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stonehearted

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LongBeachArena72
Skepta's a fascinating choice for Mick. While there are far more commercial varieties of rap/dance/electro/house music, there's always been a hard-edged underground cool to Grime. (Dizzee Rascal's record that won the Mercury in 2003 is well worth a listen.) So, although Skepta is certainly hot within the genre, his numbers in general aren't off-the-charts high; Mick could certainly have chosen to hook up with someone a bit more mainstream if he wanted a Taylor Swifty-esque dance collaboration.

One thing our Micky probably doesn't get enough credit for is his ongoing love for black music. You may argue that this evolving love hasn't produced many 'hits,' but it's undeniable that Mr. Jagger's love for black music didn't begin and end with the blues. At every step of his career, Mick has indicated an interest in, support of, and love for the newest flavors of African-American pop music.

I think that's pretty cool.

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I remain a bit Skepta-cal about the choice.

It isn't necessarily that Mick is especially interested in "black" music per se. He's just interested in what is perceived as current.

You know, if circus music were current instead of rap or whatever they call it nowadays (yes, at 50, I'm one of those old fogeys who can't name a single popular song that's come out in the past 30 years -- I can't even name a single one of Jon Von Blow-Me's songs from the 80s), then Mick would be moving about saying, "Step right up, ladies and gentlemen and see 'im, Mick Jagger, the Senior Devil!"

Seriously, you know, if I had a music column going, I think I'd call it "The Skeptic Tank" or something.

There are two Mick Jaggers. There's the one who drags around this group of old colleagues of more than a half century, and there's this other guy who hangs out with his Hollywood friends, keeping up on all the new music outside his day job, pretending like the rap stuff is what he'd really rather be doing, instead of all that Jack Flash and Street Fightin' Man that got him all the chicks back in the day.

Now instead he's going to piggy-back on another generation's ideas, like this is always where he was supposed to be all along... while next year he'll be that legendary figure singing about "Satisfaction" and all the rest of it.

Yes, this is Heart of Stone, flushing another issue of "The Skeptic Tank" into the river of... oh, I don't know... I just gotta get a grip on the handle of the urinal and get out of here, that urinal pad is starting to stink...

Well, that’s my 8 beers’ worth for tonight. The Skeptic Tank, going to press (issue 1).

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keefriff99
Hate to agree with you, but this seems dead on. It's difficult to even tell if Mick is passionate about music anymore, or if he just sees it as a commodity for maintaining his fame and fortune.

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stonehearted

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LongBeachArena72
Skepta's a fascinating choice for Mick. While there are far more commercial varieties of rap/dance/electro/house music, there's always been a hard-edged underground cool to Grime. (Dizzee Rascal's record that won the Mercury in 2003 is well worth a listen.) So, although Skepta is certainly hot within the genre, his numbers in general aren't off-the-charts high; Mick could certainly have chosen to hook up with someone a bit more mainstream if he wanted a Taylor Swifty-esque dance collaboration.

One thing our Micky probably doesn't get enough credit for is his ongoing love for black music. You may argue that this evolving love hasn't produced many 'hits,' but it's undeniable that Mr. Jagger's love for black music didn't begin and end with the blues. At every step of his career, Mick has indicated an interest in, support of, and love for the newest flavors of African-American pop music.

I think that's pretty cool.

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I remain a bit Skepta-cal about the choice.

It isn't necessarily that Mick is especially interested in "black" music per se. He's just interested in what is perceived as current.

You know, if circus music were current instead of rap or whatever they call it nowadays (yes, at 50, I'm one of those old fogeys who can't name a single popular song that's come out in the past 30 years -- I can't even name a single one of Jon Von Blow-Me's songs from the 80s), then Mick would be moving about saying, "Step right up, ladies and gentlemen and see 'im, Mick Jagger, the Senior Devil!"

Seriously, you know, if I had a music column going, I think I'd call it "The Skeptic Tank" or something.

