First, may I express my sympathy for those concerned. Thanks for your statistics, Firebird. It clearly shows that the more guns you have in a society the more people killed by guns. In more civilized (in this aspect) countries only military (or police and security) personell are allowed to have automatic or semi-automatic rifles. And you must have a license to be able to own a firearm of any sorts. There are good reasons for that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-22 03:33 by Stoneage.

The one thing that the above statistics fail to point out is that the mjority of gun deaths in the US are concentrated in the large urban centers, and the majority of victims are young black men shot by other young black men. Outside of urban high crime areas, your chances of being a victim of gun violence are miniscule. Besides stricter gun laws, another big reason why gun deaths are so much less in Europe and Canada is that they have relatively homogeneous populations without a multi-generational underclass that is not integrated into the mainstream of society. Of course this is all related to the history of American racism and is a problem we have wrestled with not just since the civil rights movement of the 1960's, or since our civil war of the 1860's, but since the very founding of our nation.

Gimmie Shelter

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More Hot Rocks
No guns, much less death.

No guns, much more bombs--just ask the IRA.

The problem with talking about this is it satisfies the killer's "Herostratus Syndrome" cravings. The reason sociopaths like him do deeds like this in the first place.

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Title5Take1
The problem with talking about this is it satisfies the killer's "Herostratus Syndrome" cravings.

Only if he's logged onto IORR.

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firebird
To: treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu


US:

Population: 314 million
Murders by guns: 9484


Australia, England, Germany and Canada together:

Population: 192 million
Murders by guns: 468


murders per million:
US: 9484 / 314 = 30.2
Australia, England, Germany and Canada together 468 / 192 = 2.4

treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu please explain why the annual average of murders by guns is thirteen times higher in the US compared to this other states if the availability of guns is not the reason.

Source please?

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treaclefingers

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msw2525

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MingSubu
People kill, not guns.

Thank you for saying this!

People, if they want to do harm to others are going to it regardless of guns being legal or illegal or whatever. If they are determined nothing is going to stop them, and people acting like making gun ownership illegal across the board is a solution to stop crazy people from doing horrible things are being ignorant and incredibly naive.

So true.

It's not the guns fault, it's the people's fault. The only thing that guns do is allow the person to kill huge numbers of people.

That is also not the gun's fault. Poor gun gets all the blame.

I don't agree with you guys .

You can tell that guns don't kill,people do but if the country /the state gives the opportunity of owning a gun to somebody who is already violent and agressive ,then it's an open door to that kind of tragedy .
OK,you can kill someone by beating him/her or with a knife but with a gun there are no chance left to escape .
Believe me ,I know what I am talking about .


It's well known that there is a problem with weapons in America .I am not saying this but many American do .
Here in France we have too some murders due to gangs who own war weapons ,assault riffle etc .But less than in America.

Let me tell you about something that occured some months ago .The story by itself is quite stupid but please read the comment an American friend of mine made after I told him about the story.

One day I went to the supermarket and when I left the parking lot,my cell phone rang.I NEVER answer my cell when I am driving my car but since my cell was open I could see my daughter was calling .It was classroom time so I got worried and pick up the phone because I was afraid something had occured .
I tried to park my car again so I could talk to her.

The car that was in front of me suddenly stopped and didn't move .I hung the phone and I could hear the driver yelling at me ' you ,stupid bitch,don't you know it's forbidden to use a cell while driving ? I won't move my car "

I decided to get off my car to ask the man if he could move his car so I could drive .
He said no.
I got upset and opened the door of his car ,I asked him to move his f*****g car because it was an emergency ."How do you know my daughter isn't injured in an hospital you poor idiot "
I think the man got scared and he immediately moved.

I related that story to an American friend of mine and do you know what he told me ? Something like
<< Wow ,you couldn't do that in America !! You would put yourself in danger because in America ,instead of leaving ,the driver would have pulled a gun from under his car seat and would have shoot you in the head "

My friend was right ,wasn't he ?



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

America is a sexually repressed society based on mythical achievement of status.
You can buy guns and ammo, watch insane violence on TV but one ounce of skin or sexual reference gets you an R movie rating. Kill people on screen and it PG or PG 13.

This guy was in the theater. He knew that women, children and even babies (why a parent would take their kids is beyond me) and he went out the side exit, propped the door open, changed into armor and strapped on the guns only to return and shoot at innocent people.

America is imploding all on it's own.

There have been massive gun shootings in countries that ban fireweapon...

"guns make us safer" may have proved wrong, but so did "no guns make us safer", ask Breivii's victims.

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beepee
There have been massive gun shootings in countries that ban fireweapon...

"guns make us safer" may have proved wrong, but so did "no guns make us safer", ask Breivii's victims.

Yes. This is a good point to remember.

In terms of self defense does anyone need more than one gun or a gun that can shoot 60 or more bullets in a minute? And how is it possible for a citizen to buy a smoke grenade or tear gas?

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beepee
There have been massive gun shootings in countries that ban fireweapon...

