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andrewt

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GRNRBITW
i'm sure chuck leavell is gonna be blamed for this...so sad.

Why sad? Don't be sad.

This Friday, the Florida House of Reps denied the renovation of Dolphin Stadium (aka Sunlife Stadium). We were trying once again to be ripped off by another Billionaire to try to con voters for the need of a new baseball stadium in the worse part of Miami.

The proponent of the renovations for Dolphin Stadium is worth 4 billion dollars -named Steve Ross. Why can't the greedy screwball use his only money to improve the stadium or get help from the NFL. He asked for 400 million dollars by asking for a tax on Hotels. Not much sacrifice from a greedy pig that only wants more money. The NFL makes umpteen billions on the Superbowl and endorsements themselves.

The taxpayers of Florida , which is experiencing decaying bridges , roads and schools and crime? Do we not need help? Why make billionaires
richer at the taxpayers at our expense? The scumbag lost!!

Why make the NFL richer at our cost? $30 dollars for parking, 100 dollars for tix, 8 dollars for a beer; $30 for miscellaneous costs for popcorn, etc.. ONLY ONE GAME!!!

Sick Pig and Lobbyists lost this battle!!!

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Chris Fountain

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andrewt

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GRNRBITW
i'm sure chuck leavell is gonna be blamed for this...so sad.

Why sad? Don't be sad.

This Friday, the Florida House of Reps denied the renovation of Dolphin Stadium (aka Sunlife Stadium). We were trying once again to be ripped off by another Billionaire to try to con voters for the need of a new baseball stadium in the worse part of Miami.

The proponent of the renovations for Dolphin Stadium is worth 4 billion dollars -named Steve Ross. Why can't the greedy screwball use his only money to improve the stadium or get help from the NFL. He asked for 400 million dollars by asking for a tax on Hotels. Not much sacrifice from a greedy pig that only wants more money. The NFL makes umpteen billions on the Superbowl and endorsements themselves.

The taxpayers of Florida , which is experiencing decaying bridges , roads and schools and crime? Do we not need help? Why make billionaires
richer at the taxpayers at our expense? The scumbag lost!!

Why make the NFL richer at our cost? $30 dollars for parking, 100 dollars for tix, 8 dollars for a beer; $30 for miscellaneous costs for popcorn, etc.. ONLY ONE GAME!!!

Sick Pig and Lobbyists lost this battle!!!

Oh great, now the Stones can't even be the #1 greedy bastards.

I just cannot believe how wrong the Stones and AEG got this. I mean we are only 4 years removed from the Great Recession and it still sucks out there and the prices for mediocre seats was just fantasy.

I think all true Stones fans wanted to see a proper end game for a band that has played the tune nearly perfectly for 50 years - it is hubris and worse yet simply pitiful homework on everyone''s part for the tour planning.

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Rip This
....hey coach....put that kid Taylor in.....get rid of some of the warhorses and do a 4-5 song set with Taylor and they'd sell out in minutes...and get a ton of buzz

I doubt it. The average fan these days could care less who plays guitar with them live, just what are they playing live. The HITS. We here at IORR really have that historical fanboy approacth to their music, where the guitarists are what matters to us. And what songs they play. Really, you look at the set list. This is a greatest hits tour, nothing more. Really good hits mind you! But I wouldn't expect too much out of the box thinking from The Stones camp at this point. This almost seems like it is an exercise they just want to get over with.

Complete and utter nonsense by the Guardian. But typical and expected! They have no idea what the private negotiations are, or what anybody is being paid. They quote un-named "sources" and 1 disgruntled "fan". LOL! ZERO credibility! What nobody mentions is that LA was full come showtime regardless of tix prices, and I expect the same for Oakland tonight.

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bigbitch
I just cannot believe how wrong the Stones and AEG got this. I mean we are only 4 years removed from the Great Recession and it still sucks out there and the prices for mediocre seats was just fantasy.

I think all true Stones fans wanted to see a proper end game for a band that has played the tune nearly perfectly for 50 years - it is hubris and worse yet simply pitiful homework on everyone''s part for the tour planning.

Bring in Cohl for the Fall 2013 Tour.

