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Re: GHS Stones Most Biggest Letdown?
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: February 15, 2017 03:24

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GasLightStreet
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EddieByword
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DandelionPowderman
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EddieByword
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GasLightStreet
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EddieByword
Neighbours & Heaven were brand new songs especially written to go on TY.

They were recorded for EMOTIONAL RESCUE.

Granted there was an embryonic take of each song for ER with guide vocals but they didn't really coalesce into proper songs until after ER was released......

Here's Neighbours from the ER Sessions: [www.dropbox.com]

There's alot more to that than Nico Zentgraf indicates it's true.....but....how does anyone know where these actual recordings come from, for example, I've got a CD called "Compass Point Works" part 1 which claims to have Neighbours take 1 but in fact has even more than the version you've posted.....almost full lyrics up to 1 and half minutes.........and then more lyrics to finish off....(I accept that Neighbours was started for ER sessions but who really knows which, if any of the available versions, is the true take one?

They do a lot of takes sometimes. A bootleg is not necessarily definitive with the takes they recorded. A bootleg is can be wrong with information - that's why it's a bootleg. Regardless of that, Neighbours was recorded for EMOTIONAL RESCUE in 1979 (as was Heaven). It wasn't finished until 1981.

The band did not convene to record new bottoms for tracks that appeared on TATTOO YOU post-EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions because, through the actions of Chris Kimsey, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, none were needed - they had plenty to work with.

For some reason (it's assinine, I know) only one person here just can not understand, get, fathom or grasp that that still means they are new songs for a new album that is a new release.

That's the exact point I was making to Dandy.....and then said, that's why I'd rather rely on the info on Zico Zentgraff's site than CD cover info......Zico reckons there was one take of both Neighbours & Heaven in 1979 ER sessions with only a guide vocal and they were finished after ER was released.

The unreliabilty of CDs was shown up by Dandy's dropbox version and the version on the Compass point boot.....both claimed to be the first take of Neighbours from '79 and yet they are completely different so at least one is wrong if not both............as I say, you're right of course but that's the point I was getting at too......

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 15, 2017 03:42

That's a raw kickass version of Neighbors posted by Dandelion above.
The final cut as we know it on Tattoo You seems to have been neutered through the production process.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: GHS Stones Most Biggest Letdown?
Posted by: HankM ()
Date: February 15, 2017 04:04

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GasLightStreet
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HankM




grinning smiley

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 15, 2017 04:13





ROCKMAN

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 15, 2017 04:36





ROCKMAN

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: boogaloojef ()
Date: February 15, 2017 05:06

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GasLightStreet
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boogaloojef
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GasLightStreet
Just made a playlist of a longer GHS with...

Criss Cross Mind
Tops
Through The Lonely Nights
Waiting On A Friend

... and it's even more killer.

You could also add You Should Have Seen Her Ass and Fast Talking Slow Walking.

I considered it - but they aren't finished, at least from the ones I listened to.

Short And Curlies was also started at the Goats Head Soup Sessions.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: boogaloojef ()
Date: February 15, 2017 05:09

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GasLightStreet
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boogaloojef
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GasLightStreet
Just made a playlist of a longer GHS with...

Criss Cross Mind
Tops
Through The Lonely Nights
Waiting On A Friend

... and it's even more killer.

You could also add You Should Have Seen Her Ass and Fast Talking Slow Walking.

I considered it - but they aren't finished, at least from the ones I listened to.

Short And Curlies was also started at the Goats Head Soup Sessions. I have a version of Fast Talking Slow Walking that sounds pretty good with vocals and sounds close to being completed.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HankM ()
Date: February 15, 2017 06:09

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Rockman
... edited

Further evidence, another one of many many reasons, that Steve McQueen is one of the coolest cats to ever live.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: February 15, 2017 08:58

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HankM
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Rockman
... edited

Further evidence, another one of many many reasons, that Steve McQueen is one of the coolest cats to ever live.


