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IrisC
Goats Head Soup is a very good record. What's wrong with Heartbreaker? Winter? Coming down again? Angie? Silver Train? I listen to this record often. Just my opinion.

The article we're discussing claims that GHS was a letdown, coming after an EXCELLENT album (Exile).

I agree about GHS being a very good album, but the the question is whether it was a letdown after Exile or not.

I was two years old at the time, so I wouldn't know how it was perceived back then - apart from what I've read. But by comparing the albums I'd say that Exile is in a different league.

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Stoneage
I think the first one was a director at the record company who thought the album was so bad they shouldn't release it. As I remember this was the last album to close a record deal. Those albums tends to made in a hurry. (About DW)

DW was the first one of the new deal with CBS and some people at the record company was not very happy with the album because it was not a REAL Rolling Stones album (too many guests, the rhythm section missing, full band on only 3 songs) and Mick was not interested at all.

UNCUT - The Ultimate Collector's Edition -- The Rolling Stones



ROCKMAN

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hopkins
I'm a little surprised a lot of folks rate Silver Train so low as if it's not the good one. To me, that's what they do. That's it; I don't have to see the cute jump suit and eye shadow to let it rock my world; but just as a song as a sound; i could just listen to it all day long. I don't even care what the f he's talking about. It sounds right to me. "...ding dong...oh yeah..."
Now there's bang for the buck. They don't change a chord for the first minute. Why bother it's already there. The bell's rung. When they finally do go for a couple of quick changes, it's immediatley back to the first, which now feels like a chorus & everythings up a notch and nothing's changed. Don't change it on my account. I'm fine with it right there. They're generous with that short bridge; just icing on a completed cake. one line repeated twice and it's like the best bridge in rock history and the only one necessary haha. If it was on Exile on the 4th side it'd just be cruel; it would be too good to release. There'd be health warnings and all kinds of extra promo costs for stickers...some of the same fans who slag it would be praising it? If they were smart they'd cut a 12 inch single and make it three times as long! There's a few lurkers here and there during those years of releases that still are definitional stunners for me.




(ty Rocky tough but tender i always suspected you... )

while i don't necessarily agree with you completely i love your passionate defence and you've almost swayed me!

The Stones didn't reconvene in Jamaica because they had never convened there before.

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GasLightStreet
The Stones didn't reconvene in Jamaica because they had never convened there before.

Pedantically, I think you'll find, if you don't believe me and want check elsewhere that the Stones did reconvene, the matter of where they reconvened was/is a secondary issue......

They were apart, they came back together, they reconvened, they could have done that anywhere including Jamaica.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-09 17:16 by EddieByword.

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georgelicks

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Stoneage
I think the first one was a director at the record company who thought the album was so bad they shouldn't release it. As I remember this was the last album to close a record deal. Those albums tends to made in a hurry. (About DW)

DW was the first one of the new deal with CBS and some people at the record company was not very happy with the album because it was not a REAL Rolling Stones album (too many guests, the rhythm section missing, full band on only 3 songs) and Mick was not interested at all.

You're right, Georgelicks. My memory didn't serve me well there. Thanks for the correction. I guess Commander didn't care. He had other things in mind...

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Rockman

^^^ I can feel that in the music.... yes... I can feel the music.
Awesome contribution Rockeee...

I said this kind of before.... this album was where they were at at the time
Goats head soup (and all of their albums) are where the band was at when the albums were created.
I love dropping the needle a Stones album and going back in time, feeling the music times and vibes.

Then again I trust Jagger and Richards when it comes to their music...
I would never second guess, or suggest changes to, something already set in Stones

Awesome contribution Rockeee...


Pleasure Hank .... Mr Cavanagh's ratings are about spot on except for Heartbreaker which should drop a star and hand it over to Angie *****



ROCKMAN

UNCUT - The Ultimate Collector's Edition -- The Rolling Stones



ROCKMAN

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Rockman

Nice review...
and much better stated than the typical yadda yadda said about this album.

If nothing else Dirty Work shows that the Stones are honest.
It is what it is... and Dirty Work is where the band was at the time.

I nearly lost the following post, written on my mobile, but regained it. Have got to post it, before correcting it.

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DandelionPowderman

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IrisC
Goats Head Soup is a very good record. What's wrong with Heartbreaker? Winter? Coming down again? Angie? Silver Train? I listen to this record often. Just my opinion.

