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Justin

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R

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pinkfloydthebarber
...people get shot in a theatre and you get these yahoos screeching about MY rights, MY freedoms, MY guns and MY ammo. what a bunch of idiots.

Why should the actions of a single whack-job impugn the rights of hundreds of thousands of people?

That "single whack job" is yet another POSTER CHILD for how f*cked up things are around this country and how ridiculously easy for people to get a hold of this inhumane amount of weaponry with very little difficulty. He represents the black eye that the "rights to bear arms" freedom bears to this day.

So move to Canada.

Ooops. Gun crime is increasing dramatically in Toronto and Canada has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world.

'If there had been an armed security guard or citizen in that theater, there would likely be a lot less dead today.'

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-- or a lot MORE dead.

you could have had everybody in the theatre armed too, but how good a shot is everybody, and in the dark? most likely you'd wind up with more deaths in the cross fire. arming and ammoing everybody to the eyeballs aint the answer.

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pinkfloydthebarber
'If there had been an armed security guard or citizen in that theater, there would likely be a lot less dead today.'

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-- or a lot MORE dead.

you could have had everybody in the theatre armed too, but how good a shot is everybody, and in the dark? most likely you'd wind up with more deaths in the cross fire. arming and ammoing everybody to the eyeballs aint the answer.

Properly trained, as any concealed carry permit holder is in the USA, results in your "most likely" being mistaken.

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pinkfloydthebarber
If you don't like freedom then that's your choice.

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-- if you think you need a gun to be 'free,' you've got a fundamental critical flaw in your attitude toward human life

No you don't need a gun to be free but it is a freedom under our constitution. You sound like a typical hate America jerkwod to be honest with you.

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R
Colorado has some of the most stringent anti-gun laws in the US which means the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS in that theater were totally defenseless. At least in a state with carry permits the innocents would have stood a chance.

My thoughts to the families and friends of the victims.


But what would´ve changed with a carry permit ?
A massive shootout probably...with unsure consequences because within such a chaotic scenery
you might have ended with more deads as allready have been.

Who needs guns anyway and what for...
You might say you can kill with a knive as well and that´s true.
But what kind of freedom is it to suggest carry permits for guns...

Hey,I´m going to the movies,where´s my gun ?
No,thank you.

So move to Canada. Gun crime is increasing dramatically in Toronto and Canada has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world.

- -

i live there already, thanks. and by the way, victims of all violent gun crime in Canada account for less than 3% of all victims of violence in Canada. dont try to BS me

No you don't need a gun to be free but it is a freedom under our constitution. You sound like a typical hate America jerkwod to be honest with you.

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i live on the canada / us border and go to the us all the time. dont hate it at all. but this gun totin' NRA shoot shoot or we aint free garbage drives me nuts. canada has about the same rate of gun ownership, per capita, as america, but the death rate by gun in canada is much much less, per capita. and we are every bit as 'free' as you. does that mean i 'hate' you? no

i just sort of feel sorry and pity you

The US has the scariest gun laws. There are many deaths I read about every week in my area that probalby woudn't have happened if we had stricter gun laws. Here in Florida I think it's easier to buy a gun than adopt a kitten.

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kleermaker

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NICOS
If we keep it a bit serene.............. this thread will last longer...thanks

Nico, don't you think it's time to stop all this? Or do you think this 'debate' is of any use? Let them seek it out there themselves. I will never go to the USA, but I have pity with the sane ones, like Treacle and a couple of others. The rest of them ..., well I better stop now.

Yeah maybe your right................but on the other hand if you don't discuss things nothing gonna change...........I think this one.......might take some time............

What I don't understand is that your are able to order 6000 rounds of ammo (don't know what rounds are) on line....I would ask the buyer if this is for an shooting association or if he is the head buyer for the army......................
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US gunman bought 6,000 rounds of ammo

AURORA - The gunman arrested over the Colorado movie theater massacre bought more than 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the Internet in the last two months, the local police chief said Friday.