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SWAYZ
Complete and utter nonsense by the Guardian. But typical and expected! They have no idea what the private negotiations are, or what anybody is being paid. They quote un-named "sources" and 1 disgruntled "fan". LOL! ZERO credibility! What nobody mentions is that LA was full come showtime regardless of tix prices, and I expect the same for Oakland tonight.

The Guardian is not the Mirror.
LA was not full.
The music industry can't keep a secret.

Maybe the reason The Stones did the high priced tickets is to try and make it harder for scalpers to make a profit on tickets - because really how much more can they get get on top of the prices of the original ticket price ..? The Stones and AEG are the scalpers - haha

Think about it -- if they charged $100 or so - boom ! Show would be sold out in minutes but, who would have all the tix? Agencies and scalpers and the fans would end up paying $500- $600 for prime seats after all and who makes the profit?

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HalloweenJack
Maybe the reason The Stones did the high priced tickets is to try and make it harder for scalpers to make a profit on tickets - because really how much more can they get get on top of the prices of the original ticket price ..? The Stones and AEG are the scalpers - haha

Think about it -- if they charged $100 or so - boom ! Show would be sold out in minutes but, who would have all the tix? Agencies and scalpers and the fans would end up paying $500- $600 for prime seats after all and who makes the profit?

It takes a fox to outfox a fox. Or something like that.

Exactly

If the Stones charged a reasonable amount for these tickets they would sell out in seconds as the price drop in L.A. proved. The vast majority of Stones fans simply can't afford to drop $1,250 on two mediocre tickets for a two hour rock concert...This isn't rocket science.

Having looked at the videos from L-A, what a joke. The Stones are a very overpriced oldies band and this is from a fan from 1964 onward. There's nothing new or exciting to make someone want to pay the moeny they're charging. A few deep album cuts thrown into the mix don't make the ticket worth the price. No one needs to pay what the Stones are charging to hear Start Me Up or Honky Tonk Women for the umptheenth time or Keith croaking out his obligatory two songs. I'd rather listen to their albums or some well chosen bootlegs from back in the day. I can't help when looking at the Stones now but think of the line from the movie "I'm Not There" where the non Bob Dylan Bob Dylan notes the presence of Brian Jones at an event and says, regarding Jones, "Y'know, he's a member of the Rolling Stones, that groovy cover band from England." That's what the Stones are these days, their own best covers band. For my taste, I'll pay the frieght to see the Stones on an all acoustic tour doing old blues, their blues and a few well chosen deep album cuts. Ain't no other reason tom pay much of anything to see them. Interestingly, I am listening to David Bromberg's song, "Dehlia (She's All I've Got)", right now as I write this. This is the kind of stuff the Stones should be doing. If they did stuff like this we'd all be in the audience going "Holy shit, man, these guys are cuttin' it big time".

Thanks dmay for the heads up on David Bromberg's version of Delia, very nice!





I've only been familiar with Dylan's version, and the original version by Blind Willie McTell which I believe to be the superior of them all.





_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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dmay
Having looked at the videos from L-A, what a joke. The Stones are a very overpriced oldies band and this is from a fan from 1964 onward. There's nothing new or exciting to make someone want to pay the moeny they're charging. A few deep album cuts thrown into the mix don't make the ticket worth the price. No one needs to pay what the Stones are charging to hear Start Me Up or Honky Tonk Women for the umptheenth time or Keith croaking out his obligatory two songs. I'd rather listen to their albums or some well chosen bootlegs from back in the day. I can't help when looking at the Stones now but think of the line from the movie "I'm Not There" where the non Bob Dylan Bob Dylan notes the presence of Brian Jones at an event and says, regarding Jones, "Y'know, he's a member of the Rolling Stones, that groovy cover band from England." That's what the Stones are these days, their own best covers band. For my taste, I'll pay the frieght to see the Stones on an all acoustic tour doing old blues, their blues and a few well chosen deep album cuts. Ain't no other reason tom pay much of anything to see them. Interestingly, I am listening to David Bromberg's song, "Dehlia (She's All I've Got)", right now as I write this. This is the kind of stuff the Stones should be doing. If they did stuff like this we'd all be in the audience going "Holy shit, man, these guys are cuttin' it big time".

