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Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: caoutchouc ()
Date: November 10, 2021 11:10

You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 10, 2021 12:28

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Hairball
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georgelicks
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jp.M
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mailexile67
@Georgelicks

What about TY in the charts?In UK is it fall down from #7 of first week?!

..it seems to me TY expanded is no more in the UK charts....!!...only one week in...!

Down 7-188 on second week in the UK with 800 units, 7,000 copies total.


Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You on the charts after 2 weeks:

Netherlands: 2-32
Germany: 3-25
Austria: 3-26
Scotland: 6-30
UK: 7-188 (6,200 + 800 - 7,000 total)
Swiss: 8-46
Belgium: 10-45
Spain: 15
USA: 24-out (19,000 + 4,000 - 23,000 total)
Japan: 39-out (2,365 + 400 - 2,800 total)
Australia: 39-out
New Zealand: 39-out
Italy: 44-out
Ireland: 62-out
Canada: 92-out

Over and out...

A shame as Tattoo You Deluxe could have had so much potential as far as sales and longevity, but with very little publicity/promotional effort, it's already soon to be forgotten.
Maybe next will be a live No Filter release...there have been a couple decent shows from this leg of the tour that could be worthy of release, or maybe they can do a compilation of live tunes from the last four years.
Probably a better chance of that happening than the supposed new album...or more likely a 60 and Counting compilation ala 40 Licks or Grrrr with Ghost Town and maybe another new tune added................

It's more likely a reflection, or realistic image, of how X amount of more people are streaming than buying than 10 years ago yet alone 5.

They could've done something similar to The Beatles in the 1990s with their extremely successful anthologies. But no.

The idea of a hard copy for music has basically left the planet. What few there are that are hard copy purchasers, regardless of format, are an absurd ton more fewer than it used to be. The Stones (UMe) are crossing the divide but losing on one end, hard copies, way more than the other - and streaming is barely cents, not dollars, per stream.

It's an outmoded ideal: the big record label paying whatever to the band/artist in return for... not much nowadays. Yet they continue to operate as if people still buy music.


To back up your points here are some cold numbers from last year ('Billboard's US Money Makers: The Top Paid Musicians of 2020') [www.billboard.com]:

-----
34. The Rolling Stones: $5.96M

Last year’s rank: No. 1
Streaming: $2.97M
Sales: $1.8M
Publishing: $1.17M
Touring: $0

The Stones, who were 2019’s top Money Maker with $65 million in take-home pay — 92% of it from touring — placed in the bottom 25% of this ranking without playing a single show in 2020 and releasing just two new tracks, “Living in a Ghost Town” and “Scarlet,” a Goats Head Soup-era recording with Jimmy Page on guitar. They made the cut because the band owns about half of its catalog — the rest belongs to the late Allen B. Klein’s label, ABKCO Music & Records — and collects 60% of its streaming royalties and 40% of the royalties it receives for physical sales. As a result, the 1.24 billion combined streams the act generated in 2020 and the 254,000 albums it sold — slightly more than half of which were higher price-point vinyl copies — accounted for the lion’s share of its income.

-----

Some interesting details there:
- the band actually - and already - gets more money from streaming than sales - almost twice as much!
- they sold 254 000 copies and over a half of it were vinyls! A big amount of them I guess were GOATS HEAD SOUP deluxe units. But 254 000 copies a year - honestly, that's not much.
- the deal they have to collect 60% of the streaming royalties is actually a damn good one.
- that $2.97M from streaming (1.24 billion streams) is actually surprisingly well if compared to the best streaming artists (the hot shots of the day). Drake is number one in that list with his $11.7M (almost 8 billion streams); Taylor Swift is #2 with her 3 billion less streams. I thought the gap would be much bigger, but the old and huge catalogue is a steady streamer I guess.
- just to think of it: just to play one damn concert they get almost the same amount of money than from whole year's income of recorded music. Plus they had a brandnew single and a rather high profile album out.
- remember: this is US market only - to get the worldwide numbers one needs to multiply that by a couple of numbers (3? 4?) I guess.

