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Stoneage
Basically there are two perspectives on this: the micro and the macro perspective. From an individual (micro) perspective you might benefit from owning a gun. But a state legislator must look at a broader (macro) perspective. The population as a whole is more safe the less guns there are distributed in the society. Do we have a consensus there? If not - I give up!

You forgot the boogeyman and the government that's gonna get you the moment you don't have a gun in your nightstand.

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

It's the paranoia that's dominating you gun people. The boogeyman, come on. Years and years of fear policy, well, here we see the bitter fruits of it.

The boogeyman comment was a joke- I think most people figured that out. You may want to ask yourself why you didn't. Perhaps because you are a super serious wackadoodle?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 01:28 by FrankM.

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

It's the paranoia that's dominating you gun people. The boogeyman, come on. Years and years of fear policy, well, here we see the bitter fruits of it.

Kleermaker, to stand on the other side for the moment, imagine living in a country where there are literally MILLIONS of guns...everybody either has them, or can have them with very little regulation.

This has been the case for hundreds of years.

How the hell do you make the paranoid, (which I can see why), be less paranoid.

The politics involved ensures there is NO way they will simply outlaw guns, or round them all up and destroy them. It won't happen.

So in that circumstance, if you were living in that country and could not move, what the hell would you do?

I'm not too sure what I'd do, I'd probably still not have a gun, but it would be tougher to answer.

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

OK, now I know what you're talking about.

I would say that if you stay at someone's place where there is a gun, I would find out why that person has a gun.
Would you not feel safe if that person was a law enforcement official?

In my case, I inherited my gun from my grandfather, who was a lawyer and traveled a lot during the 20s & 30s.
It's a 1919 Smith & Wesson, .32-caliber, and has not been fired in over 50 years.
It has sentimental value to me, so as of now I don't want to get rid of it.
BTW, I have yet to buy ammunition for it.

Time for a Stones tie-in here:

"You're never alone with a Smith & Wesson."
----Keith Richards, early 70s

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

So calling someone "a loon" is normal speach to you? To me it's offending and ranting. If you think my arguments and statements are loony, then try to refute them. Must be easy for someone in whose native tongue we're communicating by all means.

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kleermaker

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

You are the only one ranting and offending here kleermaker, that much is clear. Calling people rednecks and insulting like you do, it hardly deserves a response. Grow up.

As far a guns are concerned, I don't look at them as a weapon to be used against people. I'm sure in the hands of hatemakers they can be a truly terrifying thing. Maybe that's why they bother you so much. They are like guitars just tools. Yes the ones from my great grandfathers have some sentimental value but they are kept unloaded in locked cabinets, albiet nearby.

I think a few days on the organic farm with some "gun totin rednecks" might be just the thing for you. As far as human defense goes, I personally studied Gracie JuiJitsu for 15 years, mainly to be able to walk in the poor areas of third world countries without fear, it is a form of street fighting that entails putting your opponent to sleep and walking away, it has served me well in that I have never had to use in on anyone other than a grappling partner.

If you were in the areas of Brazil I frequent you would probably be screaming for friends with talents like that or you would likely become a victim. In my peaceman view the real problem is poverty. I'll bet you have never ventured into the 2/3 of the world where kids are thinking of killing you for your Nike tennis shoes? It's so easy to be a name calling hypocrite when you live in the generally American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces. Keep you personal attacks for YouTube where you can disgrace yourself more appropriately. peace

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

So calling someone "a loon" is normal speach to you? To me it's offending and ranting. If you think my arguments and statements are loony, then try to refute them. Must be easy for someone in whose native tongue we're communicating by all means.

If you compare your posts to others in this thread you can clearly see a difference. Others are able to make reasonable arguments while you rant and rave nonsense. If you don't like being called a loon then don't make loony statements. Don't blame the messenger.

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treaclefingers

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

It's the paranoia that's dominating you gun people. The boogeyman, come on. Years and years of fear policy, well, here we see the bitter fruits of it.

Kleermaker, to stand on the other side for the moment, imagine living in a country where there are literally MILLIONS of guns...everybody either has them, or can have them with very little regulation.

This has been the case for hundreds of years.

How the hell do you make the paranoid, (which I can see why), be less paranoid.

The politics involved ensures there is NO way they will simply outlaw guns, or round them all up and destroy them. It won't happen.

So in that circumstance, if you were living in that country and could not move, what the hell would you do?

I'm not too sure what I'd do, I'd probably still not have a gun, but it would be tougher to answer.

