Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

As a dutchman I'm not an expert in English grammar, however, "we want an icecream, please", still sounds quite demanding in spite of the please bit.

They are saving the best for last.....Hyde Park

Excellent idea from Sigghunt who tried posting a petition on the Stones FB site. But it must have been taken down (at least I could not see it).

Some of you mentioned sending Twitter message to Jagger. Great idea! I heard he reads Twitter messages. Rather than preach to the choir on this thread, let's get the message through to the source.

I do not think it would be perceived as demanding -- I think Jagger would be pretty interested to know what the hard-core fans are really thinking. Strange to say, he really might not have a clue. I mean, if we do not ask him, who else would dare?

A year ago I couldn't have envisaged complaining about MT playing Midnight Rambler on stage with the Stones...but after Keith's insinuations and then the reports from rehearsals an expectation was set (in my mind at least) that MT would be playing significantly more than one song. So to read the reports it's very disappointing. Surely they wouldn't miss an opportunity to play (and film) CYHMK live with Keith/Ronnie/MickT all on guitar? Or SFM? Obviously there's still another 15 or so shows to go so anything can happen. But so far....what a let down. And just to be clear - not knocking Ronnie at all (or Keith), but there's an opportunity to do something really special here, it will be a shame if they don't take it. Use him!

Yes go ahead and tweet Jagger! Tonight's show was wonderful, but if Taylor had played a little more....

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

Quote
VT22

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

Based on what I saw in Oakland tonight, I agree. But it was still great to see him. The rest of the show was so strong, I don't regret MT not playing more - they've got the other songs in pretty good shape I think.

Have a look on the mainpage an this message from bv in another thread:

bv
Mick Taylor was waving the four Stones forward, while Keith and the rest of the band said Mick you are part of us, come up and take the final bow with us. The result can be as seen in the new picture on the home page of IORR.com now...

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sonomastone

Based on what I saw in Oakland tonight, I agree. But it was still great to see him. The rest of the show was so strong, I don't regret MT not playing more - they've got the other songs in pretty good shape I think.

I wonder what MT's opinion on this is. At least he could play another song on each gig. Playing MR only doesn't inspire him that much imo, the last version is the most lame I heard so far, that goes for the entire band by the way. It's becoming too predictable. It's Jagger's harp that moves me most.

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sonomastone

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VT22

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Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

Based on what I saw in Oakland tonight, I agree. But it was still great to see him. The rest of the show was so strong, I don't regret MT not playing more - they've got the other songs in pretty good shape I think.

Sorry, but I call BS. The guy hasn't been allowed to work WITH them and gain a rhythm. Only got to go to the last few days of rehearsal, and he can't do anything less since they are only giving him one song. If they put him on more than one song, he'd be steadier. But his one song BIG guest spot makes him have to work overtime and prove something as opposed to fitting in. Out of Taylor, Ronnie, and Keith, I would bet Taylor is the easiest to still be able to play how he used to. Either the Stones see that and don't want to upgrade his part, or they don't really care and are trying to use him to his most limited potential to still advertise and gain interest. Either way, I don't think his playing one song is a result of him not having impressed Sir Mick and Keith enough. I do still think as the tour goes on he will definitely get more songs, but as of right now I have no other way of putting it other than he's getting screwed. Sorry, but one song is a dick move on their part.

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blueyestoo
Excellent idea from Sigghunt who tried posting a petition on the Stones FB site. But it must have been taken down (at least I could not see it).

Some of you mentioned sending Twitter message to Jagger. Great idea! I heard he reads Twitter messages. Rather than preach to the choir on this thread, let's get the message through to the source.

I do not think it would be perceived as demanding -- I think Jagger would be pretty interested to know what the hard-core fans are really thinking. Strange to say, he really might not have a clue. I mean, if we do not ask him, who else would dare?

I posted this yesterday. It still appears to be on the Facebook account and the two replies were not favorable....I did my best....


