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Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: October 30, 2021 02:13

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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: October 30, 2021 03:10

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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 07:16 by LeonidP.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: coffeepotman ()
Date: October 30, 2021 03:58

I happen to love this release and hope they do more "updates" on the outtakes. I love them, even more than a new Stones album, which will probably not happen.

I've added some of the SG outtakes to TY and they work seamlessly, along with some extra live 1981-82 songs and I have a spectacular album.

I love it.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: October 30, 2021 11:35

Very good idea about adding Some Girls out-takes to Tattoo You. Should be the dynamic levels are the same. I'll give it a try. Cheers!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: IrelandCalling4 ()
Date: October 30, 2021 19:29

Quote
coffeepotman
I happen to love this release and hope they do more "updates" on the outtakes. I love them, even more than a new Stones album, which will probably not happen.

I've added some of the SG outtakes to TY and they work seamlessly, along with some extra live 1981-82 songs and I have a spectacular album.

I love it.

Same, love it. The updated outtakes work brilliantly. It's a Lie was always a favourite, hearing new lyrics/vocals on it was jarring initially. However, it is a damn fine track and sounds as it should on the new reissue.

I added the three GHS tracks to the 9 TY bonus tracks (incl reggae SMU) for a cracking, quality album of it's own.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: jackflash27 ()
Date: October 31, 2021 19:54

Listened to the outtakes vinyl now a few times and have to conclude this is a great disc! All very nice tracks which could have be a superb album of its own. I had the same feeling with the Some girls outtakes, which I rate a little bit higher than this one. But this one is also exceeding expectations. Great stuff!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 1, 2021 07:22

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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.

If there was a 'clearing throat' emoji here I'd make it as big as possible.

It's NOT a mystery for me.

It's a mystery for YOU in a way that apparently you can not comprehend. You're hung up on a thing that has nothing to do with the music - the songs, the album - as an album.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: November 1, 2021 11:24

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ironbelly
Ok, let’s do it old fashion way. Anyway, this is Friday.

Blind listening test for different CDs Tattoo You, song is Start Me Up.
I dig six CDs

1. Toshiba-EMI CP35-3032, Japanese only CD from 1983. Matrix: CP35-3032 11. Hub imprint: [CSR COMPACT DISC CSR COMPACT DISC CSR COMPACT DISC].
2. CDCBS 450 198 2, Japan for Europe from 1986. Matrix: DIDP-10580 11A1 +++++
3. Virgin Collectors edition 7243-8-39502-2-5, 1994. Matrix: 39502 01# 03-11-94 SP 1-1-13 EMI JAX
4. UM remaster 2009 2701569. Matrix: 33777-2 2701569/00 INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA (This is cheap Argentinian pressing but digitally it is a clone to any other 2009 re-issue)
5. Japan only ‘flat transfer from original master tapes’, HR cutting 2013, SHM-platinum CD UICY-40002. Matrix: UICY-40002-2 H1T [4xUniversal logo]
6. 2021 remaster from 2CD deluxe edition, 383 494-1. Matrix: [Universal logo] 00602438349425 A0103329982-0101 26 A00

Tracks were ripped by EAC from original CDs in secure mode, no normalization. Rips were converted to FLAC and 1 min samples were prepared.

Afterwards I took a dice and shuffle the samples around, so the number of the sample does not correspond to the number from the list above.

SMU01
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU02
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU03
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU04
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU05
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU06
[www.dropbox.com]


Now you decide which sample sounds the best. Like SMU01 sounds great, SMU02 sounds awful, SMU03 needs more bass etc.

Do not hesitate to express yourself. Play it loud!

Last time I offered a similar test on a song from Sticky Fingers that has a name that should not be mentioned here no one participated. Please, do not tell that you are shy winking smiley. And no audio-analysis tool to be used winking smiley

I’ll post ‘sample number to mastering’ correlation next Monday.
Not too many users participated in blind listening test. But those who express themselves mentioned samples 1, 2 and 3 as the best sounding. Samples 2 and 3 got the majority votes (if one can call majority from a few) winking smiley.
And nobody likes samples 4 and 6.

