maumau, you don't get what i mean by my problem with "film person behaviour" - which isn't surprising,
since i didn't explain it - i mentioned that only so you'd all know i've got a bit of a jaundiced eye
when it comes to cinema. but i'm not talking about editing.
and my dismay certainly has nothing to do with wanting it to be an "in-depth bio pic" -
where did that come from?! it's supposed to be a concert film.

and sure, retired-dog: plenty of people moan real regularly about the missing chunks from Gimme Shelter -
even though that's a documentary, not a concert film. this is supposed to be a concert film.
if the number wasn't "up to par" in some way, it would have been way less jarring to skip it entirely than to chop it up.

but i hope all the numbers - plus a bunch of rehearsals - make it to the dvd. that will rock.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 16:17 by with sssoul.

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paulywaul

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Bashlets
It seems like the only 2 biggest bitches about the film is the cutting of CONNECTION and too much MICK.

Pretty much sums it up I'd say, there's not THAT much to bitch about all in all.

uhm, sorry to say, but there is another thing to bitch about - and it grows to a huge annoying matter,
the more often one looks at the movie (well in my case anyway) - thats Jack White's appearance.
I will have to skip that one on the DVD.
it's a shame for Loving Cup and I do love the song, but this guy is just too much of a nuisance.

>> it's a shame for Loving Cup and I do love the song, but this guy is just too much of a nuisance. <<

+1 on all three counts.
and all the more reason to say hail hail Mr Buddy Guy
for bringing something smoking hot & meaningful to the proceedings!

The bootlegged recording of Connection I have clocks in at 2.47. No way the length of the song has been the reason for cutting it to pieces.
I am not sure where this one is recorded. I messed things up on my computer. I thought it was from Beacons, but it could be Oakland too.
Listening to it again I think what happens around 2:10 might be a reason for some serious editing. Does anybody remember if the song was played more convincingly in Beacons?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 16:05 by marcovandereijk.

Haven't seen SAL [of course] but Jack White was amazing when he played with Dylan. SAL was recorded close to a year before Dylan's Nashville concert, so maybe he improved.

It would be nice if the DVD were to have the option of playing the straight concert footage.
Won't happen though because the film was perceived and made as a conceptual piece of cinematic art...and to enable meddling with it's balance of content might be viewed as somewhat sacriligious in cinema circles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 15:57 by Spud.

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JumpingKentFlash
There's a reason for the Mick focus. Remember that Scorsese said that the movie would include a study of Mick's movements.

If he did, then its hardly worth labouring the point for two hours then.

Let's see the bloody band - and leave the studying to some bearded twat with a degree in some '-ology' or other...

Aint it worth seeing the film on release before eveyone has a pop?

I dont know that we're having a 'pop'..I would imagine that we'll all enjoy it very much. The in depth critiques were after all made by people who HAVE seen it.

Just seems a bit pointless to edit a song in that manner when it could have been left in undoctored - or, if it wasnt up to scratch, replaced with something else. It doesnt sound like its a decision which could be described as making things better, dont ya think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 15:57 by Gazza.

>> Aint it worth seeing the film on release ... ? <<

yep! most definitely :E

>> Listening to it again I think what happens around 2:10 might be a reason for some serious editing. <<

okay, i'll bite: what happens at 2:10?
in the immortal words of a sound engineer i work with sometimes: no coz, chlopak tak zagral. :E

Yeah, what is it that happens at 2:10?
I'm listening and uploading it right now - it would have been good to go, IMHo.

Gaz - As Michael Winner would say "Calm down darling!"

Your judging the content of a film from a review that another person saw? leave it till your own judgement on release.

It's quite possible that a songs been edited for viewing purposes. Shine a Light was made for the general public. It can appear that 'hardcore' stoner fans can appear to be foaming at the mouth waiting for an overdubbed Marracca or not enough of 'our keef'.......

>.. what happens at 2.10.

I am sorry for jumping conclusions, because I found out I might have been listening to the wrong bootleg. I have edited my post.
Now I am trying again to upload it somewhere so you can listen to it too.

