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DandelionPowderman

Brian plays the slide on Grown Up Wrong, doesn't he? That's pretty up in the mix.

Nope, that's not slide.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman

Brian plays the slide on Grown Up Wrong, doesn't he? That's pretty up in the mix.

Nope, that's not slide.

How is it possible to produce a sound that's so "in-between frets" without a slide? Tremolo? Vibrato? Volume pedal? Sloppy playing?

Always thought that was a slide guitar...

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DandelionPowderman

How is it possible to produce a sound that's so "in-between frets" without a slide? Tremolo? Vibrato? Volume pedal? Sloppy playing?

Always thought that was a slide guitar...

I think it's combo of out of tune guitar and vibrato. The guitar is in standard tuning and also plays some lead licks. note that the move to the higher chord hits on to the notes rather than sliding up as if were with a slide.

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DandelionPowderman
«Live versions arranged with Taylor» might be a more correct description, Doxa?

Because I reckon most of the old fans, growing up with Aftermath, BTB, BB and LIB would think of them as Brian era-songs. So would I, for that matter, since the songs on those albums are iconic. The live versions have been different through the years, but that's part of the charm with the Stones.

For instance, up till the 1989 tour the live versions of JJF had been different for every tour

Personally I don't have any use for "Brian era","Taylor era" etc. labels, since the story of the band is much diversive and complicated. Sometimes handy, but like now, just brings more trouble than is worth.

But I think you belittle the significance of their live performances, and especially the significance of GET YER YA'YA'S OUT! back in the day. Only a small percentage of their fanbase back then were able to catch the band in concert, but YA-YA'S introduced the sound of the band to millions. It is as important as the Big Four - actually it should be Big Five, since YA-YA'S is a part of the deal, of that incredible musical statement which settled the musical credibility of the band for ages. The label "greatest rock and roll band of the world" is very much justified by the music of that album. They were a terrific live band. I guess for many the versions in that album are as iconic as the original studio versions.

Yeah, since those days the live versions have been different, but there has never been such a great creative jump needed for "road versions" as it was back then for BEGGARS/BLEED material. Naturally the songs started to evolve and change from the early live versions (until the development was killed in 1989).

- Doxa

Its in standard tuning with vibrato played by Keith (I guess). I think he uses a slide to play the high block chords, At about one minute 12 seconds you can hear him flub the slide bit.

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terraplane
Its in standard tuning with vibrato played by Keith (I guess). I think he uses a slide to play the high block chords, At about one minute 12 seconds you can hear him flub the slide bit.

No slide, but there is a flub of sorts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-12 15:16 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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terraplane
Its in standard tuning with vibrato played by Keith (I guess). I think he uses a slide to play the high block chords, At about one minute 12 seconds you can hear him flub the slide bit.

No slide, but there is a flub of sorts.

Those phrase endings sure sound weird (and kinda cool).

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
«Live versions arranged with Taylor» might be a more correct description, Doxa?

Because I reckon most of the old fans, growing up with Aftermath, BTB, BB and LIB would think of them as Brian era-songs. So would I, for that matter, since the songs on those albums are iconic. The live versions have been different through the years, but that's part of the charm with the Stones.

For instance, up till the 1989 tour the live versions of JJF had been different for every tour

Personally I don't have any use for "Brian era","Taylor era" etc. labels, since the story of the band is much diversive and complicated. Sometimes handy, but like now, just brings more trouble than is worth.

But I think you belittle the significance of their live performances, and especially the significance of GET YER YA'YA'S OUT! back in the day. Only a small percentage of their fanbase back then were able to catch the band in concert, but YA-YA'S introduced the sound of the band to millions. It is as important as the Big Four - actually it should be Big Five, since YA-YA'S is a part of the deal, of that incredible musical statement which settled the musical credibility of the band for ages. The label "greatest rock and roll band of the world" is very much justified by the music of that album. They were a terrific live band. I guess for many the versions in that album are as iconic as the original studio versions.

