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mr_dja
It's no longer a thread for the discussion of the shooting in Colorado or how to solve this type of problem, it's a thread for the users who dislike the USA to bash away at the laws, customs & culture of the USA.

And I thought it could be a thread for open minded people interested in other views ,opinions,experiences...without teaching.
Unfortunately the usual reflex occured whenever a topic dealing with the USA pops up and that makes me wonder...or not.
Pity.

Hey, maybe this thread should just be permanent. Forget the Sticky title, just call it Forever, since so many here feel so strongly. A permanent Editorial thread for the social issues of our time that pervade our minds more than the uniting forces of music ever could. I think for their next album, the Stones should just forget about music. They should just record 80 minutes of them sitting around talking about various news items--they could shift millions, if this thread is any indication of what really taps people's emotions.

You mean people's Mixed Emotions

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

RE:"Pinkfloydthebarber has a problem with stolen weapons from the USA being smuggled into Canada and used in crimes there. Does he/she complain about Canada's immigration policy or customs officials? No. Complaining about laws in the neighboring country is far more fun than pointing out your own country's failures."

---

well, no, you'd be wrong, and yes in fact i do complain about Canadian policy and / or lack thereof

not that you'd know it, but thanks for your feedback anyway

for example our federal govt has CUT hundreds of millions from border security funding that could go toward the prevention of gun smuggling; one minister of the crown even swiped $50 million from border security to fund an illegal re-election buy - off campaign in his own riding last election

and now this bozo and his buddies run around all concerned about gun violence and smuggling of guns from the US into the country

you think I or other Canadians don't protest this kind of stuff?

keep on dreaming pal!

but on the other hand, of course, beecause we share a long long border with the USA, we are also unindated daily through media barrages of how so many of the people there actually really believe the USA is the apex of not only earthly civilization, but of the entire universe, that they alone invented 'freedom' and that no other country on earth or civilization is as 'free' as they are

and after a while all one can do is laugh at it and how ridiculously arrogant it is

this american chick asked me not long ago 'what kind of money do you use in canada?'

i said, 'mexican. pesos.'

she believed that

what can i say?

and now they've got this new TV series starting up called 'The Bible' they are advertising

really. i kid you not

like as in a game challenge show where you have to answer bible questions correctly to win

as if American TV wasn’t getting stupid enough all the time, now they are pitching this show

the horribleness starts in August.

i kinda wonder does everyone pray onscreen or off? or in the opening credits, or closing ? i wonder what's the protocol on praying to win? is that allowed or is it cheating?

you can't make this shit up. so i am sorry if we sometimes joke at your expense, or question you gun laws etc, dude, but you really do make it too easy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 00:07 by pinkfloydthebarber.

Pinkfloydthebarber you're naughty!

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FrankM

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treaclefingers

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FrankM
The problem won't be solved with all these extreme attitudes. People who want to ban all guns are extreme imo. Likewise people who think they have a right to any gun and any ammo they want are also extreme imo. We need to focus on better regulation as far as what kinds of guns can be sold to civilians and who they are being sold to- better background checks, longer waiting periods etc..

I only would like to point out what I think is the obvious, which is that in almost every country in the world, the position that banning handguns would be considered to be a normal view, not an extremist view.

Don't want to argue with you, but I think that should be pointed out.

I can only go from my own perspective. Here in America the total ban of handguns would be considered an extreme position- that's not to say anybody who wants it is an extremist in the crazy sense.

Does that mean we are right and the rest of the world is wrong? Of course not, it just means there are differing views.

I agree with you. Just differing views. I was only pointing out that your saying 'total ban' on handguns was extremist, is probably generally not an extremist view, in places outside the US.

As pinkfloyd stated, the requirements on handgun ownership are quite stringent relatively speaking, in Canada, including having to pass tests.

I'm not sure what Mr_DJA is harping about keeping in his nightstand to keep him safe from the government.

I don't know how a handgun is going to keep you safe from your own government
"stealing your freedoms"? I'd suggest using the ballot box instead.

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

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Munichhilton
You mean people's Mixed Emotions

Have we all lost our minds? Isn't this supposed to be about Mick's Emotions?

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dcba
Pinkfloydthebarber you're naughty!

He can't help himself. He's Canadian.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 00:15 by FrankM.

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FrankM

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dcba
Pinkfloydthebarber you're naughty!

He can't help himself. He's Canadian.

Although we love the Americans, we do derive an inexplicable amount of self pleasure in nipping at you.

I wonder if we just have low self-esteem?

OK, ain't no use in crying, let's turn that frown upside down!

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treaclefingers

I'm not sure what Mr_DJA is harping about keeping in his nightstand to keep him safe from the government.

I don't know how a handgun is going to keep you safe from your own government
"stealing your freedoms"? I'd suggest using the ballot box instead.

there seems to be a pre-revolutionary situation in the USA I must have missed so far...