I'm sad to say I'm with you on this...I've got wonderful memories of shows I've seen..but I really find it hard to watch them now...

I agree totally dmay and gibson. Like you guys, many fond memories but this is a step too far. In a way though it was inevitable that it would end this way. There was never going to be an easy way or an "honourable" way to check out and in the end like many "superstars" they end up in a different world believing their own press. Thanks for the memories.

My own opinion is that the Guardian article is pretty much bang on .....

[www.guardian.co.uk]

I'm not one of these people that loves to revel in the prospect of the Stones playing to "a half empty house", let me just say that from the outset. Apart from anything else, I've never actually believed that on the day of any given show, they would in fact be so doing. In that respect I think I've been proven largely correct over the years, because of the countless shows I've been to over those years, come show time ......... guess what ? The houses have been basically full. No surprises there.

The question to ask though, is what particular mechanism(s) have been employed to consistently get those houses full ? It is pretty clear that in the case of today, USA 2013, the principal mechanism has been nothing more complicated than flooding the market late in the day with a mass of tickets, either further priced at $85 - or otherwise lowered in price from when they originally went on sale.

So doing simply tells you one thing, you've priced yourself too high. That's it ....... nothing more, nothing else.

I really don't see why some people on this board are being dismissed as whiners and moaners and negative posters and all that nonsense, when rather like me, they're merely commenting on a simple indisputable fact that's in plain view for everyone to see for themselves ........... the prices are too high and the market has spoken. What the f**k is there to argue about ?

As for myself, I adore the Stones, seen 'em approximately 60 times since Knebworth in the summer of 1976, am going to Hyde Park to see them on both dates, have Tier 1 plus Unwind Bar tickets at £399 ($625) for the first date and Tier 1 without the bar package at £299 ($470) for the second, so I'm not exactly afraid to spend money on 'em !!

BUT, $1500 for the pit in the States at the moment, and $630 or so for a seat at the arse end of an arena, which is what they're asking ....... that's a step too far I'm afraid.

Even allowing for the fickle nature of the British weather, I can't wait for Saturday 6th July and 13th July 2013, to be in the company of like-minded friends and Stones nuts, and have a blast at Hyde Park. And yes ..... we'll rock out in a big way to what will probably be an even more conservative and predictable "greatest hits" setlist than certainly the Staples Center LA was, but for me ..... part of the pure magic of the Stones being on tour has forever gone.

Every Stones tour, every Stones gig ........ has its price. And as the Guardian article in so many words essentially points out, for a lot of people, the current asking price is simply one that is proving to be too high.

End of ................ !!

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

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Gibson668

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dmay
Having looked at the videos from L-A, what a joke. The Stones are a very overpriced oldies band and this is from a fan from 1964 onward. There's nothing new or exciting to make someone want to pay the moeny they're charging. A few deep album cuts thrown into the mix don't make the ticket worth the price. No one needs to pay what the Stones are charging to hear Start Me Up or Honky Tonk Women for the umptheenth time or Keith croaking out his obligatory two songs. I'd rather listen to their albums or some well chosen bootlegs from back in the day. I can't help when looking at the Stones now but think of the line from the movie "I'm Not There" where the non Bob Dylan Bob Dylan notes the presence of Brian Jones at an event and says, regarding Jones, "Y'know, he's a member of the Rolling Stones, that groovy cover band from England." That's what the Stones are these days, their own best covers band. For my taste, I'll pay the frieght to see the Stones on an all acoustic tour doing old blues, their blues and a few well chosen deep album cuts. Ain't no other reason tom pay much of anything to see them. Interestingly, I am listening to David Bromberg's song, "Dehlia (She's All I've Got)", right now as I write this. This is the kind of stuff the Stones should be doing. If they did stuff like this we'd all be in the audience going "Holy shit, man, these guys are cuttin' it big time".

I'm sad to say I'm with you on this...I've got wonderful memories of shows I've seen..but I really find it hard to watch them now...