- Doxa



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-10 13:12 by Doxa.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: O2 ()
Date: November 10, 2021 14:15

Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 10, 2021 14:34

Just thinking the rationale behind all these deluxe editions moneywise. Looking at georgelick's numbers (based on UK and US sales), one might estimate that TATTOO YOU deluxe will sell about 100 000 copies worldwide (at most, I am afraid; the days when they started this vaults era, EXILE with its over million sold copies, are long gone). I don't know the sales of GOATS HEAD SOUP last year, but the numbers of the first two weeks sales suggest that is was selling about twice as much. We know that TATTOO YOU has lacked some serious promotion and marketing, unlike GOATS HEAD SOUP, but was that due to some cold calcution by the band and their record company? That if heavily marketing - by putting a lot of money in it with videos, time and energy, etc.- and the product will sell about 200 000 copies worldwide, that's not really worth the investment? That they know that just having a product out, with not much promotion, it will sell a certain amount thanks to the the hardcore fanbase. So the cost for exciting some 'extra buyers' by heavy marketing (interviews, videos, advertising, to make sure that the album is well presented in every record shop, etc.) starts to be too much? Sure Mick and Keith has something else to do these days, and last year they had nothing else but time, but does that explain everything?

But seemingly there is still some money in the deluxe business, since so many editions are popping up by all of these catalogue artists. I mean, just think of Keith's MAIN OFFENDER deluxe edition that is to be released soon. An album that initially was a sinker commercially (to sell about an half a million copies back in 1992 was a serious flop) and we are not exactly talking about any big profile classic album by any means (okay, some very hardcore Rolling Stones fans might disagree). How much it will realistically sell worldwide? 10 000 copies? But I guess it will do enough to justify it as a reasonable release. No Keith or anyone will get rich by it, but probably its production costs and some salaries in the record business will be covered. And as far as Keith is concerned, I guess for him the whole thing has purely an artistic value: he is proud of his old doings, and is glad someone is taking care of his legacy as a solo artist. A similar case as is with Dylan's BOOTLEG SERIES that is hailed by its artistic merits, not by its commercial value (the latter seemingly never associated with Bob's doings).

It is also funny to think that when we - the fans - are discussing probable upcoming deluxe editions of Stones albums - say, EMOTIONAL RESCUE, BLACK & BLUE, etc - we are a rather critical of the interest - a realistic concern that is justified if compared to the hailed historical masterpieces such as EXILE, STICKY FINGERS, etc - but that doesn't seem to be a concern with releases like MAIN OFFENDER. And with many, many others. And still we are talking about albums that have sold millions and despite not recognized as their most memorable products, they still are achievements and artistic statements in the career of one of the most important and biggest rock bands of all time. But with the Stones, the commercial value, not just historical or artistic one, seems always to be present... also we fans are learned to think in its terms...

- Doxa



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-10 15:12 by Doxa.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: caoutchouc ()
Date: November 10, 2021 15:54

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: caoutchouc ()
Date: November 10, 2021 15:55

Quote
O2
Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: MuddyJaggrich ()
Date: November 10, 2021 17:37

Some people have written that the quality of the live recording from London is poor. For me, the mix is the best of the 81/82 tour of what has been published so far.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Date: November 10, 2021 17:45

Quote
MuddyJaggrich
Some people have written that the quality of the live recording from London is poor. For me, the mix is the best of the 81/82 tour of what has been published so far.

The levels are nicely mixed. Perhaps a little light on drum and bass?

However, the tone of the instruments are not of the same quality as Leeds and Hampton, imo. A little harsh-sounding.

A great show that is nice to have, though thumbs up

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 10, 2021 18:09

Quote
caoutchouc
Quote
O2
Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!

My decision to keep them sealed was a "sound" one (pun intended) by the "sounds" of it.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: O2 ()
Date: November 10, 2021 18:25

Quote
caoutchouc
Quote
O2
Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!

Awful? But I was wondering about Miles Showell's remastering of the Studio albums collection LPS, I've only been able to listen to Tattoo You and as I said before it's great

Thank you

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: marquess ()
Date: November 10, 2021 19:05

Quote
caoutchouc
Quote
O2
Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!


Hello Caouthchouc,

by "other LP´s", you are reffering to the other albums remastered by Miles Showeel, or the other LP´s present in the "Tattoo You Deluxe Reissue"?

