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Hairball
If you listen the entire album backwards there's a vast improvement.
Even Streets of Love becomes somewhat interesting, sounding like a demonic chant.

I would not play that album forward or backward unless a Priest and Exorcist are present.

….. heck i'd be thinkin' twice about that idea..



ROCKMAN

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Hairball
If you listen the entire album backwards there's a vast improvement.
Even Streets of Love becomes somewhat interesting, sounding like a demonic chant.

Hell, sounds like you could really help them with the new album! Maybe they should simply try to reverse the order of the chords of the brickwall songs, might help them out! - Although, if there's only open G and nothing else, forward or backward won't make much of a difference ...

It's really not a bad album. It has some very good songs on it. But like the latter day Stones albums, it's just way too long. Hell, I love VOODOO LOUNGE and if that album was cut from 15 to 12 songs, it'd be a top 10 Stones album for me. A BIGGER BANG didn't bring anything special to the table though. Had they worked on it longer and made it more eclectic and diverse, it wouldn't be ignored so much.

That's why for the new album they're working on, they know it can't be another A BIGGER BANG. It'll be a more in depth album, and, at the very least, they're taking their oh so very sweet time making it so they get it right. It'll be a Stones album to remember rather than forgetful, like most of their post-TATTOO YOU albums.

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micawber
Best song on ABB is "Let Me Down Slow" imo.

I like that one a lot too. Still, to me Rough Justice is by far the best track.

As for the album, to me it's great, just too long, I could do without those crossed out:

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets of Love
Back of My Hand
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake
This Place Is Empty
Oh no, Not You Again
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Sweet Neo Con
Look What the Cat Dragged In
Driving Too Fast
Infamy


** Sweet Neo Con and Driving Too Fast are borderline, I wouldn't be too upset if those were also removed as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-29 02:42 by LeonidP.

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micawber
Best song on ABB is "Let Me Down Slow" imo.

Yeah, this one and Laugh, I Nearly Died. For me, these are the ones that really stick out of the otherwise "faceless crowd" and beg for repeated listening. The rest ranges from "quite nice" to "simply awful". And the mastering that could only be described as a catastrophe certainly does not help because it lets no room for the music to really breathe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-29 08:34 by retired_dog.

Quote
Hairball
If you listen the entire album backwards there's a vast improvement.
Even Streets of Love becomes somewhat interesting, sounding like a demonic chant.

Well, that's probably what Mick wanted it to sound like, but was overruled by Don Was & Keith with their more "down to earth, basic, rough & simple" approach.

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LeonidP

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micawber
Best song on ABB is "Let Me Down Slow" imo.

I like that one a lot too. Still, to me Rough Justice is by far the best track.

As for the album, to me it's great, just too long, I could do without those crossed out:

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets of Love
Back of My Hand
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake
This Place Is Empty
Oh no, Not You Again
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Sweet Neo Con
Look What the Cat Dragged In
Driving Too Fast
Infamy


** Sweet Neo Con and Driving Too Fast are borderline, I wouldn't be too upset if those were also removed as well.

Yeah, I could go with this. Your suggestion aligns the closest to mine from what I've read.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Another thing about ABB is - there are not enough acoustic guitars on the album.

That is very true.

And not just in the context of acoustic songs

Much of the Stones very best work has the interesting texture and shade of acoustic guitars somewhere in the mix.

I have always loved it, and 14 years later still listen to it. Too long, of course, and the three I leave from my ipod "A Better Bang" are NeoCon, Driving too Fast, and Infamy.

ABB contains some excellent tracks - Laugh, I Nearly Died, Biggest Mistake, It Won't Take Long (took me a long time to appreciate this one; was always a skipper, then one day it simply made perfect sense), Rain Fall Down, This Place is Empty, Dangerous Beauty, Rough Justice..

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Erik_Snow

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retired_dog
Voodoo is not the album it could have been. It suffers severely from the fact that both songwriters used their best material for their then recent solo albums, Main Offender and Wandering Spirit.

For saving ABB, in my fantasy world a much more radical approach than what is proposed here by other posters is required:

Cut it down to a single album, include Under The Radar, Blue and replace Streets Of Love with Old Habits Die Hard to have a decent ballad. And turn the demo-like sounding, one-dimensional Back Of My Hand into something more interesting by adding the electric coda from the live version.