True true. There's a lot of willing suspension of objectivity when some folks comment on the videos. Fact is, they are rather boring and one has to stretch to find qualifiers like "good effort" to describe the performances.

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whitem8

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Rip This
....hey coach....put that kid Taylor in.....get rid of some of the warhorses and do a 4-5 song set with Taylor and they'd sell out in minutes...and get a ton of buzz

I doubt it. The average fan these days could care less who plays guitar with them live, just what are they playing live. The HITS. We here at IORR really have that historical fanboy approacth to their music, where the guitarists are what matters to us. And what songs they play. Really, you look at the set list. This is a greatest hits tour, nothing more. Really good hits mind you! But I wouldn't expect too much out of the box thinking from The Stones camp at this point. This almost seems like it is an exercise they just want to get over with.

Sadly you are right. When Taylor played at the O2 the girl in front of me turned round and asked who it was. There are people like my brother who is going this time, (to Hyde Park), having never seen them before because he realises this might really be the last time. He expects to hear all the hits and obviously he will. Actually I'm quite impressed with the way they're mixing up the setlist so far given that there's only going to be a few songs that are on rotation. Who ever thought we'd be hearing Factory Girl or Rooster at this stage of the game? And after all I said about unwanted guests I've got to admit Tom Waits was terrific. So far I'm really happy with what I'm seeing and hearing this time round. Just a bit more Taylor and I'll be ecstatic!

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HalloweenJack
Maybe the reason The Stones did the high priced tickets is to try and make it harder for scalpers to make a profit on tickets - because really how much more can they get get on top of the prices of the original ticket price ..? The Stones and AEG are the scalpers - haha

Think about it -- if they charged $100 or so - boom ! Show would be sold out in minutes but, who would have all the tix? Agencies and scalpers and the fans would end up paying $500- $600 for prime seats after all and who makes the profit?

I'm sure you can make a scalper proof ticketing system. Glastonbury is pretty good, isn't it? So I simply don't buy the scalper argument.

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paulywaul
My own opinion is that the Guardian article is pretty much bang on .....

[www.guardian.co.uk]

I'm not one of these people that loves to revel in the prospect of the Stones playing to "a half empty house", let me just say that from the outset. Apart from anything else, I've never actually believed that on the day of any given show, they would in fact be so doing. In that respect I think I've been proven largely correct over the years, because of the countless shows I've been to over those years, come show time ......... guess what ? The houses have been basically full. No surprises there.

The question to ask though, is what particular mechanism(s) have been employed to consistently get those houses full ? It is pretty clear that in the case of today, USA 2013, the principal mechanism has been nothing more complicated than flooding the market late in the day with a mass of tickets, either further priced at $85 - or otherwise lowered in price from when they originally went on sale.

So doing simply tells you one thing, you've priced yourself too high. That's it ....... nothing more, nothing else.

I really don't see why some people on this board are being dismissed as whiners and moaners and negative posters and all that nonsense, when rather like me, they're merely commenting on a simple indisputable fact that's in plain view for everyone to see for themselves ........... the prices are too high and the market has spoken. What the f**k is there to argue about ?

As for myself, I adore the Stones, seen 'em approximately 60 times since Knebworth in the summer of 1976, am going to Hyde Park to see them on both dates, have Tier 1 plus Unwind Bar tickets at £399 ($625) for the first date and Tier 1 without the bar package at £299 ($470) for the second, so I'm not exactly afraid to spend money on 'em !!

BUT, $1500 for the pit in the States at the moment, and $630 or so for a seat at the arse end of an arena, which is what they're asking ....... that's a step too far I'm afraid.

Even allowing for the fickle nature of the British weather, I can't wait for Saturday 6th July and 13th July 2013, to be in the company of like-minded friends and Stones nuts, and have a blast at Hyde Park. And yes ..... we'll rock out in a big way to what will probably be an even more conservative and predictable "greatest hits" setlist than certainly the Staples Center LA was, but for me ..... part of the pure magic of the Stones being on tour has forever gone.

Every Stones tour, every Stones gig ........ has its price. And as the Guardian article in so many words essentially points out, for a lot of people, the current asking price is simply one that is proving to be too high.

End of ................ !!

