Mick Taylor told me 20 years ago that the jam at the end of CYHMK was a separate piece of music that was edited on to the first bit because first bit didn't have a good ending.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-30 03:16 by jiggysawdust.

Can't You Hear Me Knocking promo video -

For those of you who preorderd the deluxe/superdeluxe on iTunes:

CYHMK is on your pc/mobile device since yesterday!

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marcovandereijk

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Doxa
I think even the finished vocal melody and lyrics ends up being a bit unimaginative, or too much just following Keith's guitar guide, without really offering a substance of its own, like best riff-based Jagger/Richards songs do.

Well, I strongly disagree about this line! Strongly and firmly!
I think this song is one of the greatest examples of the timing and spacing in the catalogue.
Listen again to this "Yeah, you've got........satin shoes". You may call it following Keith'
guitar guide, I call it a genius groove.

And what about the lift off Mick takes with his vocal lines here: "Hear me prowling
---- I'm going to take you down". No way this could rate as "unimaginative" in my book.

Of course the instrumental part adds to the fun here, but Can't you hear me knocking
would have been a great song even without these last minutes, none the less.

Yeah, it could have been, and it is, without the instrumental part, a great song, but in my book without the long ending the song would have been 'just another' great Stones rocker, and not probably one of the most memorable ones, but now it is a classic piece of its own, one of their distinguished recordings ever. It really adds something substantive to their legacy.

There is nothing wrong with Jagger's melody line, lyrics or interpretation - all of them are great - but I have always had the impression that it misses some little extra push to really realize all the potential the incredible riff base has. Especially the beginning - that dialogue with Keith's riff and Jagger's vocal/shout response works damn well - kicks ass - but as the song goes further the song doesn't quite succeed to keep the thrill it promised so strongly in the beginning. It starts to be a bit repitive. It is probably the part ("Hear me prowling...") you seem appreciate very much that I find a bit downgrade, or somehow losing the focus, or not being able to quite continue the exciting drama of the song. Or it would have needed a middle eight or something. I don't know. To an extent I think they let the development of the song - Jagger's part - a bit torso there.

But I think that doesn't matter at all, since when one listens the whole song, the 'song-part' starts to have a rather different meaning in the context, and I think the instrumental part balances nicely the things, and even makes the 'song-part' more apt than by its own. The song needs to be listened from the start to beginning to 'get' it in its whole glory. I think "Can't You Hear Me Knocking?" is a masterpiece song, and a shining, masterful example of the genious and infallible vision they had at the studio at the time.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-30 12:11 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Especially the beginning - that dialogue with Keith's riff and Jagger's vocal/shout response works damn well - kicks ass

I always loved the voice that can be heard on the left during the very first chords, going "UH - YEY!" kicks ass

Doxa:

know what? I if anything I think that the extended coda somehow overshadows the greatness of Knocking's vocals (studio version of course).

In the past years not only the Stones have delivered some great versions of this song. We also have the Black Crowes, Gov't Mule, the Roots occasionally Mick Taylor's band ... But none of them came close to match the original vocals.

Jagger couldn't, Lisa and Bernard couldn't, Chris Robinson couldn't, and so on ...

On my book, when you have a bunch of top notch vocalists that can't nail the vocals of a song, this means that those original vocals must be something else!

Everything is perfect in the studio take. The phrasing, the timing, Keith's bu vocals, the passion! The passion above all!

C

Yeah by solo I was referring to the pointless guitar babbling Taylor indulges in at the beginning of the take.

As "inspired" and awe-inducing as his work on the Marquee version of "Dead Flowers".

With the Stones you have to bring quality not quantity... "Hey I'm a lead guitarist so I crap my (tired) pentatonic fast licks all over the band's tracks!!"

But Kleer, you're right and I'm wrong : in the vaults there must be 37 takes of CYHMK where Taylor was soooo good he put Richards to shame to the point of making him wanting to quit music altogether! ><



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-30 13:15 by dcba.

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liddas
Doxa:

know what? I if anything I think that the extended coda somehow overshadows the greatness of Knocking's vocals (studio version of course).

In the past years not only the Stones have delivered some great versions of this song. We also have the Black Crowes, Gov't Mule, the Roots occasionally Mick Taylor's band ... But none of them came close to match the original vocals.

Jagger couldn't, Lisa and Bernard couldn't, Chris Robinson couldn't, and so on ...

On my book, when you have a bunch of top notch vocalists that can't nail the vocals of a song, this means that those original vocals must be something else!

Everything is perfect in the studio take. The phrasing, the timing, Keith's bu vocals, the passion! The passion above all!

