Quote
RobertJohnson
Wish list for a future permanent (I hope so) Mick Taylor-section:

Sway

Time Waits For No One

Dead Flowers

Beast Of Burden

Moonlight Mile

Angie

Wild Horses

YCAGWYW

Winter

100 Years Ago

Hide Your Love

Silver Train

Coming Down Again

... but only in a row!

Quote
71Tele
Some great comments here. No doubt some people still prefer the safe Vegas-era Stones and are uncomfortable with Taylor's performance. Does he overplay at times? Yes. Is he a bit ragged in places? Yes. Was he nervous? Possibly. Did he want to make a statement? Definitely!

Agree with your take, sort of. MR was one of the few songs that they've managed to NOT play like the "Vegas Stones". They really tear it up. CindyC remarked in another thread how Keith's body language during the song was rude to MT. I think he was just trying to keep it all on time with Taylor subconciously trying to speed it up. Not easy. No knock on Taylor, he was justifiably an excitable boy.

Quote
71Tele
So...what do you suppose we will see on Thursday?

- A similar performance of MR.

- A more subdued Taylor on MR.

- A different song (or songs) with Taylor.

- No Taylor at all, because the band was irritated at his performance (my fear).

I don't think you have to worry about that last one Tele.

After watching with joy, and surprise, the first couple of times (thank you Silver Dagger!!!) I then read a few of the more negative comments and looking back again, it then seemed to me Taylor looked as if he might have earned himself a cold shoulder from the band with his approach.

But by now you've probably seen this video as well ...





and it becomes more clear Taylor is getting positive and supporting reactions from Jagger, Richards, Wood and D Jones. Its just the high angle of SD's vid (which is quite fantastic otherwise) that can lend itself to an interpretation of Taylor acting like a nut and ostracizing himself in matter of minutes. If you look at the similar video of Jagger at the MSG show with Bono/Edge and Black Eyed P doing Gimme Shelter, it can appear that Jagger is unsuccessfully trying to engage the other musicians when not playing directly to the audience.

But anyway, yes, Taylor is the antidote and solution to the Vegas shortcomings. More rehearsals and time to integrate Taylor would be the sensible solution, but as there is likely to be neither in abundance, I agree the quick fix would be a less obtuse choice of song(s). Switch to Gimme Shelter, Heartbreaker, etc, and problem solved in large measure overnight!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-28 03:54 by SweetThing.

It was nice to see Mick T. play with The Stones again. But man oh man, he has certainly lost his magic touch.

Amazing, simply amazing. Just wish I'd been there at the O2 London (as I was in 2007) alas I am currently overseas.

Agree x1000 that MT is what's been lacking in the Stones' sound and what would make them brilliant again. (Not to detract from the Brian era of course).

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo
It was nice to see Mick T. play with The Stones again. But man oh man, he has certainly lost his magic touch.

Not quite - there were at least a couple of riffs/licks that made me want to grab a guitar and try to work out what he had just played. That's what Mick T always does to me and he's still doing it

Mick T was clearly enjoying his moment on the big stage. How often does he play to a big crowd like that on a big stage like that? That might be the last time. Unfortunately, he didn't blow me away. I wish he had. I'm all for continuing a solo and going nuts if you're doing something impressive or whatever, but he just kept playing mediocre stuff. The look on Ronnie's face when Mick took the slide out of his pocket said it all. A musician knows when another is bombing. But hey, I'm glad they played together again. It was nice to see, at least!

Well... turn away from the screen and just listen to the audio, There's magic there still. Ok he's not quite what he once was and in a way he has set teh bar too high for himself. But he played odd bits that were still way ahead of what we've been hearing from KR an RRW in recent years. RW is on top form these days by the way, but the magic still flows from MT's fingers on occasion.

Quote
SweetThing

Nice...another version of the song? Nice..we have like 3 complete versions of this song now.

The sound on this one is much better than the others. Much clearer and able to isolate the different guitars. Taylor sandwiches himself nicely throughout most of the songs but there are are few rough patches (mostly the transitions in and out of the middle sections). Let's hope he's had a chance to work on the song before Thursday.

Quote
GumbootCloggeroo
Mick T was clearly enjoying his moment on the big stage. How often does he play to a big crowd like that on a big stage like that? That might be the last time. Unfortunately, he didn't blow me away. I wish he had. I'm all for continuing a solo and going nuts if you're doing something impressive or whatever, but he just kept playing mediocre stuff. The look on Ronnie's face when Mick took the slide out of his pocket said it all. A musician knows when another is bombing. But hey, I'm glad they played together again. It was nice to see, at least!

