Tell Me :
Talk
You saw all this. Amazing! Perhaps one more reason Mick Taylor is not on more tunes filling in. If MT helped by often filling in for Keith even more fans would notice that Keith is only half playing.
This is why MT was brought along as an insurance policy in case things (Keith) got really bad. Concert promoters+ insurers maybe demanded it. Maybe have MT playing behind the curtain. As it is Keith's 50% has been deemed sufficient what with Stones not being an instrumental four-piece where Keith would need to be at 90% at least. But have piano/keyboards, horns, background singers making a larger sound that covers a multitude of Keith hits and misses.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 19:27 by EJM.
This does not compute. Any of the Chuck Berry licks he plays in IORR for example, require him to bar the high B and E strings and hammer on and bend the G string. Also the typical Berry riff on the low strings requires him to bar the low E and A strings then hammer on the low A string. Check the video out of It's All Over Now from the other day. He does all this plus plays the lead with hammer-ons in the solo.
PS - The barring is done with the index finger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 19:48 by beachbreak.
So you propose “Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads”.
And my Olivier analogy is a bad one (according to you)? You are suggesting that Keith’s leads are not sufficiently competent and should therefore be taken over by RW and MT. That is tantamount to another actor delivering some of the most memorable lines in Hamlet while Olivier hangs back twiddling his thumbs. IMO, this scenario is demeaning and marginalizing. It also bears repeating that audience & critical response has been exceedingly positive, and critics have not mentioned any alleged “incompetence” on the part of KR. The Stones have millions of fans, and the number of those dissecting and criticizing every single note played by KR is infinitesimal (and they’re all probably posting on this board). The overwhelming majority of fans love the Stones as they are, thank you very much.
Over and out. I can’t look at this thread anymore – too unsettling. Some of the posts are truly insulting to Keith and I hope it is deleted soon.
Barring open-G chords is much more physically taxing than barring the bottom two strings in concert tuning, or marking complete barre chords in concert tuning. It's harder on the fingers and harder on the muscles in the forearm.
People I know who have met Keith say he is cool. Hew was nice to them. Hearing that about Keith is cool. His playing, however, has declined. That is just a fact. Talking about it is not bashing Keith. I have seen the Stones countless times and I always hear remarks about the guitar section being weak -- usually Keith. And that is putting it mildly. MT and Ron playing more with Keith will make the Stones sound great again. It will still be the Stones.
Sorry, but, I still do not think the Olivier analogy is a good one.
The suggestion by yourself and others to have this thread closed is regrettable.
Amen to that. Keith's playing is this, his playing is that. It's almost as if people want to see Keith falter. As if they are enjoying it. People get old or die. I am so glad he is here and playing his a$$ off for 70 years old,in addition to on and off planes, hotels etc. Still sounds great to me and if I could I would see every show I could but I have to rely on the wonder posters on this board. IF you don't like KRs playing or critic him for being old then you really should not listen, Its just that easy.
Have a great time and enjoy Keith! I will be anxiously waiting for the reports and YT's!
But didn't sound as the Stones, it was just surrogate Stones.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
Nate
()
Date: July 1, 2014 16:00
I know this sounds crazy but I'm thinking that the way forward for Keith should be decided by mmm let me think erm Keith 
Nate
Nate
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: July 1, 2014 17:45
Quote
Turning To GoldQuote
DandelionPowderman
[[/quote]
It's not like he fvcks up every time, and how do you explain his great playing on SFM and ADTL? They require three fingers as well.
And he plays on YGTS.
Watch the video of "Street Fighting Man" from Shanghai. I agree with you it's a great, spirited performance. But Keith is playing with a CAPO, and using a lot of open chords. Watch the video closely -- pay attention to his left hand. He is almost NEVER moving his ring finger or middle finger, independently of his index finger. His fingers are NOT moving independently of each other -- something is very wrong there.
And watch the video of You Got THe Silver from Waldbuhne in Berlin, which is where I really noticed this trend, listening to that recording.... While youcould technically argue he is "playing," he only plays the first 40 seconds or so -- watch around 1:09 as he stops playing completely, flails his right hand around in the air, pointing, he holds the guitar, not strumming, for HUGE chunks of the song. Don't deny it. And when he does play, watch closely. He is holding chord shapes with his fingers, but NOT MOVING THEM AT ALL, relative to each other. And again, it's open strings. But how much does he actually PLAY on that song? Maybe 30%? 40%? Be honest. Everyone has known for years that Ronnie is doing the heavy lifting on that number, to his great credit.