Anyway,
SMU01. Virgin Collectors edition mastered by Bob Ludwig
SMU02. CP35-3032, Japanese only CD from 1983. Unknown linage, most probably, flat transfer from master tape thay had handy in Japan.
SMU03. Japan only ‘flat transfer from original master tapes’, HR cutting 2013, SHM-platinum CD UICY-40002.
SMU04. 2021 remaster from 2CD deluxe edition, Mastered my Stephen Marcussen.
SMU05. CDCBS 450 198 2, Japan for Europe from 1986. Mastered by Greg Calbi.
SMU06. UM remaster 2009. Mastered by Stephen Marcussen.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: November 1, 2021 13:01

Just listened to the outtakes disc. As usual with these Stones deluxe versions I'm sort of split between really enjoying them and being annoyed by various things that could have been done better.

For starters, this one feels more random than any Stones outtake disc (which says a lot!), with stuff from Some Girls, IORR, Goats and who knows what sessions. Yeah, I know Tattoo You was like that, but ...

Anyway, as some others here, I'm quite impressed with Jagger's vocal additions, even though I usually prefer the old recordings (I much prefer the original Fast Talking). Most guitar overdubs I think are a little superfluous as well.

Agree with Mathijs that the reggae Start Me Up is quite forced and easily the worst tune here.

And after listening to this disc with headphones my ears are a bit fatigued indeed...

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: November 1, 2021 14:25

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LieB
And after listening to this disc with headphones my ears are a bit fatigued indeed...

On my Sonos amp and satellite system the new mastering sounds fabulous. I guess they mixed it with the new digital platforms in mind.

Mathijs

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 1, 2021 15:18

Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You enters at #7 in the UK ALBUMS CHART.

[www.officialcharts.com]

Sales:
01 30,814 Elton John - The Lockdown Sessions [25,770 physical sales]
02 18,395 Lana Del Rey - Blue Banisters
03 18,381 Duran Duran - FUTURE PAST
04 16,156 Biffy Clyro - The Myth of the Happily Ever After
05 13,667 Coldplay - Music of the Spheres
06 6,962 Adele - 25
07 6,201 The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You
08 5,605 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
09 5,587 Mimi Webb - Seven Shades of Heartbreak
10 5,318 Drake - Certified Lover Boy

11 5,292 Self Esteem - Prioritise Pleasure
20 3,543 Queen - Greatest Hits
21 3,526 Dream Theater - A View from the Top of the World
27 2,915 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - B-Sides & Rarities: Pt II

42 2,266 Parquet Courts - Sympathy for Life
47 2,135 Sonny Fodera - Wide Awake
68 1,685 Cradle of Filth - Existence Is Futile
73 1,602 Every Time I Die - Radical

I guess that must be pretty disappointing for the band and their record company. If I recall right, GOATS HEAD SOUP sold about twice as many copies at its first week. Also as I quickly checked, its streaming numbers have been pretty awful on Spotify. This might have its consequences on their will to release more deluxe albums. A bright side is that probably this might add more pressure to release a new album...

- Doxa

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: November 1, 2021 17:14

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Doxa
Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You enters at #7 in the UK ALBUMS CHART.

