Tell Me :
Talk
Agreed Doxa. I like the Stones traditional and when they're experimental. It's what makes them so diverse and interesting. They've touched on almost every genre of music out there. Blues, Rock n Roll, Pop, Soul, Psychedelia, Country, Gospel, Reggae, Punk, Funk, and the list goes on. I've always appreciated BRIDGES TO BABYLON for being the only latter day Stones album that was eclectic and tried to take the band in new directions. I just think the end result didn't have enough of a classic Stones sound to it. That's what I'm hoping for this new album, for a new Stones sound but mixed with that classic Stones sound. Mick said around the time BLUE & LONESOME came out, "I hope it's gonna be a very eclectic album. I hope some of it's gonna be recognizable Stones and some of it's gonna be some Stones you never heard before." And that's exactly what I'm hoping for too. That's why I think this one will be a great one, I think it'll surprise all Stones fans and be worth this long wait for it
Not me, Doxa, not me. Far from it, although my little sketch above may indicate otherwise.
But I must admit that I'm also not free of any doubts concerning the new material because if they had good to great song material to start with, would all this obvious second or even third guessing be necessary? Recording, re-recording, countless different mixes...
But the ‘news’ or ‘current events’ are the OPPOSITE of boring.
Maybe ‘fun’ or a laugh, which means you’re in the moment, balances it out.
And really, social media can take minutes (except Twitter maybe, IDK) check check out.
I have found personally in re: to reading whole books: now with availability of book reviews online, getting ‘free digital samples’ (game changer)
and information availability online,
I can glean enough sometimes from ^ to then not warrant reading the entire story/ author’s full text.
New Album:
I guess they are holding it, looking for timing baby ;-). Lol
wrong.
tell the truth hairball
Haha, wasn't particularly thinking of you... Yep, there is a good chance that they are desperatively thick head-like trying to make something out of second-rate material. But then again, that of not rejecting the songs, if they doesn't seem to work, might also indicate that they believe on the material, and just want to make them perfect, no matter how many tries and takes it takes. As it looks like, Jagger (and probably him with Keith too) is constantly making new songs, so if that's the case, why to stick to old ones and instead try some new ones (which they might also do, of course)?
I think the problem with many of their recent albums, from STEEL WHEELS on actually, had been that of them being a bit too satisfied how the songs turn out to be by about first take when the backing track is laid. No matter how over-produced some of those songs sound like, there has been also the feeling that they still are sort of half-baked creatively (especially as a band effort). A poster named Bärs once aptly described that sounding like at the same time trying too much and too little... another positive sign for those afraid of Jagger's too big influence at the cost of Richards, is that most likely the new recorded material is rather far from the stage of Jagger's demos. That of re-recording them is a strong indication of that. Who knows, if we really try to make anti-Jagger clan a bit more non-fatal here, if that re-recording is really putting more Richards-influence on them. I think the problem Keith has have with Mick has not been Mick's songs per se, but how they would deliver/record them. Keith's influence is not just adding some licks on a demo, or even starting to write a song from a riff, but that of the whole group working the song together through, and see what happens. To my eyes the last feature has been the one Keith has been fighting for.
Think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 13:40 by Doxa.
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 14:00 by TheflyingDutchman.
It could be as you describe very well. The bulk of song-writing has been left to shoulders of Mick a long time ago, and this I think what Keith has accepted as well, no matter what he comes across in his interviews (antennae's out all the time, three dynamite riffs, etc.). CROSSYED HEART was a result if he would have been left alone (with Jordan to kick a bit ass though), have all the time he needed, using ideas he has developed through the years, and little by little, through lazy sunday afternoon sessions, those would be worked into released form. Most likely Jagger with his limited attention span would never have patience to spar Keith there. Yep, most probably there are a few 'pure' Richards songs in the new recordings, songs he has accomplished with Jordan, then introduced to Mick to add his output (if the song is not a pure Richards ballad no needing Jagger touch).
But leaving the song-writing aside, and no matter if he is not kind of musical muscle he once was, I think that of the sessions taking longer as they were intially thought to take, even re-recording some material, that to me sounds like Keith having a rather strong say there. If it would be just up to Jagger, I believe the album would have been finished a long time ago. Some may interpret that as Keith just being a naysayer, but it could be as well that Mick also takes Keith's opinion seriously, especially if it is backed up by Don Was (or even by Universal people). Since there is no any urge (deadline) for the album to be finished, Jagger untypically is not rushing anything (and, in the end, The Rolling Stones is not just a Mick Jagger show). I think the general rule is: quicker the project takes, more Jagger dominated it is, and the longer it takes, more Richards influence there is.
