Tell Me :
Talk
yes, but from a creative pt of view, it's clearly a black art form. other than eminem, has there been a critically and commercially successful hip hop artist?
in fact, that's one of the things that is different about the evolution of hip hop, as compared to, say, rock'n'roll. rock also of course had black antecedents but was 'popularized' and then taken into the global mainstream by mostly white artists. that never happened in hip-hop. although people all over the world, of all shapes, sizes, colors, and creeds dig hip-hop, the music has not been "co-opted" by white artists and remains today a black-produced phenomenon.
"Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
-Keith Richards, Rolling Stone magazine, 9 Sept 2015
Nothing in that quote about anything unhealthy; I only recall his comments about rap's lack of musical worth.
I'll defer to you about Jamaican dub's role in hip-hop's origins. I was into hip-hop with the Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in the late 70's and did not detect that influence. But your mileage may vary.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 01:12 by LongBeachArena72.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Ha! Two different interviews
Here's the other one:
The veteran performer, known for his wild ways and legendary tolerance for substances, is convinced rap's roots lie with Bo Diddley and older Jamaican styles.
Richards, currently touring on the ROLLING STONES' FORTY LICKS bus, explains, "I think of (gangsta rap) like the hula hoop, as a fad. With the baseball caps and the baggy pants - I just got bored with what they were saying.
"And all those fingers pointing at you all the time! If I think about rap, which is basically talking over a beat, right, I think of Bo Diddley, to begin with, and then, where I really thought it reached masterpieces was in Jamaica with BIG YOUTH and I-ROY, when they were saying something and had some really incredible sounds.
"American rap has never really got on my radar screen, man. I mean, I know my brothers, right, and this is really not the best angle on them. They're all talking about the same thing and it's a wasted opportunity."
However, the MAIN OFFENDER album-maker concedes there are some interesting points in the gangsta culture.
He adds, "I don't really like to put a record on and listen to somebody talking to me, unless it's Lenny Bruce or TONY HANCOCK.
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
He's probably referring to Jamaican dj's who "toasted" (or rapped) over pre-existing tunes dating back to the late '60's. They became legitimate artists in their own right recording or 'dubbing' their vocals over pre-existing tunes with original vocals removed. See U-Roy as a prime example. Many early rappers did indeed credit the Jamaican dj's for inspiring them to rap, though I can't find any quotes right now.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
..... Big Youth one of the deadliest ....
even though he's working over top of Desmond Young's "Warning
ROCKMAN
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Totally agree. If Jagger were looking for mainstream acceptance, he'd be working with Kanye, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran or Adele. Skepta on the other hand is from the projects. He's hardcore. Good choice.
Lol - Keith can be a serious assh0le.
Again, I have to question his sanity when he spews out these rants.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Ironizing over rap's future, don't you think?
Both Glimmers are almost completely full of shit, albeit in different ways. Thesse guys are such masters at self-promotion and self-mythologizing that it's difficult to take anything they say at face-value, ultimately.
I'm sure in his heart of hearts Keith absolutely adores Tupac and BIggie.
3 words...ice ice baby
i rest my case
The "London projects"?..
North London housing project.
Agreed. I don't have the quote handy, but somewhere Keith discussed preferring Jamaican toasting to rapping. I only know because it's where I learned the phrase. I imagine it's a bit like what Ivan Neville would do during "Too Rude" on the Winos tours. Again, as the K'naan example showed or Keith's latterday work with Lee "Scratch" Perry, Keith is not completely adverse to rap in some form, but at its most commercial and popular, it is not a genre he is comfortable with and it belongs to a generation he does not identify with the same as metal. But before we pigeon-hole Keith as the traditionalist and Mick as the fashionable one, let us remind ourselves Keith spoke of really enjoying Ed Sheeran.
Kool Herc and several other godfathers of the Bronx rap scene were of Jamaican descent and the sound systems they brought to the parties were inspired by those in Jamaica. Moreover, they were inspired by the toasters who rapped live over dub plates in Kingston. Certainly the dozens and other African-American traditions contributed greatly but there was a strong Jamaican influence on the birth of hip-hop.
Edit: oops, I poste without seeing the last few comments. Hairball beat me to a reference to Kool Herc!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 02:32 by TeddyB1018.