[www.officialcharts.com]

Sales:
01 30,814 Elton John - The Lockdown Sessions [25,770 physical sales]
02 18,395 Lana Del Rey - Blue Banisters
03 18,381 Duran Duran - FUTURE PAST
04 16,156 Biffy Clyro - The Myth of the Happily Ever After
05 13,667 Coldplay - Music of the Spheres
06 6,962 Adele - 25
07 6,201 The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You
08 5,605 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
09 5,587 Mimi Webb - Seven Shades of Heartbreak
10 5,318 Drake - Certified Lover Boy

11 5,292 Self Esteem - Prioritise Pleasure
20 3,543 Queen - Greatest Hits
21 3,526 Dream Theater - A View from the Top of the World
27 2,915 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - B-Sides & Rarities: Pt II

42 2,266 Parquet Courts - Sympathy for Life
47 2,135 Sonny Fodera - Wide Awake
68 1,685 Cradle of Filth - Existence Is Futile
73 1,602 Every Time I Die - Radical

I guess that must be pretty disappointing for the band and their record company. If I recall right, GOATS HEAD SOUP sold about twice as many copies at its first week. Also as I quickly checked, its streaming numbers have been pretty awful on Spotify. This might have its consequences on their will to release more deluxe albums. A bright side is that probably this might add more pressure to release a new album...

- Doxa


With sales like that one has to wonder if even the initial costs for such a release could be recouped...

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: November 1, 2021 17:18

Xmas might still change the sales figures a little.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: mike567 ()
Date: November 1, 2021 17:51

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
Doxa
Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You enters at #7 in the UK ALBUMS CHART.

[www.officialcharts.com]

Sales:
01 30,814 Elton John - The Lockdown Sessions [25,770 physical sales]
02 18,395 Lana Del Rey - Blue Banisters
03 18,381 Duran Duran - FUTURE PAST
04 16,156 Biffy Clyro - The Myth of the Happily Ever After
05 13,667 Coldplay - Music of the Spheres
06 6,962 Adele - 25
07 6,201 The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You
08 5,605 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
09 5,587 Mimi Webb - Seven Shades of Heartbreak
10 5,318 Drake - Certified Lover Boy

11 5,292 Self Esteem - Prioritise Pleasure
20 3,543 Queen - Greatest Hits
21 3,526 Dream Theater - A View from the Top of the World
27 2,915 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - B-Sides & Rarities: Pt II

42 2,266 Parquet Courts - Sympathy for Life
47 2,135 Sonny Fodera - Wide Awake
68 1,685 Cradle of Filth - Existence Is Futile
73 1,602 Every Time I Die - Radical

I guess that must be pretty disappointing for the band and their record company. If I recall right, GOATS HEAD SOUP sold about twice as many copies at its first week. Also as I quickly checked, its streaming numbers have been pretty awful on Spotify. This might have its consequences on their will to release more deluxe albums. A bright side is that probably this might add more pressure to release a new album...

- Doxa


With sales like that one has to wonder if even the initial costs for such a release could be recouped...

Maybe it's just my impression, but I think there was a lot more pr for GHS last year. The fuss about Page on Scarlet, the different remixes by other famous artist (war on drugs, killers), the video with Paul mescal, radio and zoom interviews with Mick...

Now, even in the interviews with Mick and Keith the TY reissue is only one aspect next to others.

It seems as promoting GHS was the only thing Mick was able to do last year, while this year he is busy out on the road.
Apart from that, I'm also wondering if Charlie's death plays a role in less pr for TY deluxe treatment

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: November 1, 2021 17:57

It won't change nothing, on this era the market is 80% streaming, if you are a legacy act and if want to sell physical product you need:

- Heavy promotion on TV/Radio, interviews, videos, every day during 2 weeks at least.
- Bundles with signed albums, 20 variations of the same album, all kind of tricks to sell the same album 10 times to diehards.
- Heavy sale discounts, about 30-40% of each version at least

Tattoo You had nothing at all, so the sales are what they are, as simple like that.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 1, 2021 17:58

Quote
Mathijs

On my Sonos amp and satellite system the new mastering sounds fabulous. I guess they mixed it with the new digital platforms in mind.

Mathijs

"Listening to me On your satellite"... grinning smiley
"Way ahead of time" indeed...

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: November 1, 2021 18:14

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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.

If there was a 'clearing throat' emoji here I'd make it as big as possible.

It's NOT a mystery for me.