I have always thought the only way to save ABB would be to make it a 7" ; Under The Radar being on the A-side and some kind of outtake being side B. Or perhaps a 12" 45RPM with 4 songs, if being more diplomatic.
But; I like your idea, at least if they didn't brickwall the sound as they did.
By including Blue and Old Habits Die Hard.....perfect 45 RPM, I do think that would be the most perfect option. But what could be the 4th song? Hmmmmmm.....I know; Careless Ethiopians !

Your approach is even more radical than mine... That's probably because you may be a bit (a lot?) younger than me - as we all know, old white men tend to be more ahem/hustle... conservative, what in this case means that I tried to save the album while you prefer to destroy it entirely and build something entirely new from its ruins/ashes.

And for everyone who likes the album as it is - I totally respect your opinions. It's just that, the old guy that I am, my first Stones album was their very first one, and that at a time when it actually came out. Having actually experienced all their wonderful releases since their very start maybe explains why I feel that certain recent albums or better certain tracks on "modern era" Stones albums are not exactly "Stones-worthy" to say it mildly and should have been left in the vaults or published in the "bootleg"-domain what at least would have given them some kind of mysterious "forbidden fruit"-aura...

It's all a matter of perspective I think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-30 00:14 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog
Your approach is even more radical than mine... That's probably because you may be a bit (a lot?) younger than me - as we all know, old white men tend to be more ahem/hustle... conservative, what in this case means that I tried to save the album while you prefer to destroy it entirely and build something entirely new from its ruins/ashes.

I was trying to be as reasonable as possible with the 7" idea, as my first thought when seeing this thread was that they should have written completely new/other songs (maybe mostly coversongs), get a different producer, make different artwork - and let some other musicians do at least 50% of the guitar playing and 100% of the bass playing. Despite Charlie and Jagger being well above retirement-age, which is 67 where I come from; they could work full-time, though. Otherwise it wouldn't really be a Rolling Stones record, but more a "Jammin With Edward part 2" record. Or maybe I just turned it into exactly that in my mind?

The 4th alternative could be, in addition of the re-songwriting and different mxing/production; if they all just SWAPPED instruments, like Bowie sometimes made his sessionplayers do. Maybe that would bring out a new energy. Charlie Watts on guitar, Keith Richards on drums, etc

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retired_dog
And for everyone who likes the album as it is - I totally respect your opinions [....] I feel that certain recent albums or better certain tracks on "modern era" Stones albums are not exactly "Stones-worthy" to say it mildly[...]

Absolutely, both points



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-10-30 08:53 by Erik_Snow.

And it won't take long to forget you
Time it passes fast
It'll all be over in a minute
You'll be in the past

You can lose the love of a lifetime
In a single roll
You can gain a fortune in an instant
Or you can lose your soul

And it won't take long to forget you
You know I'm never wrong
It'll all be over in a minute
And it won't take long, ah…………

……………………………………………. It Wont Take Long -
……………………………………………………………… Jagger/Richards


Love the sheeeeeer brutality of the lyrics and drive of thee guitars… YEAH …..



ROCKMAN

...Oh Yes and Charlie tooo …. ^^^^^^^



ROCKMAN

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IrelandCalling4
I have always loved it, and 14 years later still listen to it. Too long, of course, and the three I leave from my ipod "A Better Bang" are NeoCon, Driving too Fast, and Infamy.

ABB contains some excellent tracks - Laugh, I Nearly Died, Biggest Mistake, It Won't Take Long (took me a long time to appreciate this one; was always a skipper, then one day it simply made perfect sense), Rain Fall Down, This Place is Empty, Dangerous Beauty, Rough Justice..

exactly!

ABB has grown for me, the way GHS did back in the day. It won't Take Long is a great rocking
song, my favorite on ABB. I tend to skip Infamy and SNC.

This is my "Better" Bang

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
She Saw Me Coming

Oh No, Not You Again
Biggest Mistake
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Infamy

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Rockman
And it won't take long to forget you
...…………


Love the sheeeeeer brutality of the lyrics and drive of thee guitars… YEAH …..