Maybe we should all just carry mace instead of owning guns? I'll bet some of the ladies on this board have thought about it if not already do so. peace

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

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BluzDude
I don’t know if equating liberal with being anti-gun is necessarily correct, as a fence sitting moderate, I have been discussing this situation with my liberal and conservative friends. My liberal friends want more gun control laws and my conservative friends want less, and a few of my liberal friends think guns should be banned. That being said, far more of my liberal friends own guns than my conservative friends...whatever that might mean.

I'm more conservative than liberal, and I think gun control needs to be ramped WAY up.

I'm not going to debate the details of how that should be done, but I'd like to relate a story I heard from a pawn shop owner several years ago.
This shop owner told me he was required to fill out the paperwork for a customer , since that customer could not read & write.
The shop owner asked the customer what city he lived in, and the customer answered.
The customer was then asked what State he lived in, and (incredibly) the customer did not know.

This guy did not even have an elementary education, and he was allowed to buy a gun!

It's amazing how easy it is to get your hands on a gun.

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kleermaker

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FrankM

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kleermaker

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NICOS
You forgot........your sign kleermaker............. peace

You nail it Nico. Why would someone constantly say 'peace' here? Only if it's not self-evident of course, which it should be. So distrust those who are permanently yelling "peace". They'll shoot you in the back before you know it.

As for understanding the whole gun thing: it's a societal phenomenon and it has not so much to do with cultural or psychological factors as with social-economic power relations. The US-society is in fact a violent society on all levels, which influences the culture, psychological state of mind, mentality and behaviour of so many of its members. Actually they are for the biggest part all victims of the system they live in: Every man for himself, god for all. And struggle for life, survival of the fittest. If you are a loser it's your own damned fault.

Why is it that most people in this thread can make reasonable arguments yet you just come off as a loon. Go figure.

Your ranting at me proves I've nailed it too. It must be hard to face the facts.

Ranting? I simply asked a question.

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point man is That you DO have a gun at your place.
How would you want me to feel secured if I had to stay at your place, let's say ,knowing there is a weapon in your cupboard .
Sure I won't feel secured .Just the idea freaks me out.
WTF ? I have never been close to someone who owns a gun.
Hopefully .
Read my email .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-26 01:09 by SwayStones.

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Edith Grove

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BluzDude
I don’t know if equating liberal with being anti-gun is necessarily correct, as a fence sitting moderate, I have been discussing this situation with my liberal and conservative friends. My liberal friends want more gun control laws and my conservative friends want less, and a few of my liberal friends think guns should be banned. That being said, far more of my liberal friends own guns than my conservative friends...whatever that might mean.

I'm more conservative than liberal, and I think gun control needs to be ramped WAY up.

I'm not going to debate the details of how that should be done, but I'd like to relate a story I heard from a pawn shop owner several years ago.
This shop owner told me he was required to fill out the paperwork for a customer , since that customer could not read & write.
The shop owner asked the customer what city he lived in, and the customer answered.
The customer was then asked what State he lived in, and (incredibly) the customer did not know.

This guy did not even have an elementary education, and he was allowed to buy a gun!

It's amazing how easy it is to get your hands on a gun.

But in this case we have a high IQ student who was buying guns, shooting and killing people; so don't blame all the backward boys ...

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

Is this the song in which Mick and Keef are telling us, why Americans needs guns so much ...?


Gunface

(Jagger/Richards)

Gonna go downtown
Gonna get my gun
Gonna dress real sharp
Gonna beat my drum
I ain't gonna lie

Gonna walk so slow
Gonna talk just right
And my diamond ring
Gonna shine so bright
I ain't gonna lie

I've got a debt to repay
I ain't gonna cry
I put a gun in your face
You'll pay with your life

And I got my ears
And I got my eyes
And I got my narks
And my alibis
I won't waste your time

You made one false move
You made one mistake
When the juice is squeezed
That's the way it breaks
You'll pay for your crime

Your tongue lickin' way out of place
I'll rip it out
I'll stick a gun in your face
You'll pay with your life

I taught her everything I taught her how to dream
I taught her everything
I'm gonna teach her how to scream
I taught her all she knows
I taught her how to lie
I taught her everything
I'm gonna teach her how to cry

And you cause me hurt
And you cause me pain
And you turned the tap
On my burning rage
And I can't put it out

Gonna leave no sign
Gonna leave no trace
Gonna leave this town
In a state of grace
Give me the power

I got a debt to repay
I ain't gonna lie
I put a gun in your face
You'll pay for the crime

I taught her everything
I taught her how to speak
I taught her all she knows
I taught her how to eat
I half invented her
And now she acts so chic
I taught her everything
But now she's obsolete

I taught her everything
How to read and write
I taught her all she knows
She was a neophyte
I taught her everything
I loved to watch her grow
I taught her everything
And now I want to see her go

I taught her everything
I got a debt to repay
I ain't gonna cry
I'll put a gun in your face
You're playing with your life

I taught her everything
I taught her how to cheat
I taught her all she knows
She was so indiscreet
I taught her everything
I taught her how to lie
I taught her everything
I'm gonna teach her how to cry

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Naturalust
Sorry you've got a problem with my sign off, truly didn't mean to offend you. I usually find that what upsets people the most is usually a part of themselves that they don't like. I've got nothing against you kleermaker but please try to keep the posts about the topic and not so much of a foolish personal attack. If we actually knew each other then it might make sense, but since we don't it is more than silly. peace

Well, a nice but weak try to psychologize. Of course it doesn't work with me, however smart it seems. Some people may buy it, just like the superfluous and ridiculous peace-sign, even used while ranting and offending. I guess you even say it when you shoot a burglar in the head. As said before I can't stand the hypocrisy. You as a person don't mean nothing to me. The same goes for DJA: it's the hypocrisy that's annoying. Maybe it's a part of American red neck culture, which doesn't mean I consider all Americans as red necks.