It's a mystery for YOU in a way that apparently you can not comprehend. You're hung up on a thing that has nothing to do with the music - the songs, the album - as an album.

LOL, i am NOT the one hung up on it, I am the one saying its about the music ... not sure why that is a mystery to you (well, i do know why but not appropriate to say)

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 1, 2021 21:20

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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.

If there was a 'clearing throat' emoji here I'd make it as big as possible.

It's NOT a mystery for me.

It's a mystery for YOU in a way that apparently you can not comprehend. You're hung up on a thing that has nothing to do with the music - the songs, the album - as an album.

LOL, i am NOT the one hung up on it, I am the one saying its about the music ... not sure why that is a mystery to you (well, i do know why but not appropriate to say)

You are hung up on it. You admitted it. Here it is:

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The hang up is your perception of people seeing the mastering when that's all it's about, how the music has been treated, and ruined. The very reason why people are showing the difference in masters is the visible explanation as to why it sounds horrific.

If you were to listen to the UMe remasters the way you started out listening to the Stones you'd think that music is supposed to sound undynamic and obscenely loud.

Even though you stated people are judging the music because of viewing wave files, they are not judging the music, they are judging, appropriately, the... what's his nickname? Whatever it is, Marcussen's slaughtering of the music.

Bob Ludwig's Virgin remasters were the truest possible of the original masters for the digital era - at a time when it was still quite relatively new. And his first round of work didn't cut it. He and Mick figured it out to get them to sound as true as possible to the vinyl originals. Ludwig understood the space.

Stephen Marcussen's remasters are completely pointless. He's simply crammed the songs into a box that's too small for the sound and made it louder.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: November 1, 2021 21:29

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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.

If there was a 'clearing throat' emoji here I'd make it as big as possible.

It's NOT a mystery for me.

It's a mystery for YOU in a way that apparently you can not comprehend. You're hung up on a thing that has nothing to do with the music - the songs, the album - as an album.

LOL, i am NOT the one hung up on it, I am the one saying its about the music ... not sure why that is a mystery to you (well, i do know why but not appropriate to say)

You are hung up on it. You admitted it. Here it is:

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The hang up is your perception of people seeing the mastering when that's all it's about, how the music has been treated, and ruined. The very reason why people are showing the difference in masters is the visible explanation as to why it sounds horrific.

If you were to listen to the UMe remasters the way you started out listening to the Stones you'd think that music is supposed to sound undynamic and obscenely loud.

Even though you stated people are judging the music because of viewing wave files, they are not judging the music, they are judging, appropriately, the... what's his nickname? Whatever it is, Marcussen's slaughtering of the music.

Bob Ludwig's Virgin remasters were the truest possible of the original masters for the digital era - at a time when it was still quite relatively new. And his first round of work didn't cut it. He and Mick figured it out to get them to sound as true as possible to the vinyl originals. Ludwig understood the space.

Stephen Marcussen's remasters are completely pointless. He's simply crammed the songs into a box that's too small for the sound and made it louder.

Ummm... that's me NOT being hung up by it all, i know its hard for you to follow. You can spend hours that you do researching, criticizing, lookig up info, using audio wave tools, etc. or just LISTEN. Get it? ... probably not, you're too hung up on it.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 1, 2021 22:12

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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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GasLightStreet
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LeonidP
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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.

If there was a 'clearing throat' emoji here I'd make it as big as possible.

It's NOT a mystery for me.

It's a mystery for YOU in a way that apparently you can not comprehend. You're hung up on a thing that has nothing to do with the music - the songs, the album - as an album.

LOL, i am NOT the one hung up on it, I am the one saying its about the music ... not sure why that is a mystery to you (well, i do know why but not appropriate to say)

You are hung up on it. You admitted it. Here it is:

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The hang up is your perception of people seeing the mastering when that's all it's about, how the music has been treated, and ruined. The very reason why people are showing the difference in masters is the visible explanation as to why it sounds horrific.