Ditto, it is classic Stones to me!

For a latter day Stones album, it has a structure that is pretty good, surrounded by some wonky shit that is pretty bad, that is too long. The previous 2 LPs are similar.

Held up to their recent past, it's an OK album, not nearly as bloated, and had it been a lot leaner track wise, it might be above OK. Overall it's a pretty forgetful album in their discography.

The presence they had from 1994-1999 was huge - all over TV, the tours went all over forever, 2 studio albums, 7 singles, a not-exactly-live album with STRIPPED (and 2 singles) and a proper live album. Perhaps the lack of new LPs wasn't as noticeable.

With ABB being the only thing from 1997 that was new... a lot had changed. And they still had the mentality that more is better because of the long gaps between releases.

My edited and rearranged version of A BIGGER BANG:

Rough Justice
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake
Let Me Down Slow
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Rain Fall Down
It Won't Take Long
Dangerous Beauty
Look What The Cat Dragged In
This Place Is Empty

a bigger bang wasnt the only thing from 1997.

we had 4 songs in 2002, and weve been drip fed songs through the last 3 decades that didnt appear on albums officially.

stones had the material to release 4 albums in the 90,s

and 3 each in the last 2 decades.

that they didnt, dosent mean they never had the songs ready, theyve already been released in other forms. so saying they only done 1 album in that decade is wrong.

they could have done more, although if they did the standards would be lower than voodoo lounge, bridges to babylon and a bigger bang.

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buttons67
a bigger bang wasnt the only thing from 1997.

we had 4 songs in 2002, and weve been drip fed songs through the last 3 decades that didnt appear on albums officially.

I'm going only by new album releases, I don't count those 4 new songs in this instance. Those were tack ons because they could, their version of not being The Beach Boys. They should've just done an EP and left the hits comp alone to itself - or no EP and just the hits comp.

The few tracks here and there, like with EOMS and SG, that's nice and all but it's different. If they pulled another TATTOO YOU with leftovers from however far back, to what, VOODOO, fine, at least they are new songs at the time that didn't get finished that got finished and all come out as one.

I don't know. Every time I see these "let's shorten a CD to LP length" arguments, I'm halted by the fact that it seems like the 10-12 track crowd rarely agree on which songs should be cut. The idea would result in shorter albums, but not necessarily better ones if someone's idea of an album highlight has now gone missing.

The practical side of me says if they're going to put out extra tracks on Special Editions or for Japanese imports, I'd rather they make the albums longer still and save us money in the long run.

There are songs on A BIGGER BANG that are underrated. No, they're not comparable to JJF or Gimme Shelter or even Brown Sugar; but they're still good tracks that deserved a better fate than to languish in relative obscurity because they receive no airplay and will never be played in concert. The same can be said of Mick and Keith's solo albums at least some of the time.

If you're a true fan (and one would think regulars on a message board are just that), you don't really mind the idea of a favorite artist well past their prime. You're fascinated by the flashes of brilliance on albums that others would consider failures. You consider the larger body of work as part of the story and do not look for the vitality of youth either today or from their own storied past.

I know, that's a minority opinion, but it's the only one I've got.

<You're fascinated by the flashes of brilliance on albums that others would consider failures>

Yep

the stones have made albums which are considered relative failures in comparison to the big albums but on most of these albums there are some great songs, and other good songs as well as the filler.

the later albums dont always get the credit for some of the very good songs they have


rainfall down
laugh i nearly died
infamy
this place is empty
gunface
already over me
flip the switch
the worst
brand new car
love is strong

all good enough songs that wouldnt be out of place on better albums.

Not just compared to their Golden Years, but also compared to contemporary releases. Their albums sell consistently well, but as time passes, there is no nostalgia for them after TATTOO YOU. All the platinum certifications they've collected since then don't really matter much when the albums seem transitory and find no place outside of the collections of hardcore fans.

And yes, I agree there are always stand-out tracks on these same releases. The problem is once they stopped being embraced by the younger generation(s), their new material ceased to become part of the collective cultural soundtrack. Consequently, any three hardcore Stones fans naming their favorite tracks on each of these albums beginning with UNDERCOVER will likely have several tracks unique to their list that their other two peers would reject as weak. That didn't happen much when the hits from the first 18 years were embedded in everyone's DNA from constant rotation on radio, in bars and clubs, etc.