Ha... Ronnie did seem a bit incredulous there. But its not as if Keith and Ronnie haven't taken turns bewildering each other the last thirty years when the weaving went awry.

Quote
RobertJohnson
Wish list for a future permanent (I hope so) Mick Taylor-section:

Sway

Time Waits For No One

Dead Flowers

Beast Of Burden

Moonlight Mile

Angie

Wild Horses

YCAGWYW

Winter

100 Years Ago

Hide Your Love

Silver Train

Coming Down Again

To me the obvious two are Love in Vain and CYHMK. Some of yours are right on (Sway, Moonlight Mile, Time) some are mystifying (BOBurden), the last 5 would be a great set in a different world 35 years ago but they are not sitting down and working up live versions of all this stuff they they never even did when they were a working band. And its not like Taylor is joining up or anything even if they do anything more thn the 4 more planned.

The best cut I ever heard with Taylor is Gimmee Shelter from Philly 72 early show. Check that out if you have it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-28 07:13 by Rokyfan.

Quote
TimeIs

Quote
Long John Stoner
He was clearly the best guitar player on that stage.

Over their careers, you can debate that. I'll go for Keith, which is more to my taste.

On THIS night, he was by far the worst.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

Quote
carlorossi

Quote
71Tele
Some great comments here. No doubt some people still prefer the safe Vegas-era Stones and are uncomfortable with Taylor's performance. Does he overplay at times? Yes. Is he a bit ragged in places? Yes. Was he nervous? Possibly. Did he want to make a statement? Definitely!

Agree with your take, sort of. MR was one of the few songs that they've managed to NOT play like the "Vegas Stones". They really tear it up. CindyC remarked in another thread how Keith's body language during the song was rude to MT. I think he was just trying to keep it all on time with Taylor subconciously trying to speed it up. Not easy. No knock on Taylor, he was justifiably an excitable boy.

Yes, well this is the point. Taylor took the Stones very much out of the "Vegas Stones" comfort zone, and in doing so, he created a level of spontaneity and raw energy, which has rarely been seen within the Rolling Stones performances for at least the last three decades. He shook things up quite considerably. Keith has needed a challenge for so very long, and because he needs to prove he can still hold his own with whoever, Taylor makes for him very enlightening company. My thoughts concerning Taylor's performance is technically it was no masterclass, in fact there were moments when his playing veered towards being plain embarrassing - he sounded quite out of tune at one point, although Taylor redeemed himself also pretty much with some wonderful jazzy/bluesy licks. Just a flicker of magic here and there made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, which is a feeling i haven't had properly with the Stones since Taylor left the group in 74. Even his less inspiring moments found the Stones sounding dangerous, raw and exciting, which should be in truth, the essence of a Stones live performance. Taylor struck me as lacking practice, as in rehearsal time, almost as though he had come on stage fresh off the street. He needs to fully reaquaint himself with those songs and integrate himself a little more with the band, so there is a little more musical empathy. However, his ability remains intact, if not his level of consistency, but there's nothing missing that a degree of practice can't rectify. I felt the band themselves, and especially Jagger, raised their game, with the fresh injection of energy Taylor brought to proceedings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-28 09:22 by Edward Twining.

I thought it was great...more please. Looking forward to the Thursday 'clips'.

It's a good version of MR but not the best version by Jagger. He looks sometimes lost!

Benjamin.

Quote
treaclefingers
I thought it was great...more please. Looking forward to the Thursday 'clips'.

You can say that again!

I thought it was great...more please. Looking forward to the Thursday 'clips'.

Taylor was a bit unsure about where to solo, that's all. I thought it was a good performance, and Mick helped him a few times. Check out where Mick says "I'll take it", and then he starts his harp solo.

Nobody is giving Taylor the look or a cold shoulder. Keith is just focusing on laying down the rhythm, and that is a harder task when the other guitar player constantly is looking for spots to play solo licks.

All in all it was great seeing Taylor again, and this number, and hopefully others, will be even greater with time - if Taylor indeed joins in for the rest of the shows.

Quote
Edward Twining

Quote
carlorossi

Quote
71Tele
Some great comments here. No doubt some people still prefer the safe Vegas-era Stones and are uncomfortable with Taylor's performance. Does he overplay at times? Yes. Is he a bit ragged in places? Yes. Was he nervous? Possibly. Did he want to make a statement? Definitely!

Agree with your take, sort of. MR was one of the few songs that they've managed to NOT play like the "Vegas Stones". They really tear it up. CindyC remarked in another thread how Keith's body language during the song was rude to MT. I think he was just trying to keep it all on time with Taylor subconciously trying to speed it up. Not easy. No knock on Taylor, he was justifiably an excitable boy.