I've pointed this out before, but it bears repeating:

McQueen's catchphrase as bounty hunter Josh Randall in his late-50's TV series Wanted Dead or Alive was, "Les'Go!"

He also worked that line into a lot of his movies as well.

In the Love You Live version of "Star Star" Mick begins the song by saying "Les' Go!"

It could be a coincidence, but I've always figured that was another nod to the coolest guy in movies, Steve McQueen.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 15, 2017 09:28


Ali McGraw got mad with you for givin' head to Steve McQueen



ROCKMAN

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HankM ()
Date: February 15, 2017 10:33

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loog droog
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HankM
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Rockman
... edited

Further evidence, another one of many many reasons, that Steve McQueen is one of the coolest cats to ever live.


I've pointed this out before, but it bears repeating:

McQueen's catchphrase as bounty hunter Josh Randall in his late-50's TV series Wanted Dead or Alive was, "Les'Go!"

He also worked that line into a lot of his movies as well.

In the Love You Live version of "Star Star" Mick begins the song by saying "Les' Go!"

It could be a coincidence, but I've always figured that was another nod to the coolest guy in movies, Steve McQueen.

You taught me something, Thanks!!

I love the Josh Randall series, I came upon it very very late... like 50 years late, but now I have seen every episode (I wish there were more, but I understand movie stardom awaited and paid better).

Josh Randall is a fantastic character. Bounty hunter with a conscience. The Christmas episode is golden... and his Mare's Leg... one of the coolest (if least functional) guns ever. I love the running gag how it is always being taken from him (but he gets it back). They show it on Saturday...

But with all that said, I didn't notice the "Lets Go", but I will watch for it. I am far from done watching that series.

Freekin Steve McQueen!!! Coolest of the cool... serious cool

Mick should be understanding of... uhm... what was it Bianca gave him again?

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 15, 2017 10:40

I named my old band after one of Steve's movies: Bullitt! thumbs up

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HankM ()
Date: February 15, 2017 10:41

I would bet money Steve McQueen laughed his ass off when heard the song Star Star and I bet he a happy to be mentioned.

He seemed to have a great sense of humor and probably appreciated Micks and he was probably amused that The Rolling Stones sent him a special tape of an unreleased song asking him permission (as a mere mortal I can not even imagine getting that) (WOW!). All of which actually raises Steve McQueens cool level even higher... I would not have thought that was possible, it was already 12.9 on a scale of 11

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HankM ()
Date: February 15, 2017 10:43

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DandelionPowderman
I named my old band after one of Steve's movies: Bullitt! thumbs up
smileys with beer

THAT!!! ^^^ is a GREAT name for a band!!!

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: February 15, 2017 14:40

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GasLightStreet
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HMS
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DandelionPowderman

As there are several 1968/1969-songs on SF and Exile

Can you (or someone else) be more precise please? Which songs are we talking about?

Does it mean they recorded or re-recorded songs written in 1968/69 during SF and EXILE-sessions? Or did they use indeed already-in-the-can-material from the 1968/69-period for SF/EXILE?

Revisiting leftovers and re-recording them isn´t a crime, but using finished takes from the past on a new release, well that´s very different. It would shed a new light on SF/EXILE artistically.

For real true Stones fans it makes no difference. Clearly you are not one.

So true fans are not allowed to ask when a released song was written, recorded or re-recorded? Of course it makes a difference. There are fans who want to know when a song that ends up on a new album was recorded. If they release a new album in 2017 and the greatest and most outstanding song would be a song already recorded in 2002, then it matters artistically. If you don´t know the facts, you might think this outstanding gem is all new and they are still great songwriters. But that wouldn´t be true. Everybody except you should easily understand why it is important to know when a song was written/recorded.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: February 15, 2017 14:52

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GasLightStreet
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HMS
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DandelionPowderman
That means that Sticky Fingers and Exile aren't real albums...