We don't call local government housing 'projects' in the Uk. In Skepta's case he was brought up on the 'Meridian Walk Estate' in Tottenham, North london.
Estates and Projects probably equate in practice but we don't call them that......Most British kids wouldn't know what a Project is...........except for it being as an assignment set by a teacher in school..........
Irony or not (which I don't think it was), still a foolish thing to say as it's a poor choice of words. It's like saying I can't way for those old buildings to come down...twin tower style.
Obviously he didn't mean it literally (or did he?), but I think it was one of his misguided jokes trying to get a laugh and show how tough he is in the same way he did when dissing Sgt. Peppers, Black Sabbath, et al.
Along with Eminem as you mentioned, there was also the Beastie Boys who opened it up for a lot of young white boys who wanted to fight for their right to party. They were critically acclaimed and very successful.
And to a much lesser degree - Vanilla Ice. No matter how much of a fraudulent fool he would eventually be proven to be, he did have a large fan base of mostly white kids glued to their MTV. I doubt he was critically acclaimed (unless it was for being a clown), but he was successful for a short period. I do agree though that rap and hip hop is clearly black art form and remains today a black-produced phenomenon that hasn't been diluted in the same way rock, blues, and many other genres have been. But maybe it will take someone with the super star status of Mick Jagger and his foray in to the rap world with the help of Skepta to change all that, but I highly doubt it.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 04:18 by Hairball.
Sometimes a picture can speak louder than words, and I can tell by looking at this pic that Mick loves EVERTHING about Ed Sheeran and his music.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
I was 13 when Ice Ice Baby was a big hit, so I can attest to how WILDLY popular he was for a VERY short period of time, but to include him alongside Eminem and the Beastie Boys does them a tremendous disservice and gives him props that he absolutely doesn't deserve.
He was a flash-in-the-pan one hit wonder, nothing more.
I did say "to a much lesser degree" and "for a short period", and you said he was "was a big hit" and was "WILDLY popular...for a VERY short period of time" so not sure what you're STRONGLY disagreeing about.
While he may have been a "flash-in-the-pan one hit wonder" the fact remains he had an influence on many white kids and was somewhat successful.
But I'm not here to argue about Vanilla Ice, so will leave it at that.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
I am ridiculously embarrassed to have omitted the Beasties. Paul's Boutique is one of the great records of the 80's, in any genre.
I don't expect much to happen as a result of the Skepta/Jagger collab; I just think it's cool that Mick is still out there, searching, trying, looking for new ways to create music.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 00:58
Quote
kovachQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.
1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.
2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.
The African American community is only at best 13% so there's a lot of white folks buying this stuff as well; in fact that would mean the majority of people buying it are not African Americans at all!
yes, but from a creative pt of view, it's clearly a black art form. other than eminem, has there been a critically and commercially successful hip hop artist?
in fact, that's one of the things that is different about the evolution of hip hop, as compared to, say, rock'n'roll. rock also of course had black antecedents but was 'popularized' and then taken into the global mainstream by mostly white artists. that never happened in hip-hop. although people all over the world, of all shapes, sizes, colors, and creeds dig hip-hop, the music has not been "co-opted" by white artists and remains today a black-produced phenomenon.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: July 11, 2017 00:59
stone4ever, kind of hard for me to believe that "politically correct" is alive within Rock and Roll but apparently it is. In the grander scheme of things I suppose it's inevitable. Perhaps we should avoid too much philosophy. More and more I find it's unwelcomed. Best of luck to you.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:04
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Raises eyebrows? I don't know.
But Keith mainly put his finger on the unhealthy sides of hip hop: the guns and the killings. That was his message in the interview, if memory serves. And he praised it's forerunner: Jamaican dub.
"Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
-Keith Richards, Rolling Stone magazine, 9 Sept 2015
Nothing in that quote about anything unhealthy; I only recall his comments about rap's lack of musical worth.
I'll defer to you about Jamaican dub's role in hip-hop's origins. I was into hip-hop with the Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in the late 70's and did not detect that influence. But your mileage may vary.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 01:12 by LongBeachArena72.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:10
Quote
MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.
And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:12
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
Raises eyebrows? I don't know.
But Keith mainly put his finger on the unhealthy sides of hip hop: the guns and the killings. That was his message in the interview, if memory serves. And he praised it's forerunner: Jamaican dub.
"Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
-Keith Richards, Rolling Stone magazine, 9 Sept 2015
Nothing in that quote about anything unhealthy; I only recall his comments about rap' lack of musical worth.
I'll defer to you about Jamaican dub's role in hip-hop's origins. I was into hip-hop with the Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in the late 70's and did not detect that influence. But your mileage may vary.
Ha! Two different interviews
Here's the other one:
The veteran performer, known for his wild ways and legendary tolerance for substances, is convinced rap's roots lie with Bo Diddley and older Jamaican styles.
Richards, currently touring on the ROLLING STONES' FORTY LICKS bus, explains, "I think of (gangsta rap) like the hula hoop, as a fad. With the baseball caps and the baggy pants - I just got bored with what they were saying.
"And all those fingers pointing at you all the time! If I think about rap, which is basically talking over a beat, right, I think of Bo Diddley, to begin with, and then, where I really thought it reached masterpieces was in Jamaica with BIG YOUTH and I-ROY, when they were saying something and had some really incredible sounds.
"American rap has never really got on my radar screen, man. I mean, I know my brothers, right, and this is really not the best angle on them. They're all talking about the same thing and it's a wasted opportunity."
However, the MAIN OFFENDER album-maker concedes there are some interesting points in the gangsta culture.
He adds, "I don't really like to put a record on and listen to somebody talking to me, unless it's Lenny Bruce or TONY HANCOCK.
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:15
Bo and Jerome were rappin' it out back in '58 ...........
Say man
What's that boy?
I want to tell you about your girlfriend,
What about my girl?
But you don't look strong enough to take the message
I'm strong enough
I might hurt your feelings
My feelings already hurt by bein' here with you
Well, I was walking down the street with your girl the other day
Uh-huh
And the wind was blowin' real hard
Is that right?
And the wind blew her hair into my face
Uh-huh
Hee-hee, you know what else happened?
What happened?
The wind blew her hair into her face
Yeah?
And we went a little further; you want to hear the rest of it?
I might as well...
The wind blew her hair into the street!
Hey, since you told me about my girl I'm gonna tell you about yours
I was walking down the street with your girl
Yeah?
I took her home, for a drink, you know
Took her home?
Yeah, just for a drink
Oh
But that chick looked so ugly she had to sneak up on a glass to get a drink of water
Hah-hah-hah-hah, well, you've got the nerve to call somebody ugly
Why you're so ugly the stork that brought you into the world ought to be arrested
That's alright
My mama didn't have to put a sheet over my head so sleep could slip up on me
Hey, looky here
What's that?
Where you from?
South America
What's that?
South America
You don't look like no South American to me
I'm still from South America
What part?
South Texas
Hah-hah-hah, where your western boots at?
I've got 'em on
Them ain't no boots you got on, they're broke in
ROCKMAN
Say man
What's that boy?
I want to tell you about your girlfriend,
What about my girl?
But you don't look strong enough to take the message
I'm strong enough
I might hurt your feelings
My feelings already hurt by bein' here with you
Well, I was walking down the street with your girl the other day
Uh-huh
And the wind was blowin' real hard
Is that right?
And the wind blew her hair into my face
Uh-huh
Hee-hee, you know what else happened?
What happened?
The wind blew her hair into her face
Yeah?
And we went a little further; you want to hear the rest of it?
I might as well...
The wind blew her hair into the street!
Hey, since you told me about my girl I'm gonna tell you about yours
I was walking down the street with your girl
Yeah?
I took her home, for a drink, you know
Took her home?
Yeah, just for a drink
Oh
But that chick looked so ugly she had to sneak up on a glass to get a drink of water
Hah-hah-hah-hah, well, you've got the nerve to call somebody ugly
Why you're so ugly the stork that brought you into the world ought to be arrested
That's alright
My mama didn't have to put a sheet over my head so sleep could slip up on me
Hey, looky here
What's that?
Where you from?
South America
What's that?
South America
You don't look like no South American to me
I'm still from South America
What part?
South Texas
Hah-hah-hah, where your western boots at?
I've got 'em on
Them ain't no boots you got on, they're broke in
ROCKMAN
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:18
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
Raises eyebrows? I don't know.
But Keith mainly put his finger on the unhealthy sides of hip hop: the guns and the killings. That was his message in the interview, if memory serves. And he praised it's forerunner: Jamaican dub.
"Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
-Keith Richards, Rolling Stone magazine, 9 Sept 2015
Nothing in that quote about anything unhealthy; I only recall his comments about rap's lack of musical worth.
I'll defer to you about Jamaican dub's role in hip-hop's origins. I was into hip-hop with the Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in the late 70's and did not detect that influence. But your mileage may vary.
He's probably referring to Jamaican dj's who "toasted" (or rapped) over pre-existing tunes dating back to the late '60's. They became legitimate artists in their own right recording or 'dubbing' their vocals over pre-existing tunes with original vocals removed. See U-Roy as a prime example. Many early rappers did indeed credit the Jamaican dj's for inspiring them to rap, though I can't find any quotes right now.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:21
..... Big Youth one of the deadliest ....
even though he's working over top of Desmond Young's "Warning
ROCKMAN
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:26
Wouldn't you know it, but a quote stating the influence of Jamaican dj'ing on rap is right in the same U-Roy link I posted above:
Kool Herc states:
"Hip-hop….the whole chemistry of that came from Jamaica…..In Jamaica all you needed was a drum and a bass. So what I did was go right to the ‘yoke’. I cut off all the anticipation and just played the beats. I’d find out where the break in the record was and prolonged it and people would love it. So I was giving them their own taste and beat percussion wise….cause my music is all about heavy bass".
Turn up the bass Kool Herc!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 01:27 by Hairball.
Kool Herc states:
"Hip-hop….the whole chemistry of that came from Jamaica…..In Jamaica all you needed was a drum and a bass. So what I did was go right to the ‘yoke’. I cut off all the anticipation and just played the beats. I’d find out where the break in the record was and prolonged it and people would love it. So I was giving them their own taste and beat percussion wise….cause my music is all about heavy bass".
Turn up the bass Kool Herc!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 01:27 by Hairball.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:29
Quote
DandelionPowderman
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
MrEcho
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:30
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.
And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Totally agree. If Jagger were looking for mainstream acceptance, he'd be working with Kanye, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran or Adele. Skepta on the other hand is from the projects. He's hardcore. Good choice.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:32
Quote
Rockman
Bo and Jerome were rappin' it out back in '58 ...........
Say man
What's that boy?
I want to tell you about your girlfriend,
What about my girl?
But you don't look strong enough to take the message
I'm strong enough
I might hurt your feelings
My feelings already hurt by bein' here with you
Well, I was walking down the street with your girl the other day
Uh-huh
And the wind was blowin' real hard
Is that right?
And the wind blew her hair into my face
Uh-huh
Hee-hee, you know what else happened?
What happened?
The wind blew her hair into her face
Yeah?
And we went a little further; you want to hear the rest of it?
I might as well...
The wind blew her hair into the street!
Hey, since you told me about my girl I'm gonna tell you about yours
I was walking down the street with your girl
Yeah?
I took her home, for a drink, you know
Took her home?
Yeah, just for a drink
Oh
But that chick looked so ugly she had to sneak up on a glass to get a drink of water
Hah-hah-hah-hah, well, you've got the nerve to call somebody ugly
Why you're so ugly the stork that brought you into the world ought to be arrested
That's alright
My mama didn't have to put a sheet over my head so sleep could slip up on me
Hey, looky here
What's that?
Where you from?
South America
What's that?
South America
You don't look like no South American to me
I'm still from South America
What part?
South Texas
Hah-hah-hah, where your western boots at?
I've got 'em on
Them ain't no boots you got on, they're broke in
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:33
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Lol - Keith can be a serious assh0le.
Again, I have to question his sanity when he spews out these rants.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:37
Quote
HairballQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Lol - Keith can be a serious assh0le.
Again, I have to question his sanity when he spews out these rants.
Ironizing over rap's future, don't you think?
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:39
Quote
HairballQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Lol - Keith can be a serious assh0le.
Again, I have to question his sanity when he spews out these rants.
Both Glimmers are almost completely full of shit, albeit in different ways. Thesse guys are such masters at self-promotion and self-mythologizing that it's difficult to take anything they say at face-value, ultimately.
I'm sure in his heart of hearts Keith absolutely adores Tupac and BIggie.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
kovach
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:46
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
kovachQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.
1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.
2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.