The article we're discussing claims that GHS was a letdown, coming after an EXCELLENT album (Exile).

I agree about GHS being a very good album, but the the question is whether it was a letdown after Exile or not.

I was two years old at the time, so I wouldn't know how it was perceived back then - apart from what I've read. But by comparing the albums I'd say that Exile is in a different league.

At the time, during the first hearings, I experienced BEGGARS BANQUET as a letdown. So much did I love THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES REQUEST, and months before I had read about a sixteen minutes long song, allegedly to be called "She Comes in Colours", featuring a symphonical orchestra. I thought at first that the Stones appeared as a parody of themselves. Then gradually I became aware that BEGGARS BANQUET was a great album itself. In fact, for many years that was to me their greatest album, until I many years later gave up the thought of one best Stones album and indicated that there are approximately 12 great Rolling Stones albums, without internal ranking.

After the first letdown experience I later had a feeling that an album meant it was all over, without aggresion, but meekly. This time I never changed the attitude. But a live concert on 20th of June, 1982 (after an uninspired concert the preceding day) gave me back my hope for the band, richly rewarded by their following studio album.

As to the experienced "let down feeling", I must warn many readers that it may provoke quite a few. As I have something of that socalled 'fanboy leaning' I don't always care to mention it. I have not done so earlier in this thread. But I'll do it at this stage. That album is TATTOO YOU.

For instance, DIRTY WORK, I had a quite good first experience of, that is, after a few uncertain hearings. The comparative weakness became gradually visible over time, by virtue of less lasting power as to quality of song material, even if the weakness is TOO MUCH prononounced here by some. The quite limited song material is quite lively played, I think. At least in parts. Probably it is their weakest album, though. Also to me weaker than TATTOO YOU is to me. But TATTOO YOU is more irritating to me. Its light weight opening song with that "Stones classic song"-by-numbers starts the irritating experience. It is continued by that deterioated treatment "Hang Fire" is given. Many years later I heard one of those outtake versions, which showed a song with another potential. And so on, as to that album.

To me, besides, the comparatively warhorse dominated setlists during later decades have been a letdown as well. But as indicated by me in a post in another thread (TSMR-related), when I read about the wish by so many posters to have almost any album made shorter here, instead of only giving a critique, my reaction is that these setlists are richly deserved.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-10 03:18 by Witness.

a beautiful album-what many people fail to realize is goats head is one of those albums that seperate the stones from everyone else.

instead of making 10 remakes of exile and going back to the same well over and over with diminishing returns,the stones do a 180 degree turn and make something completely unique.

it's easy to bash angie as a pop song or whatever without having been there and hearing it for the first time and seeing it for what it was. a new classic stones song and knowing they were going back to work in the vain of blue turns to grey,as tears go by and others from earlier in their career.the entire album is just fantastic from coming down again,to 100 years ago to silver train and on and on..

it should've been named pearls before swine.

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Witness
.... gave up the thought of one best Stones album and indicated that there are approximately 12 great Rolling Stones albums, without internal ranking....

My favorite sentence in the entire thread.
My favorite changes depending on my mood weather woman Im with people Im with things Im doing which season it is my job my lack of job straight drunker than a skunk bored busy happy sad mad joyful celebrating angry sleepy wide awake howling at the moon driving stuck in traffic laughing crying lazy shy bloviated motivated laying in the park on a sunny day hanging out on a boat in 100 degree weather there is my favorite Stones for all and they are all different but the same and that why I love this band so much

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EddieByword

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GasLightStreet
The Stones didn't reconvene in Jamaica because they had never convened there before.

Pedantically, I think you'll find, if you don't believe me and want check elsewhere that the Stones did reconvene, the matter of where they reconvened was/is a secondary issue......

They were apart, they came back together, they reconvened, they could have done that anywhere including Jamaica.

Factually, they did not reconvene in Jamaica.

Convene: verb: convene; 3rd person present: convenes; past tense: convened; past participle: convened; gerund or present participle: convening

come or bring together for a meeting or activity; assemble.

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GasLightStreet

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EddieByword

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GasLightStreet
The Stones didn't reconvene in Jamaica because they had never convened there before.

Pedantically, I think you'll find, if you don't believe me and want check elsewhere that the Stones did reconvene, the matter of where they reconvened was/is a secondary issue......