You have a point there treacle. Politicians and inhabitants keep each other in a stranglehold. The politicians do fear they are without any chance the moment they reject this situation, the inhabitants don't pressure the politicians to tackle this problem. As I said before, it's a big problem which has everything to do with the nature of American society.

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

So calling someone "a loon" is normal speach to you? To me it's offending and ranting. If you think my arguments and statements are loony, then try to refute them. Must be easy for someone in whose native tongue we're communicating by all means.

If you compare your posts to others in this thread you can clearly see a difference. Others are able to make reasonable arguments while you rant and rave nonsense. If you don't like being called a loon then don't make loony statements. Don't blame the messenger.

You're not the messenger here. If I'm telling nonsense then it's so much easier to prove that. Give it a try. Too easy to call someone a fool if you disagree. The weakest argument possible.

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

So calling someone "a loon" is normal speach to you? To me it's offending and ranting. If you think my arguments and statements are loony, then try to refute them. Must be easy for someone in whose native tongue we're communicating by all means.

If you compare your posts to others in this thread you can clearly see a difference. Others are able to make reasonable arguments while you rant and rave nonsense. If you don't like being called a loon then don't make loony statements. Don't blame the messenger.

You're not the messenger here. If I'm telling nonsense then it's so much easier to prove that. Give it a try. Too easy to call someone a fool if you disagree. The weakest argument possible.

Prove what? It's like arguing with a guy that says the sky is green. How do I refute it if someone is that far out in space?

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Basically there are two perspectives on this: the micro and the macro perspective. From an individual (micro) perspective you might benefit from owning a gun. But a state legislator must look at a broader (macro) perspective. The population as a whole is more safe the less guns there are distributed in the society. Do we have a consensus there? If not - I give up!

Beautifully succinct Stoneage. Hard to not agree with that.

yep that does make good sense

i think its gotta be pretty obvious that no matter where you live, the more guns there are in circulation, the easier it is for anybody, maniacs included, to get hold of a weapon, and ergo thereby increase the chances of rampages and massacres like in Colorado last week happening

more guns surely means more gun usage

been arguing this point for years but have yet to see a convincing argument against

ditto the seemingly obvious correllation between America's high percentage of gun ownership, lax ownership controls, regulation and registration issues, and it's appalling reputation for this kind of incident

and that does not mean i 'hate' america; its just that a fact is a fact is a fact is a fact

these such incidents are (Thank God) by comparison relatively rare events elsewhere, but it seems barely a month goes by without news of yet another gun massacre somewhere in the States. and no, i'm not anti-American by any means, but I really think many of the people there if not the country as a whole is in denial over all this

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treaclefingers

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Stoneage
Basically there are two perspectives on this: the micro and the macro perspective. From an individual (micro) perspective you might benefit from owning a gun. But a state legislator must look at a broader (macro) perspective. The population as a whole is more safe the less guns there are distributed in the society. Do we have a consensus there? If not - I give up!

Beautifully succinct Stoneage. Hard to not agree with that.

Thanks, Treaclefingers. It's comforting that there are rational people around here. I guess you can't do anything about the John Wayne types anyhow...

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

You are the only one ranting and offending here kleermaker, that much is clear. Calling people rednecks and insulting like you do, it hardly deserves a response. Grow up.

As far a guns are concerned, I don't look at them as a weapon to be used against people. I'm sure in the hands of hatemakers they can be a truly terrifying thing. Maybe that's why they bother you so much. They are like guitars just tools. Yes the ones from my great grandfathers have some sentimental value but they are kept unloaded in locked cabinets, albiet nearby.

I think a few days on the organic farm with some "gun totin rednecks" might be just the thing for you. As far as human defense goes, I personally studied Gracie JuiJitsu for 15 years, mainly to be able to walk in the poor areas of third world countries without fear, it is a form of street fighting that entails putting your opponent to sleep and walking away, it has served me well in that I have never had to use in on anyone other than a grappling partner.

If you were in the areas of Brazil I frequent you would probably be screaming for friends with talents like that or you would likely become a victim. In my peaceman view the real problem is poverty. I'll bet you have never ventured into the 2/3 of the world where kids are thinking of killing you for your Nike tennis shoes? It's so easy to be a name calling hypocrite when you live in the generally American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces. Keep you personal attacks for YouTube where you can disgrace yourself more appropriately. peace

I don't live in Canada, but in Holland. Many immigrants here as well, from about all countries of the world. If you read my posts well (which you obviously don't), then you know that I've said that this American problem (we're not talking about Brazil etc) is a societal problem that has everything to do with inequality and unjust social-economic relations between the different classes. In a way and certainly in quite some places the US is a third world country as well. Don't forget that.

