...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 10:11 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Come On ()
Date: May 22, 2015 10:24

Purely instrumental Stones need both Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor to future shows. I found that the only ones that kept the ship rolling last summer (2014) was Jagger and Charlie.

2 1 2 0

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: May 22, 2015 10:44

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Dreamer
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gotdablouse
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Dreamer
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gotdablouse
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RollingFreak
The real killer is that they brought him back and then didn't for this. If he hadn't played with them for years, this would be such a discussion. Its that he toured as a guest with them ALL tour the last 3 years, and was criminally underused. And I'll even give the Stones the fact that on the tour maybe he wasn't so much underused as he just didn't fit in. I don't believe that, but fine I'll let them have it.

Then, after 3 years of underusing him as a guest, you do a show where it wouldn't make all the sense in the world to NOT include him! Thats what really hammers the point home. There's no real logical reason after everything thats happened since 2012 that he couldn't and shouldn't have been a part of this. This is kind of the proverbial c*ck in their 3 year c*cktease. The fact that his minimal participation led to his complete LACK of participation here is... well... its just unexplainable, and it is frankly rather cruel. Cause none of us would have felt this way if they hadn't brought him back.

And I say this all being a very big fan of how the show last night turned out. But to not mention this is just lying to yourself.

Exactly, plus they had an easy way to get some musical integrity back but they're so entrapped in money and fame that they just can't function any other way now, which is ridiculous given what they've achieved and where they are in their career and lives.


If they would have made MT their musical director in 1974 people would get bored with their "musical integrity" real soon and they would eat noodles every day for the rest of their lives.
Do you remember what you did in Europe to get inside a gig like this?
Don't pretend you know a lot about integrity.

It's bad enough that you're annoying everyone here who wants to discuss all things Taylor, we get it that you don't like him or think he's important, just move on to better things...but adding insult to injury you're now making baseless personal accusations, you really have no shame. WTF is wrong with you ?! It's totally OT here, but I got in fair and square at the Trabendo as the +1 of a friend with which I spent dozens of hours in the freezing cold in Bondy and still see regularly to share our passion for the Stones, so I demand an immediate apology. Once that's done feel free to send me an email and I'll be happy to clear up any BS you've been told that might have led you to make a fool of yourself with this grotesque accusation.


Thank you and this is exactly what I mean: you behave like a sincere fan when they are around the corner (and I gave my compliments for how enthusiastically you shared your journo reports) but when in a discussion with some other folks here about a gig ten thousand miles away I notice you suddenly accuse the same band of having no "musical integrity" and that "they're so entrapped in money and fame"... That is what is "bad enough"; the double standard you're pulling here is grotesque! That's a legitimate WTF!

And in your desperate attempt to try to finish me you bring this "annoying everyone": you can't do this little tricky on your own and need your dubious friendo's with the same fake moral superiority.
And "we get it you don't like him": trying to create a coalition with those hysterical MT aficionados and wannabee intellectuals.
You're hiding something with this shouting "I demand an imediate apology".
Hiding your hypocrisy. It's not the RS that are 'entrapped.'
It's you that is entrapped in your double standard.

Oh so you were in fact not accusing me of cheating my way in to the Trabendo, I guess that's a relief...but you're saying that because I spent dozens of hours in the cold day after day in 2012 in 2014 in Bondy and indirectly gained access to the Trabendo thanks to that I'm not allowed to voice my discontent that they've ditched Taylor like an old sock when it would have made so much sense to keep him at the very least for that SF special ? Some kind of warped "don't bite the hand that feeds you"/'toe the line" concept?

Is that what working for the Stones organization for 21 years did to you (re : Bianca's description of how it operates) or were you always like that? I guess that explains a lot of your posts here (first the fighting with Dandy about Keith vs Mick and now this) but has got nothing to do with the Taylor discussion, so yeah, move on and let fans discuss what he means to them.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: May 22, 2015 10:51

Quote
Turner68
Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

That's the best epitaph to Taylor's 69-74 stint in the band I ever read!
Thx! smileys with beer

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 11:31

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stonehearted
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Leonioid
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stonehearted
BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA

Max, is that you?

thumbs up

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: crawdaddy ()
Date: May 22, 2015 11:37

It is a shame that MT is not on the Tour , and I do feel for him as he obviously would love to be there.

Just two or three SF songs would add a little something to what is always a great gig.

Unfortunately would be a lot of criticism of The Stones by some fans who want him to play on more SF songs and not acoustic on Satisfaction.

It obviously is gonna be a great Tour with or without MT , as seen at the Fonda show.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 11:44

Quote
latebloomer
Quote
Stoneage
I don't mind if Taylor is not on the Zip Code tour. I'm not a Taylorist. I'm just stating that it's ironic that they took him around the world for three years playing, basically, one song over and over again.
And then they keep him out of the golden opportunity to show his skills on this Sticky Fingers special. That's my point. Nothing else.