I was at the 2nd Beacon show and although it was great to have Keith break out Connection, it certainly was not a steller performance. I know the hard core fans(like me) enjoy the Keith set, but everyone else using his set to take a piss or get another beer, I think Marty realizes this and that's why he cut the song. Just my thoughts, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the move to cut the song.

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retired_dog

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open-g
Well it's not like Marty made cuts in any of the other songs - but only in Connection.
Cutting just that one makes it jump out of the whole frame. I don't get it at all.
the movie would have lasted maybe 124 minutes instead of 122, hadn't he touched it.

I understand your point of view, but what do we know about the reasons Connection got cut? In case the performance was not up to par throughout, Marty would never publicly admit it. I recall some not all-too positive reviews about Keith performing Connection during the ABB tour, so it is possible that the Beacon performance was not top notch either; of course I am guessing here. On the other hand, I am more disappointed about the absence of I'm Free in particular and also Undercover in the movie.

I posted it on Hot Stuff
[www.iorr.org]
flac - 25 MB.

See what I've learned over the years: here's the version I was referring to. You send it

thanks both of you for the uploads, and sorry for being obtuse again:
i'm not flac-capable, so i'll try marcovandereijk's upload - but is it the Beacon performance,
or some other one, or you aren't sure?

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marcovandereijk
See what I've learned over the years: here's the version I was referring to. You send it

Aha, I see what you mean.
yes, the version you posted is completly @#$%& up.
the one I posted is good though, and I believe that's what was used in the movie.

I made a mess of my files on the hard disk I have here at my work. I got this on november 13 2006. Since they played Connection for the first time in Beacons on november 1, and from then on at Oakland on nov 6, Glendale on nov 8 and Vegas on nov 11, it could be from any of these shows.
I have to find out where I got it from to make sure from which of these four shows it could be.

Now I listened to the version that is claimed to be from Beacons and indeed, mine is from a different source. I hear no need for editing on the version that was posted earlier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 16:33 by marcovandereijk.

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Gazza

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JumpingKentFlash
There's a reason for the Mick focus. Remember that Scorsese said that the movie would include a study of Mick's movements.

If he did, then its hardly worth labouring the point for two hours then.

Let's see the bloody band - and leave the studying to some bearded twat with a degree in some '-ology' or other...

I think it's OK to make a movie this way. Have to choose my words carefully since I haven't seen the film yet. If you think about it, many pro shot videos have a large percentage of Mick in it (Like L.A. Forum '75). So in that respect it's made as a classic Stones movie. And remember that Martin Scorsese isn't some bearded twat, but rather a filmmaker who wants to get a point across in his films. If anyone should make a study of Mick Jagger's movements (Which is a great perspective for a Stones film) wouldn't you prefer it to be Scorsese rather than a frickin' yoga instructor? I certainly would! I was actually hoping for a Stones concert film with some perspective, rather than the usual we-need-to-show-everybody-an-equal-amount-of-time (Case in point: The Voodoo Lounge concert DVD, the Bridges To Babylon concert DVD, Four Flicks and The Biggest Bang - Not that these flicks are bad at all, but one could wish for some sort of artistic stand point, rather than the usual focusing on the entire band and the event that is a Rolling Stones concert).
I also think that the Connection cuts are OK. It's not like Scorsese sat around and butchered it on purpose to get some fans pissed off. I have faith in Scorsese having a point in doing this. He is, after all, the greatest director of all time. Maybe we have to be careful to be too fanboy-ish when watching this. I don't think it's made with Stones fans in mind in particular (Cue: Catwalk babes in the FOS area). I think Marty made this to please his own artistic vision, rather than pleasing fans. And that's the way it should be in my honest opinion. If I wanted to see a concert film, which artistic goal was to please fans, I'd go see the Austin concert from The Biggest Bang or the Olympia concert from Four Flicks. This probably isn't the same and that's the main reason I can't wait to see it.
Also we could very well get Connection on the soundtrack right? So it would be there instead of in the film, but we'll have it nonetheless. No worries.

