Your humility and good natured apology are sweet s083874 but from my perspective your posts were all non-offensive, insightful and obviously your own opinion, certainly not arrogant. I mostly agree with your sentiments and appreciate your perspective and story about the Staple Center show.

Besides, as a long time fan who has seen shows since at least 1973, you've earned the right to be a bit arrogant if you so choose. As someone who loves that period but missed it, I welcome the perspective of folks like you who were there.

peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 05:11 by Naturalust.

agree the guy took a beating for no good reason.

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Naturalust
Your humility and good natured apology are sweet s083874 but from my perspective your posts were all non-offensive, insightful and obviously your own opinion, certainly not arrogant. I mostly agree with your sentiments and appreciate your perspective and story about the Staple Center show.

Besides, as a long time fan who has seen shows since at least 1973, you've earned the right to be a bit arrogant if you so choose. As someone who loves that period but missed it, I welcome the perspective of folks like you who were there.

peace

Believe it or not I saw the Stones at the Long Beach Arena in '72 and the Forum in '72. They played a smaller club in Hollywood in '72 but i couldn't make it. I also saw Led Zepplin at the Long Beach arena in '72. That concert showed up on their 'How the West was Won' live album released a few years ago.
The Stones '73 show at the forum was a last minute thing. I remember MJ's hair cut short. I was mortified at the '75 show at the Stones forum show. And no I didn't go to church.

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s083874
Believe it or not I saw the Stones at the Long Beach Arena in '72 and the Forum in '72. They played a smaller club in Hollywood in '72 but i couldn't make it. I also saw Led Zepplin at the Long Beach arena in '72. That concert showed up on their 'How the West was Won' live album released a few years ago.
The Stones '73 show at the forum was a last minute thing. I remember MJ's hair cut short. I was mortified at the '75 show at the Stones forum show. And no I didn't go to church.

Wow. Must have been a cool time to see both of those bands. After seeing both in '72, who put on the best show in your opinion? I am a fan of both bands and it seems they were both at their musical zenith then.

peace

The thing that people forget is that the whole band was better in '69-73, not just that Taylor was a member. I mean the way they executed Jumping Jack Flash at over 150 BPM's? That's nuts. It was a perfect storm and it sucks they aren't trying to acknowledge that in correlation with their best album from that period.

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TravelinMan
I mean the way they executed Jumping Jack Flash at over 150 BPM's? That's nuts.

What? I thought you must be joking except for the very specific number you quoted. Yeah they rocked it, very up tempo but I've never heard a version approaching 150 BPM. This is about as fast and rockin' as they ever got and it's just slightly north of 100BPM by my count (104 or so).





And this more modern version is still up there around 100BPM by my count.





peace

so83874, YOU are somethin'!

Beautifully said re MT...I saw those shows...but I recall in late summer of 1970 hearing a version of Midnight Rambler that was as powerful as anything...any musician could ever be. A Swedish audience completely overwhelmed by MR. My God, Jagger and Taylor were amazing
that night!

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s083874

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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s083874
I saw MT in January of 1973 at the Forum. Yes I remember it. Then again at Staples center in 2013 when he played four songs. I said it a year ago and I'll say it today. The Staples center performance with MT put MJ on notice that no way, no how was MT going to upstage any Rolling Stones perfance from that point on. Every performance of the Rolling Stones from 1975-2011 couldn't compare to the Staples center show that evening. Some were close. I have seen them so many times that it all blends together. Except that night.
That being said I think the Rolling Stones are going to be a hard act to follow. That act being themselves from 2012-2014.
And any of you who think that the Midnight Rambler versions with MT over the past two years were just as good or better than any performance of that song from 1969 to 1973, especially 1973, need to have your ears checked.
I am/was happy that MT was asked to play with the Stones the last couple of years. Not happy he was religated to 2 or sometimes 3 songs a show.
I am glad I got to see MT at the height of his career and I am glad there is still a Rolling Stones to go see. Though, after the last show I saw at Staples, I will have mixed feelings at my next Rolling Stones concert.
P.S. If they are going to do Sticky Fingers in its entirety then it should be one PPV in a very small venue. Live. With mistakes. With all surviving members contributing to that album made from 69-71. No bigscreens. Just a few lights. Just good musicianship. And smiles

You need to quit the arrogance. Many regard lots of Ramblers higher than the 69-73 versions without having to even think about checking anything.

