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treaclefingers

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24FPS

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Lynd8
I think they should scrap the whole deluxe issue stuff and just put out a 3-4 CD "Bootleg Series" style release of all the remaining outtakes - anyone with me on that? They typically "demaster" the original album anyway.

Not wild about Stones 'outtakes'. They're almost always far from as good as the final product. Bill always had his part down early, while the guitars fumbled around, looking for magic, and Mick keeps honing the lyrics. The Beatles would do different tempo, and completely different versions of songs. I'm Looking Through You is a totally different rhythm on the Anthology. While there's a whole different Tomorrow Never Knows on there.

I much prefer unreleased songs. Heard Plundered My Soul yesterday. Wonderful.

Probably tops amongst the 'new' finds in the deluxe packages since 2010. Stellar.

But Plundered was an unfinished outtake from c. '72 before it was rediscovered for the Exile reissue. Mick added new vocals along with some Mick Taylor guitar parts c. 2009, as well as new backing vocals from Lisa Fisher.
Never much liked that tune probably due to Micks new vocals, though it was intersting to hear in a freak show kind of way, and I did buy a couple of the 7" singles for the Record Store day release.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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treaclefingers

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24FPS

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Lynd8
I think they should scrap the whole deluxe issue stuff and just put out a 3-4 CD "Bootleg Series" style release of all the remaining outtakes - anyone with me on that? They typically "demaster" the original album anyway.

Not wild about Stones 'outtakes'. They're almost always far from as good as the final product. Bill always had his part down early, while the guitars fumbled around, looking for magic, and Mick keeps honing the lyrics. The Beatles would do different tempo, and completely different versions of songs. I'm Looking Through You is a totally different rhythm on the Anthology. While there's a whole different Tomorrow Never Knows on there.

I much prefer unreleased songs. Heard Plundered My Soul yesterday. Wonderful.

Probably tops amongst the 'new' finds in the deluxe packages since 2010. Stellar.

But Plundered was an unfinished outtake from c. '72 before it was rediscovered for the Exile reissue. Mick added new vocals along with some Mick Taylor guitar parts c. 2009, as well as new backing vocals from Lisa Fisher.
Never much liked that tune probably due to Micks new vocals, though it was intersting to hear in a freak show kind of way, and I did buy a couple of the 7" singles for the Record Store day release.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. We do know this...just saying it's an example of an unfinished outtake that I/we thought benefitted from the 'extra work' subsequently put into it, though I get that thought isn't universal.

Sounded like 24FPS thought it was a vintage unreleased complete track without any modern day tinkering by saying
"I much prefer unreleased songs. Heard Plundered My Soul yesterday. Wonderful", but maybe I misread/misunderstood.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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treaclefingers

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Hairball

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treaclefingers

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24FPS

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Lynd8
I think they should scrap the whole deluxe issue stuff and just put out a 3-4 CD "Bootleg Series" style release of all the remaining outtakes - anyone with me on that? They typically "demaster" the original album anyway.

Not wild about Stones 'outtakes'. They're almost always far from as good as the final product. Bill always had his part down early, while the guitars fumbled around, looking for magic, and Mick keeps honing the lyrics. The Beatles would do different tempo, and completely different versions of songs. I'm Looking Through You is a totally different rhythm on the Anthology. While there's a whole different Tomorrow Never Knows on there.

I much prefer unreleased songs. Heard Plundered My Soul yesterday. Wonderful.

Probably tops amongst the 'new' finds in the deluxe packages since 2010. Stellar.

But Plundered was an unfinished outtake from c. '72 before it was rediscovered for the Exile reissue. Mick added new vocals along with some Mick Taylor guitar parts c. 2009, as well as new backing vocals from Lisa Fisher.
Never much liked that tune probably due to Micks new vocals, though it was intersting to hear in a freak show kind of way, and I did buy a couple of the 7" singles for the Record Store day release.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. We do know this...just saying it's an example of an unfinished outtake that I/we thought benefitted from the 'extra work' subsequently put into it, though I get that thought isn't universal.

The weight of finishing 'unfinished outtakes' varies.

Great examples of unfinished outtakes are found on:

LET IT BLEED
STICKY FINGERS
EXILE ON MAIN STREET
GOATS HEAD SOUP
IT'S ONLY ROCK'N'ROLL
EMOTIONAL RESCUE
TATTOO YOU
UNDERCOVER

So now that there have been some finished way later it's a problem? Not sure that is any kind of logic to follow. TY completely consists of unfinished outtakes. Not one new recording, as a band, on TY. A chunk of EOMS wasn't finished.