There are two Mick Jaggers. There's the one who drags around this group of old colleagues of more than a half century, and there's this other guy who hangs out with his Hollywood friends, keeping up on all the new music outside his day job, pretending like the rap stuff is what he'd really rather be doing, instead of all that Jack Flash and Street Fightin' Man that got him all the chicks back in the day.

Now instead he's going to piggy-back on another generation's ideas, like this is always where he was supposed to be all along... while next year he'll be that legendary figure singing about "Satisfaction" and all the rest of it.

Yes, this is Heart of Stone, flushing another issue of "The Skeptic Tank" into the river of... oh, I don't know... I just gotta get a grip on the handle of the urinal and get out of here, that urinal pad is starting to stink...

Well, that’s my 8 beers’ worth for tonight. The Skeptic Tank, going to press (issue 1).

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bye bye johnny
Thanks, Cristiano.

That first photo with Skepta makes it clear where they were.

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DandelionPowderman

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Rocky Dijon
Apart from the lovely "I Don't Mind," SUPERHEAVY usually felt like Josh was translating for Mick so listeners understood him. This started with "Lonely Without You" and just became routine. SUPERHEAVY should have been better, but even Mick on his own ("Never Gonna Change" and "I Can't Take It No More") was pretty uninspired. Damian and Rahman did a great job with Mick on "Warring People." That's probably my favorite track. Something like "Hey Captain" just left me wondering what the hell they were trying to do. "One Day, One Night" made me want to kick in the TV. I'll give them one star for making me the effort to try and mix things up, but it didn't show any of them at their best. A. R. Rahman probably came off sounding the most uninhibited by the culture clashes. Dave Stewart barely registered as a presence to my ears.

I thought Rahman did the best stuff on that album. He was a bit hidden away, though.

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LongBeachArena72

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keefriff99
Hate to agree with you, but this seems dead on. It's difficult to even tell if Mick is passionate about music anymore, or if he just sees it as a commodity for maintaining his fame and fortune.

This attitude about Mick's solo stuff has always mystified me. If he is anything, Mick is extremely savvy about the state of things in music. I would presume he knows that after decades of desultory efforts, neither he nor the Stones is likely to produce a 'hit' that truly catches fire. So why can't his efforts be seen in the same spirit as Keith's? That he's just an old dude making music he loves? You may think it's shitty music and that it has nothing to do with his day job with The Rolling Stones ... but who cares? He's a musician who likes to make different kinds of music with people he finds interesting. He's a different cat from Keith and there's really no need to insist that both septugnearians always have the same interests, is there? Can't we accept both their motivations for making whatever music they feel like?

Might it not be as simple as that?

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keefriff99

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LongBeachArena72

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keefriff99
Hate to agree with you, but this seems dead on. It's difficult to even tell if Mick is passionate about music anymore, or if he just sees it as a commodity for maintaining his fame and fortune.

This attitude about Mick's solo stuff has always mystified me. If he is anything, Mick is extremely savvy about the state of things in music. I would presume he knows that after decades of desultory efforts, neither he nor the Stones is likely to produce a 'hit' that truly catches fire. So why can't his efforts be seen in the same spirit as Keith's? That he's just an old dude making music he loves? You may think it's shitty music and that it has nothing to do with his day job with The Rolling Stones ... but who cares? He's a musician who likes to make different kinds of music with people he finds interesting. He's a different cat from Keith and there's really no need to insist that both septugnearians always have the same interests, is there? Can't we accept both their motivations for making whatever music they feel like?

Might it not be as simple as that?

I'm not denigrating his solo effort...I like some of his work just fine. His choices just feel a bit desperate for attention sometimes.

I certainly understand that none of us truly know what fires him up creatively...he may truly get an artistic kick out of these collaborations in a way that the Stones haven't done for him in quite some time.

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stone4ever

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keefriff99

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LongBeachArena72

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keefriff99
Hate to agree with you, but this seems dead on. It's difficult to even tell if Mick is passionate about music anymore, or if he just sees it as a commodity for maintaining his fame and fortune.