If you were to listen to the UMe remasters the way you started out listening to the Stones you'd think that music is supposed to sound undynamic and obscenely loud.

Even though you stated people are judging the music because of viewing wave files, they are not judging the music, they are judging, appropriately, the... what's his nickname? Whatever it is, Marcussen's slaughtering of the music.

Bob Ludwig's Virgin remasters were the truest possible of the original masters for the digital era - at a time when it was still quite relatively new. And his first round of work didn't cut it. He and Mick figured it out to get them to sound as true as possible to the vinyl originals. Ludwig understood the space.

Stephen Marcussen's remasters are completely pointless. He's simply crammed the songs into a box that's too small for the sound and made it louder.

Ummm... that's me NOT being hung up by it all, i know its hard for you to follow. You can spend hours that you do researching, criticizing, lookig up info, using audio wave tools, etc. or just LISTEN. Get it? ... probably not, you're too hung up on it.

Your strawman stance is ridiculous. And extremely ignorant. Your denial is blatantly boring, too. The fact that you choose to be ignorant is your problem. The cognitive distortion is right in line though with just saying whatever and thinking it's factual.

Here are YOUR WORDS, which you just refuted. Again.

How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music

So, go ahead, continue to deny you're saying that while just making up random fake/alternative facts and continue to willingly choose to not understand that no one is doing exactly that.

Remind me to make popcorn if you're going to continue with your fake argumentation that no one is listening to the music.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: November 1, 2021 23:10

Quote
GasLightStreet

Your strawman stance is ridiculous. And extremely ignorant. Your denial is blatantly boring, too. The fact that you choose to be ignorant is your problem. The cognitive distortion is right in line though with just saying whatever and thinking it's factual.

Here are YOUR WORDS, which you just refuted. Again.

How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music

So, go ahead, continue to deny you're saying that while just making up random fake/alternative facts and continue to willingly choose to not understand that no one is doing exactly that.

Remind me to make popcorn if you're going to continue with your fake argumentation that no one is listening to the music.

YES, because I am NOT hung up w/ it! If too difficult to follow, I can try and draw you some pictures.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: erad ()
Date: November 1, 2021 23:46

Quote
mike567
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
Doxa
Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You enters at #7 in the UK ALBUMS CHART.

[www.officialcharts.com]

Sales:
01 30,814 Elton John - The Lockdown Sessions [25,770 physical sales]
02 18,395 Lana Del Rey - Blue Banisters
03 18,381 Duran Duran - FUTURE PAST
04 16,156 Biffy Clyro - The Myth of the Happily Ever After
05 13,667 Coldplay - Music of the Spheres
06 6,962 Adele - 25
07 6,201 The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You
08 5,605 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
09 5,587 Mimi Webb - Seven Shades of Heartbreak
10 5,318 Drake - Certified Lover Boy

11 5,292 Self Esteem - Prioritise Pleasure
20 3,543 Queen - Greatest Hits
21 3,526 Dream Theater - A View from the Top of the World
27 2,915 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - B-Sides & Rarities: Pt II

42 2,266 Parquet Courts - Sympathy for Life
47 2,135 Sonny Fodera - Wide Awake
68 1,685 Cradle of Filth - Existence Is Futile
73 1,602 Every Time I Die - Radical

I guess that must be pretty disappointing for the band and their record company. If I recall right, GOATS HEAD SOUP sold about twice as many copies at its first week. Also as I quickly checked, its streaming numbers have been pretty awful on Spotify. This might have its consequences on their will to release more deluxe albums. A bright side is that probably this might add more pressure to release a new album...

- Doxa


With sales like that one has to wonder if even the initial costs for such a release could be recouped...

Maybe it's just my impression, but I think there was a lot more pr for GHS last year. The fuss about Page on Scarlet, the different remixes by other famous artist (war on drugs, killers), the video with Paul mescal, radio and zoom interviews with Mick...

Now, even in the interviews with Mick and Keith the TY reissue is only one aspect next to others.