And LET IT BLEED and EMOTIONAL RESCUE and IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL and UNDERCOVER.

You know, U is not a real album because it has a song from 1975 on it.

Which song is it? Did they use the recording from 1975 or was it re-recorded?
Re-recording an unreleased song is tolerable, using old recordings for a new album isn´t.

If the re-record Honest Man for their new album, it´s ok.
If they use the vocal and/or instrumental track from back then, it´s cheating on us.

With your terms, irrelevant. Just like your opinion.

Oh yes it´s irrelevant if they are cheating on us. It must be, because true fans have to eat everything without asking where it comes from. Come on you can´t be serious. You really want to tell us that you wouldn´t care at all if they would release the 1994-vocals of Honest Man on a new album instead of recording a new vocal track? Ridiculous, you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 15, 2017 15:03

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HMS
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GasLightStreet
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HMS
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DandelionPowderman

As there are several 1968/1969-songs on SF and Exile

Can you (or someone else) be more precise please? Which songs are we talking about?

Does it mean they recorded or re-recorded songs written in 1968/69 during SF and EXILE-sessions? Or did they use indeed already-in-the-can-material from the 1968/69-period for SF/EXILE?

Revisiting leftovers and re-recording them isn´t a crime, but using finished takes from the past on a new release, well that´s very different. It would shed a new light on SF/EXILE artistically.

For real true Stones fans it makes no difference. Clearly you are not one.

So true fans are not allowed to ask when a released song was written, recorded or re-recorded? Of course it makes a difference. There are fans who want to know when a song that ends up on a new album was recorded. If they release a new album in 2017 and the greatest and most outstanding song would be a song already recorded in 2002, then it matters artistically. If you don´t know the facts, you might think this outstanding gem is all new and they are still great songwriters. But that wouldn´t be true. Everybody except you should easily understand why it is important to know when a song was written/recorded.

Sister Morphine 1968 (recorded March 1969)
Brown Sugar 1969 (recorded 1969)
You Gotta Move 1969 (recorded 1969)
Wild Horses 1969 (recorded 1969)
Dead Flowers 1969 (first recordings started 1969)
Loving Cup 1969 (performed on stage 1969, recorded 1971/72)
Let It Loose 1969 (at least rumoured to be rehearsed demo-recorded in 1969)
Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: February 15, 2017 15:04

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GasLightStreet
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HMS
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GasLightStreet
Just made a playlist of a longer GHS with...

Criss Cross Mind
Tops
Through The Lonely Nights
Waiting On A Friend

... and it's even more killer.


The other way round - making it an EP of four or five songs - would be a more satisfying thing to do, imo.

Goes like this:
01 Heartbreaker
02 Silver Train
03 Hide Your Love
04 Star Star
05 100 Years Ago

Accompanying single-release:
01 Angie
02 Can You Hear The Music

Nope.

Yup.
The EP and the single would have been more satisfiying artistically and nobody would have considered it as a "let-down" after EXILE.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HMS ()
Date: February 15, 2017 15:19

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DandelionPowderman
Sister Morphine 1968 (recorded March 1969)
Brown Sugar 1969 (recorded 1969)
You Gotta Move 1969 (recorded 1969)
Wild Horses 1969 (recorded 1969)
Dead Flowers 1969 (first recordings started 1969)
Loving Cup 1969 (performed on stage 1969, recorded 1971/72)
Let It Loose 1969 (at least rumoured to be rehearsed demo-recorded in 1969)
Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Thanks for providing these interesting facts that are new to me. This indeed sheds a new light on Sticky Fingers. It seems SF after all isn´t really that outstanding on it´s own but benefited greatly from the LIB-period.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: February 15, 2017 16:01