This attitude about Mick's solo stuff has always mystified me. If he is anything, Mick is extremely savvy about the state of things in music. I would presume he knows that after decades of desultory efforts, neither he nor the Stones is likely to produce a 'hit' that truly catches fire. So why can't his efforts be seen in the same spirit as Keith's? That he's just an old dude making music he loves? You may think it's shitty music and that it has nothing to do with his day job with The Rolling Stones ... but who cares? He's a musician who likes to make different kinds of music with people he finds interesting. He's a different cat from Keith and there's really no need to insist that both septugnearians always have the same interests, is there? Can't we accept both their motivations for making whatever music they feel like?

Might it not be as simple as that?

I'm not denigrating his solo effort...I like some of his work just fine. His choices just feel a bit desperate for attention sometimes.

I certainly understand that none of us truly know what fires him up creatively...he may truly get an artistic kick out of these collaborations in a way that the Stones haven't done for him in quite some time.

You're wasting your breath mate, Mick can do no wrong. Period. That's the way their mind is set and it doesn't matter how disappointing his solo stuff is or that he hasn't done anything any good creatively in 11 years, its all good to them. Yay Mick, Mick the lover of black music blah blah, Mick the hip trend setting rap geezer, oh really !!
To me its just laughable. What an embarrassment.
You are right Keefriff99, its just a desperate attempt to seek attention and make some money, only trouble is they won't buy into it Micky baby, youth will always spot a fake at 20 paces.

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LongBeachArena72

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Hairball

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LongBeachArena72

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman
Skepta: [en.m.wikipedia.org]

"Skepta, is a British grime artist, rapper,"...etc.etc..


Grime artist? WTF is that?

I typed in 'Skepta' in to youtube search, and this is the very first video:

Skepta - Shutdown

I predict another Superheavy/Will.I.Am type collaboration with all the current bells and whistles thrown in...along with some rapping* throughout.
Seems Mick is aiming for the youngsters again while trying to be young himself...will it be any good?
I probably would have been happier with an acoustic blues tune instead, or even another crappy country duet with Don Henley...but won't judge until I hear it.


*Theres nothing completely wrong with Rap IMO as I do like a few old rap tunes myself (Geto Boys come to mind), but does it really belong on a Jagger/Stones recording? (see Anybody Seen My Baby)

Skepta's a fascinating choice for Mick. While there are far more commercial varieties of rap/dance/electro/house music, there's always been a hard-edged underground cool to Grime. (Dizzee Rascal's record that won the Mercury in 2003 is well worth a listen.) So, although Skepta is certainly hot within the genre, his numbers in general aren't off-the-charts high; Mick could certainly have chosen to hook up with someone a bit more mainstream if he wanted a Taylor Swifty-esque dance collaboration.

One thing our Micky probably doesn't get enough credit for is his ongoing love for black music. You may argue that this evolving love hasn't produced many 'hits,' but it's undeniable that Mr. Jagger's love for black music didn't begin and end with the blues. At every step of his career, Mick has indicated an interest in, support of, and love for the newest flavors of African-American pop music.

I think that's pretty cool.

Indeed it is very cool - so many tunes I could list that have been inspired by African American music - and not just the new flavors of the day. But I don't think it's just Mick, as Keith also wears his influences on his sleeve (although he's not as pro-active in embracing the newest flavor of the day). For both of them (solo and and as the Stones) - aside from the blues, you have the soul, the funk, the reggae, the gospel, the r&b, etc., etc., etc,. It just seems that when Mick goes out on his own, the results are usually subpar, but with Keith there seems to be a bit more sincerity (not starting a Keith vs. Mick argument). Ultimately, when it all goes down with the Stones as a band, more often that not it's successful - at least as far as sound goes. Maybe this new collaboration will break the cycle? Or will it be another so-so affair ala Superheavy and/or Will.I.Am? Until I hear it, hard to say.