Scott Sigel Open letter to Mick Jagger re: Mick Taylor

Mick, we know that you are in control of and/or have the final say on many facets of the 2013 tour. This tour will more than likely be your swan song and we know that you want to go out on top. You are now in a very unique position to utilize the talents of Mick Taylor to make a lasting contribution to your legacy. Certainly, his addition to this tour has been significant on Midnight Rambler, but if you are going to bring him along for the entire tour in 2013, wouldn't it make more sense to invite him to play on a mini-set of three songs such as Love In Vain, Can't You Hear Me Knocking or Time Waits for No One where you really utilize his guitar talents? On prior occasions via interviews, etc, you yourself have claimed that Mick Taylor's presence in the Rolling Stones was significant regarding his contributions to the band. Many, many long time Rolling Stones fans who are planning to attend the current tour (and have paid for premium seats) are doing so under the assumption that Mick Taylor was to be on board in a more expanded role. Think of it Mick, what a great way to end a very successful musical career and add to your legacy by having one of your greatest assests on stage in a three guitar attack that would wow the fans every night and garner fantastic reviews!

Unlike · Reply · 6 · 11 hours ago · Edited..


Stephen Conn Taylor is an overrated overplayer. Two songs then off. Guitar masturbation is boring.

Like · 5 hours ago..


Steve Lawshe Mick Taylor was a big part of many of the Stones best songs, but he quit the band and now he is supposed to come in after all these yrs and show up Ronnie by taking his parts back? Not likely. I wish everyone would quit complaining and just dig this amazing tour!

Like · 4 hours ago · Edited..

Get Mick T playing on Time waits for no one and Sway

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Sighunt

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blueyestoo
Excellent idea from Sigghunt who tried posting a petition on the Stones FB site. But it must have been taken down (at least I could not see it).

Some of you mentioned sending Twitter message to Jagger. Great idea! I heard he reads Twitter messages. Rather than preach to the choir on this thread, let's get the message through to the source.

I do not think it would be perceived as demanding -- I think Jagger would be pretty interested to know what the hard-core fans are really thinking. Strange to say, he really might not have a clue. I mean, if we do not ask him, who else would dare?

I posted this yesterday. It still appears to be on the Facebook account and the two replies were not favorable....I did my best....


Scott Sigel Open letter to Mick Jagger re: Mick Taylor

Mick, we know that you are in control of and/or have the final say on many facets of the 2013 tour. This tour will more than likely be your swan song and we know that you want to go out on top. You are now in a very unique position to utilize the talents of Mick Taylor to make a lasting contribution to your legacy. Certainly, his addition to this tour has been significant on Midnight Rambler, but if you are going to bring him along for the entire tour in 2013, wouldn't it make more sense to invite him to play on a mini-set of three songs such as Love In Vain, Can't You Hear Me Knocking or Time Waits for No One where you really utilize his guitar talents? On prior occasions via interviews, etc, you yourself have claimed that Mick Taylor's presence in the Rolling Stones was significant regarding his contributions to the band. Many, many long time Rolling Stones fans who are planning to attend the current tour (and have paid for premium seats) are doing so under the assumption that Mick Taylor was to be on board in a more expanded role. Think of it Mick, what a great way to end a very successful musical career and add to your legacy by having one of your greatest assests on stage in a three guitar attack that would wow the fans every night and garner fantastic reviews!

Unlike · Reply · 6 · 11 hours ago · Edited..


Stephen Conn Taylor is an overrated overplayer. Two songs then off. Guitar masturbation is boring.

Like · 5 hours ago..


Steve Lawshe Mick Taylor was a big part of many of the Stones best songs, but he quit the band and now he is supposed to come in after all these yrs and show up Ronnie by taking his parts back? Not likely. I wish everyone would quit complaining and just dig this amazing tour!

Like · 4 hours ago · Edited..

PS- I am not the most computer savy as I was not able to print a screenshot of the page so I did a cut and paste of my post. If you want to find it to add anything (and hopefully positive), look for Scott Sigel (Sighunt is my username) and you will see my picture with it on the left side of the page on Facebook in the Rolling Stones page. Hope this helps.

