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liddasQuote
Doxa
It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.
- Doxa
I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).
C
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retired_dogQuote
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liddasQuote
Doxa
It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.
- Doxa
I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).
C
That is certainly plausible. Good hypothesis!
Of course, but my first impression is still standing - on some tracks, the "rawness" works, while some others like Back Of My Hand, Biggest Mistake and Streets Of Love for example simply sound like more or less cheap demos, too one-dimensional, too much "in your face", whatever one wants to call it - these could have used a bit more production finesse, more "air", more interesting textures/soundscapes.
That and the impression that the album is simply too long for such an one-dimensional "rawness exercise" in general and the songwriting quality of certain tracks in particular ("Infamy", "Driving Too Fast", "Dangerous Beauty" and the like). A bit like "Voodoo Lounge", the longer it plays, one increasingly loses interest.
A shortened tracklist, the addition of "Under the Radar" and a bit more imaginative production on certain tracks while keeping the "rawness" of some others could have helped the album tremendously.
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gotdablouse
Exactly, someone's finally hit the nail on the head, ABB sounds like a collection of demos for the most part. Even worse, demos that they tried to spruce up in the studio but since you "can't polish a turd" like Keith like to say, they ended up making them worse, ONNYA for instance sounded a lot better when they first played it at Juilliard. It stood to reason that getting help from seasoned players and producers like they did for B2B could only have produced something a lot better and memorable...
Too bad Mick didn't put his foot down after also being downvoted for VL and then later complaining about it very publicly in the long Wenner interview in 1995. Maybe he got pressed for time (like he did for WS) and couldn't delay the tour.
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mkbbcmr
"Back Of My Hand" sounds "somewhat sterile"? I beg to differ. The "detached" vocals, the dystopian lyrics ("Goya's paranoias" indeed) and the rawness of the recording add up to anything but sterile. Great track.
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MrEchoBest track on ABB.Quote
mkbbcmr
"Back Of My Hand" sounds "somewhat sterile"? I beg to differ. The "detached" vocals, the dystopian lyrics ("Goya's paranoias" indeed) and the rawness of the recording add up to anything but sterile. Great track.
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Doxa
Damn great remarks here about the latest album of originals here! I dig the variety of opinions. That's what discussion is all about, right?
I said above that probably the album had been better if Mick had his will through - that they should have done something to the material in a proper studio, like Keith told us. Well, who knows. That's speculation if it would been sharpened into EXILE form, like I provocatively proposed, or would the result been something over-produced stuff like "Juiced" (probably the weakest track the Stones have ever released in my book).
But A BIGGER BANG is what it is. An artistic statement of its own. It is something the Stones released and wanted to release back then and were ready to stand behind.
And I think it is unique sounding thing. It doesn't sound like BRIDGES or any classic Stones album. It is 'raw', demo-like. Its backing tracks are based on Mick's beats, Charlie just over-dubbing them. Not him taking part in 'writing' the song. The bass parts, the guitars and most of the stuff is just Mick and Keith, Ronnie doing some quick over-dubs. Minimal side musicians. None of the old magic of 'the whole band capturing the groove in this precise moment' really present. It was built up differently, piece by piece.
Well, we can say it was not any big artistic success, quite the contrary. But I think its distinguishness lies in its 'odd' nature. Not every Stones album should sound like some sort of 'ideal' Stones album or similar like some other. Nor I don't think any classic album or masterpiece was lost had they re-worked some the material. The song-writing was not that strong to begin with. A tiny better it might have been due to some track edition, re-working etc. Make them sound more 'easy-listening' to trained Stones fan ears. But not essentially better. We could say the same about DIRTY WORK if we like.
It is an honest representation what the Stones as creative artists were at the time. What they wanted to 'say' then.
It is what it is, and that's alright. Without it their legacy would have been less interesting. At least as a Stones fan I think so.
- Doxa
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Doxa
Yeah, R Dog, I get what you mean by doing best under those circumstances, since them not being ideal. But still, I think, as they did release the album they, pragmatically speaking, were pleased with it enough, and were ready stand behind it. I mean, these were the guys who once thought that ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS or SOME GIRLS LIVE IN TEXAS were too subpar to be released. Surely the circumstances were different in 2005 and probably they were not so worried about the quality in order to get the album out for the tour, but still... Now, in the case of a new album, they supposedly think differently (quality seems to matter), but are we sure they weren't that different in 2005?
Honestly, I don't know. But what I tend to think is that the artists, if they were to release something, are somehow satisfied with the product. That it actually expresses something they want to 'say'.
The thing in regard to A BIGGER BANG is that we do know a lot about the circumstances under which the album was done, and we seem to indicate that those mattered for the album not being so good. But we don't know does the band think similarly. Or if it was not fulfilling their artistic purposes. Or, theoretically, if Mick and Keith's songs had been better, the album had been better the album had been better, no matter how it was executed. Or, had some kind of miracle happened, The Glimmer Twins had given us a masterpiece by some other means. What I try to say is that we are using some old concepts of how the Stones once have worked in order to explain why the results weren't that great this time. Nothing wrong there, but I am not so sure if the explanation is that valid. Creativity or the greatness of art cannot be reduced to following old habits and customs.