With my proposal above, I didn't expect Keith being any huge musical dynamo he once was, but him just suggesting some minor things, such as tempo changes or brief arrangement ideas, but most of all: the whole band just playing the songs together through until capturing the right 'feel' there... No matter if he is a shadow of his former self, as long as Keith just is there doing his thing, that has a natural influence for the whole sound of the band. When the band shines, Keith shines... like they did in BLUE & LONESOME.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 15:58 by Doxa.
That's correct of course.
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) were still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 20:55 by TheflyingDutchman.
Of course they were and that is clearly obvious, but I was mainly referring to songwriting, and mostly the post Brian era.
They could have let Ronnie in on the songwriting bubble more often to add some extra spice the last few decades,
but seems they're stuck in their ways of "Jagger/Richards" which at times sounds more like Jagger vs. Richards.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 20:38 by Hairball.
For Gods sake, dont forget Stu.
Jeroen
Right. And Hopkins etc.
I think you guys don't recall the Keith quote I was referring to. It is from the early 70's - I guess around EXILE-era - in which Keith simply says "I shine when the band shines". In the same context he says that he doesn't give a damn about Eric Claptons or other shining lead guitarists, because 'none of those guys can keep that that rhythm down-down-down' (or something to the effect).
To me that's always been the philosophy of Keith Richards I admire most in him - he doesn't need to individually shine or to be distinguished, but when the band - or a song - as a whole shines he knows he is doing his job right. That's band leading (and musical directing) at best. That's also the reason I was (partly) moved by BLUE & LONESOME - the band sounding like one big organ, the whole being much more than the sum of its parts. Hadn't heard that for years if not even for decades. Keith was doing his part more than fine, and I am sure smiling all the way through the process. That's his Rolling Stones. If some of his hardcore fans here (no names) had entered to the studio to see them working on those blues covers and having asked 'hey Keef, why don't you play more solos or sing individually some song' he would most likely met with a death cold stare (if not a blade) with a reply 'man, you don't know a shit about me or The Rolling Stones. Listen @#$%& what we do now. I have not managed to make these guys sound so awesome for ages. This is what I do'.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 22:17 by Doxa.
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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 25, 2019 21:57
Its gonna be interesting what kind of album its gonna be like indeed. another Bridges or another Voodoo??
We will see in 2 years time.
Jeroen
We will see in 2 years time.
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
JordyLicks96
()
Date: February 25, 2019 21:59
Quote
DoxaQuote
JordyLicks96
Unless I'm getting the story wrong but I feel like this new album is progressing sort of similarly the way VOODOO LOUNGE was when it was being recorded in '93. They had written and recorded a lot of diverse material for VOODOO LOUNGE that Don Was didn't approve of. The songs that ended up being on the album were more straight up Stones by the numbers. They were also recorded during the last lot of sessions at the end of '93 because the stuff they had recorded before wasn't up to par with Was. It's also why Mick didn't like how VOODOO LOUNGE turned out. He gave up fighting for what he wanted the album to sound like.
It seems most albums after SOME GIRLS were done with some sort of issues during the recording process, or ended up not being up to Stones standards. EMOTIONAL RESCUE saw the first Glimmer Twins battle as Keith thought Mick was getting his way too much in the studio. TATTOO YOU was done because, as stated by Chris Kimsey, Mick and Keith were going through a period of not getting on. UNDERCOVER was the tug-of-war of keeping the Stones current and keeping them to their roots. DIRTY WORK was a mess because Mick only gave a crap about his own material, and Keith led most of the sessions alone, which didn't produce amazing material. STEEL WHEELS, I don't really think had a lot of direction as it was rushed recorded for release in late '89, thus why there's so little material outside what ended up on the album. I already told the VL story lol. Mick got his way on BRIDGES TO BABYLON, which was okay but a mixed bag at best. As much as Mick and Keith were really writing together for A BIGGER BANG, which produced a couple good songs, had way too much filler and none of the songs stood out more than being plain rock songs.
Now with this new album, it feels like they have a lot of that diverse material again that the record company, and especially Keith, are not approving of. So they keep going back into the studio trying to record stuff everyone can agree on. But, like georgelicks said, there are Mick mixes to a few songs and Keith mixes. It's a BRIDGES TO BABYLON type situation again about who they're bringing in to help with the material. We're definitely not going to end up with another VOODOO LOUNGE where that diverse material goes out the window, Mick won't let that happen, but what I'm feeling from all of this is another album like UNDERCOVER. The Glimmer Twins doing a tug-of-war on material and ending up with a crazy mix of songs like "Feel On Baby" and than "Too Tough" three songs after. That's what I'm afraid of.