Yeah, since those days the live versions have been different, but there has never been such a great creative jump needed for "road versions" as it was back then for BEGGARS/BLEED material. Naturally the songs started to evolve and change from the early live versions (until the development was killed in 1989).

- Doxa

No belittling. I love Ya Yas more than Brussels Affair or Europe '73

There were different versions of many of these songs before and after Ya Yas, though, and the Stones were just as big before and after Ya Yas, too.

I have never heard anyone who attended the 1969 tour say that they were disappointed when they heard LIB after the show they attended. I could be wrong, though.

I'm not sure if speeding up MR and/or adding some more guitar solos on that one and LIV has much to do with any «creative jump», though. The dynamic MR on LIB, with superior harp playing, percussion and its mood might be just as creative per se - even though it's not my favourite version.

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DandelionPowderman
The dynamic MR on LIB, with superior harp playing, percussion and its mood might be just as creative per se - even though it's not my favourite version.

Indeed it is, and of course creativity and improvisation are not the same thing at all. I prefer the live versions on the strength of Taylor's input and the band's sound as a whole, but the musical vision involved in realising the studio cuts is still as impressive today as it must have been in 1969. When I listen to LIB these days I usually find myself wishing that Keith had carried on developing his slide playing, which (to me) stands out on that album as amazingly creative and, for the time, unique.

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His Majesty
Well, the answer is that they were better before he was in the band, but they were worse after he left.

Lol, he fortunately hasn't been changed.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Well, the answer is that they were better before he was in the band, but they were worse after he left.

Lol, he fortunately hasn't been changed.

Hello!

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

To each his own. While I generally agree, I have one main exception. To me, GS is one of the few tracks that were úplayed in the 69 -73 era that is better in the studio and live post 89, especially 95 - 98. Post 203 started going downhill because of Lisa in most cases.
Although Taylor plays great, the song misses female vocals and Keith on lead or co-lead) To me, the studio has both spookiness (Keith's tintro and lead lines) and drama/ tension in it (Merry Clayton|. The Taylor era versions have either the spookiness (69) or drama (Taylor dominated takes in them). Although I am not the fan of backing vocalists on every song these days, on this one, it is essential for me, as well as Keith on lead.

By the way, I am planning to make a lot of boot revies / 50 best of Stones shows live from all eras, top 10 Live Faces boots, top 10 best Live solo Woody \Related and top 10 or 20 solo Taylor.

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

Well I'd say Ry Cooder did a great job on the tune LIB and Taylor was great on Country Honk and Live With Me.

Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man and YCAGWYW were so well done by Keith I find it extremely hard to say this great records "suffered" from anything actually. I think it would be very difficult to find any live version of GS or YCAGWYW that surpassed the studio versions. Yeah some great Taylor work on the live versions but the studio cuts were perfect, imo. Love to see a post of either of those two which you think was actually better that the LIB record though. I'm all ears.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

Well I'd say Ry Cooder did a great job on the tune LIB and Taylor was great on Country Honk and Live With Me.

Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man and YCAGWYW were so well done by Keith I find it extremely hard to say this great records "suffered" from anything actually. I think it would be very difficult to find any live version of GS or YCAGWYW that surpassed the studio versions. Yeah some great Taylor work on the live versions but the studio cuts were perfect, imo. Love to see a post of either of those two which you think was actually better that the LIB record though. I'm all ears.

Except some intros, the one of GS in the first place, LIB has always sounded kinda sterile to my ears. I've always felt something is missing, certainly compared to its predecessor and its successor. Anyway, I never listen to the studio version anymore.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
«Live versions arranged with Taylor» might be a more correct description, Doxa?

Because I reckon most of the old fans, growing up with Aftermath, BTB, BB and LIB would think of them as Brian era-songs. So would I, for that matter, since the songs on those albums are iconic. The live versions have been different through the years, but that's part of the charm with the Stones.

For instance, up till the 1989 tour the live versions of JJF had been different for every tour

Personally I don't have any use for "Brian era","Taylor era" etc. labels, since the story of the band is much diversive and complicated. Sometimes handy, but like now, just brings more trouble than is worth.