As for the Tattoo You discussions here, to me it ultimately makes little difference that the tracks were culled from past sessions. I admit I did feel a little let down when I first realized that the Stones had not recorded their new album in a new creative burst ala Some Girls, but so what? In the end, it's great album of great songs and despite their diverse origins the album has a very cohesive sound. It truly is their last masterpiece.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 15, 2017 18:40

I agree HonkeyTonkFlash - although I never felt 'letdown' when realizing the origins. For me, it made it all the more intersting and exciting.
It's akin to a visual artist utilizing a sketchbook which has his or her ideas from all periods their career. It's not a crime to make something new out of something older - it's actually genius.
And being prolific with so many extra ideas is a lot better than having 'writers block' and forcing something new - the results of which can be heard on latter day albums such as the inferior Dirty Work among others.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: February 15, 2017 19:36

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Hairball
I agree HonkeyTonkFlash - although I never felt 'letdown' when realizing the origins. For me, it made it all the more intersting and exciting.
It's akin to a visual artist utilizing a sketchbook which has his or her ideas from all periods their career. It's not a crime to make something new out of something older - it's actually genius.
And being prolific with so many extra ideas is a lot better than having 'writers block' and forcing something new - the results of which can be heard on latter day albums such as the inferior Dirty Work among others.

I guess the "letdown" I felt had to do with knowing the Stones had not had a recent burst of creativity in the way that many of their best albums were made. That, in turn made me mull over thoughts like - Have they run out of ideas? Are they approaching the end? At the time, many people were aghast that these guys in their late thirties were about to tour again! "Good God, they're so old!" 40 year old rock stars were a relatively radical concept in 1981. Who knew they'd be playing in their 70's?!

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: February 15, 2017 19:42

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HMS

Thanks for providing these interesting facts that are new to me. This indeed sheds a new light on Sticky Fingers. It seems SF after all isn´t really that outstanding on it´s own but benefited greatly from the LIB-period.

The 'LIB period', let's roughly call it 1967 to 1970, from the time they returned from the 1966 American tour to the time they fled Britain, was an extremely creative period. You might say they built their entire career on this period. Years later, they were still recording songs out of riffs and ideas generated in this period, and pretty much their stage show, set list and persona is built on what they created in these years.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 15, 2017 19:59

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DandelionPowderman

Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Ive got the feeling that Taylor did his overdubs at least one or two years later.

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 16, 2017 00:17

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HonkeyTonkFlash
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Hairball
I agree HonkeyTonkFlash - although I never felt 'letdown' when realizing the origins. For me, it made it all the more intersting and exciting.
It's akin to a visual artist utilizing a sketchbook which has his or her ideas from all periods their career. It's not a crime to make something new out of something older - it's actually genius.
And being prolific with so many extra ideas is a lot better than having 'writers block' and forcing something new - the results of which can be heard on latter day albums such as the inferior Dirty Work among others.

I guess the "letdown" I felt had to do with knowing the Stones had not had a recent burst of creativity in the way that many of their best albums were made. That, in turn made me mull over thoughts like - Have they run out of ideas? Are they approaching the end? At the time, many people were aghast that these guys in their late thirties were about to tour again! "Good God, they're so old!" 40 year old rock stars were a relatively radical concept in 1981. Who knew they'd be playing in their 70's?!

Some say they actually did run out of ideas at that point - at least good ideas. Granted there's a couple decent tunes here and there from Undercover forward, but none of those albums as a whole could be labeled 'classic Stones'. The closest to that level of greatness was Keith's Talk is Cheap which has stood the test of time, and recently Crosseyed Heart (time will tell, but it's a classic for me). It took the Stones doing a blues cover album to bring them back to earth, and hopefully something new an original will come from that.

And yes, I was still in High school around the time of that '81 tour (the first time I saw them), and remember all the talk of the 'oldies' act taking it on the road. Turned out to be two of the greatest concerts I've ever seen! And here we are nearly 36 years, and they're still kicking...maybe hanging by a thread, but they're still here. thumbs up

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 16, 2017 11:48

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TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Ive got the feeling that Taylor did his overdubs at least one or two years later.