It's not at all ironic, it makes perfect sense if you consider it from another perspective. If they had invited Mick T on this tour, which is being marketed partly as a celebration of Sticky Fingers, they would have gotten endless questions and flack from the press if they didn't use Taylor on a lot more songs. So either they include him more and let him do his thing, in which case you have the inevitable comparison to Ronnie plus the uncertainty of where he would go with the songs on stage. Or he plays much the same number of songs that he did on the last few tours and everything is about, why doesn't Mick Taylor play more on his own songs? Throw in some potential personal tensions over this between the main players, and it makes perfect sense that they decided...that's it, not worth it this time around. Of course the reason could very well be something completely unrelated to all the speculation, my own included, that has been gong on now here for months.

...and yes, Kleerie, I said I wouldn't be back and I changed my mind, probably because I am a woman, right? grinning smiley

Good post, latebloomer. You really should post in this thread more often smiling smiley

What Mick sees is that he didn't want to get dependent on Taylor, so much that it would have been a question of hhim re-joining the band. Nothing wrong with re-joining, as far as I'm concerned, but I really understand that the band wouldn't wanna end up in that situation.

They have toured with (more or less) the same concept since the 50 & Counting tour in 2012. Now they had a new concept and theme, and they probably were thinking "clean slates, new tour".

I'm not saying that I agree, but this is what I see when I try to see it from the band's angle. One can always discuss they way they've handled this, though (and we have done that!).

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 11:44

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The real killer is that they brought him back and then didn't for this. If he hadn't played with them for years, this would be such a discussion. Its that he toured as a guest with them ALL tour the last 3 years, and was criminally underused. And I'll even give the Stones the fact that on the tour maybe he wasn't so much underused as he just didn't fit in. I don't believe that, but fine I'll let them have it.

Then, after 3 years of underusing him as a guest, you do a show where it wouldn't make all the sense in the world to NOT include him! Thats what really hammers the point home. There's no real logical reason after everything thats happened since 2012 that he couldn't and shouldn't have been a part of this. This is kind of the proverbial c*ck in their 3 year c*cktease. The fact that his minimal participation led to his complete LACK of participation here is... well... its just unexplainable, and it is frankly rather cruel. Cause none of us would have felt this way if they hadn't brought him back.

And I say this all being a very big fan of how the show last night turned out. But to not mention this is just lying to yourself.

Exactly, plus they had an easy way to get some musical integrity back but they're so entrapped in money and fame that they just can't function any other way now, which is ridiculous given what they've achieved and where they are in their career and lives.


If they would have made MT their musical director in 1974 people would get bored with their "musical integrity" real soon and they would eat noodles every day for the rest of their lives.
Do you remember what you did in Europe to get inside a gig like this?
Don't pretend you know a lot about integrity.

It's bad enough that you're annoying everyone here who wants to discuss all things Taylor, we get it that you don't like him or think he's important, just move on to better things...but adding insult to injury you're now making baseless personal accusations, you really have no shame. WTF is wrong with you ?! It's totally OT here, but I got in fair and square at the Trabendo as the +1 of a friend with which I spent dozens of hours in the freezing cold in Bondy and still see regularly to share our passion for the Stones, so I demand an immediate apology. Once that's done feel free to send me an email and I'll be happy to clear up any BS you've been told that might have led you to make a fool of yourself with this grotesque accusation.


Thank you and this is exactly what I mean: you behave like a sincere fan when they are around the corner (and I gave my compliments for how enthusiastically you shared your journo reports) but when in a discussion with some other folks here about a gig ten thousand miles away I notice you suddenly accuse the same band of having no "musical integrity" and that "they're so entrapped in money and fame"... That is what is "bad enough"; the double standard you're pulling here is grotesque! That's a legitimate WTF!

And in your desperate attempt to try to finish me you bring this "annoying everyone": you can't do this little tricky on your own and need your dubious friendo's with the same fake moral superiority.
And "we get it you don't like him": trying to create a coalition with those hysterical MT aficionados and wannabee intellectuals.
You're hiding something with this shouting "I demand an imediate apology".
Hiding your hypocrisy. It's not the RS that are 'entrapped.'
It's you that is entrapped in your double standard.

Oh so you were in fact not accusing me of cheating my way in to the Trabendo, I guess that's a relief...but you're saying that because I spent dozens of hours in the cold day after day in 2012 in 2014 in Bondy and indirectly gained access to the Trabendo thanks to that I'm not allowed to voice my discontent that they've ditched Taylor like an old sock when it would have made so much sense to keep him at the very least for that SF special ? Some kind of warped "don't bite the hand that feeds you"/'toe the line" concept?

Is that what working for the Stones organization for 21 years did to you (re : Bianca's description of how it operates) or were you always like that? I guess that explains a lot of your posts here (first the fighting with Dandy about Keith vs Mick and now this) but has got nothing to do with the Taylor discussion, so yeah, move on and let fans discuss what he means to them.