It seems as promoting GHS was the only thing Mick was able to do last year, while this year he is busy out on the road.
Apart from that, I'm also wondering if Charlie's death plays a role in less pr for TY deluxe treatment

The TY Deluxe also seems to be more expensive than GHS is/was. At least down here in NZ. This surely plays into it. Personally if I buy this deluxe at all I will be waiting for it to come down in price. $75 NZD (on special) is simply too much for the original album and the LP of extras that, let's face it, I will not listen to all that often.

I waited for the GHS deluxe vinyl to come down in price, mainly because I wanted Brussels on LP, and my GHS 70s copy that I bought sometime ago used was in pretty bad shape. My patience paid off and I was able to get it for $140 NZD. I have a feeling the same will happen with this release.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 2, 2021 00:01

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet

Your strawman stance is ridiculous. And extremely ignorant. Your denial is blatantly boring, too. The fact that you choose to be ignorant is your problem. The cognitive distortion is right in line though with just saying whatever and thinking it's factual.

Here are YOUR WORDS, which you just refuted. Again.

How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music

So, go ahead, continue to deny you're saying that while just making up random fake/alternative facts and continue to willingly choose to not understand that no one is doing exactly that.

Remind me to make popcorn if you're going to continue with your fake argumentation that no one is listening to the music.

YES, because I am NOT hung up w/ it! If too difficult to follow, I can try and draw you some pictures.

Nevermind. Continue to live in fantasy land.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 2, 2021 00:21

Quote
erad
Quote
mike567
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
Doxa
Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You enters at #7 in the UK ALBUMS CHART.

[www.officialcharts.com]

Sales:
01 30,814 Elton John - The Lockdown Sessions [25,770 physical sales]
02 18,395 Lana Del Rey - Blue Banisters
03 18,381 Duran Duran - FUTURE PAST
04 16,156 Biffy Clyro - The Myth of the Happily Ever After
05 13,667 Coldplay - Music of the Spheres
06 6,962 Adele - 25
07 6,201 The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You
08 5,605 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR
09 5,587 Mimi Webb - Seven Shades of Heartbreak
10 5,318 Drake - Certified Lover Boy

11 5,292 Self Esteem - Prioritise Pleasure
20 3,543 Queen - Greatest Hits
21 3,526 Dream Theater - A View from the Top of the World
27 2,915 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - B-Sides & Rarities: Pt II

42 2,266 Parquet Courts - Sympathy for Life
47 2,135 Sonny Fodera - Wide Awake
68 1,685 Cradle of Filth - Existence Is Futile
73 1,602 Every Time I Die - Radical

I guess that must be pretty disappointing for the band and their record company. If I recall right, GOATS HEAD SOUP sold about twice as many copies at its first week. Also as I quickly checked, its streaming numbers have been pretty awful on Spotify. This might have its consequences on their will to release more deluxe albums. A bright side is that probably this might add more pressure to release a new album...

- Doxa


With sales like that one has to wonder if even the initial costs for such a release could be recouped...

Maybe it's just my impression, but I think there was a lot more pr for GHS last year. The fuss about Page on Scarlet, the different remixes by other famous artist (war on drugs, killers), the video with Paul mescal, radio and zoom interviews with Mick...

Now, even in the interviews with Mick and Keith the TY reissue is only one aspect next to others.

It seems as promoting GHS was the only thing Mick was able to do last year, while this year he is busy out on the road.
Apart from that, I'm also wondering if Charlie's death plays a role in less pr for TY deluxe treatment

The TY Deluxe also seems to be more expensive than GHS is/was. At least down here in NZ. This surely plays into it. Personally if I buy this deluxe at all I will be waiting for it to come down in price. $75 NZD (on special) is simply too much for the original album and the LP of extras that, let's face it, I will not listen to all that often.