We got as far as a double album, and some things you just chop off. We've done it I think with every album we've ever made. And a lot of those things get picked up again and they end up on the next album. I think a lot of the things on Goats Head Soup were ideas that came off Exile on Main Street. But these ones were just forgotten. It's really nice to have a big, um, can. Things that you'd forgotten about.
- Keith Richards, 2010

Keith and I listened to it. We picked things that we rather liked. And then I started doing research on my own and I found out that quite a lot of these pieces were really not from the Exile period at all. They were either earlier or later. Some of them much later... Exile was recorded over quite a long period. Some of it was recorded in Olympic Studios in England, some was recorded in France, and then there was stuff done in L.A. So I set myself a sort of time frame for it. The first recording was Loving Cup in 1969, and then the last sessions for Exile were done in 1972. So that was my time period.
- Mick Jagger, 2010

The tracks) weren't finished. None of them had vocals on, which is probably one of the reasons they never came out or whatever. We had so many tracks, but... I could've finished them, but I didn't. Either I didn' t have any ideas, or I couldn't be bothered or whatever - they're unwieldy in some way. They were very much like any other Rolling Stones song then or now, to be honest. You'd listen to them and you'd go, Okay, so that needs a vocal, and that's the chorus, this is that. Some were pretty much together, and some were less together. And you just treat them as if they were new, to be perfectly honest. It's always a bit odd to revisit things, but after you get used to them, it doesn't really matter if they were done last week or 35, 40 years ago.
- Mick Jagger, 2010

[timeisonourside.com]

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Hairball
Sounded like 24FPS thought it was a vintage unreleased complete track without any modern day tinkering by saying
"I much prefer unreleased songs. Heard Plundered My Soul yesterday. Wonderful", but maybe I misread/misunderstood.

OK thanks, that now makes sense as to what you were thinking.

Got the Super Deluxe and packaging is great, with a really cool book. Some old repeated quotes etc, but some of the new narrative is interesting

Just listened to the "Lost & Found" disc straight thro twice. Some fantastic songs on it.

Listening to the Wembley gig and although sound isn't the best, a great gig !!

FINALLY got to hear the 2021 remix. I'm assuming it's a new, 'improved' remix. It wasn't. I found the sound quite muddy and dull in places, compared to the Virgin CD. The bass was muffled on Start Me Up. Slave sounded better. After having not listened to it in a long time, I think it's a much better song than usually evaluated.

The biggest disappoint is No Use In Crying. On my vinyl TY in 1982, the last sang 'It's not me' is followed by a spoken 'It's Not Me'. I can't hear it on other CD versions, and I just barely heard it on the new version.

yeah the sound on the cd is terrible but the new vinyl is a much easier listen

if you get a chance to hear it on vinyl do it

also hope bv's ok with reviving this thread

i think it be ok since its sorta a album thread

It's not a remix. Only GHS is.

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a remix. Only GHS is.

Wow. So they didn't even bother. Do you know what it's from, because it doesn't sound all that great.

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24FPS
FINALLY got to hear the 2021 remix. I'm assuming it's a new, 'improved' remix. It wasn't. I found the sound quite muddy and dull in places, compared to the Virgin CD. The bass was muffled on Start Me Up. Slave sounded better. After having not listened to it in a long time, I think it's a much better song than usually evaluated.

The biggest disappoint is No Use In Crying. On my vinyl TY in 1982, the last sang 'It's not me' is followed by a spoken 'It's Not Me'. I can't hear it on other CD versions, and I just barely heard it on the new version.

My impression is that they mastered it with all the new digital amps and sound devices in mind. On my Sonos Amp system the new master sounds fantastic, with really loud and punchy bass and drums.

Mathijs

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24FPS

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a remix. Only GHS is.

Wow. So they didn't even bother. Do you know what it's from, because it doesn't sound all that great.

Here is a hint for you
[iorr.org]
New remaster (not remix) is overprocessed in digital domain. It is squashed and compressed over any reasonable level.

Here is amplitude/frequency chart

And differential amplitude/frequency chart with 2013 flat transfer used as a baseline

Essentially, it reflects what was added to flat transfer during remastering.
virgin CD (that is praised here) apart of compression and loudness (and shaved peaks mentioned elsewhere) also got a boost around 200Hz and jack up in high frequency range above 9-10kHz
New 2021 remaster, actually, stays pretty much flat with respect to 'flat transfer', however got a couple of dips (200-400 Hz, 2-8kHz). Most probably it was done to lower the annoying frequencies. Otherwise, the whole thing would damage your ears at spot due to excessive compression and extra loudness. I checked other tracks from 2021 remaster. Generally, the remaster follows the same scheme. It looks that all tracks (but Slave) originated from 2013 flat transfer (or the same tape was transferred anew in very similar conditions) but a lot of harm was done in digital domain (extra loudness and compression).