A band is not about one person. It never is.

I didn't get that he was being arrogant. It's going to be pretty obvious that Midnight Rambler circa 1969-73 vs. 2012-2014 is going to be better.

And I don't think that his saying Staples as his favourite show since 1975 should be an issue at all, he's entitled to his opinion.

Thank you for that fingers. But I think DP was commenting on my '73 vs now Midnight Rambler as having their ears checked. I apologize to everyone I offended with that comment. I should have not stated that. We all hear and interpret what we experience with our favorite band here. It wasn't fair I generalized comments made by some. What it comes down to is this. And this is just me. Just as the Stones have aged so have I. But my brain is still filled with heavy loud guitar riffs; almost heavy metal back then when Keith hit every cord instead of every 7th. And instruments were replaced with singers. Listen closely and you will hear that "ancient art of basket weaving" on '73's MR. Live. Not like the studio version of Beast of Burdon. Its fustrating as all hell for hard core Stones fans. Including me. Or else this thread wouldn't have 38 pages about Mick Taylor. And your right DP. Its about the band. I love Ron Rood as much as I do Mick Taylor. When you think about it...how do you think Ronnie deals with always being compared to his friend. Both Ron and MT are better guitarists and if it wasn't for Ronnie the Stones would have been history 20 years ago. Too bad Ronnie isn't left to play on his own accord like he was with the Faces. Great band. Again I apologize for my short sided comment.

Thanks. I should have added that the rest of your post was a joy to read, though. But it was indeed the "ears checked"-part I didn't like.

It takes real character to admit mistakes. Thanks again, I always enjoy your posts and stories from the Taylor era

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 13:38 by DandelionPowderman.

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TravelinMan
The thing that people forget is that the whole band was better in '69-73, not just that Taylor was a member. I mean the way they executed Jumping Jack Flash at over 150 BPM's? That's nuts. It was a perfect storm and it sucks they aren't trying to acknowledge that in correlation with their best album from that period.

Well, I think Charlie, Bill and Keith developed a lot as musicians during the 70s and 80s.

Check Leeds 82 for BPMs, btw

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I said it a year ago and I'll say it today. The Staples center performance with MT put MJ on notice that no way, no how was MT going to upstage any Rolling Stones perfance from that point on. Every performance of the Rolling Stones from 1975-2011 couldn't compare to the Staples center show that evening. Some were close

Sorry, what do you mean exactly ? You write that Taylor was not going to upstage them but that this performance was better than anything from 1975 to 2011 (well 2007) ? Sounds like you mean the opposite? Anyway it's been discussed before and I don't think he "upstaged" them, just added some "sould" and got them on their toes. Besides it can't have been a problem for Jagger since he stayed on for 2 tours after that.

As for the "health" issue, surely if there was one Taylor would know about it better than his "friend" who talked to Keno, no ? Nah I think "someone" made a decision and convinced MJ it was the way to go, that it would make his life easier, that Taylor wasn't selling any tickets for them, that he looked grumpy on stage, that keeping him as a permanent guest might reopen old cans of worms, etc...it's a "business" decision. But there's more than "business" in "Show Business", there's the image or dare I say it, the music? With the Sticky Fingers theme and when (if?) they try to play the whole album live at these LA club shows they could certainly have used his musical abilities. Whether that will become a real issue down the road we shall see.

EDIT - Ok, Keno is now pretty clearly saying it's "health" (or more precisely substance abuse related) [www.keno.org] - that's a pretty strong (defamatory?) statement to make especially if it's not true as some well informed people have been saying. Wy would MJ's "lawyer" need to call him to say he wasn't invited if that was really the case?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 14:09 by gotdablouse.

He's saying that Mick decided, there and then, that Taylor wouldn't upstage them again.

I don't think he did either, for what it's worth.

Actually I'm amazed to read that people always relate Taylor to the Stones.That's about 20% of all the music he has done in his entire career. He has done better without them on many occasions.