C

Yeah, Mick nails the vocals in the original, no doubt of that. It is the song per se (the melody line following a bit too closely the guitar guide) that I MILDLY criticize here. It sounds to me A BIT underdeveloped. Jagger, however, really does everything he can as a singer to make it work.

Of course, no one can top Jagger's vocals back then, when he really was in top of his game. It is almost painful to listen him karaoke-singing the song these days (like with, say, "Sway"). I would say teh same goes for Keith trying to recapture those riffs - probably it is the lack of passion you talk here. In a way it is a bit sad to wittness what happend to the song part during modern days: it sounds nothing but an obligatory long intro they played without heart, passion or point, to get to the real issue: the instrumental part. The same thing happend during Wood/Mick's harmonica days as recent Taylor ones.

- Doxa

I move that we award an annual IORR prize for the poster that finds the most inventive and original way to belittle Mick Taylor. I also move that dcba be the first recipient, as his criticism of Taylor solos that only he can hear is unlikely to be trumped.

I always skip to the next track when the jazz outro on CYHMK starts.

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Stoneburst
I move that we award an annual IORR prize for the poster that finds the most inventive and original way to belittle Mick Taylor. I also move that dcba be the first recipient, as his criticism of Taylor solos that only he can hear is unlikely to be trumped.

He simply doesn't know what a solo is and he obviously can't stand great lead guitar playing. That doesn't deserve an award but thundering laugh.

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dcba
But Kleer, you're right and I'm wrong : in the vaults there must be 37 takes of CYHMK where Taylor was soooo good he put Richards to shame to the point of making him wanting to quit music altogether! ><

As far as we know Mick Taylor there must be more than 100 takes with perfect noodling playing of him.

One can only guess why MickT is the opinion that he should have got some song-writing credits for this tune. As one can hear on this demo the lick is from Keith and probably the words came from MickJ - so what for? For playing guitar?? He was paid for, wasn't he?

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kleermaker

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shortfatfanny
I listened three times to that CYHMK alternate version and it's brilliant.
By the way...nice sum up,DP.

If you still listen to it on a regular base over a year I'll send you a good bottle of wine!

Now that's a tempting offer I can hardly resist.We'll figure that out next year...

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shortfatfanny

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kleermaker

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shortfatfanny
I listened three times to that CYHMK alternate version and it's brilliant.
By the way...nice sum up,DP.

If you still listen to it on a regular base over a year I'll send you a good bottle of wine!

Now that's a tempting offer I can hardly resist.We'll figure that out next year...

Yeah, but now you're going to 'listen' regularly just because of that nice bottle of wine! I should have asked it afterwards. But without joking: after a couple of listens you'll never listen to it again. Mark my words.

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dcba
Yeah by solo I was referring to the pointless guitar babbling Taylor indulges in at the beginning of the take.

As "inspired" and awe-inducing as his work on the Marquee version of "Dead Flowers".

With the Stones you have to bring quality not quantity... "Hey I'm a lead guitarist so I crap my (tired) pentatonic fast licks all over the band's tracks!!"

This pretty much sums up Taylor's whole contribution to the Stones for me. He added some fine things to their music aswell, but the majority of what he played, especially in concert, could be described as above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-04-30 15:23 by TheBlockbuster.

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shortfatfanny

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kleermaker

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shortfatfanny
I listened three times to that CYHMK alternate version and it's brilliant.
By the way...nice sum up,DP.

If you still listen to it on a regular base over a year I'll send you a good bottle of wine!

Now that's a tempting offer I can hardly resist.We'll figure that out next year...

Now you HAVE TO listen to it

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TheBlockbuster
He added some fine things to their music as well,

As all good things, Mick Taylors contributions were the best when kept within reasonable
proportions.
I am really fond of his contributions to Love in vain (Ya Ya's), Shine a Light, Doo doo doo doo doo,
and Sway. I could add Tops to this list.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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silkcut1978_

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dcba
But Kleer, you're right and I'm wrong : in the vaults there must be 37 takes of CYHMK where Taylor was soooo good he put Richards to shame to the point of making him wanting to quit music altogether! ><

As far as we know Mick Taylor there must be more than 100 takes with perfect noodling playing of him.

One can only guess why MickT is the opinion that he should have got some song-writing credits for this tune. As one can hear on this demo the lick is from Keith and probably the words came from MickJ - so what for? For playing guitar?? He was paid for, wasn't he?

I'm not sure he's ever actually claimed he should have had songwriting credit for CYHMK. Indeed, he gave an interview a couple of years ago in which he discussed this issue and sounded pretty ambivalent about it:

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Well I did get credit for Ventilator Blues which was a wonderful surprise because I can’t remember having much influence on that at all. And yet other songs I distinctly remember that I should have got credit for like Sway, possibly Time Waits For No One. Though I’m not sure… one has to ask oneself should you get songwriting credit just because you played a wonderful wonderful solo and you’ll probably never, ever be able to do anything as good again in your life.