To compare guns to guitars is another ridiculous thing to say. Trying to impress is a well known rhetorical trick, but it's not very convincing. Trying to analyse a problem, just what I've done, is a much better way to solve a problem or at least a means to get more insight. O wait a minute, you know it all already, as a grown-up.

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

So calling someone "a loon" is normal speach to you? To me it's offending and ranting. If you think my arguments and statements are loony, then try to refute them. Must be easy for someone in whose native tongue we're communicating by all means.

If you compare your posts to others in this thread you can clearly see a difference. Others are able to make reasonable arguments while you rant and rave nonsense. If you don't like being called a loon then don't make loony statements. Don't blame the messenger.

You're not the messenger here. If I'm telling nonsense then it's so much easier to prove that. Give it a try. Too easy to call someone a fool if you disagree. The weakest argument possible.

Prove what? It's like arguing with a guy that says the sky is green. How do I refute it if someone is that far out in space?

Well if you think it's sufficient to say things like that to an opponent in a debate then we're quickly done. Which we of course are.

How do you go about debating a loon?

Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

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FrankM
How do you go about debating a loon?

Here you go again.

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 02:26 by FrankM.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

You are the only one ranting and offending here kleermaker, that much is clear. Calling people rednecks and insulting like you do, it hardly deserves a response. Grow up.

As far a guns are concerned, I don't look at them as a weapon to be used against people. I'm sure in the hands of hatemakers they can be a truly terrifying thing. Maybe that's why they bother you so much. They are like guitars just tools. Yes the ones from my great grandfathers have some sentimental value but they are kept unloaded in locked cabinets, albiet nearby.

I think a few days on the organic farm with some "gun totin rednecks" might be just the thing for you. As far as human defense goes, I personally studied Gracie JuiJitsu for 15 years, mainly to be able to walk in the poor areas of third world countries without fear, it is a form of street fighting that entails putting your opponent to sleep and walking away, it has served me well in that I have never had to use in on anyone other than a grappling partner.

If you were in the areas of Brazil I frequent you would probably be screaming for friends with talents like that or you would likely become a victim. In my peaceman view the real problem is poverty. I'll bet you have never ventured into the 2/3 of the world where kids are thinking of killing you for your Nike tennis shoes? It's so easy to be a name calling hypocrite when you live in the generally American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces. Keep you personal attacks for YouTube where you can disgrace yourself more appropriately. peace

Wow, I haven't weighed in on this thread at all but-"American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces"-that's just so full of sh*t I don't know where to begin. Maybe our indigenous, or First Nations population, would be able to disabuse you of the "nothing but white people" argument you so brazenly threw out there. And here in B.C. I work with a whole lotta people who ain't white, dude, be they Indian, Chinese, Black, First Nations, South American, etc.

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I've judged you and especially your hypocrisy justly and you are unable to live with it. Well, you may suggest that all my posts are "unchecked", "inaccurate" and "insulting", but you're wrong. If everything I said was just nonsense, then why it's so hard for you to swallow it? You may say all these things, but I don't care. I even don't care if you say I'm "not doing my country justice". That's not my way of thinking at all.

Maybe that's another big American problem: too difficult to imagine oneself in the position of a foreigner. We see that happen all the time everywhere. I've read all your rancour against Latino's and others, claiming they get all the help and 'real' Americans don't. Anyway your knowledge of my country doesn't surpass the Wikipedia level. Which is quite low.

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FrankM

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.

Why bother so much about someone you consider a fool? Ignoring would be logic. I think I've stood on very long toes and it seems to hurt. The reason must be I've hit the bull's eye and it doesn't feel comfortable to you. Any other explanation fails.

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.

Why bother so much about someone you consider a fool? Ignoring would be logic. I think I've stood on very long toes and it seems to hurt. The reason must be I've hit the bull's eye and it doesn't feel comfortable to you. Any other explanation fails.

Loon.

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.

Why bother so much about someone you consider a fool? Ignoring would be logic. I think I've stood on very long toes and it seems to hurt. The reason must be I've hit the bull's eye and it doesn't feel comfortable to you. Any other explanation fails.

Loon.

I think you can completely disagree with Kleermaker and that is fine, but in no way are his views without logic.

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treaclefingers

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.

Why bother so much about someone you consider a fool? Ignoring would be logic. I think I've stood on very long toes and it seems to hurt. The reason must be I've hit the bull's eye and it doesn't feel comfortable to you. Any other explanation fails.

Loon.

I think you can completely disagree with Kleermaker and that is fine, but in no way are his views without logic.