My point again, is that Keith can't play his signature barre chords and hammer-ons reliably anymore -- using the index finger, and two fingers hammering on.
Yes he gets occasionally gets "Start Me Up" right once in a while, as he did in Paris....but at this point it's really about 50/50 crapshoot whether he will mess it up or not. Be honest. Listen to the recordings.
I just listened to Berlin the other night, and I was SHOCKED to hear how much the sound guy was turning Keith down. Whole chunks of songs are missing Richards, and then when he's playing ringing chords on open strings (no left hand requireed), as on "Honky Tonk Women" and "Jumping Jack Flash," that's when they GOOSE his volume ridiculous amounts! Because it's a signature lick of his, but when it's open chords on open strings, it's the only thing they KNOW he will 100% not screw up.
He plays a decent solo on "Sympathy" -- a little fractured sounding but decent. Because that's almost all single string work. One note and one finger at a time.
"You Can't Always Get What You Want" -- again that's open strings with a capo, but clumsy and awkward, his fingering is no longer fluid....also in Berlin, I swear I am hearing Chuck helping him out a bit, with an electric piano in there.....
"Midnight Rambler" -- which is by far the BEST song the Stones are playing right now -- also uses the capo and open strings. The ones that are giving him serious problems, are the ones that require him to apply pressure with his index finger and move his other two fingers independently. He just can't do it reliably anymore. All you have to do is watch and listen, it is there to see, plain as day.
You saw all this. Amazing! Perhaps one more reason Mick Taylor is not on more tunes filling in. If MT helped by often filling in for Keith even more fans would notice that Keith is only half playing.
This is why MT was brought along as an insurance policy in case things (Keith) got really bad. Concert promoters+ insurers maybe demanded it. Maybe have MT playing behind the curtain. As it is Keith's 50% has been deemed sufficient what with Stones not being an instrumental four-piece where Keith would need to be at 90% at least. But have piano/keyboards, horns, background singers making a larger sound that covers a multitude of Keith hits and misses.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 1, 2014 18:17
MT is not a player that "fills in".
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
EJM
()
Date: July 1, 2014 19:23
But every now and again it is good - that's what makes the whole thing such fun - are you going to be there on the one might that keith gets it together ? On this board everyone remarks briefly how great charlie Rom and Mick have been and then spend the rest of the post Dissecting in detail keiths good and bad bits - we seem to be endlessly fascinated by this sport. If Keith had nothing left, I suspect everyone would have given up in embarrassment ( cf cross roads and chuck berry tribute where we thought we were for it )Quote
deadegad
The Olivier analogy is a bad one. Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads is not a Keith-less Rolling Stones nor does it may them their own Tribute-Band.
What it does do, however, is make what comes out of the speakers during a concert sound a lot better. Keith's lead on SFTD . . .. For quite sometime now . . .. Has been not very good. .
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
EJM
()
Date: July 1, 2014 19:26
But every now and again it is good - that's what makes the whole thing such fun - wondering if you going are going to be there on the one night that keith gets it together ? On this board everyone remarks briefly how great charlie Ron and Mick have been and then spend the rest of the post Dissecting in detail Keith's good and bad bits - we seem to be endlessly fascinated by this sport. If Keith had nothing left, I suspect everyone would have given up in embarrassment ( NB cross roads and chuck berry tribute after which i thought - wrongly - that it was all over )Quote
deadegad
The Olivier analogy is a bad one. Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads is not a Keith-less Rolling Stones nor does it may them their own Tribute-Band.
What it does do, however, is make what comes out of the speakers during a concert sound a lot better. Keith's lead on SFTD . . .. For quite sometime now . . .. Has been not very good. .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 19:27 by EJM.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
beachbreak
()
Date: July 1, 2014 19:47
Quote
apply pressure with his index finger and move his other two fingers independently.
This does not compute. Any of the Chuck Berry licks he plays in IORR for example, require him to bar the high B and E strings and hammer on and bend the G string. Also the typical Berry riff on the low strings requires him to bar the low E and A strings then hammer on the low A string. Check the video out of It's All Over Now from the other day. He does all this plus plays the lead with hammer-ons in the solo.
PS - The barring is done with the index finger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 19:48 by beachbreak.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
Wild Slivovitz
()
Date: July 1, 2014 19:50
In the latest performances Keith's lead on Sympathy For The Devil has improved a lot. Sure, sometimes there is some bump note, but at least he now is much more reactive and fixes it quicky.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 21:02 by Wild Slivovitz.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-01 21:02 by Wild Slivovitz.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
Plink
()
Date: July 1, 2014 20:26
Quote
deadegad
The Olivier analogy is a bad one. Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads is not a Keith-less Rolling Stones nor does it may them their own Tribute-Band.