I waited for the GHS deluxe vinyl to come down in price, mainly because I wanted Brussels on LP, and my GHS 70s copy that I bought sometime ago used was in pretty bad shape. My patience paid off and I was able to get it for $140 NZD. I have a feeling the same will happen with this release.

totally agree. I've waited up to 2 years on some of these and always been well rewarded with prices sometimes 50% or more below face value. I picked up the two Keith boxsets for around $40 each US. Got GHS and LIB for around $65 each.

If I REALLY want the new music that bad I could always just get the regular CD deluxe (which I do as a matter of fact).

If you have patience with these things there's usually a reward. Remember, they limit these things to the number of people that will buy them.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: rebelhipi ()
Date: November 2, 2021 02:59

Quote
ironbelly
Quote
ironbelly
Ok, let’s do it old fashion way. Anyway, this is Friday.

Blind listening test for different CDs Tattoo You, song is Start Me Up.
I dig six CDs

1. Toshiba-EMI CP35-3032, Japanese only CD from 1983. Matrix: CP35-3032 11. Hub imprint: [CSR COMPACT DISC CSR COMPACT DISC CSR COMPACT DISC].
2. CDCBS 450 198 2, Japan for Europe from 1986. Matrix: DIDP-10580 11A1 +++++
3. Virgin Collectors edition 7243-8-39502-2-5, 1994. Matrix: 39502 01# 03-11-94 SP 1-1-13 EMI JAX
4. UM remaster 2009 2701569. Matrix: 33777-2 2701569/00 INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA (This is cheap Argentinian pressing but digitally it is a clone to any other 2009 re-issue)
5. Japan only ‘flat transfer from original master tapes’, HR cutting 2013, SHM-platinum CD UICY-40002. Matrix: UICY-40002-2 H1T [4xUniversal logo]
6. 2021 remaster from 2CD deluxe edition, 383 494-1. Matrix: [Universal logo] 00602438349425 A0103329982-0101 26 A00

Tracks were ripped by EAC from original CDs in secure mode, no normalization. Rips were converted to FLAC and 1 min samples were prepared.

Afterwards I took a dice and shuffle the samples around, so the number of the sample does not correspond to the number from the list above.

SMU01
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU02
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU03
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU04
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU05
[www.dropbox.com]

SMU06
[www.dropbox.com]


Now you decide which sample sounds the best. Like SMU01 sounds great, SMU02 sounds awful, SMU03 needs more bass etc.

Do not hesitate to express yourself. Play it loud!

Last time I offered a similar test on a song from Sticky Fingers that has a name that should not be mentioned here no one participated. Please, do not tell that you are shy winking smiley. And no audio-analysis tool to be used winking smiley

I’ll post ‘sample number to mastering’ correlation next Monday.
Not too many users participated in blind listening test. But those who express themselves mentioned samples 1, 2 and 3 as the best sounding. Samples 2 and 3 got the majority votes (if one can call majority from a few) winking smiley.
And nobody likes samples 4 and 6.

Anyway,
SMU01. Virgin Collectors edition mastered by Bob Ludwig
SMU02. CP35-3032, Japanese only CD from 1983. Unknown linage, most probably, flat transfer from master tape thay had handy in Japan.
SMU03. Japan only ‘flat transfer from original master tapes’, HR cutting 2013, SHM-platinum CD UICY-40002.
SMU04. 2021 remaster from 2CD deluxe edition, Mastered my Stephen Marcussen.
SMU05. CDCBS 450 198 2, Japan for Europe from 1986. Mastered by Greg Calbi.
SMU06. UM remaster 2009. Mastered by Stephen Marcussen.
Thanks for making the comparison test!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 2, 2021 03:27

Quote
micha063
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.

This is starting to creep in with some people and it makes zero sense:

TATTOO YOU 2021 is not a new mix. It's not a remix. It's not a different mix.

That one accolade belongs to GOATS HEAD SOUP 2020.

Remix and remaster are just as different as a turtle and a cotton rug.