Before we get the new album I decided to refresh A Bigger Bang which I haven't listened for a while. My impression is that it aged suprisingly well. Great energy, a lot of great songs (wish they had played Let Me Down Slow and Biggest Mistake live), a lot of great vibe altough the production is pretty "dry" and instrumentation quite basic.

The only thing is that to me A Bigger Bang should've ended with Laugh I Nearly Die. All tracks after that sound like fillers. Alternatively it could be listed as:

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets Of Love
Back Of My Hand
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake
This Place Is Empty
Oh No, Not You Again
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh, I Nearly Died

BONUS TRACKS
Sweet Neo Con
Look What The Cat Dragged In
Driving Too Fast
Infamy

I'd been looking for this post myself! Thanks for resurrecting it franzk!! So no two of us will agree on what should or shouldn't have made the album, and to go along with the debate on the HD thread about wanting more songs, what is great to one is crap to another and vice versa. For instance, I think Driving Too Fast is one of the best songs on the album, and Infamy was fantastic live, though the studio album does seem to lack some of the live version's energy.

If I had to carve out some, I'd remove:

Sweet Neo Con (MJ's worst political song)
Streets of Love

and I'd relegate Look What The Cat Dragged In to the Japanese bonus track.

Otherwise, it's not that bad of an album, though it was the first time I listened to it the other day in years. It's actually a great drum album and Charlie is prominently heard on it, which I think is great!!

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VoodooLounge13
I'd been looking for this post myself! Thanks for resurrecting it franzk!! So no two of us will agree on what should or shouldn't have made the album, and to go along with the debate on the HD thread about wanting more songs, what is great to one is crap to another and vice versa. For instance, I think Driving Too Fast is one of the best songs on the album, and Infamy was fantastic live, though the studio album does seem to lack some of the live version's energy.

If I had to carve out some, I'd remove:

Sweet Neo Con (MJ's worst political song)
Streets of Love

and I'd relegate Look What The Cat Dragged In to the Japanese bonus track.

Otherwise, it's not that bad of an album, though it was the first time I listened to it the other day in years. It's actually a great drum album and Charlie is prominently heard on it, which I think is great!!

Great suggestions and I'd remove Infamy and Driving Fast while we're at it, and add Under The Radar. A lean mean fighting album.

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franzk
Before we get the new album I decided to refresh A Bigger Bang which I haven't listened for a while. My impression is that it aged suprisingly well. Great energy, a lot of great songs (wish they had played Let Me Down Slow and Biggest Mistake live), a lot of great vibe altough the production is pretty "dry" and instrumentation quite basic.

The only thing is that to me A Bigger Bang should've ended with Laugh I Nearly Die. All tracks after that sound like fillers. Alternatively it could be listed as:

Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
Streets Of Love
Back Of My Hand
She Saw Me Coming
Biggest Mistake
This Place Is Empty
Oh No, Not You Again
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh, I Nearly Died

BONUS TRACKS
Sweet Neo Con
Look What The Cat Dragged In
Driving Too Fast
Infamy

This is the best 'edited' version of the album I've seen. Just kick out the last four songs, that's it. None of those four songs really adds anything. I could live without one-time jokes like "Infamy" or "Sweet Neo-Con".

To me the album's always been too long - an endless stream of pretty mediocre tunes - to really grasp what the album as a whole is. There is no album-like artistic shape or statement there. But the problem's been how to shorten it, what tunes to let go.

But now after this proposition I can really see it as an old-time vinyl album with two sides telling me two stories (6/6). And without listening I can say it does pretty awfully against their old albums. The pen of Jagger/Richards were not really working that well any longer. The actual highlights are missing - some generic rockers or a blues pastishe do not save anything, since they should work as good album fillers to support some stronger material, not the other way round. But still it is okayish album, actually a very good album compared to anything outside their own catalogue.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-03 11:45 by Doxa.

Don't be dis'ing Infamy ... it has a wonderful groove, nice guitars, and great singing by keef!