All the ammunition was purchased legally, as were four weapons bought by James Holmes at local gunshops over the last 60 days, according to Aurora police chief Dan Oates.

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pinkfloydthebarber
No you don't need a gun to be free but it is a freedom under our constitution. You sound like a typical hate America jerkwod to be honest with you.

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i live on the canada / us border and go to the us all the time. dont hate it at all. but this gun totin' NRA shoot shoot or we aint free garbage drives me nuts. canada has about the same rate of gun ownership, per capita, as america, but the death rate by gun in canada is much much less, per capita. and we are every bit as 'free' as you. does that mean i 'hate' you? no

i just sort of feel sorry and pity you

Well I will certainly lose sleep tonight knowing some half baked nitwit pities us. Don't know if I'll get any sleep tonight.

''Well I will certainly lose sleep tonight knowing some half baked nitwit pities us. Don't know if I'll get any sleep tonight.''

----

so I'm a 'half baked nitwit' am I? lol

not my fault you people consider the second amendment sacrosanct and do not seem to believe that there should be any restrictions on guns, so this type of event will, and does yet again, recur over and over

not my fault the entire rationale for your singular national gun lunacy is that the only way to be really 'free' is for everyone to run around with a .44 magnum.

not my fault either Americans shoot each other at such a greater rate than in any other civilized country

not my fault you have some sort of holdover notion of the American cowboy taming a wild frontier with a six-gun, or that it permeates every aspect of your lives

or when you pour booze, drugs, mental health issues, poverty, and disenfranchisement among other things into that cauldron of violent gun mentality, I am not surprised you'll run to defend your 'freedom' (or is it freedumb?) when someone will shoot someone in the face for no good reason.

basically, your entire 'if you don't like freedom..' stupidity nonsense is exactly the same as the core beliefs of Timothy McVeigh, the patriot militias, the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations, and other assorted nutjobs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-23 23:44 by pinkfloydthebarber.

Interesting to see that one incident perpetrated by one individual three days ago in the USA is giving many in this thread the starting point to bash or question the laws, culture and customs of the USA. Early this morning in at least 37 separate attacks, at least 99 people were killed and more than 300 wounded when insurgents set off car bombs, stormed a military base, attacked policemen in their homes and ambushed checkpoints in Iraq. Not a peep from anyone about the incidents there or the laws, culture or customs in Iraq.

I understand that we the people (and our government) of the USA have a huge target on us for criticism from the rest of the world. I get it. I also welcome it. I only hope that the non-Americans & Americans who seem to enjoy it so much, enjoy it while it lasts. When the civil & religious dictatorships have taken the place of the USA & the EU, you probably won't be allowed to criticize quite so openly.

I'm with Naturalust in that I believe change starts from within and I'm also going to close my posts with the word Peace. Hard to belive that would offend some people but I'm going to do it anyway. A great teacher once said that we should 'love our neighbors as we love ourselves' and to 'do unto others as you would have others do unto you'. Can you imagine what a cool world this would be if we all agreed to start following those teachings?

I'm also with the poster multiple pages ago who wondered what must they be teaching in American schools that seems to make those institutions breeding grounds for this type of behavior. As an American parent, I can tell you that there is some indoctrination (sp?) going on that would probably scare some of you here. I don't want to go into that as it's way to political and I just don't feel like it.

Mourn the loss of life in these senseless attacks. Humbly express your sympathy to the families and friends of the victims. Rejoyce with the survivors. Be outraged that WE have allowed our societies to get to this point. But most importantly, motivate yourself to contribute to the end of this type of chaos rather than it's continuation. We the people can do all of that but there's not a government anywhere that could ever hope to do so.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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pinkfloydthebarber
''Well I will certainly lose sleep tonight knowing some half baked nitwit pities us. Don't know if I'll get any sleep tonight.''