Well in that case I lost a lot of respect for you Treacle. The guy rants and raves as if he is in a mental ward. Others like you up until now anyway made reasonable arguments about this issue. If you can't see the lunacy of his posts then it might speak volumes about you.

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

You are the only one ranting and offending here kleermaker, that much is clear. Calling people rednecks and insulting like you do, it hardly deserves a response. Grow up.

As far a guns are concerned, I don't look at them as a weapon to be used against people. I'm sure in the hands of hatemakers they can be a truly terrifying thing. Maybe that's why they bother you so much. They are like guitars just tools. Yes the ones from my great grandfathers have some sentimental value but they are kept unloaded in locked cabinets, albiet nearby.

I think a few days on the organic farm with some "gun totin rednecks" might be just the thing for you. As far as human defense goes, I personally studied Gracie JuiJitsu for 15 years, mainly to be able to walk in the poor areas of third world countries without fear, it is a form of street fighting that entails putting your opponent to sleep and walking away, it has served me well in that I have never had to use in on anyone other than a grappling partner.

If you were in the areas of Brazil I frequent you would probably be screaming for friends with talents like that or you would likely become a victim. In my peaceman view the real problem is poverty. I'll bet you have never ventured into the 2/3 of the world where kids are thinking of killing you for your Nike tennis shoes? It's so easy to be a name calling hypocrite when you live in the generally American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces. Keep you personal attacks for YouTube where you can disgrace yourself more appropriately. peace

I don't live in Canada, but in Holland. Many immigrants here as well, from about all countries of the world. If you read my posts well (which you obviously don't), then you know that I've said that this American problem (we're not talking about Brazil etc) is a societal problem that has everything to do with inequality and unjust social-economic relations between the different classes. In a way and certainly in quite some places the US is a third world country as well. Don't forget that.

To compare guns to guitars is another ridiculous thing to say. Trying to impress is a well known rhetorical trick, but it's not very convincing. Trying to analyse a problem, just what I've done, is a much better way to solve a problem or at least a means to get more insight. O wait a minute, you know it all already, as a grown-up.

-- uh whoa there dude

canada is 'american made' and 'copies' america??

LOL

are you nuts?

where do i start with baloney like this??

i mean we don't elect a president, we elect members to Parliament; we dont even have a president (prime minister instead)

we have a multi-party system, a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy and arepart of the British Commonwealth. the US is a republic, and not part of the commonwealth

how's that 'copying' or 'made' by the USA?

Canada was 'made' by confederation, not by americans

we have two official languages, english and french, does america? nope

we have universal, government funded (not government run) health care, does america?

nope

Canada is a multicultural country where new immigrants are encouraged to keep their culture; america is more of a melting pot

we have better health care which covers everyone rich or poor, less guns, and for those who are into it, legalized gay marriage

our cities are cleaner and safer

violent crime is much higher in the US than it is in Canada; poverty rates are lower. wealth is divided more equally among citizens

we dont invade other countries just to swipe their oil

we're good at hockey

we have real cottages

i mean i could write a thesis on this

the only thing that really makes the countries similiar is a shared common language, border, economies and in our case over saturation of crappy american media, tv shows, and movies

Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well-informed about the United States

from the loyalist in the early 1800’s on, Canada has always NOT been the United States

Canada is not like the USA. not created or 'made' by the USA and does not 'copy' the USA, kinda like how New Zealand is not like Australia. know it.

in fact americans tried to take over Canada or what was to become Canada then (war of 1812) so we burnt their white house down and won that war

Canada became a dominion of the British Empire in 1867 by confederating with neighboring colonies. before that, it was a province of the British Empire. before that, it was two provinces, Upper and Lower Canada. even prior to that, when the area was still part of New France, it was known as Canada, and it's inhabitants were known as Canadiens.

now i dont wanna be accused of being an ameria basher, because i'll have every knucklehead call me a racist and even perhaps a terrorist. don't believe me? ask any Frenchman.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 03:07 by pinkfloydthebarber.

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FrankM

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treaclefingers

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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Naturalust
Aren't a huge percentage of the people of Holland on some sort of social welfare? In addition only a 4.1% foreign population? Mind you some great rock and roll fans up there but your unchecked, inaccurate and always insulting posts are not doing you or your country any justice. peace

I'm sure most people from Holland are great people. Unfortunately this Kleer guy sounds like he's about thirty cards short of a full deck.

Why bother so much about someone you consider a fool? Ignoring would be logic. I think I've stood on very long toes and it seems to hurt. The reason must be I've hit the bull's eye and it doesn't feel comfortable to you. Any other explanation fails.

Loon.

I think you can completely disagree with Kleermaker and that is fine, but in no way are his views without logic.