Regards.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: November 10, 2021 19:28

Quote
Doxa
Just thinking the rationale behind all these deluxe editions moneywise.
- Doxa

Lots of good thoughts as always. The only thing I would add for consideration is that the Stones are as much Universal's partner as they are an artist since they own their copyrights. Both parties have vested interest in how these things fare.

If GOATS HEAD SOUP sold say 60K worldwide, but the forecast was 100K (for the sake of argument) based on EXILE or STICKY FINGERS DELUXE, then it doesn't make financial sense to Universal or The Stones to spend the same budget on marketing, videos, etc. on TATTOO YOU if it is understood it will still fall short. You adjust for disappointments in the marketplace.

The Deluxe Editions were set up in 2009 with 5 studio albums in mind. Mick confirmed a few years ago in an interview that GOATS HEAD SOUP and TATTOO YOU were the other two titles. If sales expectations are lowered, it isn't worth the investment for the last of the run.

If a new studio album falls short of target, you might try to recoup with a live album or another compilation. These days not only is the market severely different and a band led by a pair of near octogenarians are never going to set the world on fire with a hit single, it's a question of what product makes sense and how reasonable is a budget to promote. Ever-diminishing returns have a serious impact especially when Universal makes less on streaming with the Stones than most other artists on their roster.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: toomuchforme ()
Date: November 10, 2021 20:15

interesting your thoughts on TTY sound. I think the sound is not that bad on the album (for now I listened to the Tidal hifi stream and I received today the deluxe cd box set with the vinyl picture disc

Read this about Miles Showell
[www.abbeyroad.com]

I believe this is only on vinyl half speed master work. So it is not on CD ?
But maybe an audio extraction would be interesting

"we know it's a bit late but we hope you don't mind if we stay"

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: forest73 ()
Date: November 10, 2021 21:59

hi Fi matérial

Cd driver Bel Canto
Ampli Bel Canto
Speakers Bw804 s

For me Wembley Stadium is the best
Live of 81 82 tour (level of 81 Hampton)

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: caoutchouc ()
Date: November 11, 2021 10:18

Quote
marquess
Quote
caoutchouc
Quote
O2
Quote
caoutchouc
You're absolutely right. Stephen Marcusen made a very bad job. I'm an high fidelity addict (JBL/McIntosh/Audio Research equipment) and sincerely the sound is muddy, without space, compressed, highs are harsch. Same things on the Wembley show.

The best Tattoo You remastering was made by Miles Showell in the Box "Studio albums collction". Here the sound is plenty, smooth, with body and opulent bass.

Pascal

I've heard Miles Showell's remastering of Tattoo You and you're right ... sound is amazing. Much better than the new 2021 remastering. Clear sound, powerful bass.

How is the sound of the other LP's?

Thank You!!!!

the sound of the other LP's are awfull too!


Hello Caouthchouc,

by "other LP´s", you are reffering to the other albums remastered by Miles Showeel, or the other LP´s present in the "Tattoo You Deluxe Reissue"?

Regards.

I'm referring to the other LP's remastered by Miles Showeel. All Lp's sounds great, Miles uses valves/tubes amps for the remastering and havetried to preserve the magic of the original recordings.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: November 11, 2021 20:44

the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Date: November 11, 2021 21:48

Quote
snoopy2
the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Neither Trouble's A Coming nor Drift Away are Stones-tunes.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: November 11, 2021 23:04

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Neither Trouble's A Coming nor Drift Away are Stones-tunes.

yeah..I know..Not sure what you're getting at?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-11 23:05 by snoopy2.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 11, 2021 23:32

both are cover versions ......



ROCKMAN

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 12, 2021 18:35

Quote
ironbelly

The Beatles - Let It Be, 50th anniversary edition will be released on October 15
The Rolling Stones - Tattoo You, 40th anniversary edition will be released on October 22
ABBA-Voyage will be released on November 5
What are the chances Tattoo You, 40th anniversary will reach the top spot in the charts and will it survive after November 5?

In Germany on 12-Nov-2021, Top-100 Album-Charts:

Beatles, Let It Be - #35 - (22-Oct-2021: #3) - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .
Stones, Tattoo You - #40 - (29-Oct-2021: #3) - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .
ABBA, Voyage - #1 - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Date: November 12, 2021 19:16

Quote
snoopy2
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Neither Trouble's A Coming nor Drift Away are Stones-tunes.

yeah..I know..Not sure what you're getting at?