JumpingKentFlash

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with sssoul
i'm not flac-capable,

I converted it to mp3 for your pleasure: Yousendit

there, I converted the flac into mp3
[www.gigasize.com]


First you carefully go tiptoe through the tulips with saying

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Have to choose my words carefully since I haven't seen the film yet

but then...

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I also think that the Connection cuts are OK

I'd like to hear you on that again after you've seen it, Kent.

Man, a woman can get the men working for her, can't she?

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open-g
there, I converted the flac into mp3
[www.gigasize.com]


First you carefully go tiptoe through the tulips with saying

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Have to choose my words carefully since I haven't seen the film yet

but then...

Quote
I also think that the Connection cuts are OK

I'd like to hear you on that again after you've seen it, Kent.

Well, as I said: I haven't seen it, but that post was based on what I've read. I haven't seen the cuts in Connection, but I do keep in mind that a) The artistic goal in this film, to me, seems more important than having complete songs, and b) Connection is certainly not their best song by a long shot.
Scorsese could have made a film with no complete songs whatsoever if he wanted to. Who's to say that that couldn't have worked just as fine as your regular filmed Stones concert?

JumpingKentFlash

>> He is, after all, the greatest director of all time.
Maybe we have to be careful to be too fanboy-ish when watching this. <<

smile: yeah right, that sounds real unfanboyish!
the reviews from the "cinema types" i've read seem to feel the film is mainly for Stones fans, so ... whatever!

as i've said: i have a jaundiced eye when it comes to cinema, and please note that even i keep saying
there are a lot of brilliant beautiful moments in the movie. no one's hissing & booing, just noting a few disappointing flaws.
anyway Paul's posts sound like he's got an unjaundiced appreciation for the cinematic aspects
along with his impeccably Stoned credentials, so ... go with his posts and don't mind me.

>> Who's to say that that couldn't have worked just as fine <<

... i am :E



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 19:06 by with sssoul.

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marcovandereijk

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with sssoul
i'm not flac-capable,

I converted it to mp3 for your pleasure: Yousendit

Ehem...this is NOT Beacon version.

This is from Oakland 6th November 2006 and listen to Keith's angelic voice on it ! Who cares if it's not perfect, it recovers at the end, it's rock'n'roll! Plus Keith's comment "what a bunch!" ha!

plus even if version from Beacon wasn't the stellar performance I can't really see anybody finding it attractive to cut, butcher it in this way and I'd rather have this off the movie than have it the way it's presented.

Oh and talking about Keith's set on it, did I already say how brilliant and moving You Got The Silver is?
I'm glad the world (at least some part of it) will be able to experience this amazing piece of art that it is.
And Ronnie's great on it too - Keith thanx him afterwards, that's of course sweet to see



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-12 17:11 by PiotrRSpl.

>> there, I converted the flac into mp3 <<

ahh thank you kindly, open-g honey! sounds good & rambunctious,
and sure enough, just like my sound engineer always says: that's how they played it

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PiotrRSpl
Ehem...this is NOT Beacon version.

This is from Oakland 6th November 2006 and listen to Keith's angelic voice on it ! Who cares if it's not perfect, it recovers at the end, it's rock'n'roll! Plus Keith's comment "what a bunch!" ha!

plus even if version from Beacon wasn't the stellar performance I can't really see anybody finding it attractive to cut, butcher it in this way and I'd rather have this off the movie than have it the way it's presented.

Oh and talking about Keith's set on it, did I already say how brilliant and moving You Got The Silver is?
I'm glad the world (at least some part of it) will be able to experience this amazing piece of art that it is.
And Ronnie's great on it too - Keith thanx him afterwards, that's of course sweet to see

Well, I don't care if a song is not played to perfection. I'd listen to boring bands like Supertramp if I did. But I try to figure out what reason Scorsese might have to butcher the song. So far I have not even seen the movie, so I am only responding to witnesses like you who tell me how bad the song is slaughtered. Makes me curious though, so I am putting efforts into finding out the reasons. That's why I went searching for the recording of the song. Now, do you claim Open-G's post is not from Beacons?

I meant the one you posted is from Oakland.