But I think you belittle the significance of their live performances, and especially the significance of GET YER YA'YA'S OUT! back in the day. Only a small percentage of their fanbase back then were able to catch the band in concert, but YA-YA'S introduced the sound of the band to millions. It is as important as the Big Four - actually it should be Big Five, since YA-YA'S is a part of the deal, of that incredible musical statement which settled the musical credibility of the band for ages. The label "greatest rock and roll band of the world" is very much justified by the music of that album. They were a terrific live band. I guess for many the versions in that album are as iconic as the original studio versions.

Yeah, since those days the live versions have been different, but there has never been such a great creative jump needed for "road versions" as it was back then for BEGGARS/BLEED material. Naturally the songs started to evolve and change from the early live versions (until the development was killed in 1989).

- Doxa

No belittling. I love Ya Yas more than Brussels Affair or Europe '73

There were different versions of many of these songs before and after Ya Yas, though, and the Stones were just as big before and after Ya Yas, too.

I have never heard anyone who attended the 1969 tour say that they were disappointed when they heard LIB after the show they attended. I could be wrong, though.

I'm not sure if speeding up MR and/or adding some more guitar solos on that one and LIV has much to do with any «creative jump», though. The dynamic MR on LIB, with superior harp playing, percussion and its mood might be just as creative per se - even though it's not my favourite version.

I agree with your perspective.

Indeed, Ya-Yas was not a huge seller and of the probably 10 casual stones fans I know personally who saw them on the tour, all say that the show was good but that they were there to party and don't remember too much about the music. Just like in 81 or really most any tour from the 60's up until the stones and their fans turned 40.

It is strange to be putting down LIB. Gimme Shelter and you can't always get what you want are two of the band's iconic songs and have never been performed live as well as they are captured on the studio album.

I think get yer ya ya's out is one of the big 5 I just don't go as far as some of the commenters

As far as impact on millions, Let it Bleed both when it came out and over the years has far outsold Ya-Yas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-08-12 19:10 by Turner68.

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

Well I'd say Ry Cooder did a great job on the tune LIB and Taylor was great on Country Honk and Live With Me.

Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man and YCAGWYW were so well done by Keith I find it extremely hard to say this great records "suffered" from anything actually. I think it would be very difficult to find any live version of GS or YCAGWYW that surpassed the studio versions. Yeah some great Taylor work on the live versions but the studio cuts were perfect, imo. Love to see a post of either of those two which you think was actually better that the LIB record though. I'm all ears.

Except some intros, the one of GS in the first place, LIB has always sounded kinda sterile to my ears. I've always felt something is missing, certainly compared to its predecessor and its successor. Anyway, I never listen to the studio version anymore.

Yeah that original GS intro was indeed special and the live versions have never quite compared. I actually feel the same way about YCAGWYW, when the acoustic guitar comes in it's just sublime, imo. But like I said I'd love to hear live versions of either of those songs that top the studio ones. Thanks.

All the intros are iconic on LIB, imo.

Btw, Cooder only played mandolin on LIV on LIB.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

Well I'd say Ry Cooder did a great job on the tune LIB and Taylor was great on Country Honk and Live With Me.

Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man and YCAGWYW were so well done by Keith I find it extremely hard to say this great records "suffered" from anything actually. I think it would be very difficult to find any live version of GS or YCAGWYW that surpassed the studio versions. Yeah some great Taylor work on the live versions but the studio cuts were perfect, imo. Love to see a post of either of those two which you think was actually better that the LIB record though. I'm all ears.

Except some intros, the one of GS in the first place, LIB has always sounded kinda sterile to my ears. I've always felt something is missing, certainly compared to its predecessor and its successor. Anyway, I never listen to the studio version anymore.

Yeah that original GS intro was indeed special and the live versions have never quite compared. I actually feel the same way about YCAGWYW, when the acoustic guitar comes in it's just sublime, imo. But like I said I'd love to hear live versions of either of those songs that top the studio ones. Thanks.