An excellent post, and I advice anyone having an opinion of the ticketgate - for or against - to read it carefully (and I think Paulywaul's stance is pretty neutral, unlike mine).

We live in a world where the supply and damand settles the game - call it free market or capitalism - but in the end of the day the band/AEG have made some serious miscalculations. To me they they took their chances - with their greediness they really tested the market to see how far it can go, and probably have learned by now that there is a limit in everything.

There is a part of me that is happy for their failure. Namely, what the Stones do first, the lesser acts do next. That's been the name of the game since the late 60's. If this had been a total success - the tickets would have sold as they used to do - surely that have an impact to tickets over-all in future. Now - I hope - this turns out to be a warning for the whole business.

It is for that reason I really was shocked when I first heard the prices of the shows last year. Is there any common sense in pricing anymore? Surely there always will be customers who will pay anything, but that's the route to "elitist" fun, the real Vegas route (and not the symbolistic one I've been vocal about for ages here). Is that really the result of the career of the greatest rock and roll band of all time, loved by millions during the decades, but finally a privileged fun for some wealthy folks? Because "they can"? What saddened me here at IORR was that the idea that in a theory should have made people happy and closer to each other - to see The Stones live again - divided people to different blocks in regards to the pricing. For those who see the tickets prices alright tended to see the other people as "whiners", who should be shut up (or should have saved their pennies during the last five years to be prepaired, or should have worked harder in their lives, etc.) And then those others who just voiced their opinion against the ticket prices, and voted with their feet (out of necessity or out of principle or out of common sense). There is no duobt where my heart and stance is in this matter. I simply hated to to see the Stones community to be divided by the greed of our heroes which is justified by the simple law of demand and supply. It simply alianates a rather big amount of the fans.

So I am glad that it is the American customers who are now voting with their feet and stopping this madness. There, if anywhere, the free market and the supply/demand are appreciated, and its voice has a significance. That's the voice also mr. Jagger listens to. Well done, Americans, for not accepting any damn shit. Don't make the greediness of some living legends to make rock and roll some elitist fun. They do it if they can.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-06 12:54 by Doxa.

Yep, all good things come to an end, but other than the Stones/Streisand/Eagles, most bands had stayed within "reasonable" limits I believe? The Who, Fleetwood Mac for instance, Macca a bit less, not sure about U2s pricing though.

I remember agonizing (for a few minutes) in October when I scored a pit ticket for O2/25th in the pit via the FB sale...£406 seemed incredibly expensive but I rationalized it by : it's the pit/real close, haven't seen them since 2002, couldn't believe my luck getting one when it seemed they would only be sold via the £1180 packages. Somehow I didn't feel too bad after deciding to buy the ticket and even less so of course after that great show. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have paid that to be sitting though, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gone for the current $1500 pit package, that's just crazy money, even by my/our distorted standards.

The other solace to be found in this financial fiasco possibly is that the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make, especially in their financial position and so late in the game. Kind of a "wake up call", the only one they would listen to and after all who's going to refuse money being thrown at you? So they might try to connect back with what made start all of this 50 years ago, try to create some meaningful new music, or record heartfelt covers...That or maybe they'll just decide it's not worth their effort anymore and they'll go into full/semi-retirement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-06 14:02 by gotdablouse.

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gotdablouse
The other solace to be found in this financial fiasco possibly is that the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make, especially in their financial position and so late in the game. Kind of a "wake up call", the only one they would listen to and who's going to refuse money being thrown at you? So they might try to connect back with what made start all of this 50 years ago, try to create some meaningful new music, or record heartfelt covers...That or maybe they'll just decide it's not worth their effort anymore and they'll go into full/semi-retirement.

I hope this will happen all the more that this whole situation should unite them - we are against all - and given that they are now in a great shape

Eloquent and masterful post Doxa.
As was Paulywaul's and others.
All this has been true for a while but it is finally laid bare on this tour.
The music has now become as secondary to the public as it has been to the band for a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-06 13:52 by andrewt.

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andrewt
Eloquent and masterful post Doxa.
As was Paulywaul's and others.
All this has been true for a while but it is finally laid bare on this tour.