The African American community is only at best 13% so there's a lot of white folks buying this stuff as well; in fact that would mean the majority of people buying it are not African Americans at all!
yes, but from a creative pt of view, it's clearly a black art form. other than eminem, has there been a critically and commercially successful hip hop artist?
3 words...ice ice baby
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:47
Quote
kovachQuote
LongBeachArena72
yes, but from a creative pt of view, it's clearly a black art form. other than eminem, has there been a critically and commercially successful hip hop artist?
3 words...ice ice baby
i rest my case
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:51
Quote
MrEchoQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.
And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Totally agree. If Jagger were looking for mainstream acceptance, he'd be working with Kanye, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran or Adele. Skepta on the other hand is from the projects. He's hardcore. Good choice.
The "London projects"?..
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
MrEcho
()
Date: July 11, 2017 01:57
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MrEchoQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.
And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Totally agree. If Jagger were looking for mainstream acceptance, he'd be working with Kanye, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran or Adele. Skepta on the other hand is from the projects. He's hardcore. Good choice.
The "London projects"?..
North London housing project.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: July 11, 2017 02:06
Quote
Hairball
He's probably referring to Jamaican dj's who "toasted" (or rapped) over pre-existing tunes dating back to the late '60's. They became legitimate artists in their own right recording or 'dubbing' their vocals over pre-existing tunes with original vocals removed. See U-Roy as a prime example. Many early rappers did indeed credit the Jamaican dj's for inspiring them to rap, though I can't find any quotes right now.
Agreed. I don't have the quote handy, but somewhere Keith discussed preferring Jamaican toasting to rapping. I only know because it's where I learned the phrase. I imagine it's a bit like what Ivan Neville would do during "Too Rude" on the Winos tours. Again, as the K'naan example showed or Keith's latterday work with Lee "Scratch" Perry, Keith is not completely adverse to rap in some form, but at its most commercial and popular, it is not a genre he is comfortable with and it belongs to a generation he does not identify with the same as metal. But before we pigeon-hole Keith as the traditionalist and Mick as the fashionable one, let us remind ourselves Keith spoke of really enjoying Ed Sheeran.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 02:28
OMG, Ed Sheeran. Talented kid. I actually dig him. And because there's no song that's not improved by Muppets, here's my favorite Ed song.
But he's so cuddly and commercial can you possibly imagine the firestorm of ridicule that would have been heaped down upon Sir Michael's head had he been the one touting Eddie?
But he's so cuddly and commercial can you possibly imagine the firestorm of ridicule that would have been heaped down upon Sir Michael's head had he been the one touting Eddie?
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
TeddyB1018
()
Date: July 11, 2017 02:30
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
Raises eyebrows? I don't know.
But Keith mainly put his finger on the unhealthy sides of hip hop: the guns and the killings. That was his message in the interview, if memory serves. And he praised it's forerunner: Jamaican dub.
"Rap — so many words, so little said." He added: "What rap did that was impressive was to show there are so many tone-deaf people out there. All they need is a drum beat and somebody yelling over it and they're happy. There’s an enormous market for people who can't tell one note from another."
-Keith Richards, Rolling Stone magazine, 9 Sept 2015
Nothing in that quote about anything unhealthy; I only recall his comments about rap's lack of musical worth.
I'll defer to you about Jamaican dub's role in hip-hop's origins. I was into hip-hop with the Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow in the late 70's and did not detect that influence. But your mileage may vary.
Kool Herc and several other godfathers of the Bronx rap scene were of Jamaican descent and the sound systems they brought to the parties were inspired by those in Jamaica. Moreover, they were inspired by the toasters who rapped live over dub plates in Kingston. Certainly the dozens and other African-American traditions contributed greatly but there was a strong Jamaican influence on the birth of hip-hop.
Edit: oops, I poste without seeing the last few comments. Hairball beat me to a reference to Kool Herc!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 02:32 by TeddyB1018.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: July 11, 2017 02:55
Quote
MrEchoQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
MrEchoQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.
And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.
I agree, it's a very interesting choice. Whether it will yield anything of value of course remains to be seen. But grime is pretty hardcore and unrelenting; there are certainly safer choices out there if Mick's primary goal was to cash in or ride coattails or try to surf a trend.
A rough analogy might be that if Mick were doing a country album he'd have chosen to work with Jamey Johnson instead of Luke Bryan.