So, it's about the remastering and there is of course a difference, which you like or not.
And for sure it is not about creeping.

The 'creeping' part is relevant - some people thinking it's a new mix because they don't understand what mastering is.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GerardHennessy ()
Date: November 2, 2021 12:05

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.


I'm definitely in the 'too old to care' category about the finer technical points of recordings. I too grew up listening to The Stones on very very poor audio equipment. On pirate radio stations (awful reception quality), on vinyl albums and singles that skipped and jumped erratically because of the beer and grease accidentally spilled on them, on cheap record players, cassette tape decks, and on reel-to-reel recorders I used to record directly from the radio. The audio quality was truly dreadful, but the magic shone through. And that is what The Stones have always meant to me. Energy, excitement, swagger, impertinence. In many respects much of that is leeched away when recording have been cleaned up, polished, digitally remastered, subjected to all kinds of technical 'improvements' and God knows what else.

However, having said all of this, I have no wish to disrespect or dismiss those good people on this forum who enjoy the very things I don't. Superb audio, top class technical specifications, and such. Absolutely right that they too can look for, and chat about, such things.

As for me, having listened to The Stones for over 50 years on badly damaged vinyl records I am convinced that the second line of Jumpin'Jack Flash does NOT say 'And I howled to my Ma in the drivin' rain' It REALLY says 'And I <jump> my Ma <jump> ,,,ing rain...' It still seems wrong somehow when, even in concert, Mick insists on inserting all those 'extra' words...

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 2, 2021 12:11

That's nothin' ...
I learnt Stones songs from a singing canary ...



ROCKMAN

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 2, 2021 15:43

Quote
GerardHennessy
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
LeonidP
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.

Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.

You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.

Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.

You seem a little ... blind. How many times are we getting screenshots from someone's wave analyzing tool? I've mentioned it many times - when i started listening to the Stones, I had a small single speaker record player, with crackles and pops, and enjoyed it to no end. 100% people can't get past the 'view' on the audio tools and use that to judge music, I see it with EVERY release. Open your eyes.

The music hasn't changed. No one is talking about the music. No one is judging the music.

Not sure why that's a mystery to you.

"No one is judging the music" ... Eggzactly! ... not sure why that's a mystery to you.


I'm definitely in the 'too old to care' category about the finer technical points of recordings. I too grew up listening to The Stones on very very poor audio equipment. On pirate radio stations (awful reception quality), on vinyl albums and singles that skipped and jumped erratically because of the beer and grease accidentally spilled on them, on cheap record players, cassette tape decks, and on reel-to-reel recorders I used to record directly from the radio. The audio quality was truly dreadful, but the magic shone through. And that is what The Stones have always meant to me. Energy, excitement, swagger, impertinence. In many respects much of that is leeched away when recording have been cleaned up, polished, digitally remastered, subjected to all kinds of technical 'improvements' and God knows what else.

However, having said all of this, I have no wish to disrespect or dismiss those good people on this forum who enjoy the very things I don't. Superb audio, top class technical specifications, and such. Absolutely right that they too can look for, and chat about, such things.

As for me, having listened to The Stones for over 50 years on badly damaged vinyl records I am convinced that the second line of Jumpin'Jack Flash does NOT say 'And I howled to my Ma in the drivin' rain' It REALLY says 'And I my Ma ,,,ing rain...' It still seems wrong somehow when, even in concert, Mick insists on inserting all those 'extra' words...

wow...now we know why jack flash was jumping...beer and grease!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: November 2, 2021 17:43

Quote
Rockman
That's nothin' ...
I learnt Stones songs from a singing canary ...
I knew somebody that had a parrot and a dog and the owner was always saying bad dog to the dog as he was getting into everything . Guess what ? the parrot picked up on this and was copying his owner always saying bad dog to the dog any time he seen the dog . The result being the dog having a complex and the owner now taking the parrot in his cage with him in the car when he ran errands and such . TRUE STORY . Stuff like this you just can't make up !

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