That's why they're not Stones tunes lyric-wise smiling smiley

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: November 12, 2021 20:13

It does make sense that UMG weren't going to go out of their way to push TYD based on the poor sales of GHS that they must have sunk a ton of cash in (fabricated Scarlet story, remixes, etc...) but to sing that low...heck they even linked to that hideous "Jagger video for the marketing team" from 1981 shared by a random dude on YT.

Also you'd think the Stones could have done a little bit more to promote it during the tour, what would that have cost them ?! Is it beneath them or what ? Or did they want UMG to pay them for promoting it ? Other than playing TAC a few times at the beginning and vaguely referring to it as a "new song" have they mentioned TYD at all ?

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: November 13, 2021 13:00

Quote
gotdablouse

Other than playing TAC a few times at the beginning and vaguely referring to it as a "new song" have they mentioned TYD at all ?

Maybe the Hard Rock Show (Hollywood, FL, Nov. 23rd) will be TYD Live (same as Fonda 2015) ?

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Bashlets ()
Date: November 13, 2021 14:12

Would love TY live in its entirety like Sticky but extremely doubtful it would happen. They would need a month to rehearse it.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 14, 2021 05:44

Quote
gotdablouse
It does make sense that UMG weren't going to go out of their way to push TYD based on the poor sales of GHS that they must have sunk a ton of cash in (fabricated Scarlet story, remixes, etc...) but to sing that low...heck they even linked to that hideous "Jagger video for the marketing team" from 1981 shared by a random dude on YT.

Also you'd think the Stones could have done a little bit more to promote it during the tour, what would that have cost them ?! Is it beneath them or what ? Or did they want UMG to pay them for promoting it ? Other than playing TAC a few times at the beginning and vaguely referring to it as a "new song" have they mentioned TYD at all ?

It is a bit odd. Nary anything about GHS as well, like Scarlet.

In 2019, I forget what part of the show, there was some montage on the screens and in it was HONK for not even 2 seconds.

That was the only time it was mentioned.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: rogerriffin ()
Date: November 14, 2021 06:32

It's a great release, I found here in Mexico at 100usd, great deal I think!

Here my unboxing in spanish
[youtu.be]

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: goingmad ()
Date: November 15, 2021 13:52

I received yesterday de 2LP edition and I love it. Maybe I'm not an expert in high fidelity matters, but listening to it with my audio technica headphones, it was a great experience, above all the lost and found tracks.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: November 15, 2021 14:32

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Neither Trouble's A Coming nor Drift Away are Stones-tunes.

yeah..I know..Not sure what you're getting at?

That's why they're not Stones tunes lyric-wise smiling smiley

trouble with online, too much explaining to do: I meant: Troubles A Comin sounds like a tune the Stones could and should do (to me), but Drift Away does not fit them "lyric wise" (to me).. Make sense? I know they're covers, heck they do a ton of covers, but Drift Away just doesn't seem to fit them (once again, IMHO)

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Date: November 15, 2021 14:35

Quote
snoopy2
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
snoopy2
the more I listen to Troubles A Comin the more I like it, especially the lyrics.. Hope they put it back in the live show..

also enjoy most of the extras, especially It's A Lie.. the only odd one to me is Drift Away.. for some reason doesn't seem like a Stones tune lyric wise, but I don't skip over it

Neither Trouble's A Coming nor Drift Away are Stones-tunes.

yeah..I know..Not sure what you're getting at?

That's why they're not Stones tunes lyric-wise smiling smiley

trouble with online, too much explaining to do: I meant: Troubles A Comin sounds like a tune the Stones could and should do (to me), but Drift Away does not fit them "lyric wise" (to me).. Make sense? I know they're covers, heck they do a ton of covers, but Drift Away just doesn't seem to fit them (once again, IMHO)

Makes sense thumbs up

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 15, 2021 19:31

Quote
snoopy2
I meant: Troubles A Comin sounds like a tune the Stones could and should do (to me)
They did do that track back in 1976 : it was titled "Crazy Mama"! winking smiley

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