Yes, well this is the point. Taylor took the Stones very much out of the "Vegas Stones" comfort zone, and in doing so, he created a level of spontaneity and raw energy, which has rarely been seen within the Rolling Stones performances for at least the last three decades. He shook things up quite considerably. Keith has needed a challenge for so very long, and because he needs to prove he can still hold his own with whoever, Taylor makes for him very enlightening company. My thoughts concerning Taylor's performance is technically it was no masterclass, in fact there were moments when his playing veered towards being plain embarrassing - he sounded quite out of tune at one point, although Taylor redeemed himself also pretty much with some wonderful jazzy/bluesy licks. Just a flicker of magic here and there made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, which is a feeling i haven't had properly with the Stones since Taylor left the group in 74. Even his less inspiring moments found the Stones sounding dangerous, raw and exciting, which should be in truth, the essence of a Stones live performance. Taylor struck me as lacking practice, as in rehearsal time, almost as though he had come on stage fresh off the street. He needs to fully reaquaint himself with those songs and integrate himself a little more with the band, so there is a little more musical empathy. However, his ability remains intact, if not his level of consistency, but there's nothing missing that a degree of practice can't rectify. I felt the band themselves, and especially Jagger, raised their game, with the fresh injection of energy Taylor brought to proceedings.

Well Edward, I don't agree. This time The Stones took themselves very much out of the "Vegas Stones" comfort zone:

- The setlist
- The minimal use of backing musicians
- Keith's playing
- The long set list
- The brave concept

That said, Midnight Rambler is a song that will never be "Vegas" in the first place. Mainly because of the loose structure and the fact that it will always be Keith that leads it.

Quote
71Tele
Some great comments here. No doubt some people still prefer the safe Vegas-era Stones and are uncomfortable with Taylor's performance. Does he overplay at times? Yes. Is he a bit ragged in places? Yes. Was he nervous? Possibly. Did he want to make a statement? Definitely!

But he achieved what no one else has in 25 years. He made the Rolling Stones dangerous again. For 12 minutes anyway.

Yes, that really was extraordinary! But actually I think the show marked a promissing departure from the vegas years softer more family friendly guitar sound, toward something like a resurrection of the heavier guitar sound from GYYYO and El Mocambo.

Quote
TimeIs

Quote
NickB
and didn't pay enough attention to his playing which was often off time and in the wrong key. He kind of spoiled it for me trying to take over and dominate the stage. To me he made himself look a bit of a jerk and in hindsight I'm sure he'll realise. If he came out and just stood there and played properly and listened to what the other musicians were playing then I'm sure it would have been better.

As for the need to rehearse the song with the band.....not sure that he does..he just needs to listen rather than play all over the song.

Amen. Off tempo and off key. Those are kind of pretty basic for any musician.

Someone else said he fills out the sound as opposed to Ronnie. There's a difference between filling out the sound and drowning it out. Young teenagers learning to play the guitar for the first time "fill" out the sound that way.

I'm sure nerves or something must have been playing with him, but man that was just a shock to see, especially after the initial excitement of hearing he was playing Rambler and all this fans' raving about it - hence my posts about it.

Actually the audio of the song sounds better than the video clip. There is a lot of noise bouncing around on the you tube clip so it sounds messier than it was. He certainly overplayed IMO (and I'm a big fan) but there were some nice moments for sure. They could edit some of his licks out and it would sound a lot better.

I just watched the MT Midnight Rambler in full for the first time since seeing the show.

Rock'n Roll just doesn't get any better than this for me.

Cheers everybody!!!!

If anyone cares to check recent Mick Taylor footage on Youtube at some of his more recent solo like gigs they will find out that Mick Taylor basically plays at the same level as he is on the O2 Midnight Rambler.

It's sort of hit and miss.

Maybe he doesn't practice as much as he used to.

Midnight Rambler is not a hard song for a Rock/Blues guitarist to play so it's not the song or the arrangement because it's all pretty piss easy and Taylor would have known what they were going to do anyway as Jeff Beck also knew his spot.

Obviously Jagger and him had some sort of harp/guitar thing loosely worked out beforehand and Mick probably told him to move around a bit more onstage and Keith and Ron mostly lurked in the background to not interfere with Taylor's moment with the Stones too much.

It's not a case of getting Mick Taylor up out of the crowd for an unexpected Jam, like it was with Keith and Elvis Costello.

I just think Taylor doesn't practice as much and has lost some edge which is pretty easy to do as time marches on.

It's not a bad performance but it's nowhere near great, it's more ok with occasional flashes of near great.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-28 12:25 by howled.

The question is..do you want to see MT with the Stones again, for as long as the band continues?