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RollingFreak

Sorry, but I call BS. The guy hasn't been allowed to work WITH them and gain a rhythm. Only got to go to the last few days of rehearsal, and he can't do anything less since they are only giving him one song. If they put him on more than one song, he'd be steadier. But his one song BIG guest spot makes him have to work overtime and prove something as opposed to fitting in. Out of Taylor, Ronnie, and Keith, I would bet Taylor is the easiest to still be able to play how he used to. Either the Stones see that and don't want to upgrade his part, or they don't really care and are trying to use him to his most limited potential to still advertise and gain interest. Either way, I don't think his playing one song is a result of him not having impressed Sir Mick and Keith enough. I do still think as the tour goes on he will definitely get more songs, but as of right now I have no other way of putting it other than he's getting screwed. Sorry, but one song is a dick move on their part.

Well that proves it, doesn't it?

He knows all the the songs, and keys, so all he has to do is playing as great as he did back in the days. That requires playing the guitar 3 hours a day (and a decent sound) for a couple of weeks. Either he refuses this, or he lacks the energy. Again for whatever reasons.. Even a talented player like Mick doen't get away with it.


3 or 4 days of rehearsals with the Stones to play 4 or 5 songs should have been enough.

Wait, are some now saying that if he's not playing more is because he's not technically up to it ?! Doesn't make a lot of sense, besides if that were the case it would certainly be easier to have him play a solo on Sway than to ask him to improvise on MR, no ?

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gotdablouse
Wait, are some now saying that if he's not playing more is because he's not technically up to it ?! Doesn't make a lot of sense, besides if that were the case it would certainly be easier to have him play a solo on Sway than to ask him to improvise on MR, no ?

It doesn't matter which songs he's playing on. There's room on every song to let him play beautiful lines. He's always improvising.

I'm not stating that it's Mick fault he's only playing one song, but if you don't hear the technical/timing and melodic decline, I suggest to get the wax out of your ears.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame him. Maybe he found out that there's more in life than playing the guitar.

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VT22

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

You may be his biggest fan and very disappointed as well, but you pull the wrong conclusion by blaming Taylor for not being used on more songs. That's simply ridiculous. Do you expect Taylor to be a masochist or what? (Well, sometimes one is going to think that, regarding his circus act kind of role during this tour (so far).

I just don't get how you can talk about technical aspects of guitar playing and not crack up. This is a band that includes Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood. I love those guys to death, but in current shows they are insanely sloppy. Without any practice at all, there's no doubt Taylor could wipe the floor with them. And again, thats talking about in a technical aspect, which I don't think is necessarily needed when discussing the Stones, but its absolutely the truth if you want to go there.

Bottom line, he's not on one song because Jagger thinks his playing isn't as good as it used to be. He's on one song because the Stones are scared to give him more, and either don't think he deserves it or are acting like their usual dick selves by being extremely pompous. And again, I say that loving all of these band members. But you can't hide or ignore who these people actually are, ie. Jagger being an ego maniac and Taylor being an exceptional guitarist that will apparently roll with anything.

I still don't see how they think ignoring Taylor will help. He's there, and they've already sold the tickets for this tour. You might as well include him. If anything, it'll only sell more tickets. Sometimes I really do see where they are coming from since most of their stuff boils down to money. In this case, I don't see it at all. They are floundering a financial and fan based fantasy opportunity.

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VT22

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gotdablouse
Wait, are some now saying that if he's not playing more is because he's not technically up to it ?! Doesn't make a lot of sense, besides if that were the case it would certainly be easier to have him play a solo on Sway than to ask him to improvise on MR, no ?

It doesn't matter which songs he's playing on. There's room on every song to let him play beautiful lines.

I'm not stating that it's Mick fault he's only playing one song, but if you don't hear the technical/timing and melodic decline, I suggest to get the wax out of your ears.

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame him. Maybe he found out that there's more in life than playing the guitar.