They were apart, they came back together, they reconvened, they could have done that anywhere including Jamaica.

Factually, they did not reconvene in Jamaica.

Convene: verb: convene; 3rd person present: convenes; past tense: convened; past participle: convened; gerund or present participle: convening

come or bring together for a meeting or activity; assemble.

Oh god........they reconvened (got back together) - in Jamaica - it's simple .. - I knew I shouldn't have bothered - my bad.............

They could have been in Jamaica prior to them going their seperate ways before reconvening there but it's not necessary, they could have been in Tokyo, gone their seperate ways and then, reconvened (come or bring together for a meeting or activity - sic or re-assembled ) in Jamaica............

The 're' applies to the act of assembling, not the place of assemblage...........



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-10 13:35 by EddieByword.

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lem motlow
a beautiful album-what many people fail to realize is goats head is one of those albums that seperate the stones from everyone else.

instead of making 10 remakes of exile and going back to the same well over and over with diminishing returns,the stones do a 180 degree turn and make something completely unique.

it's easy to bash angie as a pop song or whatever without having been there and hearing it for the first time and seeing it for what it was. a new classic stones song and knowing they were going back to work in the vain of blue turns to grey,as tears go by and others from earlier in their career.the entire album is just fantastic from coming down again,to 100 years ago to silver train and on and on..

it should've been named pearls before swine.

As much as I loathe Angie, on GHS it works. But Winter is even better in context of the vibe of the album. Angie is the cleanest most produced track on the LP (obviously). The brilliance of GHS is, perhaps, it doesn't have out and out rockers like Brown Sugar and Jumpin' Jack Flash and Rip This Joint and All Down The Line on it even though Dancing With Mr D is one (a bit laid back but listen to the live version(s) and it makes more sense); 100 Years Ago, Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker), Silver Train and Star Star are.

Had they included Criss Cross Mind... it sounds a lot like Silver Train but is the better of the two, which makes it odd that they chose Silver Train instead for the LP.

It's not the 1971 really screwed up just recorded EOMS Stones, it's the end of 1972 "We've done it" Stones, it's the end of 1972 we need to breathe Stones. The reactions to it not being as good as 1968-1972 could be taken as spoilt Stones fans who refuse to embrace the other that it is and yet they were still goddamned good, it's just not what you want it to be.

Sure it was a departure from EOMS, and as they always do they were moving on to new styles and new approaches.
It's just the execution wasn't as good.
The next two albums -- IORR and B&B -- while certainly not classics, are more enjoyable, imo. I always go back to IORR.

Goats Head Soup revisited


Worth reading thru this old thread from back in 2007 ..... some great rare photos too

[iorr.org]



ROCKMAN

James named his band after this album

Voices... various voices... some no longer with us
GHS is a sad little 3-legged dog and like that sad little dog, some of you find it in your hearts to love it. Maybe because no one else will. i think GHS is the most ethereal and haunting album they have ever released. Rockman, did you create the pink lining yourself...??? Yep!!!...do ya like it? Rhyming "New York city" and "West Virginny"? Considering the dope that was available back then, I consider those lyrics to be a valiant effort. I agree, it's not slick in my ears either, it's very a dim, cool and dark sound, I love it. GHS has distinct ambience and character. when I first started listening to Heartbreaker It reminded me of the theme song from "Shaft" by Issac Hayes. ''Can you Hear the music'' damm right... I just love this track - the way mick sings to the music - um ... is like music to my ears! Amazing how much better the GHS stuff is live on Brussels. They smoke on "Heartbreaker" and "Dancing With Mr. D. 100 Years Ago - one of the best things they ever did. One problem.. it's not long enough. It is true that the funkyness was obvious by 1973 when Billy Preston entered. it's always august 14 at around 2:30 p.m. when i listen to this album. GHS is a summer album for me - took my newly-bought CD on holiday to Cornwall and played it non-stop on the car stereo for a week, so it brings images of sand and waves and surfers. HIDE YOUR LOVE - Killer Taylor all over it. Can You Hear The Music is excellent. I don't get how people don't like it. Goats has a lot of great songs. Just listen to the live versions on Brussels Affair.

Adrian Boot

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EddieByword

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GasLightStreet

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EddieByword

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GasLightStreet
The Stones didn't reconvene in Jamaica because they had never convened there before.