Here are snippets for blind listening test
[iorr.org]

In any case, Tattoo You is a messy record. It is compiled from leftovers made over a decade in different studious and in different conditions. It seems that every mastering engineer tried to improve the sound quality using own (specific and individual) approach. The results varied from bad to widely acclaimed. But in all re-incarnations, it is no audiophile experience. If you want to have the best possible representation of the original master tape unmolested by additional mastering (and a poster) head for SHM-CD prepared from flat transfer. Otherwise, be ready to invest €€€ in Toshiba-EMI ‘black triangle’ CD (w/o poster), which is the closet one to flat transfer. CBS and Virgin versions are also good and have merits on their own. These are much cheaper and easy to get. However, if long version of Track 03-Slave is crucial, the sole good sounding option is 1994 Virgin CD. But that one is far from audiophile standards too.

PS. To avoid confusion with 2011/2013 flat transfer
Here is the linage for Japanese SHM-CD
- Tape research: Mick McKenna
- DSD flat transferred from UK original master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London, in 2011
- Edited in DSD by Masaru Tkagi (SIProject) at Sunrise Studios, Tokyo, in 2011
- 176.4kHz/24bit transferred from DSD by Yumetoki Suzuki at Universal Music Studios, Tokyo, in 2013
- HR (High Resolution) cutting from 176.4kHz/24bit at Victor Creative Media, in 2013
- ? © 2013 Promotone B.V. under exclusive license to Universal International Music B.V.
So, technically, flat transfer to DSD was done in 2011 and appeared on Japanese SHM-SACD. That DSD flat transfer was converted (downsampled) to 44.1kHz/16bit CDDA format in 2013 and was used for Japanese SHM-platinum CD [UICY-40002] and SHM-CD [UICY- 75763] and in 2020 for SHM-CD [UICY-79247]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-14 15:25 by ironbelly.

i have both the virgin and cbs versions and personally prefer the cbs


also ironbelly thank you for your advice

i recently bought a west german made copy of aftermath on your recommendation at a local record store for a good price

i've really been enjoying it thanks

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ProfessorWolf
i have both the virgin and cbs versions and personally prefer the cbs


also ironbelly thank you for your advice

i recently bought a west german made copy of aftermath on your recommendation at a local record store for a good price

i've really been enjoying it thanks

You are welcome. Enjoy that one.

I tried to see if there was already a thread on this, but didn't find it.

Anyway.....last night I finally got to hear the bonus tracks for the 40th Anniversary Tattoo You set. It was definitely the weakest collection we've had so far. They must be scraping the bottom of the barrel. It doesn't portend well for future releases.

'Shame, Shame, Shame', 'Drift Away', and the original 'Start Me Up' are keepers, but the rest sounds like a mess. I guess that's to be expected, when the cuts were from all over the map, like Tattoo You itself was. But Tattoo You the album had a producer who shaped the songs into a cohesive sounding whole.

Having never heard Fiji Jim, I was really disappointed. And all but the three songs mentioned above had no impact. The other boxsets at least had one stand out cut, 'Plundered My Soul', 'So Young', 'Scarlett'. Maybe Mick is tired and bored with trying to upgrade tracks they never found that thrilling to begin with.

I'd take it over Cross-eyed Heart in a heartbeat, but I hear what you're saying.

I wasn't as down on it as you were, but for the love of god, no single? What they tried to pawn off for a single was easily the worst song on the set...that was too bad. I think if they had something along the lines of what you suggested, a PMS, Scarlett/Criss Cross, we'd look at the whole thing a bit differently.

BUt I also think we've reached the end of the road for releasing box 'deluxe' sets in this style. There just doesn't seem to be 'in the can' the material that would be worthy of showcasing.

Perhaps release what's left a la the Beatles Anthology series, so the keeners can get all that material...but really put the focus on that last album of new material.

I had thought there were 2 attempts at releasing a single from the TY Deluxe set, as both tracks were released digitally before the rest of the set became available - "Living In The Heart Of Love", and "Troubles-A-Comin'". However, not once did I hear either of these songs on the local radio station. At least we got to hear the latter tune live in concert for a short spell.....

One problem is that most of these
tracks have been floatin' around on
boots for years ...

Sure they've been dolled up but they dont
come as any massive surprise ta most Stones followers ...



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
One problem is that most of these
tracks have been floatin' around on
boots for years ...

Sure they've been dolled up but they dont
come as any massive surprise ta most Stones followers ...

Sure, but can one really blame the leaks on the Stones? "Shit, with a better tape archive security these tracks could have been a massive surprise, but unfortunately, I know this stuff already ...what a boring release!"