A year ago he still could play like this, so I guess he's still able to play that way, which is great. Instead of dancing around during MR (which they play more like a long jam instead of like a coherent song btw) he could stand still the way he used to do during the great 69, 70, 72 and 73 tours.
[www.youtube.com]

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kleermaker

Quote
VT22

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

You may be his biggest fan and very disappointed as well, but you pull the wrong conclusion by blaming Taylor for not being used on more songs. That's simply ridiculous. Do you expect Taylor to be a masochist or what? (Well, sometimes one is going to think that, regarding his circus act kind of role during this tour (so far).

I'm not blaming him, if your read my previous post, but I do think his chances to play more songs would be bigger if he did a better job, and you and I know he can do that- thanks again for the snippet you sent me

I agree he has to be a masochist regarding this circus act, both on and off the stage, which is bigger than you can imagine in your wildest dreams

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VT22

Quote
Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

I agree that Mick Taylor at the present time is not the same virtuous guitar player as he was in 1969-1974, (nor are Keith and Ronnie at the same level as in the 70s, check out some Ronnie's solos in 1976 tour...), and that can have an effect to his role, but I still think he is an interesting player and I really hope Jagger will give him a second song to play or at least change the song he plays once in a while.

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VT22

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kleermaker

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VT22

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Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

You may be his biggest fan and very disappointed as well, but you pull the wrong conclusion by blaming Taylor for not being used on more songs. That's simply ridiculous. Do you expect Taylor to be a masochist or what? (Well, sometimes one is going to think that, regarding his circus act kind of role during this tour (so far).

I'm not blaming him, if your read my previous post, but I do think his chances to play more songs would be bigger if he did a better job, and you and I know he can do that- thanks again for the snippet you sent me

I agree he has to be a masochist regarding this circus act - which is bigger than you can imagine in your wildest dreams.

You were doubting his technical skills and said Taylor lacks routine and focus now and adviced him to improve, suggesting that by doing so he would have a chance to play on more songs. RollingFreak replied already adequately, so I won't repeat that. Of course he can do a better job, but I'm afraid that's not what they're asking him. I think he's supposed to play the way he does now on MR and that's it. He could easily play otherwise, as we both know well.

As to me, I was very agreeably surprised when he played on MR end of last year, but now it's just humiliating to see him being used as a circus act. Not only humiliating for Taylor himself but also for those who love his playing with the Stones during the Taylor-era (and too bad for 71 Tele who was at last evening's show to see Taylor and the Stones for the first time in his life).

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kleermaker

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VT22

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kleermaker

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VT22

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Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

You may be his biggest fan and very disappointed as well, but you pull the wrong conclusion by blaming Taylor for not being used on more songs. That's simply ridiculous. Do you expect Taylor to be a masochist or what? (Well, sometimes one is going to think that, regarding his circus act kind of role during this tour (so far).

I'm not blaming him, if your read my previous post, but I do think his chances to play more songs would be bigger if he did a better job, and you and I know he can do that- thanks again for the snippet you sent me

I agree he has to be a masochist regarding this circus act - which is bigger than you can imagine in your wildest dreams.

You were doubting his technical skills and said Taylor lacks routine and focus now and adviced him to improve, suggesting that by doing so he would have a chance to play on more songs. RollingFreak replied already adequately, so I won't repeat that. Of course he can do a better job, but I'm afraid that's not what they're asking him. I think he's supposed to play the way he does now on MR and that's it. He could easily play otherwise, as we both know well.

As to me, I was very agreeably surprised when he played on MR end of last year, but now it's just humiliating to see him being used as a circus act. Not only humiliating for Taylor himself but also for those who love his playing with the Stones during the Taylor-era (and too bad for 71 Tele who was at last evening's show to see Taylor and the Stones for the first time in his life).

I do think Taylor lacks practise, so as far as that is concerned, RF's reply is not adequate to me.

I do believe you're right when stating the Stones won't him to noodle as much like he did in
the good old days, but wanting him to play like he does now would make Mick a schizoprenic player. I don't buy that. To me it's a matter of practise.


Anyway, let's hope to hear more playing and more songs with Taylor.

this is very much a unique parodox for the Stones.