What it does do, however, is make what comes out of the speakers during a concert sound a lot better. Keith's lead on SFTD . . .. For quite sometime now . . .. Has been not very good. .
So you propose “Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads”.
And my Olivier analogy is a bad one (according to you)? You are suggesting that Keith’s leads are not sufficiently competent and should therefore be taken over by RW and MT. That is tantamount to another actor delivering some of the most memorable lines in Hamlet while Olivier hangs back twiddling his thumbs. IMO, this scenario is demeaning and marginalizing. It also bears repeating that audience & critical response has been exceedingly positive, and critics have not mentioned any alleged “incompetence” on the part of KR. The Stones have millions of fans, and the number of those dissecting and criticizing every single note played by KR is infinitesimal (and they’re all probably posting on this board). The overwhelming majority of fans love the Stones as they are, thank you very much.
Over and out. I can’t look at this thread anymore – too unsettling. Some of the posts are truly insulting to Keith and I hope it is deleted soon.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
From4tilLate
()
Date: July 1, 2014 21:33
Quote
beachbreakQuote
apply pressure with his index finger and move his other two fingers independently.
This does not compute. Any of the Chuck Berry licks he plays in IORR for example, require him to bar the high B and E strings and hammer on and bend the G string. Also the typical Berry riff on the low strings requires him to bar the low E and A strings then hammer on the low A string. Check the video out of It's All Over Now from the other day. He does all this plus plays the lead with hammer-ons in the solo.
PS - The barring is done with the index finger.
Barring open-G chords is much more physically taxing than barring the bottom two strings in concert tuning, or marking complete barre chords in concert tuning. It's harder on the fingers and harder on the muscles in the forearm.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: July 2, 2014 17:36
Quote
PlinkQuote
deadegad
The Olivier analogy is a bad one. Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads is not a Keith-less Rolling Stones nor does it may them their own Tribute-Band.
What it does do, however, is make what comes out of the speakers during a concert sound a lot better. Keith's lead on SFTD . . .. For quite sometime now . . .. Has been not very good. .
So you propose “Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads”.
And my Olivier analogy is a bad one (according to you)? You are suggesting that Keith’s leads are not sufficiently competent and should therefore be taken over by RW and MT. That is tantamount to another actor delivering some of the most memorable lines in Hamlet while Olivier hangs back twiddling his thumbs. IMO, this scenario is demeaning and marginalizing. It also bears repeating that audience & critical response has been exceedingly positive, and critics have not mentioned any alleged “incompetence” on the part of KR. The Stones have millions of fans, and the number of those dissecting and criticizing every single note played by KR is infinitesimal (and they’re all probably posting on this board). The overwhelming majority of fans love the Stones as they are, thank you very much.
Over and out. I can’t look at this thread anymore – too unsettling. Some of the posts are truly insulting to Keith and I hope it is deleted soon.
People I know who have met Keith say he is cool. Hew was nice to them. Hearing that about Keith is cool. His playing, however, has declined. That is just a fact. Talking about it is not bashing Keith. I have seen the Stones countless times and I always hear remarks about the guitar section being weak -- usually Keith. And that is putting it mildly. MT and Ron playing more with Keith will make the Stones sound great again. It will still be the Stones.
Sorry, but, I still do not think the Olivier analogy is a good one.
The suggestion by yourself and others to have this thread closed is regrettable.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
EJM
()
Date: July 2, 2014 19:11
nobody can deny that Keiths playing has declined. I don't think that is the issue. The question is , is his playing still interesting and indeed more interesting than a technically better player , in the context of playing music that he helped create ? I think he is still interesting to listen to as well as to watch but I am not an expert !Quote
deadegadQuote
PlinkQuote
deadegad
The Olivier analogy is a bad one. Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads is not a Keith-less Rolling Stones nor does it may them their own Tribute-Band.
What it does do, however, is make what comes out of the speakers during a concert sound a lot better. Keith's lead on SFTD . . .. For quite sometime now . . .. Has been not very good. .
So you propose “Keith playing what his health allows him too while Ron and Mick play more competent leads”.
And my Olivier analogy is a bad one (according to you)? You are suggesting that Keith’s leads are not sufficiently competent and should therefore be taken over by RW and MT. That is tantamount to another actor delivering some of the most memorable lines in Hamlet while Olivier hangs back twiddling his thumbs. IMO, this scenario is demeaning and marginalizing. It also bears repeating that audience & critical response has been exceedingly positive, and critics have not mentioned any alleged “incompetence” on the part of KR. The Stones have millions of fans, and the number of those dissecting and criticizing every single note played by KR is infinitesimal (and they’re all probably posting on this board). The overwhelming majority of fans love the Stones as they are, thank you very much.