If the answer is NO, by all means, carry on with these criticisms of his performance. They are sure to have the desired effect.

Great post tele. Yup, MT shook it up. And MOVED! Shit he moved more than him and Bill Wyman combined in just this one show. Some beautiful guitar work. Yes, sloppy at times, overplayed, and a funky wrong key hit. But it was glorious. Brought out an edge that hasn't been heard in too long. I wish to hell they would do Plundered My Soul! WOuld sound great live. But I suspect, Keith views that as a Mick J solo song...and would balk at it.

Hey Bliss. Yes of course we want to see him again. Like I said earlier it's observation and not criticism. I'm sure the Stones are able to make their own mind up about Mick T without us lot.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Quote
Rokyfan

Quote
RobertJohnson
Wish list for a future permanent (I hope so) Mick Taylor-section:

Sway

Time Waits For No One

Dead Flowers

Beast Of Burden

Moonlight Mile

Angie

Wild Horses

YCAGWYW

Winter

100 Years Ago

Hide Your Love

Silver Train

Coming Down Again

To me the obvious two are Love in Vain and CYHMK. Some of yours are right on (Sway, Moonlight Mile, Time) some are mystifying (BOBurden), the last 5 would be a great set in a different world 35 years ago but they are not sitting down and working up live versions of all this stuff they they never even did when they were a working band. And its not like Taylor is joining up or anything even if they do anything more thn the 4 more planned.

The best cut I ever heard with Taylor is Gimmee Shelter from Philly 72 early show. Check that out if you have it.

absolutely true. This is the best version and listen to the Great Dane Record one... amazing

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

Quote
Rokyfan

Quote
RobertJohnson
Wish list for a future permanent (I hope so) Mick Taylor-section:

Sway

Time Waits For No One

Dead Flowers

Beast Of Burden

Moonlight Mile

Angie

Wild Horses

YCAGWYW

Winter

100 Years Ago

Hide Your Love

Silver Train

Coming Down Again

To me the obvious two are Love in Vain and CYHMK. Some of yours are right on (Sway, Moonlight Mile, Time) some are mystifying (BOBurden), the last 5 would be a great set in a different world 35 years ago but they are not sitting down and working up live versions of all this stuff they they never even did when they were a working band. And its not like Taylor is joining up or anything even if they do anything more thn the 4 more planned.

The best cut I ever heard with Taylor is Gimmee Shelter from Philly 72 early show. Check that out if you have it.

Without any doubt there are another special "Taylor wish list" tracks, e.g. Love in Vain or Gimme Shelter. It is up to all to add another tracks. In fact the Taylor-solos on GS are great, but also Ronnie's in 75 or 89 (one of the few versions of the 89/90 tour I like). Beast of Burden is my all time favorite Stones track, so I'm curious to listen to a Taylorite-interpretation.

Quote
Bliss
The question is..do you want to see MT with the Stones again, for as long as the band continues?

If the answer is NO, by all means, carry on with these criticisms of his performance. They are sure to have the desired effect.

What?

You think what is said here has an iota of influence over what the Rolling Stones do?

be serious. And if they continue on tour, he is not joining up, he was/is a special guest.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Taylor was a bit unsure about where to solo, that's all. I thought it was a good performance, and Mick helped him a few times. Check out where Mick says "I'll take it", and then he starts his harp solo.

Nobody is giving Taylor the look or a cold shoulder. Keith is just focusing on laying down the rhythm, and that is a harder task when the other guitar player constantly is looking for spots to play solo licks.

All in all it was great seeing Taylor again, and this number, and hopefully others, will be even greater with time - if Taylor indeed joins in for the rest of the shows.

Quote
whitem8
Great post tele. Yup, MT shook it up. And MOVED! Shit he moved more than him and Bill Wyman combined in just this one show. Some beautiful guitar work. Yes, sloppy at times, overplayed, and a funky wrong key hit. But it was glorious. Brought out an edge that hasn't been heard in too long. I wish to hell they would do Plundered My Soul! WOuld sound great live. But I suspect, Keith views that as a Mick J solo song...and would balk at it.

Quote
terraplane

Actually the audio of the song sounds better than the video clip. There is a lot of noise bouncing around on the you tube clip so it sounds messier than it was. He certainly overplayed IMO (and I'm a big fan) but there were some nice moments for sure. They could edit some of his licks out and it would sound a lot better.

i just watched it again and then just listened to it again , all these quotes are right .

for decades people have been moaning about mick t not moving and just playing and now they're still not happy ! maybe he went a bit over the top and therefor dropped a few notes but certainly listening to just the audio it sounds like an ace bootleg . fantastic .

cant see any "looks " or bad blood or anything .... carry on , as you were.