I'd point to most of what Keith has said regarding the way Stones songs feature guitar-

..the weaving

..two guys, one thought, where one finishes the other's

..you don't go buy a 'lead guitar' or a 'rhythm guitar' you buy a guitar..

...Keith has consistently expressed disdain for the division of 'lead guitar' and rhythm guitar

but here we have one of the finest guitar virtuosos ever back with them,

and its dominating the conversation.

I sure hope Mick Taylor is featured more, he's great.

guess time will tell..

I'm not happy to see that in the second California show MT did NOT play " Love in Vain"...this does not bode well at all. He got a song cut ALREADY?? What's going on BV??

No one needs anyone finishing their sentences - finish your own damn sentence. Two guitarists playing the same part of a song is - by definition - redundant. In their 69 - 74 hey day the differences between the styles of Richards and Taylor created the interest. To have two Keith Richards in the band is - again - redundant.

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VT22

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kleermaker

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VT22

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kleermaker

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VT22

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Doxa
Yeah, the things are starting to look a bit worrying for our dreams.

It is like a Buffalo Bill Wild West Show where they are presenting this freaky character Sitting Bull as a special attraction but with a limited role...

- Doxa

Dream on. Jagger is the boss, and he's not deaf, and a calculating control freak.
If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs already after all these shows.

It requires more than just being MT: you have to be steady, on every, every song.
Mick lacks that routine and focus at this time, for whatever reasons.
He has to change it, and fast, cause time is running out.

A pity, I'm his biggest fan.

You may be his biggest fan and very disappointed as well, but you pull the wrong conclusion by blaming Taylor for not being used on more songs. That's simply ridiculous. Do you expect Taylor to be a masochist or what? (Well, sometimes one is going to think that, regarding his circus act kind of role during this tour (so far).

I'm not blaming him, if your read my previous post, but I do think his chances to play more songs would be bigger if he did a better job, and you and I know he can do that- thanks again for the snippet you sent me

I agree he has to be a masochist regarding this circus act - which is bigger than you can imagine in your wildest dreams.

You were doubting his technical skills and said Taylor lacks routine and focus now and adviced him to improve, suggesting that by doing so he would have a chance to play on more songs. RollingFreak replied already adequately, so I won't repeat that. Of course he can do a better job, but I'm afraid that's not what they're asking him. I think he's supposed to play the way he does now on MR and that's it. He could easily play otherwise, as we both know well.

As to me, I was very agreeably surprised when he played on MR end of last year, but now it's just humiliating to see him being used as a circus act. Not only humiliating for Taylor himself but also for those who love his playing with the Stones during the Taylor-era (and too bad for 71 Tele who was at last evening's show to see Taylor and the Stones for the first time in his life).

I do think Taylor lacks practise, so as far as that is concerned, RF's reply is not adequate to me.

I do believe you're right when stating the Stones won't him to noodle as much like he did in
the good old days, but wanting him to play like he does now would make Mick a schizoprenic player. I don't buy that. To me it's a matter of practise.


Anyway, let's hope to hear more playing and more songs with Taylor.

Well, always interesting to have a discussion between so called Taylorites.

You bring back the whole issue to a lack of practice on Taylor's side. There may be such a lack (and a lack of rehearsing with the band too), I guess you are a guitar player () and a better judge of that, but no one can convince me that a lack of practice has anything to do with Taylor only playing on MR. And that's what you suggest, saying "If Taylor would have the same sound and fluidity like back in the days, or come close, he had played on more songs ..." I don't buy that and I presented proof by that snippet (SAL solo on Jimmy Fallon's show a year ago, see up here).

There are obviously other reasons that have to do with band politics and, most of all, band image.

I still remember how impressed Bjornulf was by Taylor's playing on the pre-tour clubshow.

gosh yes. Of course. Please two or three numbers with Taylor. Or better yet the whole show.

Agree with the above post - I am predisposed to like all things Mick Taylor. However, if BV comes away from the club show and describes Taylor's performance as sub par - I would have to reconsider my position.