Over and out. I can’t look at this thread anymore – too unsettling. Some of the posts are truly insulting to Keith and I hope it is deleted soon.
People I know who have met Keith say he is cool. Hew was nice to them. Hearing that about Keith is cool. His playing, however, has declined. That is just a fact. Talking about it is not bashing Keith. I have seen the Stones countless times and I always hear remarks about the guitar section being weak -- usually Keith. And that is putting it mildly. MT and Ron playing more with Keith will make the Stones sound great again. It will still be the Stones.
Sorry, but, I still do not think the Olivier analogy is a good one.
The suggestion by yourself and others to have this thread closed is regrettable.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
deadegad
()
Date: July 2, 2014 19:38
I do want to say --- with all sincerity --- God Bless Keith! Listening to The Stones has given me great pleasure. I am sure many here, such as myself, have been through difficult times, and as music lovers we turned on the Stones to forget about it all for awhile. Thanks Keith! And the others.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: July 2, 2014 21:10
Keith has to play with Winos...this certainly makes him good for his health!
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
DrSnuggles
()
Date: July 2, 2014 21:42
Pls see from 1:15 Angie
[www.youtube.com]
I dont see any drastic deficiencies in his playing abilities.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the guys are NOT 25 Years old anymore. We all have our Auas, Ehhws and Enas, as we get older.
Be aware, the Guys CAN die any day of old age in the advancement of the age. The possibility is absolutely present.
Besides that, I will not move like Jagger when being 70. I am sure of that
And there is no reason to discuss this in text sizes close to medical research studies.
Enjoy the Stones as they are, when they are. Love it, or leave it !!
See you in Roskilde
Doc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-02 21:47 by DrSnuggles.
[www.youtube.com]
I dont see any drastic deficiencies in his playing abilities.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the guys are NOT 25 Years old anymore. We all have our Auas, Ehhws and Enas, as we get older.
Be aware, the Guys CAN die any day of old age in the advancement of the age. The possibility is absolutely present.
Besides that, I will not move like Jagger when being 70. I am sure of that
And there is no reason to discuss this in text sizes close to medical research studies.
Enjoy the Stones as they are, when they are. Love it, or leave it !!
See you in Roskilde
Doc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-02 21:47 by DrSnuggles.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: July 2, 2014 22:05
Quote
DrSnuggles
Pls see from 1:15 Angie
[www.youtube.com]
I dont see any drastic deficiencies in his playing abilities.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the guys are NOT 25 Years old anymore. We all have our Auas, Ehhws and Enas, as we get older.
Be aware, the Guys CAN die any day of old age in the advancement of the age. The possibility is absolutely present.
Besides that, I will not move like Jagger when being 70. I am sure of that
And there is no reason to discuss this in text sizes close to medical research studies.
Enjoy the Stones as they are, when they are. Love it, or leave it !!
See you in Roskilde
Doc
Amen to that. Keith's playing is this, his playing is that. It's almost as if people want to see Keith falter. As if they are enjoying it. People get old or die. I am so glad he is here and playing his a$$ off for 70 years old,in addition to on and off planes, hotels etc. Still sounds great to me and if I could I would see every show I could but I have to rely on the wonder posters on this board. IF you don't like KRs playing or critic him for being old then you really should not listen, Its just that easy.
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 2, 2014 23:42
We'll be digging what Keith plays tomorrow. The whiners can complain about his shortcomings while we're rocking hard in Roskilde
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
mickschix
()
Date: July 3, 2014 01:37
Jagger's solo tour sounded great. The band was hot! I prefer seeing all of the Stones playing together but Satriani did a fine job. Where's Blondie this time around?
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: July 3, 2014 02:39
Quote
DandelionPowderman
We'll be digging what Keith plays tomorrow. The whiners can complain about his shortcomings while we're rocking hard in Roskilde
Have a great time and enjoy Keith! I will be anxiously waiting for the reports and YT's!
Re: The way forward for Keith?
Posted by:
GJV
()
Date: July 3, 2014 02:43
Quote
mickschix
Jagger's solo tour sounded great. The band was hot! I prefer seeing all of the Stones playing together but Satriani did a fine job. Where's Blondie this time around?
But didn't sound as the Stones, it was just surrogate Stones.
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