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Why do you guys think Taylor hasn't announced any solo show dates? It just seems an ideal time for him to capitalize on his popularity and give his fans some great music. Hoping to hear something soon.

peace

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

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LuxuryStones

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

maybe the answer isn't as kleer kut as we're made to believe?

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

maybe the answer isn't as clear as we're made to believe?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 15:51 by LuxuryStones.

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

maybe the answer isn't as kleer kut as we're made to believe?

Haha, Treacle, you obviously do know the word 'kut' in Dutch means <unt.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Why do you guys think Taylor hasn't announced any solo show dates? It just seems an ideal time for him to capitalize on his popularity and give his fans some great music. Hoping to hear something soon.

peace

Maybe he just doesn't feel like playing? He doesn't care so much about 'capitalizing', as he has shown in the past, hasn't he? But I would like him to do a Sticky Fingers tour with a good band behind him. Would be much better than another boring Rolling Stones circus act.

In the meantime, the accepted thesis of a Taylor health issue is just something the Rolling Stones would play in the cards more than ever. "Boy, didn't we get away easily with that tricky one?", I hear Jagger say to his bandmates.

I remember all too well the constant 'explanation' of Taylor not being used more during the past years: "probably a health issue, he won't make it the whole tour long". Well, a sick man touring all over the world for a couple of years, eating his heart out because of not being allowed to play more must be very, very ill indeed.

But I understand those who want to believe in the health issue all too well. Because this 'explanation' would set everybody free: force majeure. But it's called cognitive dissonance my friends. If Taylor had serious health issues he wouldn't have said "I wasn't invited, unfortunately", knowing better than everyone that he isn't able to tour and play. Or do you think Taylor to be a shrewd liar? I don't. Come on guys, don't put your common sense to rest. It's just too early!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 16:20 by kleermaker.

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kleermaker

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

maybe the answer isn't as kleer kut as we're made to believe?

Haha, Treacle, you obviously do know the word 'kut' in Dutch means <unt.

oh dear! that certainly was not kleer before now!

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treaclefingers

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kleermaker

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treaclefingers

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LuxuryStones

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kleermaker

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DandelionPowderman
There are no health issues that prevents him from touring, according to people with REAL knowledge on this board.

Exactly. And also to people with common sense.

Then why doesn't he tour, cut it on his own? I don't need the Stones to enjoy Taylor, even on his (and their) current level. With a band of is own nobody tells him what to play, he's free as a bird, and might get back in playing shape again cause he has to play 12 songs in a row.

maybe the answer isn't as kleer kut as we're made to believe?

Haha, Treacle, you obviously do know the word 'kut' in Dutch means <unt.

oh dear! that certainly was not kleer before now!

Thanks for setting that straight, Kleer.

The only reliable source here is Taylor himself. Let's hope it's a steady one.

What Kleerie said, basically, Having just toured with the Stones, returning to playing with his own band would probably be a bit of a comedown, so (assuming he's doing alright financially after the past few years) he may not be in a rush to do anything. He might also need to get a new band together, given the whole Jeff Allen thing, and that could be a pain in the ass.

I have no idea what Taylor's health is like, and don't wish to speculate, but he seemed better than fine for the past couple of years and would obviously not have toured with the Stones - much less been retained to cover for Keith, as is widely supposed - if he was uninsurable. The medical issues trope is a convenient bit of cognitive dissonance that lets people justify the way the Stones treated him on the 2012-2014 tours. There's no evidence for it. He was ill in 2010 and then got better, as healthy people do.

About Keno, his last post on this subject ('I think with the info I have given, and knowing MT's past history, that most hard-nosed fans can put 2 and 2 together and get a good idea to what is happening without me stating it') is pretty shifty. The implication is obviously Taylor being a relapsed addict, but I'm dubious. The only person on IORR to make this allegation about him in recent years is Mathijs (enough said), and I've heard many accounts from people here and elsewhere who've met Taylor that give the exact opposite impression of him. You can tell a cocaine addict by the way they talk, act and play guitar. Taylor doesn't fit the bill. Also, when is he meant to have relapsed? On tour or more recently? If it was on tour, wouldn't they have gotten rid of him right away? The Stones have enormous experience with managing addictive personalities and keeping them on the road. The idea that they couldn't do it for Taylor as well if they really wanted to beggars belief.