Pedantically, I think you'll find, if you don't believe me and want check elsewhere that the Stones did reconvene, the matter of where they reconvened was/is a secondary issue......

They were apart, they came back together, they reconvened, they could have done that anywhere including Jamaica.

Factually, they did not reconvene in Jamaica.

Convene: verb: convene; 3rd person present: convenes; past tense: convened; past participle: convened; gerund or present participle: convening

come or bring together for a meeting or activity; assemble.

Oh god........they reconvened (got back together) - in Jamaica - it's simple .. - I knew I shouldn't have bothered - my bad.............

They could have been in Jamaica prior to them going their seperate ways before reconvening there but it's not necessary, they could have been in Tokyo, gone their seperate ways and then, reconvened (come or bring together for a meeting or activity - sic or re-assembled ) in Jamaica............

The 're' applies to the act of assembling, not the place of assemblage...........

Uh... OK. Whatever. Because "cause to convene again" doesn't mean anything.

Eddie is right. After the 72 tour they reconvened in JA. Whether or not any of them had even been there before has nothing to do with the word reconvened.

You could say they "reconvened in JA once again" . . . that would mean that they had convened in JA before.

By the way, great thread. I remember waiting for the SmithHaven Mall on LI to open so we could run to Sam Goody's or whatever it was and buy the new LP GHS. It was not really viewed as a letdown by fans then, although Dandy is obviously correct that Exile is a masterpiece so, in that sense, it is, even though I still think there is a lot of great music on it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-10 16:55 by Rokyfan.

This one is certainly not a letdown.
I wonder why they only played it live twice . R&R Masterclass.


[www.youtube.com]

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Rokyfan
Eddie is right. After the 72 tour they reconvened in JA. Whether or not any of them had even been there before has nothing to do with the word reconvened.

You could say they "reconvened in JA once again" . . . that would mean that they had convened in JA before.

By the way, great thread. I remember waiting for the SmithHaven Mall on LI to open so we could run to Sam Goody's or whatever it was and buy the new LP GHS. It was not really viewed as a letdown by fans then, although Dandy is obviously correct that Exile is a masterpiece so, in that sense, it is, even though I still think there is a lot of great music on it.

Cheers Roky..........there's one thing about having an OCD disorder >< about the correct usage of words & acronyms....ur bound to come unstuck at some point....... ....no hard feelings GLS



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-10 19:35 by EddieByword.

We should reconvene to prerecord some alternativefacts

I've said about GHS my meaning on page one.
Liddas: How can you discuss an LP as you where only 5 years of age when it came out?
Years later?
You have to see it "IN THE TIME IT CAME OUT" 1973, and that time is was a good LP.
Afterwards?...... It's easy to say....not good
1973, THAT WAS THE YEAR IT CAME OUT!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-11 06:57 by tioms.

Buying an album on release day may be different from buying it years later and therefor seeing it "from a distance". Still I think most people who bought Exile in 72 and GHS in 73 would think of GHS as a different and not as good album as Exile was.

Btw, I bought GHS prior to Exile in the early 80s. I bought it together with IORR and Black And Blue. After listening to all three albums for several times I thought (and still do think) that Black And Blue was the best of those three albums, followed by IORR. GHS I´ve found always boring and lame, except three songs there´s nothing on the album that gets me excited.

Yes, GHS may present the Stones at that point of time and reflects the mood they were in back then. But I´m very lucky that they got out of that corner soon. I prefer my Stones rough, GHS is too mellow.

It's a very good album . I wish they could do another album at The same level

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HMS
Buying an album on release day may be different from buying it years later and therefor seeing it "from a distance". Still I think most people who bought Exile in 72 and GHS in 73 would think of GHS as a different and not as good album as Exile was.

Btw, I bought GHS prior to Exile in the early 80s. I bought it together with IORR and Black And Blue. After listening to all three albums for several times I thought (and still do think) that Black And Blue was the best of those three albums, followed by IORR. GHS I´ve found always boring and lame, except three songs there´s nothing on the album that gets me excited.

Yes, GHS may present the Stones at that point of time and reflects the mood they were in back then. But I´m very lucky that they got out of that corner soon. I prefer my Stones rough, GHS is too mellow.

Those 3 are a trilogy of sorts, Imo Black and Blue has the best production, diversity and cover. I love the other 2 but that one was the best since Exile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-02-10 23:13 by Moonshine.