----

so I'm a 'half baked nitwit' am I? lol

not my fault you people consider the second amendment sacrosanct and do not seem to believe that there should be any restrictions on guns, so this type of event will, and does yet again, recur over and over

not my fault the entire rationale for your singular national gun lunacy is that the only way to be really 'free' is for everyone to run around with a .44 magnum.

not my fault either Americans shoot each other at such a greater rate than in any other civilized country

not my fault you have some sort of holdover notion of the American cowboy taming a wild frontier with a six-gun, or that it permeates every aspect of your lives

or when you pour booze, drugs, mental health issues, poverty, and disenfranchisement among other things into that cauldron of violent gun mentality, I am not surprised you'll run to defend your 'freedom' (or is it freedumb?) when someone will shoot someone in the face for no good reason.

basically, your entire 'if you don't like freedom..' stupidity nonsense is exactly the same as the core beliefs of Timothy McVeigh, the patriot militias, the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations, and other assorted nutjobs

The KKK are a bunch of nutjobs, McVeigh was a nutjob and you with all your rantings and ravings lumping all Americans into one group are not very far behind the other nutjobs previously mentioned.

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FrankM

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pinkfloydthebarber
''Well I will certainly lose sleep tonight knowing some half baked nitwit pities us. Don't know if I'll get any sleep tonight.''

----

so I'm a 'half baked nitwit' am I? lol

not my fault you people consider the second amendment sacrosanct and do not seem to believe that there should be any restrictions on guns, so this type of event will, and does yet again, recur over and over

not my fault the entire rationale for your singular national gun lunacy is that the only way to be really 'free' is for everyone to run around with a .44 magnum.

not my fault either Americans shoot each other at such a greater rate than in any other civilized country

not my fault you have some sort of holdover notion of the American cowboy taming a wild frontier with a six-gun, or that it permeates every aspect of your lives

or when you pour booze, drugs, mental health issues, poverty, and disenfranchisement among other things into that cauldron of violent gun mentality, I am not surprised you'll run to defend your 'freedom' (or is it freedumb?) when someone will shoot someone in the face for no good reason.

basically, your entire 'if you don't like freedom..' stupidity nonsense is exactly the same as the core beliefs of Timothy McVeigh, the patriot militias, the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations, and other assorted nutjobs

The KKK are a bunch of nutjobs, McVeigh was a nutjob and you with all your rantings and ravings lumping all Americans into one group are not very far behind the other nutjobs previously mentioned.

Amen to that. Could not have said any better.

Not a peep from anyone about the incidents there or the laws, culture or customs in Iraq.

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yeah but there's another civil war going on there, dude.

hasn't been one of those in america for like 150 years

and it wasn’t until after the civil war that the gun manufacturers tooled up for mass production; the us was never 'founded' on guns in the first place

before that, guns cost more than a years wages, and even then they usually didnt even work

''your rantings and ravings lumping all Americans into one group''

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if you care to comprehend i clearly earlier spelled out my dissatisfaction with SOME, not ALL americans; specifically the gun gun shoot shoot type, which aint everybody. unless you think they are

you know, i'm referring to the dumb as mud, paranoid, conspiracy-minded ones with their psyches constructed of cold rolled steel with the reek of gun oil and cordite. nice try though

BTW, i am friends with tons of americans; none of that ilk, however

the americans i know aren't consumed by base ignorance and paranoia coupled with a seething hatred of the guv'mint

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pinkfloydthebarber
Not a peep from anyone about the incidents there or the laws, culture or customs in Iraq.