You don't like Stainton's playing? winking smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 16, 2017 13:22

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DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
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DandelionPowderman

Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Ive got the feeling that Taylor did his overdubs at least one or two years later.

You don't like Stainton's playing? winking smiley

smiling smiley

Jakkerman likes to overplay though.spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Posted by: HonkeyTonkFlash ()
Date: February 16, 2017 13:57

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Hairball
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
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Hairball
I agree HonkeyTonkFlash - although I never felt 'letdown' when realizing the origins. For me, it made it all the more intersting and exciting.
It's akin to a visual artist utilizing a sketchbook which has his or her ideas from all periods their career. It's not a crime to make something new out of something older - it's actually genius.
And being prolific with so many extra ideas is a lot better than having 'writers block' and forcing something new - the results of which can be heard on latter day albums such as the inferior Dirty Work among others.

I guess the "letdown" I felt had to do with knowing the Stones had not had a recent burst of creativity in the way that many of their best albums were made. That, in turn made me mull over thoughts like - Have they run out of ideas? Are they approaching the end? At the time, many people were aghast that these guys in their late thirties were about to tour again! "Good God, they're so old!" 40 year old rock stars were a relatively radical concept in 1981. Who knew they'd be playing in their 70's?!

Some say they actually did run out of ideas at that point - at least good ideas. Granted there's a couple decent tunes here and there from Undercover forward, but none of those albums as a whole could be labeled 'classic Stones'. The closest to that level of greatness was Keith's Talk is Cheap which has stood the test of time, and recently Crosseyed Heart (time will tell, but it's a classic for me). It took the Stones doing a blues cover album to bring them back to earth, and hopefully something new an original will come from that.

And yes, I was still in High school around the time of that '81 tour (the first time I saw them), and remember all the talk of the 'oldies' act taking it on the road. Turned out to be two of the greatest concerts I've ever seen! And here we are nearly 36 years, and they're still kicking...maybe hanging by a thread, but they're still here. thumbs up

I've always heard that it was not so much running out of ideas but a time crunch. The tour was planned and there wasn't much time to get an album out ahead of it. Plus the Glimmers allegedly were not getting along real well...

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

Re: Goat's Head Soup opinions
Date: February 16, 2017 14:20

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TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
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TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Shine A Light 1969 (Recorded as «Get A Line On You» with Leon Russel in 1969)

Ive got the feeling that Taylor did his overdubs at least one or two years later.

You don't like Stainton's playing? winking smiley

smiling smiley

Jakkerman likes to overplay though.spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

[www.youtube.com]

smiling smiley


Re: GHS Stones Most Biggest Letdown?
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: February 16, 2017 18:43

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loog droog
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HonkeyTonkFlash
So Ultimate Classic Rock calls Goat's Head Soup the Stones biggest letdown....I don't think so....I would nominate Satanic Majesties.
[ultimateclassicrock.com]


I give Satanic Majesties a pass because it was a post-Sgt. Pepper psychedelic product of it's time, put together without a producer when the Stones were in drug-bust turmoil.

In hindsight, Goat's Head Soup isn't the worst Stones album, but coming right after Exile and ending a run that began with "Jumpin' Jack Flash" to Beggar's Banquet to "Honky Tonk Women" to Let It Bleed to Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out to Sticky Fingers and then Exile on Main St, GHS WAS a disappointment.

If you can't tell the difference between the excitement of Sympathy For The Devil/Gimme Shelter/Brown Sugar/Rocks Off as studio album openers compared with the go-nowhere, dead-in-the-water Dancing With Mr. D, you need to get the wax out of your ears.

There are some good things about Goat's Head Soup. But the drop in quality from what they had just done was a shock at the time. While they would end up making worse records, they would never fall so far at once ever again.
May I suggest you a/b test Goats Heads Soup with A Bigger Bang .

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