Totally agree. If Jagger were looking for mainstream acceptance, he'd be working with Kanye, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran or Adele. Skepta on the other hand is from the projects. He's hardcore. Good choice.
The "London projects"?..
North London housing project.
We don't call local government housing 'projects' in the Uk. In Skepta's case he was brought up on the 'Meridian Walk Estate' in Tottenham, North london.
Estates and Projects probably equate in practice but we don't call them that......Most British kids wouldn't know what a Project is...........except for it being as an assignment set by a teacher in school..........
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: July 11, 2017 02:58
No, no, I was just being a smartass, as you say. No worries.Quote
stone4everQuote
keefriff99stone4ever also refered to rap as "jive"...I don't think this Archie Bunker-wannabe has updated his slang lexicon since 1975.Quote
DelticsQuote
keefriff99I don't think you're going to get through to stone4ever, given the vitriol in his tirade.Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.
1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.
2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.
I like plenty of hip hop music...I just don't thinking mixing modern hip hop with a 73-year old white British man is a recipe for success.
And as far as rap being a bad influence...many of the old bluesmen were hardly paragons of virtue. I'm sure some of the exploits they engaged in put most modern rappers to shame.
"new and trending"?
Rap and hip-hop have been around for forty years!
Like all musical genres there's great and there's crap and let's face it, there's been plenty of crap rock.
Let's hear it before we pass judgement.
I'm just thankful he didn't refer to rap as "the coloreds' music".
Hey smart ass i was referring to jive as attitude, to taunt or sneer at. I didn't say rap was jive.
Archie Bunker wannabe ?? What you saying i'm a racist because i don't like rap.??
Haha, no i'm not quite that bad and i do love a lot of music from as far back as the 30's to the present day. You wouldn't believe the amount of music i love, it covers so many decades and so many artists, its my life actually. Sorry about my rant, its just that i am completely uninterested in Rap or Hip Hop because my ears are deaf to it.
I'm not at liberty to judge something if i have no connection to it so for that reason i'm out of this conversation.
I've listened to it over the years, i've even tried to like it but it's just not music to my ears.
If that makes me out of order to dislike something then what can i say.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 03:57
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
DandelionPowderman
"But I did get interested when they started shooting each other. That's more like it, y'know? Wipe each other out!"
Now THAT'S the Keef we all know and love!
Lol - Keith can be a serious assh0le.
Again, I have to question his sanity when he spews out these rants.
Ironizing over rap's future, don't you think?
Irony or not (which I don't think it was), still a foolish thing to say as it's a poor choice of words. It's like saying I can't way for those old buildings to come down...twin tower style.
Obviously he didn't mean it literally (or did he?), but I think it was one of his misguided jokes trying to get a laugh and show how tough he is in the same way he did when dissing Sgt. Peppers, Black Sabbath, et al.
Quote
LongBeachArena72
..from a creative pt of view, it's clearly a black art form. other than eminem, has there been a critically and commercially successful hip hop artist?In fact, one of the things that is different about the evolution of hip hop, as compared to, say, rock'n'roll. rock also of course had black antecedents but was 'popularized' and then taken into the global mainstream by mostly white artists. that never happened in hip-hop. although people all over the world, of all shapes, sizes, colors, and creeds dig hip-hop, the music has not been "co-opted" by white artists and remains today a black-produced phenomenon.
Along with Eminem as you mentioned, there was also the Beastie Boys who opened it up for a lot of young white boys who wanted to fight for their right to party. They were critically acclaimed and very successful.
And to a much lesser degree - Vanilla Ice. No matter how much of a fraudulent fool he would eventually be proven to be, he did have a large fan base of mostly white kids glued to their MTV. I doubt he was critically acclaimed (unless it was for being a clown), but he was successful for a short period. I do agree though that rap and hip hop is clearly black art form and remains today a black-produced phenomenon that hasn't been diluted in the same way rock, blues, and many other genres have been. But maybe it will take someone with the super star status of Mick Jagger and his foray in to the rap world with the help of Skepta to change all that, but I highly doubt it.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-11 04:18 by Hairball.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 04:03
Quote
LongBeachArena72
OMG, Ed Sheeran. Talented kid. I actually dig him. And because there's no song that's not improved by Muppets, here's my favorite Ed song.