Thing is, at least for me, that one is so used to the unofficial versions that certain changes in the finished tracks can really put you off, like Mick freaking out on the word "insane" at app. 2.40 in the unofficial version of Fiji Jim, something's that's just not there in the "finished" official version...

Still, there are a couple of tracks in every bonus disc archive release that I consider valuable additions to the Stones catalog and last, but not least, my Stones collection. Instead of starring enviously at Dylan, Neil Young, Springsteen, Beatles and whoever massive archive releases I increasingly just take the Stones stuff for what it is and try not to think all to much about what it possibly could have been - otherwise it would drive me mad!

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sf37
I had thought there were 2 attempts at releasing a single from the TY Deluxe set, as both tracks were released digitally before the rest of the set became available - "Living In The Heart Of Love", and "Troubles-A-Comin'". However, not once did I hear either of these songs on the local radio station. At least we got to hear the latter tune live in concert for a short spell.....

Yes...my real point is there is no 'single' notwithstanding they released one.

No songs on that disc are worthy of actually being a single. They're album tracks, and some nice ones to boot. BUT, trying to pawn off those two songs as 'singles' is ridiculous.

The bonus disc was lackluster and ultimately a letdown - Drift Away ranks down there with their worst covers ever imo. I thought Tattoo You could have been amongst the best of the Deluxe releases, but I was wrong.
Nice they attempted to play Troubles-A-Comin live a couple times, but it was abruptly dropped prior to the L.A. shows - maybe even before that, and in hindsight maybe a smart move as it didn't really work.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-11 03:17 by Hairball.

my favorite of all the sets and to my ears the most cohesive

listen to it far more often then the other deluxe discs

well at least the vinyl

the cd yikes!

and as for scraping the bottom of the barrel

mick sure seemed to have left a lot of great outtakes from the some girls and emotional rescue sessions

jah is not dead, linda lu, munich hilton, misty roads, everlasting is my love, gangster's moll, what's the matter, dancing girls, los trios guitaros, up against the wall, guitar lesson, schoolboy blues, knee trembler, my last plea, what gives you the right, your angel steps out of heaven, not the way to go

and that's just off the top of my head

i can imagine that mick must be saving these for some purpose

maybe the much requested (here at least) deluxe emotional rescue or a box set with the other outtakes from the 80's

then if they can ever work a deal out with abcko i'm sure that many of those albums could get the deluxe treatment

at least beggars (though the idea of 80 year old mick adding vocal over dubs onto outtakes from 1968 gives me a bit of pause)

Somebody made a comment about the best choice for a "single" from the TTY bonus disc. OMG. Last time I looked it wasn't 1975. Releasing a single is a long dead concept. As is radio.

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Spodlumt
Somebody made a comment about the best choice for a "single" from the TTY bonus disc. OMG. Last time I looked it wasn't 1975. Releasing a single is a long dead concept. As is radio.

that being said i would say the reggae version of start me up with chantilly lace as a b side

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Hairball
Drift Away ranks down there with their worst covers ever imo.

I remember thinking that at least it sounded complete. It didn't have the old Stones cover magic, but it wasn't bad. Of course it doesn't sound like the Stones. It sounds more like a Mick Jagger solo cut.

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Spodlumt
Somebody made a comment about the best choice for a "single" from the TTY bonus disc. OMG. Last time I looked it wasn't 1975. Releasing a single is a long dead concept. As is radio.

What are you talking about? Singles, with videos, are released ALL THE TIME! Radio may be dead, but have you heard of Spotify? YouTube?

The concept of an 'album' may be being rendered obsolete but individual tracks are the mainstay of new music.

I think 'the last time you looked', it actually was 1975.

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24FPS
I tried to see if there was already a thread on this, but didn't find it.

Here you go, 57 pages: [iorr.org]

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Koen

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24FPS
I tried to see if there was already a thread on this, but didn't find it.

Here you go, 57 pages: [iorr.org]

I typed in Tattoo You under search, that thread did not come up. I'm not sure what magic words you have to type in.

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24FPS

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Koen

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24FPS
I tried to see if there was already a thread on this, but didn't find it.

Here you go, 57 pages: [iorr.org]

I typed in Tattoo You under search, that thread did not come up. I'm not sure what magic words you have to type in.

LOL good one. You just need to expand the search beyond 30 days.

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24FPS

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Hairball
Drift Away ranks down there with their worst covers ever imo.

I remember thinking that at least it sounded complete. It didn't have the old Stones cover magic, but it wasn't bad. Of course it doesn't sound like the Stones. It sounds more like a Mick Jagger solo cut.

I always liked the song, had it for years on bootleg. I probably would have liked to have seen this on It's Only R'n'R than Ain't Too Proud To Beg.