"guns make us safer" may have proved wrong, but so did "no guns make us safer", ask Breivii's victims.

Your completely right...the last time it happen in my country the lunatic was a member of a shooting association and was aloud to take his weapons to his home.......which shouldn't be aloud IMO normally they leave them at the shooting association locked up in a vault.

I'm 58 and never saw a real gun in my entire live



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-22 17:00 by NICOS.

Writer Jamelle Bouie has a thoughtful perspective on the tragedy:

"We don’t have enough information to make a judgment about what happened, much less use it to argue any point. What’s more, there’s something disrespectful in the rush to debate; let’s mourn for the victims before we begin to argue causes or consequences. It may well be the case that this shooting warrants a renewed national conversation over the wisdom of loose gun control. But it’s important to recognize the extent to which stricter gun laws aren’t a solution that will do away with mass shootings. If you are determined to kill a lot of people, you’ll find a way to meet your goal; after all, illegal guns work just as well as legal ones.

Finally, I want to second tech writer Anil Dash when he suggests that we look at this from the perspective of our culture and not our politics. He writes, “We marginalize & neglect our sons when they feel vulnerable, stigmatize depression & schizophrenia, and treat violence as entertainment.” Does the easy availability of firearms make mass shootings more likely than they otherwise would be? Probably. But Dash hits on a more important truth: Our treatment and understanding of mental illness is not a priority in our culture, especially when it comes to men, and it should be. What’s more, even when it comes to mentally healthy men, there are few socially acceptable ways to express their fears, their pain, and their anxieties, and boys are still raised to reject emotional expression as somehow un-masculine. “Stop crying, be a man” is still a thing that parents say to their sons, and it’s incredibly destructive.

If we really want to know why the Colorado shooting happened — or why men make up the vast majority of mass shooters — we might want to move our focus away from politics, and towards a discussion of the kind of culture we live in."

I want to make clear that I don't think there is any excuse for what James Holmes did, but I agree that there is a larger issue here than just gun control.

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SwayStones

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treaclefingers

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msw2525

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MingSubu
People kill, not guns.

Thank you for saying this!

People, if they want to do harm to others are going to it regardless of guns being legal or illegal or whatever. If they are determined nothing is going to stop them, and people acting like making gun ownership illegal across the board is a solution to stop crazy people from doing horrible things are being ignorant and incredibly naive.

So true.

It's not the guns fault, it's the people's fault. The only thing that guns do is allow the person to kill huge numbers of people.

That is also not the gun's fault. Poor gun gets all the blame.

I don't agree with you guys .

My friend was right ,wasn't he ?

I don't agree with us guys either.
I thought my sarcasm was obvious, but obviously not!
I do agree with the argument, guns don't kill people, people kill people. People just happen to kill more people with guns...so, outlaw guns and you save more people.

Agree????.....not sure.......................lunatics they were and always will be (has nothing to be with now and then)

__________________________

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NICOS
Agree????.....not sure.......................lunatics they were and always will be (has nothing to be with now and then)

Yes, I just don't see the logic of arming the lunatics. There isn't any point...the lunatics are always going to be there...why allow them to operate at a high volume rate?

The stats on this speak for themselves, as has been pointed out even on this thread.

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dcba
And was the movie good? Because frankly, the previous "Dark Knight" was a bloated expensive turd.

Getting shot while watching a bad movie is imho terminally tacky...

The only thing I can think to say is that's a pretty f-ucked up thing to post.

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MingSubu

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firebird
To: treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu


US:

Population: 314 million
Murders by guns: 9484


Australia, England, Germany and Canada together:

Population: 192 million
Murders by guns: 468


murders per million:
US: 9484 / 314 = 30.2
Australia, England, Germany and Canada together 468 / 192 = 2.4

treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu please explain why the annual average of murders by guns is thirteen times higher in the US compared to this other states if the availability of guns is not the reason.

Source please?

Why should I? You will doubt any source I come up with. Just do some research for yourself.

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firebird

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MingSubu

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firebird
To: treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu


US:

Population: 314 million
Murders by guns: 9484


Australia, England, Germany and Canada together:

Population: 192 million
Murders by guns: 468


murders per million:
US: 9484 / 314 = 30.2
Australia, England, Germany and Canada together 468 / 192 = 2.4

treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu please explain why the annual average of murders by guns is thirteen times higher in the US compared to this other states if the availability of guns is not the reason.

Source please?

Why should I? You will doubt any source I come up with. Just do some research for yourself.

These don't seem like terribly outlandish stats...and for the record, I'm not in with the 'in crowd' here...sorry MingSubu.

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rogue
America is a sexually repressed society based on mythical achievement of status.
You can buy guns and ammo, watch insane violence on TV but one ounce of skin or sexual reference gets you an R movie rating. Kill people on screen and it PG or PG 13.

This guy was in the theater. He knew that women, children and even babies (why a parent would take their kids is beyond me) and he went out the side exit, propped the door open, changed into armor and strapped on the guns only to return and shoot at innocent people.

America is imploding all on it's own.

Idiot comment by a ...