Hmmm...Probably I just try to say that what I am to judge what people like Mick Jagger or Keith Richards should do in order to get the best out of them.. They are their own masters, and I am just a follower...
- Doxa
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bitusa2012
I really REALLY like ABB. I love Under the Radar and Wanna go Home. They should have both been ON the album main. Could have replaced She saw me Coming and Look What the Cat Dragged in.
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DandelionPowderman
The Rolling Stones Mobile Studio?
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SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowderman
The Rolling Stones Mobile Studio?
Right. Do we have any idea of the equipment that was used on ABB?
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
SomeGuyQuote
DandelionPowderman
The Rolling Stones Mobile Studio?
Right. Do we have any idea of the equipment that was used on ABB?
I said it in jest, but I believe Mick said something about laptops. They probably had the best equipment possible regarding mics etc, though.
I read in a newspaper, that in Keith's book or in an interview around 2005, Keith says that BTB is an album too underrated by the fans.Quote
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Doxa
Yeah, R Dog, I get what you mean by doing best under those circumstances, since them not being ideal. But still, I think, as they did release the album they, pragmatically speaking, were pleased with it enough, and were ready stand behind it. I mean, these were the guys who once thought that ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS or SOME GIRLS LIVE IN TEXAS were too subpar to be released. Surely the circumstances were different in 2005 and probably they were not so worried about the quality in order to get the album out for the tour, but still... Now, in the case of a new album, they supposedly think differently (quality seems to matter), but are we sure they weren't that different in 2005?
Honestly, I don't know. But what I tend to think is that the artists, if they were to release something, are somehow satisfied with the product. That it actually expresses something they want to 'say'.
The thing in regard to A BIGGER BANG is that we do know a lot about the circumstances under which the album was done, and we seem to indicate that those mattered for the album not being so good. But we don't know does the band think similarly. Or if it was not fulfilling their artistic purposes. Or, theoretically, if Mick and Keith's songs had been better, the album had been better the album had been better, no matter how it was executed. Or, had some kind of miracle happened, The Glimmer Twins had given us a masterpiece by some other means. What I try to say is that we are using some old concepts of how the Stones once have worked in order to explain why the results weren't that great this time. Nothing wrong there, but I am not so sure if the explanation is that valid. Creativity or the greatness of art cannot be reduced to following old habits and customs.
Hmmm...Probably I just try to say that what I am to judge what people like Mick Jagger or Keith Richards should do in order to get the best out of them.. They are their own masters, and I am just a follower...
- Doxa
I think the terms I marked in bold, "pleased with it enough" and "somehow satisfied with the product" describe best what they may have felt after the completion of ABB. I mean, they are no idiots and surely realize that "Rough Justice" is no "All Down The Line", "Streets Of Love" is no "Angie" or "Wild Horses" and "Back Of My Hand" is no "Love In Vain", "Down In The Hole", maybe not even no "The Storm".
Still, ABB as a whole is not that bad that it would have been impossible to stand behind it - at the time, that is. And both Mick and Keith are clever enough in promo talks to give you the impression that they're really, really convinced and satisfied with whatever product they put out.
It's only readable in the aftermath, the years to follow the fact what they may really have thought about a certain project. Let's not forget that ABB was a contractual obligation, their last album for Virgin/EMI, so they had to release something. Yes, there's some good stuff on it. Yes, it was cheap to produce. No harm in putting it out - even without studio polish. They knew they could get away with it because back then, it already must have dawned on them that new albums were not essential for touring. Consequently, their next contract with Universal lacks any obligation to record new albums of originals.
I think that after ABB, they did not want a situation ever again where they would be contractually forced to release something. Something they may in their hearts not have been totally satisfied with. I think that tells something about how they were really thinking about the album. Plus they were getting older, plus they realized they could sell tickets without new music, of course.
As mentioned before in this thread - the fact that a new album of original music is finally on the horizon without any contractual pressures makes me very optimistic that this fabled "new album" is not a contrived one, not full of compromises, but something that truly represents whereever their artistic route and creative ways have led them.
Something they really, really want to say.
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Deathgod
Don’t understand all the hate for Streets of Love.
I love it and the crowds seeing it live seemed to as well
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liddasQuote
Doxa
It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.
- Doxa
I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).
C
Annnnnnd yet it’s B2B for which many of us here are hoping. The last Stones classic album. It’s the last album that has held up well over time.
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JumpingKentFlash
I still love lots of stuff on A Bigger Bang. It’s bloated yes, and very hot and miss. A track like ONNYA - It really rocks! It’s a shame then that the lyrics for it are so abysmal. Then look at a song like Dangerous Beauty, which I think has great lyrics. And it rocks too….
It’s just overall it has that bloated feel, much more so than any of the previous three albums. You could cut it down to 10 songs to make it much better. That is indeed true for every album since SW.
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Bjorn
I want a new positive rumor.