See here: [madchesterroadtrip.wordpress.com]

Musicianship and songwriting are different things. Taylor did not write Can't You Hear Me Knocking, but you would have to be pretty churlish to deny that his playing on the outro jam is one of the most distinctive features of the song and one of the things that makes it as good as it is.

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Stoneburst

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silkcut1978_

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dcba
But Kleer, you're right and I'm wrong : in the vaults there must be 37 takes of CYHMK where Taylor was soooo good he put Richards to shame to the point of making him wanting to quit music altogether! ><

As far as we know Mick Taylor there must be more than 100 takes with perfect noodling playing of him.

One can only guess why MickT is the opinion that he should have got some song-writing credits for this tune. As one can hear on this demo the lick is from Keith and probably the words came from MickJ - so what for? For playing guitar?? He was paid for, wasn't he?

I'm not sure he's ever actually claimed he should have had songwriting credit for CYHMK. Indeed, he gave an interview a couple of years ago in which he discussed this issue and sounded pretty ambivalent about it:

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Well I did get credit for Ventilator Blues which was a wonderful surprise because I can’t remember having much influence on that at all. And yet other songs I distinctly remember that I should have got credit for like Sway, possibly Time Waits For No One. Though I’m not sure… one has to ask oneself should you get songwriting credit just because you played a wonderful wonderful solo and you’ll probably never, ever be able to do anything as good again in your life.

See here: [madchesterroadtrip.wordpress.com]

Musicianship and songwriting are different things. Taylor did not write Can't You Hear Me Knocking, but you would have to be pretty churlish to deny that his playing on the outro jam is one of the most distinctive features of the song and one of the things that makes it as good as it is.

It's the same with Ry Cooder on Sister Morphine, but he's just doing his job, really, adding some great guitar to a song others wrote.

If I listen to this embryo of Knocking it's difficult to call it songwriting. It's more like the process of a song emerging from rather pointless jams. Which is a special process, and, as Keith Richards has said many times, he or Jagger brought some rough ideas to the studio and then they played and all band members added to what became a song.

This all apart from the songwriting by Jagger/Taylor. As far as I remember one of them said they sat together and played each other off. Basically the same process, albeit in another form.

You're just touching the surface, kleerie. You can hardly conclude with anything at the stage you're advocating from. "Adding to it" probably means a different thing than what you're thinking of here.

Listen to an Extended Version of the Rolling Stones’ ‘Bitch’

[www.spin.com]

I like the different "can't you see i'm the only one" line. Bit messy towards the end, though.

oh, and thanks for posting, Cristiano. You're on top of things as usual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-04 19:43 by Nikkei.

Completely new to my ears and i like it.

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Cristiano Radtke
Listen to an Extended Version of the Rolling Stones’ ‘Bitch’

[www.spin.com]

Yeah! Love it, especially the very end where the tracks are muted one at a time. Very cool. Thanks for posting Cristiano! A good addition to the re-issue.

peace

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marclaff
Completely new to my ears and i like it.

Yeah, great to hear.
Hard to believe they didn't find at least alternate versions of all the Sticky Fingers tracks.

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Naturalust

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Cristiano Radtke
Listen to an Extended Version of the Rolling Stones’ ‘Bitch’

[www.spin.com]

Yeah! Love it, especially the very end where the tracks are muted one at a time. Very cool. Thanks for posting Cristiano! A good addition to the re-issue.

peace

Agreed! Sure an extra, compared to the lame Knocking embryo and dull Wild Horses alternates. I tend to like it even more than the album version. A bit rough, but very energetic and less repetitive.

Oh that's a winner!!!!!!

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TheBlockbuster

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dcba
Yeah by solo I was referring to the pointless guitar babbling Taylor indulges in at the beginning of the take.

As "inspired" and awe-inducing as his work on the Marquee version of "Dead Flowers".

With the Stones you have to bring quality not quantity... "Hey I'm a lead guitarist so I crap my (tired) pentatonic fast licks all over the band's tracks!!"

This pretty much sums up Taylor's whole contribution to the Stones for me. He added some fine things to their music aswell, but the majority of what he played, especially in concert, could be described as above.

I must admit MT shines on this unreleased version of "Bitch".

Now that's an alternate version!!!

WOW!!! Check out the 2 minute mark of the Alternate Bitch....Mick sings "Can't you see I'm the only one.."...the vocal melody, it's straight out of Highway Child.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-04 22:08 by andrewt.