Be as conservative and violent as you want, plea for guns as much as you want, but don't cover it with a thin layer of phoney-peace. It's like a flag on a ship full of mud, as we say it here.

So far good contributions by treaclefingers, Mickschixs and pinkfloydtheb.

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FrankM

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

what if that bastard boogeyman tried to shoot me with it?!

Basically there are two perspectives on this: the micro and the macro perspective. From an individual (micro) perspective you might benefit from owning a gun. But a state legislator must look at a broader (macro) perspective. The population as a whole is more safe the less guns there are distributed in the society. Do we have a consensus there? If not - I give up!

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

OK, now I know what you're talking about.

I would say that if you stay at someone's place where there is a gun, I would find out why that person has a gun.
Would you not feel safe if that person was a law enforcement official?

In my case, I inherited my gun from my grandfather, who was a lawyer and traveled a lot during the 20s & 30s.
It's a 1919 Smith & Wesson, .32-caliber, and has not been fired in over 50 years.
It has sentimental value to me, so as of now I don't want to get rid of it.
BTW, I have yet to buy ammunition for it.

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FrankM

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

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SwayStones

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Edith Grove

An extremely small percentage of (law abiding) people actually carry a gun on their person.

Didn't you ever had/owed a gun that came from your father EG ?
Come on Man !
Sway .

Yes, but my gun stays at home. What is your point ?

My point That you DO have a gun at your place.

How would you want be me to feel secured /secured if I had to stay at your place, knowing there is a weapon in/at your place .
I sure won't .

You won't even stay at a place where the person has a gun? What if the boogeyman comes for you in the middle of the night. Wouldn't it be good to have a gun around the house?

It's the paranoia that's dominating you gun people. The boogeyman, come on. Years and years of fear policy, well, here we see the bitter fruits of it.

Not only guns are "bad" ...,
it's a deeper thing going on through the heads of some people, isn't it?



TOO MUCH BLOOD
(M. Jagger/K. Richards)

I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
To make some love
I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
And make some love

I can feel it in the air
Feel it up above
Feel the tension everywhere
There is too much blood
Too much blood, well alright

Everything you see
On the movie screen is tame
Everything's gonna be arranged

A friend of mine was this Japanese. He had a girlfriend in
Paris. He tried to date her in six months and eventually she
said yes. You know he took her to his apartment, cut off her
head. Put the rest of her body in the refrigerator, ate her
piece by piece. Put her in the refrigerator, put her in the
freezer. And when he ate her and took her bones to the Bois de
Boulogne, by chance a taxi driver noticed him burying the
bones. You don't believe me? Truth is stranger than fiction.
We drive through there every day.

I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
Be number one, yeah
I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
And have some fun

I can feel it everywhere
Feel it up above
Feel the tension in the air
There is too much blood, too much blood
Too much, yeah too much blood, alright

Did you ever see 'Texas Chain Saw Massacre'? Horrible, wasn't
it? You know people ask me: it is really true where you live
in Texas, it is really true what they do around there, people?
I say, "yeah everytime I drive through the crossroads I get
scared there's a bloke running around with a @#$%& chain
saw. Oh oh no, gonna, oh no. Don't saw off me leg, don't saw
off me arm." When I get to the movies, you know I'd like to
see something more romantic, you know. Like 'An Officer and a
Gentleman' or something. Something you can take the wife to,
you know what I mean?

Yeah!

I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
And have some fun
I want to dance, I want to sing
I want to bust up everything
And make some love

I can feel it everywhere
Feel it up above
Feel the tension in the air
There is too much blood, too much blood
Oh yeah

Pretty ladies, don't be scared
Pretty ladies, don't be scared
Pretty ladies, don't be scared
Pretty ladies, don't be scared

Pretty ladies, don't despair
There's still so much love
Pretty ladies, don't despair
Too much, too much, yeah
Too much blood, too much blood
Too much too much blood, too much blood
Too much blood, too much blood............

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Stoneage
Basically there are two perspectives on this: the micro and the macro perspective. From an individual (micro) perspective you might benefit from owning a gun. But a state legislator must look at a broader (macro) perspective. The population as a whole is more safe the less guns there are distributed in the society. Do we have a consensus there? If not - I give up!

Beautifully succinct Stoneage. Hard to not agree with that.

]

what if that bastard boogeyman tried to shoot me with it?![/quote]