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Stones62

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dcba
And was the movie good? Because frankly, the previous "Dark Knight" was a bloated expensive turd.

Getting shot while watching a bad movie is imho terminally tacky...

The only thing I can think to say is that's a pretty f-ucked up thing to post.

Getting shot while watching a bad movie is like getting incinerated at a Great White concert twenty years after Great White's sell-by date.

If anyone thinks he understands why this clown shot up that theatre,
he / she may need a counselor too. I don't even want to understand.
They say we can't get to the core of a problem 'til we understand
what's causing it. There's nothing to comprehend here. The guy was
either mental or evil and felt that hurting others would equal whatever
was wrong with his life. This is why we need to separate ourselves from
such "persons". That's why we incarcerate or, as this case demands,
destroy the destroyers.

"The only thing I can think to say is that's a pretty f-ucked up thing to post."

That's bleak humor. What else can you do except restate the obvious ("tragedy" "horrible event" "what a sicko" "I'm in shock").

What puzzled me is the fact that several movie-goers thought the shooting was part of the movie... hence my sick joke.

My point is : how many ppl are killed onscreen during this 3rd "Dark Knight" movie? 50? 100?
I saw the 2nd DK and it was a disgusting pointless bloodbath from start to finish. Human beings used as props and disposed of at a sickening rate. Stupid movies that solely rely on acts of violence upon acts of violence could the way for sickos.

Could this have happened during a Woody Allen film...? Think about it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-22 23:14 by dcba.

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dcba
"The only thing I can think to say is that's a pretty f-ucked up thing to post."

That's bleak humor. What else can you do expect restate the obvious ("tragedy" "horrible event" "what a sicko" "I'm in shock" ).

What puzzled me is the fact that several movie-goers thought the shooting was part of the movie... hence my sick joke.

My point is : how many ppl are killed onscreen during this 3rd "Dark Knight" movie? 50? 100? I saw the 2nd DK and it was a disgusting bloodbath from start to finish. Freely available weapons are a problem but stupid movies that solely rely on acts of violence upon acts of violence are one, too (imo).

Could this have happened during a Woody Allen film...? Think about it!

It could have happened anywhere at any time. It's the one year anniversary of the tragic shootings in Norway. Was that during a violent movie?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-22 23:14 by sweetcharmedlife.

Except it happened once in Norway. How much time do we have to wait before a similar incident happens in the US? One month? Six months?

One of the victims was 6. WTF was she doing watching a super-violent movie at midnite? Her parents have no common sense?

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dcba
Could this have happened during a Woody Allen film...? Think about it!

Why should I think about it when you obviously haven't?

The shooting had NOTHING to do with the film. If a Woody Allen movie could have gathered a sold out theatre of people to watch a movie at midnight...it could've happened there also. The killer needed a large group of people gathering to make his 'statement'...he found it, five miles from his apartment where he knew there would be a large gathering there. The Dark Knight is one of millions of movies made over the last century that depicts violence.

People are desperate to find a scapegoat in the middle of all this but you're not going to find it. There was a whole sh*tstorm of factors that brought us (and the killer) to this point: the media (for the notoriety that would be guaranteed to be there after the event), the internet (for the ridiculously easy method it was to buy weapons and and ammunition at an ALARMING quantity) and the relaxed gun control laws in this country. You bring all that together and welcome to 2012...isn't it great?

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firebird

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MingSubu

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firebird
To: treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu


US:

Population: 314 million
Murders by guns: 9484


Australia, England, Germany and Canada together:

Population: 192 million
Murders by guns: 468


murders per million:
US: 9484 / 314 = 30.2
Australia, England, Germany and Canada together 468 / 192 = 2.4

treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu please explain why the annual average of murders by guns is thirteen times higher in the US compared to this other states if the availability of guns is not the reason.

Source please?

Why should I? You will doubt any source I come up with. Just do some research for yourself.

Knew you would type this. Make up some more stats.

I am serious though. Link me to the source.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-23 00:23 by MingSubu.

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treaclefingers

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firebird

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MingSubu

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firebird
To: treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu


US:

Population: 314 million
Murders by guns: 9484


Australia, England, Germany and Canada together:

Population: 192 million
Murders by guns: 468


murders per million:
US: 9484 / 314 = 30.2
Australia, England, Germany and Canada together 468 / 192 = 2.4

treaclefingers, msw2525 and MingSubu please explain why the annual average of murders by guns is thirteen times higher in the US compared to this other states if the availability of guns is not the reason.

Source please?

Why should I? You will doubt any source I come up with. Just do some research for yourself.

These don't seem like terribly outlandish stats...and for the record, I'm not in with the 'in crowd' here...sorry MingSubu.

Don't be sorry. No source, so she made them up.

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treaclefingers
I'm not in with the 'in crowd' here...sorry MingSubu.

You're out to us treacey....don't go in...

Just heard on the radio that neither Obama nor Romney are interested in stricter gun laws. Apparently there is no political gain in doing so.
So I guess those shooting sprees will continue. Nothing we can do about it.