Of course he wasn't.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: May 22, 2015 12:24

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Mick Taylor was great with them on the 69/70 tours. Then he developed a bit too much of an ego IMO, became a little self-indulgent and started soloing and playing riffs all over the songs, trying to turn them into just another early 70s guitar band. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Brown sugar, to my ears, just aren't as good in 72/73 because Taylor just doesn't know when to stop.

As Keith Richards said, what you don't play is as important as what you do.

The Stones don't see the sort of endless soloing/riffing that Taylor does as part of their sound - if there was any doubt as to that, look at who they hired to replace Taylor: Ron Wood. They want someone who comes to rock and roll, not reinterpret all their songs as if it was Jazz fusion.

I believe it's for these reasons - plus the fact that he is not a member of the band (!) - that is not a "permanent guest" on their tours.

The Stones knew what kind of guitarist they recruited and what direction they wanted to go in. They were also disappointed when he left. If you don't like the versions of the songs during his tenure that is fine.

fair enough.

honestly i don't get all the emotion on this thread. i felt like the stones pretty well buried the hatchet on this topic by inviting taylor to join them to celebrate their anniversary, saying very complimentary things about him, etc. (and i'm sure they paid him well), but it seems that instead they are being blamed for making it worse by including him!

i saw them in 2013 and i felt that taylor had aged just as much as the rest of the band but it was still awesome to see him up there on rambler - a day i thought i'd never see. but i certainly didn't expect him to remain a permanent touring guest nor did i think that he was the mick taylor of the 69 tour that i loved or the 72 tour that some of you did. none of them were. anyway, i'm going to stop reading this thread it seems to be mostly inside grudges and fights that have little to do with mick taylor the musician.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 12:25 by Turner68.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Posted by: Chacal ()
Date: May 22, 2015 12:31

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DandelionPowderman

Good post, latebloomer. You really should post in this thread more often smiling smiley

What Mick sees is that he didn't want to get dependent on Taylor, so much that it would have been a question of hhim re-joining the band. Nothing wrong with re-joining, as far as I'm concerned, but I really understand that the band wouldn't wanna end up in that situation.

They have toured with (more or less) the same concept since the 50 & Counting tour in 2012. Now they had a new concept and theme, and they probably were thinking "clean slates, new tour".

I'm not saying that I agree, but this is what I see when I try to see it from the band's angle. One can always discuss the way they've handled this, though (and we have done that!).

'They' is plural.
The band's angle ? There are 4 official bandmembers, right ?
Several of them may not have shared the CEO's point of view. One of them could have exercised a veto, but chose instead to repeat what he was told (without doing any fact checking) before withdrawing from the situation.

What is this breathtaking new concept they are launching for the upcoming tour ?
It appears the plan is to take the familiar setlist (it's not like these songs were first introduced on the 50 & Counting tour) to 15 stadiums in North America, throw in 2 or 3 songs from the last (re-)release and keep fingers crossed the market is not fully saturated yet ?

How is this any different from what they've done before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-22 12:32 by Chacal.

Re: Mick Taylor Talk - what's on your mind right now...
Date: May 22, 2015 12:37

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Good post, latebloomer. You really should post in this thread more often smiling smiley

What Mick sees is that he didn't want to get dependent on Taylor, so much that it would have been a question of hhim re-joining the band. Nothing wrong with re-joining, as far as I'm concerned, but I really understand that the band wouldn't wanna end up in that situation.

They have toured with (more or less) the same concept since the 50 & Counting tour in 2012. Now they had a new concept and theme, and they probably were thinking "clean slates, new tour".

I'm not saying that I agree, but this is what I see when I try to see it from the band's angle. One can always discuss the way they've handled this, though (and we have done that!).

'They' is plural.
The band's angle ? There are 4 official bandmembers, right ?
Several of them may not have shared the CEO's point of view. One of them could have exercised a veto, but chose instead to repeat what he was told (without doing any fact checking) before withdrawing from the situation.

What is this breathtaking new concept they are launching for the upcoming tour ?
It appears the plan is to take the familiar setlist (it's not like these songs were first introduced on the 50 & Counting tour) to 15 stadiums in North America, throw in 2 or 3 songs from the last release and keep fingers crossed the market is not fully saturated yet ?

How is this any different from what they've done before.

Until we know more, I can't say that it is Mick who vetoed this.

It is different because they're touring behind a product, rather than the celebration of 50 years in the business. Yes, there are indeed good arguments in favour of having Taylor with them for this, since he was an integral part of SF.

I didn't say "breathtaking" smiling smiley

I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate here, and to see things from the other angle. Like I said, I'm not saying it's right.

But that Fonda setlist was something else, no matter how wonderful the setlists from Trabendo or Echoplex were.

Let's see if they do the same setlists as on the Euro tour this time around. I would be surprised if they're not changed around a bit, with more SF stuff.

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