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DoxaQuote
JordyLicks96
Unless I'm getting the story wrong but I feel like this new album is progressing sort of similarly the way VOODOO LOUNGE was when it was being recorded in '93. They had written and recorded a lot of diverse material for VOODOO LOUNGE that Don Was didn't approve of. The songs that ended up being on the album were more straight up Stones by the numbers. They were also recorded during the last lot of sessions at the end of '93 because the stuff they had recorded before wasn't up to par with Was. It's also why Mick didn't like how VOODOO LOUNGE turned out. He gave up fighting for what he wanted the album to sound like.
It seems most albums after SOME GIRLS were done with some sort of issues during the recording process, or ended up not being up to Stones standards. EMOTIONAL RESCUE saw the first Glimmer Twins battle as Keith thought Mick was getting his way too much in the studio. TATTOO YOU was done because, as stated by Chris Kimsey, Mick and Keith were going through a period of not getting on. UNDERCOVER was the tug-of-war of keeping the Stones current and keeping them to their roots. DIRTY WORK was a mess because Mick only gave a crap about his own material, and Keith led most of the sessions alone, which didn't produce amazing material. STEEL WHEELS, I don't really think had a lot of direction as it was rushed recorded for release in late '89, thus why there's so little material outside what ended up on the album. I already told the VL story lol. Mick got his way on BRIDGES TO BABYLON, which was okay but a mixed bag at best. As much as Mick and Keith were really writing together for A BIGGER BANG, which produced a couple good songs, had way too much filler and none of the songs stood out more than being plain rock songs.
Now with this new album, it feels like they have a lot of that diverse material again that the record company, and especially Keith, are not approving of. So they keep going back into the studio trying to record stuff everyone can agree on. But, like georgelicks said, there are Mick mixes to a few songs and Keith mixes. It's a BRIDGES TO BABYLON type situation again about who they're bringing in to help with the material. We're definitely not going to end up with another VOODOO LOUNGE where that diverse material goes out the window, Mick won't let that happen, but what I'm feeling from all of this is another album like UNDERCOVER. The Glimmer Twins doing a tug-of-war on material and ending up with a crazy mix of songs like "Feel On Baby" and than "Too Tough" three songs after. That's what I'm afraid of.
Interesting thoughts, and I pretty much think alike the progression since SOME GIRLS. Superbly put together with a few sentences the nature of the individual albums since then!
Didn't thought the VOODOO LOUNGE comparison earlier, but yeah, you have a point there. Actually I've been always a bit confused about Jagger's role in creating that album, since he's so critical about the outcome almost immadiately when it was released (being 'too retro', etc.). It looks like Don was at the time the needed 'second opinion' - or a third man/judge - Mick and Keith needed, and thereby he got more to say about the final result than any producer or co-producer since Jimmy Miller days. Jagger seemingly accepted the deal, and let Don call the shots. But like you said, with BRIDGES TO BABYLON that wasn't any longer the case, and Mick had a bigger say on the result.
Anyway, it will be interesting to hear what the upcoming album turns to be like. More that of VOODOO LOUNGE/A BIGGER BANG traditionalism or more UNDERCOVER/BRIDGES TO BABYLON ecclectisism. For me it just the same; I don't think the Stones have any safe and sure formula for greatness. They can come up with a very traditional-sounding song, or some odd experiment with some more contemporary-sounding idea, and both might sound fresh and novel. Or, unfortunately more likely, that the first-mentioned sounds boring and 'Stones-by-numbers' and the latter artificial and ridiculous... but if one believes that that aren't able to come up with anything really mind-blowing and memorable (their output since TATTOO YOU can be used as an argument for that), I guess that of the question of musical style might have a strong significance. For someone 'safe and sure' might be rewarding as for someone else a bit more 'experimential' (in that funny Jaggerian sense of the word) do the same trick.
But if a thing like "Gotta Get a Grip" is not suitable for the Stones (a song that is not more far from their home vocabulary than "Undercover of The Night" once was), it is safe to say that the album will be a rather traditional sounding Stones album, not much 'experimentalism'. But who knows, if Jagger by releasing "Grip" solo, send also a message to Keith, and the latter might have changed his stance since then...
But in the end, one cannot predict the future especially as far as the mystery of creativity is involved. Whatever kind of masterpieces can be created under whatever kind of terrible circumstances, and whatever crap might come up from perfect and ideal-sounding circumstances. Be the 'style' whatever. But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
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runrudolph
Thats true Jordy.but i hope it will be a coherent sounding album and not overproduced. Hope they keep the sound like Blue n lonesome. Just a few killer riffs and no shite songs like Doom and Gloom.
Maybe as bonus.. songs outtakes from the Golden Era??
Jeroen
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Doxa
But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
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mtaylorQuote
Strike
Every day two new pages of nothing, is life that boring??
It is like social media: Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn - lots of time on nothing. Life has become "Nothing".
Funny enough, a research in Denmark has found out that the intellectual capacity among young men is decreasing. It started to decrease in 98 has slowly gone down ever since. Coinciding with the broader introduction of Internet, SMS etc.
People's brain-work has been put on standby doing nothing.
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retired_dogQuote
Doxa
But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
Not me, Doxa, not me. Far from it, although my little sketch above may indicate otherwise.
But I must admit that I'm also not free of any doubts concerning the new material because if they had good to great song material to start with, would all this obvious second or even third guessing be necessary? Recording, re-recording, countless different mixes...
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Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
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DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
No matter if he is a shadow of his former self, as long as Keith just is there doing his thing, that has a natural influence for the whole sound of the band. When the band shines, Keith shines... like they did in BLUE & LONESOME.
- Doxa
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Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones where much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
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TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones where much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
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runrudolphQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) were still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must be possible after 55+ years of existence.
For Gods sake, dont forget Stu.
Jeroen
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.