But he's so cuddly and commercial can you possibly imagine the firestorm of ridicule that would have been heaped down upon Sir Michael's head had he been the one touting Eddie?
Sometimes a picture can speak louder than words, and I can tell by looking at this pic that Mick loves EVERTHING about Ed Sheeran and his music.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: July 11, 2017 04:56
Eh...I have to STRONGLY disagree with the Vanilla Ice inclusion.Quote
Hairball
Along with Eminem as you mentioned, there was also the Beastie Boys who opened it up for a lot of young white boys who wanted to fight for their right to party. They were critically acclaimed and very successful.
And to a much lesser degree - Vanilla Ice. No matter how much of a fraudulent fool he would eventually be proven to be, he did have a large fan base of mostly white kids glued to their MTV. I doubt he was critically acclaimed (unless it was for being a clown), but he was successful for a short period. I do agree though that rap and hip hop is clearly black art form and remains today a black-produced phenomenon that hasn't been diluted in the same way rock, blues, and many other genres have been. But maybe it will take someone with the super star status of Mick Jagger and his foray in to the rap world with the help of Skepta to change all that, but I highly doubt it.
I was 13 when Ice Ice Baby was a big hit, so I can attest to how WILDLY popular he was for a VERY short period of time, but to include him alongside Eminem and the Beastie Boys does them a tremendous disservice and gives him props that he absolutely doesn't deserve.
He was a flash-in-the-pan one hit wonder, nothing more.
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 11, 2017 05:25
Quote
keefriff99Eh...I have to STRONGLY disagree with the Vanilla Ice inclusion.Quote
Hairball
Along with Eminem as you mentioned, there was also the Beastie Boys who opened it up for a lot of young white boys who wanted to fight for their right to party. They were critically acclaimed and very successful.
And to a much lesser degree - Vanilla Ice. No matter how much of a fraudulent fool he would eventually be proven to be, he did have a large fan base of mostly white kids glued to their MTV. I doubt he was critically acclaimed (unless it was for being a clown), but he was successful for a short period. I do agree though that rap and hip hop is clearly black art form and remains today a black-produced phenomenon that hasn't been diluted in the same way rock, blues, and many other genres have been. But maybe it will take someone with the super star status of Mick Jagger and his foray in to the rap world with the help of Skepta to change all that, but I highly doubt it.
I was 13 when Ice Ice Baby was a big hit, so I can attest to how WILDLY popular he was for a VERY short period of time, but to include him alongside Eminem and the Beastie Boys does them a tremendous disservice and gives him props that he absolutely doesn't deserve.
He was a flash-in-the-pan one hit wonder, nothing more.
I did say "to a much lesser degree" and "for a short period", and you said he was "was a big hit" and was "WILDLY popular...for a VERY short period of time" so not sure what you're STRONGLY disagreeing about.
While he may have been a "flash-in-the-pan one hit wonder" the fact remains he had an influence on many white kids and was somewhat successful.
But I'm not here to argue about Vanilla Ice, so will leave it at that.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
Bashlets
()
Date: July 11, 2017 05:30
So we really don't know much except single is coming and really soon. Is a Jagger full length album coming soon or is it just a single?
Re: "Mick Jagger" video shoot in London - "Gotta Get a Grip"?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 05:54
Quote
Hairball
Along with Eminem as you mentioned, there was also the Beastie Boys who opened it up for a lot of young white boys who wanted to fight for their right to party. They were critically acclaimed and very successful.
And to a much lesser degree - Vanilla Ice. No matter how much of a fraudulent fool he would eventually be proven to be, he did have a large fan base of mostly white kids glued to their MTV. I doubt he was critically acclaimed (unless it was for being a clown), but he was successful for a short period. I do agree though that rap and hip hop is clearly black art form and remains today a black-produced phenomenon that hasn't been diluted in the same way rock, blues, and many other genres have been. But maybe it will take someone with the super star status of Mick Jagger and his foray in to the rap world with the help of Skepta to change all that, but I highly doubt it.
I am ridiculously embarrassed to have omitted the Beasties. Paul's Boutique is one of the great records of the 80's, in any genre.
I don't expect much to happen as a result of the Skepta/Jagger collab; I just think it's cool that Mick is still out there, searching, trying, looking for new ways to create music.
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