------------

yeah but there's another civil war going on there, dude.

hasn't been one of those in america for like 150 years

and it wasn’t until after the civil war that the gun manufacturers tooled up for mass production; the us was never 'founded' on guns in the first place

before that, guns cost more than a years wages, and even then they usually didnt even work

''your rantings and ravings lumping all Americans into one group''

---------

if you care to comprehend i clearly earlier spelled out my dissatisfaction with SOME, not ALL americans; specifically the gun gun shoot shoot type, which aint everybody. unless you think they are

you know, i'm referring to the dumb as mud, paranoid, conspiracy-minded ones with their psyches constructed of cold rolled steel with the reek of gun oil and cordite. nice try though

BTW, i am friends with tons of americans; none of that ilk, however

the americans i know aren't consumed by base ignorance and paranoia coupled with a seething hatred of the guv'mint

Every part of the world has it's share of wackadoos. I see a lot of people here including myself that believe in a person's right to own a gun but I haven't seen anyone in this thread that seems to be a gun toting yahoo ready to run up and down mainstreet firing his weapon as if he is in an episode of Gunsmoke.

Of course you can argue for everyone's right to own a firearm but then you must also accept the consequences of that, namely high killing rates. They come together.

I see a lot of people here including myself that believe in a person's right to own a gun but I haven't seen anyone in this thread that seems to be a gun toting yahoo ready to run up and down mainstreet firing his weapon as if he is in an episode of Gunsmoke.

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true enough, not in here for the most part

but i don't get the part about the 'right' to own a gun; and for saying it some yahoo here calls me a nitwit

i mean that's great if you think thats so important to have that 'right;' i don't happen to think its important, or necessary

i think its a neurotic attraction to firearms; basically

and i think the NRA jams this crap down people's throats

and the NRA is trying to influence OUR government, in canada, where gun violence is so much lower, and that NRA infiltration completely pisses me off

i think what happened in Aurora is horrific, and i think that there needs to be regulation, and cheques and balances in place, to make sure nuts like this guy can't arm and ammo themselves to the eyeballs, before they decide they are 'The Joker' from some stupid movie and go shooting people

and that you can manage that without infringing upon other peoples' 'rights'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-24 00:32 by pinkfloydthebarber.

Maybe we should discuss things Americans are good in ..................MUSIC





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pinkfloydthebarber
I see a lot of people here including myself that believe in a person's right to own a gun but I haven't seen anyone in this thread that seems to be a gun toting yahoo ready to run up and down mainstreet firing his weapon as if he is in an episode of Gunsmoke.

----

true enough, not in here for the most part

but i don't get the part about the 'right' to own a gun; and for saying it some yahoo here calls me a nitwit

i mean that's great if you think thats so important to have that 'right;' i don't happen to think its important, or necessary

i think its a neurotic attraction to firearms; basically

and i think the NRA jams this crap down people's throats

and the NRA is trying to influence OUR government, in canada, where gun violence is so much lower, and that NRA infiltration completely pisses me off

i think what happened in Aurora is horrific, and i think that there needs to be regulation, and cheques and balances in place, to make sure nuts like this guy can't arm and ammo themselves to the eyeballs, before they decide they are 'The Joker' from some stupid movie and go shooting people

and that you can manage that without infringing upon other peoples' 'rights'

The bottom line is you can believe in the right to own a gun and not be some lunatic that wants to shoot people. You seem to be insinuating otherwise. That's why I called you a nitwit.

The laws regarding guns and ammo availability clearly need to change and become tighter. Longer waiting periods, stricter limits. Yes the Aurora massacre has made this a lightning rod for opinion, but something needs to change as it pertains to the gun issue so that innocent people stop dying from senseless gunshot wounds.

What really scares me about this incident is the great hoard of people who choose to use the incident to live more in fear. Fight or flight feelings put our cells into a mode which elimates the possibility of growth or even self healing. This is a biological fact.

What happened in Colorado probably has more to do with what the shooter experienced. between 0-6 years old than any gun law or the avialability of ammunition. The jesuits have a saying "Give me his first 6 years and I show you a holy man for life".

Yeah one guy can do alot of damage just as one guy can make alot of positive change. Gun laws have very little to do with it.