I'm not sure exactly when it occurred (probably coincided with the rise of hip-hop) but Keith became a calcified crotchety get-off-my-lawn old grandpa when it comes to youthful black music forms. He digs what he digs and he knows how to mine that seam ... but he's lost interest in what's new. That's cool, too. Just a different way of being.

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

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Harlem Shuffler
Mick Jagger solo plus rap??? Please, please no.

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

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keefriff99

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

I don't think you're going to get through to stone4ever, given the vitriol in his tirade.

I like plenty of hip hop music...I just don't thinking mixing modern hip hop with a 73-year old white British man is a recipe for success.

And as far as rap being a bad influence...many of the old bluesmen were hardly paragons of virtue. I'm sure some of the exploits they engaged in put most modern rappers to shame.

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Deltics

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keefriff99

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

I don't think you're going to get through to stone4ever, given the vitriol in his tirade.

I like plenty of hip hop music...I just don't thinking mixing modern hip hop with a 73-year old white British man is a recipe for success.

And as far as rap being a bad influence...many of the old bluesmen were hardly paragons of virtue. I'm sure some of the exploits they engaged in put most modern rappers to shame.

"new and trending"?
Rap and hip-hop have been around for forty years!
Like all musical genres there's great and there's crap and let's face it, there's been plenty of crap rock.
Let's hear it before we pass judgement.

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keefriff99

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Deltics

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keefriff99

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LongBeachArena72

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stone4ever
Like me Keith probably thinks rap is crap. Why would or should Keith pretend to like something if he doesn't. Why would i, why would anyone, that would be so pathetic just to pretend like you're into something because its new and trending. Whats wrong with not liking the latest thing, hell i never liked the latest thing even when i was a teenager.
I find this black jive gangster in your face mother @#$%& attitude a huge letdown to black music in general, and black people come to think of it.
When you think of all the incredible black artists and music through the years its confusing to me that they don't seem to have any good role models today.
When i think of all the greats like Howlin Wolf or Muddy Walters and all we get today is Hip Hop and Rap.
Sorry i know some of you guys love it and good luck to you but it doesn't take genius to make it, not to me anyway.

1) Hip-hop has spoken to tens of millions of people all over the world; it is quite obviously a source of great pride to many people in the African-American community. Its reach and influence on popular and musical culture are nearly immeasurable.

2) White people are certainly entitled to an opinion about the worthlessness of that art form. When a famous white musician however makes those remarks about them most popular black music form in his lifetime ... well, that raises some eyebrows, no? It's ok he doesn't like it ... but why go out of his way to diss it? Just makes him seem like an out of touch dick, in my mind ... altho to you I suppose that may be part of Keith's badge of authenticity. I just remember a time when Keith was more in tune with what was happening on the street.

I don't think you're going to get through to stone4ever, given the vitriol in his tirade.

I like plenty of hip hop music...I just don't thinking mixing modern hip hop with a 73-year old white British man is a recipe for success.

And as far as rap being a bad influence...many of the old bluesmen were hardly paragons of virtue. I'm sure some of the exploits they engaged in put most modern rappers to shame.

"new and trending"?
Rap and hip-hop have been around for forty years!
Like all musical genres there's great and there's crap and let's face it, there's been plenty of crap rock.
Let's hear it before we pass judgement.

stone4ever also refered to rap as "jive"...I don't think this Archie Bunker-wannabe has updated his slang lexicon since 1975.

I'm just thankful he didn't refer to rap as "the coloreds' music".

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MrEcho
Jagger working with Skepta could be as great in its own way as Richards working with Steve Jordan. If Jagger allows it to be a true collaboration.

And, by the way, Skepta is a grime artist, not a "rapper". Two different things. Grime built on rap and hip hop, but it's a genre unto itself.

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peoplewitheyes
Stone4ever, I thought you were out of this conversation?

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frankotero
Hang in there stone4ever. Sometimes I wonder if we're suppose to win at all. But we carry on!