Well in that case I lost a lot of respect for you Treacle. The guy rants and raves as if he is in a mental ward. Others like you up until now anyway made reasonable arguments about this issue. If you can't see the lunacy of his posts then it might speak volumes about you.

Kleermaker can be blunt and a bit ascerbic, but I do find the logic of his arguments sound. There has been a fair bit of unnecessary vitriol within this thread. I think we all understand we're not going to change each others minds, but I still find the debate interesting, nonetheless.

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pinkfloydthebarber

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kleermaker

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

You are the only one ranting and offending here kleermaker, that much is clear. Calling people rednecks and insulting like you do, it hardly deserves a response. Grow up.

As far a guns are concerned, I don't look at them as a weapon to be used against people. I'm sure in the hands of hatemakers they can be a truly terrifying thing. Maybe that's why they bother you so much. They are like guitars just tools. Yes the ones from my great grandfathers have some sentimental value but they are kept unloaded in locked cabinets, albiet nearby.

I think a few days on the organic farm with some "gun totin rednecks" might be just the thing for you. As far as human defense goes, I personally studied Gracie JuiJitsu for 15 years, mainly to be able to walk in the poor areas of third world countries without fear, it is a form of street fighting that entails putting your opponent to sleep and walking away, it has served me well in that I have never had to use in on anyone other than a grappling partner.

If you were in the areas of Brazil I frequent you would probably be screaming for friends with talents like that or you would likely become a victim. In my peaceman view the real problem is poverty. I'll bet you have never ventured into the 2/3 of the world where kids are thinking of killing you for your Nike tennis shoes? It's so easy to be a name calling hypocrite when you live in the generally American made and American copying country that is Canada. Nothing but white people in over 1/2 the provinces. Keep you personal attacks for YouTube where you can disgrace yourself more appropriately. peace

I don't live in Canada, but in Holland. Many immigrants here as well, from about all countries of the world. If you read my posts well (which you obviously don't), then you know that I've said that this American problem (we're not talking about Brazil etc) is a societal problem that has everything to do with inequality and unjust social-economic relations between the different classes. In a way and certainly in quite some places the US is a third world country as well. Don't forget that.

To compare guns to guitars is another ridiculous thing to say. Trying to impress is a well known rhetorical trick, but it's not very convincing. Trying to analyse a problem, just what I've done, is a much better way to solve a problem or at least a means to get more insight. O wait a minute, you know it all already, as a grown-up.

-- uh whoa there dude

canada is 'american made' and 'copies' america??

LOL

are you nuts?

where do i start with baloney like this??

i mean we don't elect a president, we elect members to Parliament; we dont even have a president (prime minister instead)

we have a multi-party system, a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy and arepart of the British Commonwealth. The US is a republic, and not part of the commonwealth

how's that 'copying' or 'made' by the USA?

Canada was 'made' by confederation, not by americans

we have two official languages, english and french, does america? nope

we have universal, government funded (not government run) health care, does america?

nope

Canada is a multicultural country where new immigrants are encouraged to keep there culture; america is more of a melting pot

we have better health care, less guns, and for those who are into it, legalized gay marriage

our cities are cleaner and safer

violent crime is much higher in the US than it is in Canada; poverty rates are lower. wealth is divided more equally among citizens

we dont invade other countries just to swipe their oil

we're good at hockey

we have real cottages

i mean i could write a thesis on this

the only thing that really makes the countries similiar is a shared common language, border, economies and in our case over saturation of crappy american media, tv shows, and movies

Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well-informed about the United States

from the loyalist in the early 1800’s on, Canada has always been NOT the United States

Canada is not like the USA. not created or 'made' by the USA and does not 'copy' the USA, kinda like how New Zealand is not like Australia. know it. know it.

in fact americans tried to take over Canada or what was to become Canada (war of 1812) so we burnt their white house down and won that war

Canada became a dominion of the British Empire in 1867 by confederating with neighboring colonies. before that, it was a province of the British Empire. before that, it was two provinces, Upper and Lower Canada. even prior to that, when the area was still part of New France, it was known as Canada, and it's inhabitants were known as Canadiens.

now i dont wanna be accused of being an ameria basher, because i'll have every knucklehead call me a racist and even perhaps a terrorist. don't believe me? ask any Frenchman.

In the words of a very popular commercial..."I AM CANADIAN!"...or something.

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treaclefingers
There has been a fair bit of unnecessary vitriol within this thread. I think we all understand we're not going to change each others minds, but I still find the debate interesting, nonetheless.

Monkey Grip was not vitriol just so we all understand.
That was about 19 pages ago though...Bill was right