America is as safe to walk around as any country in the world. Unless (for one example) you are young, Latino and wearing the wrong colors in Watsonville California. peace

The shooter reminds me of a line from Elton John's "Empty Garden"
"It's funny how one insect can damage so much grain"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-24 01:19 by FrankM.

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R

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Justin

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R

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pinkfloydthebarber
...people get shot in a theatre and you get these yahoos screeching about MY rights, MY freedoms, MY guns and MY ammo. what a bunch of idiots.

Why should the actions of a single whack-job impugn the rights of hundreds of thousands of people?

That "single whack job" is yet another POSTER CHILD for how f*cked up things are around this country and how ridiculously easy for people to get a hold of this inhumane amount of weaponry with very little difficulty. He represents the black eye that the "rights to bear arms" freedom bears to this day.

So move to Canada.

Ooops. Gun crime is increasing dramatically in Toronto and Canada has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world.

you can't even remotely compare the stats between the two countries. A cop out on your part R.

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FrankM

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pinkfloydthebarber
If you don't like freedom then that's your choice.

----------

-- if you think you need a gun to be 'free,' you've got a fundamental critical flaw in your attitude toward human life

No you don't need a gun to be free but it is a freedom under our constitution. You sound like a typical hate America jerkwod to be honest with you.

Why would you equate hating guns to hating america? Can't the two be mutually exclusive?

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treaclefingers

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FrankM

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pinkfloydthebarber
If you don't like freedom then that's your choice.

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-- if you think you need a gun to be 'free,' you've got a fundamental critical flaw in your attitude toward human life

No you don't need a gun to be free but it is a freedom under our constitution. You sound like a typical hate America jerkwod to be honest with you.

Why would you equate hating guns to hating america? Can't the two be mutually exclusive?

It was more the way he was ranting and raving about America than just hating guns. Of course you can hate guns without hating America.

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TrulyMicks
The US has the scariest gun laws. There are many deaths I read about every week in my area that probalby woudn't have happened if we had stricter gun laws. Here in Florida I think it's easier to buy a gun than adopt a kitten.

That whole Trevon Martin thing was particularly spooky, that new law that you have in Florida, which if you feel 'threatened', you can shoot.

A can of worms I think that will lead to a disaster at some point (although Trevon's family would probably argue it has already led to disaster).

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Naturalust

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R

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Naturalust
You believe shit is going to happen and it will. You clean up your own thoughts and prayers and that is the best chance the outside world will change to match your inside world. I know I'm not thinking about guns and shooting people but he who allows the possiblity in their thoughts "yeah it's gonna happen again and again" is just making that possibility possible. peace

Oh brother. This bit of naive wishful thinking reminded me it's time to renew my CCP.

You can only change yourself in the end R. Naive? Hardly. Glad it motivated you to do something. peace

Well then, go change yourself, mr. peaceman. I wish you good luck with it.

No worries I'm committed to it, don't need your shallow encouragement. peace

This gun culture in the US is like religion -it really is impossible to have a discussion about the existance of god with a true believer. No matter how many people are killed by guns daily, the gun cluture believers will only react with 'guns don't kill people' and 'it's our right'. So in that sense, every society gets what it deserves.

BUT -some people state here that these things only happen, or happen more often in the US, and that is simply not the case. Yes, the mortality rate by gunshots in the US is something like 20 times worse than in civilised countries (joke intended), but shootings like these are not typical American. If you take Western Europe there are as many of these kind of 'lone wolf' shootings. We've had two school shootings in Germany, a shooting with 6 dead in a super market in The Netherlands, a shooting in the UK, a killer in Toulouse in France, two seperate guys wacking out their family in France, we've had Norway of course (the last country you would expect something to happen), two school shootings in Finland, a guy killing foreigners in Sweden and so on and on.

The thing I don't understand though is how different the reaction is. In the US many people really believe that if the people in the cinema where armed it would have not happened, whereas after the shooting in The Netherlands the only reaction was to make gun possesion laws even more stricter -and we already have the absolute strictest gun law in the world.

Mathijs