...Since you sum it up so nicely, imo,
I only need to quote your post (and not Doxa's and/or Paulywaul's too...)
and put some under it.

thx!

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proudmary

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gotdablouse
The other solace to be found in this financial fiasco possibly is that the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make, especially in their financial position and so late in the game. Kind of a "wake up call", the only one they would listen to and who's going to refuse money being thrown at you? So they might try to connect back with what made start all of this 50 years ago, try to create some meaningful new music, or record heartfelt covers...That or maybe they'll just decide it's not worth their effort anymore and they'll go into full/semi-retirement.

I hope this will happen all the more that this whole situation should unite them - we are against all - and given that they are now in a great shape

While it is nice to see Ron & Keith managing their most pressing health issues well, as a band I haven't seen evidence that they are on such great form.
They still manage to drop the ball on the warhorse performances on a nightly basis, even though the set is constructed such that they should be able to breeze through it with their eyes closed.
Songs like Gimme Shelter and YCAGWYW are trotted out devoid of the soul that made the original tracks so memorable.
Even a great opportunity to collaborate with an artist like Tom Waits turns in a passionless rendition of Little Red Rooster that relies on the novelty value due to the cameo but as a blues is flat as a pancake. It is a mere shell of the Atlantic City '89 version, never mind what came before that.
If anything, the blues should have been the one thing age would not affect the performance of, but the evidence points to the contrary.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-06 14:11 by andrewt.

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proudmary

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gotdablouse
The other solace to be found in this financial fiasco possibly is that the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make, especially in their financial position and so late in the game. Kind of a "wake up call", the only one they would listen to and who's going to refuse money being thrown at you? So they might try to connect back with what made start all of this 50 years ago, try to create some meaningful new music, or record heartfelt covers...That or maybe they'll just decide it's not worth their effort anymore and they'll go into full/semi-retirement.

I hope this will happen all the more that this whole situation should unite them - we are against all - and given that they are now in a great shape

Yeah and these guys are proud and will likely feel stung/hurt/sheepish about this whole fiasco, like how did we let this happen...

I remember reading a very long time ago in a nice book on the 81/82 tour that Mick had finally let himself be convinced of touring again in spite of their age (hehe...), John Lennon assassination, etc...because he didn't want to go out on the '78 tour that was apparently thought at the time to have been some kind of failure (not sure why).

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gotdablouse

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proudmary

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gotdablouse
The other solace to be found in this financial fiasco possibly is that the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make, especially in their financial position and so late in the game. Kind of a "wake up call", the only one they would listen to and who's going to refuse money being thrown at you? So they might try to connect back with what made start all of this 50 years ago, try to create some meaningful new music, or record heartfelt covers...That or maybe they'll just decide it's not worth their effort anymore and they'll go into full/semi-retirement.

I hope this will happen all the more that this whole situation should unite them - we are against all - and given that they are now in a great shape

Yeah and these guys are proud and will likely feel stung/hurt/sheepish about this whole fiasco, like how did we let this happen...

I remember reading a very long time ago in a nice book on the 81/82 tour that Mick had finally let himself be convinced of touring again in spite of their age (hehe...), John Lennon assassination, etc...because he didn't want to go out on the '78 tour that was apparently thought at the time to have been some kind of failure (not sure why).

.

That assumes there is anyone left in their inner circle that will tell it to them straight.

You think they're being sheltered of the news of the financial fiasco at play? Not Mick surely? BTW did he make any indirect comments last night about ticket prices like he did again in LA the other day? That could be a sign...

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gotdablouse
the Stones, and especially Mick, are going to feel "stung" and realize it's just wrong to gauge their success on how much money they can make

Imo the "tour that grossed most money this year" charts went to a lot of ppl's head including Bono (good for him, I hate the guy) and alas Mick!
The "degree of satisfaction among shows attendees" should the one the band should look to!

Time to switch paradigms, Mick!

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gotdablouse
You think they're being sheltered of the news of the financial fiasco at play? Not Mick surely? BTW did he make any indirect comments last night about ticket prices like he did again in LA the other day? That could be a sign...

That's true about Mick. We'll see if that changes the approach in the future.