Don't try to be smart by asking such a silly question. You know them just as well as I do. At least, you should. But if you prefer all studio versions to all live versions, then that is a matter of taste of course and not illegal or offensive.

It's hard to surpass perfection.

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DandelionPowderman
It's hard to surpass perfection.

It's nonsense to use the qualification 'perfection' to music in the first place.

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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His Majesty
Let It Bleed is an album without a distinctive third man voice.

Indeed, and it suffers heavily from it. The live versions of the LIB songs during the 1969 - 1973 tours surpass the LIB studio versions by about 2000 light years.

Well I'd say Ry Cooder did a great job on the tune LIB and Taylor was great on Country Honk and Live With Me.

Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man and YCAGWYW were so well done by Keith I find it extremely hard to say this great records "suffered" from anything actually. I think it would be very difficult to find any live version of GS or YCAGWYW that surpassed the studio versions. Yeah some great Taylor work on the live versions but the studio cuts were perfect, imo. Love to see a post of either of those two which you think was actually better that the LIB record though. I'm all ears.

Except some intros, the one of GS in the first place, LIB has always sounded kinda sterile to my ears. I've always felt something is missing, certainly compared to its predecessor and its successor. Anyway, I never listen to the studio version anymore.

Yeah that original GS intro was indeed special and the live versions have never quite compared. I actually feel the same way about YCAGWYW, when the acoustic guitar comes in it's just sublime, imo. But like I said I'd love to hear live versions of either of those songs that top the studio ones. Thanks.

Don't try to be smart by asking such a silly question. You know them just as well as I do. At least, you should. But if you prefer all studio versions to all live versions, then that is a matter of taste of course and not illegal or offensive.

I was actually hoping you'd post one that would remind me of just how good Taylor was, and possibly identify one of your favorite versions. I'm away from my record collection at the moment. I just trust your opinion on some of these things, wasn't trying to be smart. I'm sure there are lots of folks here who aren't as knowledgeable about such things either.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
It's hard to surpass perfection.

It's nonsense to use the qualification 'perfection' to music in the first place.

Not when I find them perfect.

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
It's hard to surpass perfection.

It's nonsense to use the qualification 'perfection' to music in the first place.

Not when I find them perfect.

I know it's an only-Keith-on-guitar album. Just perfect for you.

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DandelionPowderman
All the intros are iconic on LIB, imo.

Btw, Cooder only played mandolin on LIV on LIB.

Don't think anyone suggested differently. Mando on LIV, and slide on LIB, right?

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
All the intros are iconic on LIB, imo.

Btw, Cooder only played mandolin on LIV on LIB.

Don't think anyone suggested differently. Mando on LIV, and slide on LIB, right?

No, only mandolin on LIV.

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DandelionPowderman

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Naturalust

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DandelionPowderman
All the intros are iconic on LIB, imo.

Btw, Cooder only played mandolin on LIV on LIB.

Don't think anyone suggested differently. Mando on LIV, and slide on LIB, right?

No, only mandolin on LIV.

Yes I think that is what I've been saying all along here, no worries.

Let It Bleed is perfect the way it is. There´s nothing you´d miss or long for. Live-versions of these glorious songs may be different, but not better.

I personally can do very well without Taylor and the Stones have done very well before and after Taylor. Like I said, Let It Bleed is perfect, it needs no Taylor or Wood or whoever. When I listen to Let It Bleed I´m always glad that there´s mostly just Keith and Keith only. Sometimes less is more and Taylor´s "noodling" can at times be very boring and annoying.Thank God there is no Taylor on the original version of Gimme Shelter.

It's the "and slide on LIB" that is incorrect. That's Keith.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
It's hard to surpass perfection.

It's nonsense to use the qualification 'perfection' to music in the first place.

Not when I find them perfect.

I know it's an only-Keith-on-guitar album. Just perfect for you.

Oh how i've missed IORR!