I've been all over the place on this like a pendulum. At the moment there seems to be a real issue that is preventing MT to participate in the tour...anything from not passing a medical to an unfortunate squabble with a band member or management. But there also appears to be a possibility that the issue can be resolved and that MT may be welcomed back for an appearance. 'I don't think' the door is shut completely. The fact that he was disinvited as far back as February is disturbing though...

Regarding a solo tour, if his Facebook page is legit, he commented not long after his other posts that doing a solo tour like in the past was just too much anymore for him logistically, I remember the phrase "too many innings on me" now to go through it. But, right after that saying the Stones type of tour he was fine for.

Whatever the truth is I don't trust that Keno guy at all.Over the years there have always been hints on his board and book about inside knowledge and secret informants,etc. I think that's just whishful thinking . .

Yeah that last post of his is troubling and doesn't fit with the rest of what's transpired.

@StonesCat-Yep, not to mention a bit of a "comedown" indeed, it's not like he's ever been a huge "go getter" either, nothing wrong with that but it doesn't help to be on the rebound.

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palerider22
I've been all over the place on this like a pendulum. At the moment there seems to be a real issue that is preventing MT to participate in the tour...anything from not passing a medical to an unfortunate squabble with a band member or management. But there also appears to be a possibility that the issue can be resolved and that MT may be welcomed back for an appearance. 'I don't think' the door is shut completely. The fact that he was disinvited as far back as February is disturbing though...

That's when someone made the "business decision" not to invite him, I threw around ideas about that aspect of things in my previous post.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-05 17:56 by gotdablouse.

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CousinC
Whatever the truth is I don't trust that Keno guy at all.Over the years there have always been hints on his board and book about inside knowledge and secret informants,etc. I think that's just whishful thinking . .

I'm almost 100% sure Keno's talking bull shit.

We all still recall that Taylor talked about his rehab experience prior to joining the Stones tours. Many here said it was stupid and naive by Taylor to be so open about it. Isn't it logic that if a health problem would be the real issue, he would have expressed something like the following on 'his' Facebook page:

"Dear friends, the Rolling Stones were so kind to invite me for their American Tour 2015 and I feel honoured by that. But my current state of health prevents me from accepting their invitation and I am very sorry about that. I wish everybody a very agreeable tour, enjoying the great music of this great band."

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StonesCat
Regarding a solo tour, if his Facebook page is legit, he commented not long after his other posts that doing a solo tour like in the past was just too much anymore for him logistically, I remember the phrase "too many innings on me" now to go through it. But, right after that saying the Stones type of tour he was fine for.

Then he needs to get some better management and support people working for him. I don't imagine there are many gigs as cushy as a Stones tour but no one can expect that kind of "everything taken care of, 1st class" treatment unless they are a big name act. Obviously coming down from that kind of treatment is probably tough, but I can't imagine he couldn't have a pretty damn good, fairly easy going solo tour if he had the right people on the job.

It's not like he has to carry his own amps, tune his own guitars or load equipment in and out of the venues unless he want to. He can afford to pay for some support to make his tour fairly painless. Although I remember working for a BB King gig where BB did just that, at about the same age Taylor is.

I'm guessing he is just depressed from having recently gotten sober, having a tough time dealing with all the feelings he's suppressed all those years and just wishing he could feel better. I imagine that shit is harder than anything he has ever done before.

peace

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palerider22
I've been all over the place on this like a pendulum. At the moment there seems to be a real issue that is preventing MT to participate in the tour...anything from not passing a medical to an unfortunate squabble with a band member or management. But there also appears to be a possibility that the issue can be resolved and that MT may be welcomed back for an appearance. 'I don't think' the door is shut completely. The fact that he was disinvited as far back as February is disturbing though...

Pale, let's just listen to the great live music from the Taylor-era and cry while listening. My advice would be: You Can't Always Get What You Want and Midnight Rambler from the following video. Especially this MR version has never been surpassed for those who have their ears at the right place. And talking about weaving .. man, this is it! Enjoy and cry!