Interesting thoughts, and I pretty much think alike the progression since SOME GIRLS. Superbly put together with a few sentences the nature of the individual albums since then!
Didn't thought the VOODOO LOUNGE comparison earlier, but yeah, you have a point there. Actually I've been always a bit confused about Jagger's role in creating that album, since he's so critical about the outcome almost immadiately when it was released (being 'too retro', etc.). It looks like Don was at the time the needed 'second opinion' - or a third man/judge - Mick and Keith needed, and thereby he got more to say about the final result than any producer or co-producer since Jimmy Miller days. Jagger seemingly accepted the deal, and let Don call the shots. But like you said, with BRIDGES TO BABYLON that wasn't any longer the case, and Mick had a bigger say on the result.
Anyway, it will be interesting to hear what the upcoming album turns to be like. More that of VOODOO LOUNGE/A BIGGER BANG traditionalism or more UNDERCOVER/BRIDGES TO BABYLON ecclectisism. For me it just the same; I don't think the Stones have any safe and sure formula for greatness. They can come up with a very traditional-sounding song, or some odd experiment with some more contemporary-sounding idea, and both might sound fresh and novel. Or, unfortunately more likely, that the first-mentioned sounds boring and 'Stones-by-numbers' and the latter artificial and ridiculous... but if one believes that that aren't able to come up with anything really mind-blowing and memorable (their output since TATTOO YOU can be used as an argument for that), I guess that of the question of musical style might have a strong significance. For someone 'safe and sure' might be rewarding as for someone else a bit more 'experimential' (in that funny Jaggerian sense of the word) do the same trick.
But if a thing like "Gotta Get a Grip" is not suitable for the Stones (a song that is not more far from their home vocabulary than "Undercover of The Night" once was), it is safe to say that the album will be a rather traditional sounding Stones album, not much 'experimentalism'. But who knows, if Jagger by releasing "Grip" solo, send also a message to Keith, and the latter might have changed his stance since then...
But in the end, one cannot predict the future especially as far as the mystery of creativity is involved. Whatever kind of masterpieces can be created under whatever kind of terrible circumstances, and whatever crap might come up from perfect and ideal-sounding circumstances. Be the 'style' whatever. But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
Agreed Doxa. I like the Stones traditional and when they're experimental. It's what makes them so diverse and interesting. They've touched on almost every genre of music out there. Blues, Rock n Roll, Pop, Soul, Psychedelia, Country, Gospel, Reggae, Punk, Funk, and the list goes on. I've always appreciated BRIDGES TO BABYLON for being the only latter day Stones album that was eclectic and tried to take the band in new directions. I just think the end result didn't have enough of a classic Stones sound to it. That's what I'm hoping for this new album, for a new Stones sound but mixed with that classic Stones sound. Mick said around the time BLUE & LONESOME came out, "I hope it's gonna be a very eclectic album. I hope some of it's gonna be recognizable Stones and some of it's gonna be some Stones you never heard before." And that's exactly what I'm hoping for too. That's why I think this one will be a great one, I think it'll surprise all Stones fans and be worth this long wait for it
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 25, 2019 22:10
Thats true Jordy.but i hope it will be a coherent sounding album and not overproduced. Hope they keep the sound like Blue n lonesome. Just a few killer riffs and no shite songs like Doom and Gloom.
Maybe as bonus ...songs outtakes from the Golden Era??
Jeroen
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-25 22:12 by runrudolph.
Maybe as bonus ...songs outtakes from the Golden Era??
Jeroen
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-25 22:12 by runrudolph.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 25, 2019 22:12
Quote
runrudolph
Thats true Jordy.but i hope it will be a coherent sounding album and not overproduced. Hope they keep the sound like Blue n lonesome. Just a few killer riffs and no shite songs like Doom and Gloom.
Maybe as bonus.. songs outtakes from the Golden Era??
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: February 25, 2019 22:45
Quote
Doxa
But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
Not me, Doxa, not me. Far from it, although my little sketch above may indicate otherwise.
But I must admit that I'm also not free of any doubts concerning the new material because if they had good to great song material to start with, would all this obvious second or even third guessing be necessary? Recording, re-recording, countless different mixes...
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: February 25, 2019 23:29
Quote
mtaylorQuote
Strike
Every day two new pages of nothing, is life that boring??
It is like social media: Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn - lots of time on nothing. Life has become "Nothing".
Funny enough, a research in Denmark has found out that the intellectual capacity among young men is decreasing. It started to decrease in 98 has slowly gone down ever since. Coinciding with the broader introduction of Internet, SMS etc.
People's brain-work has been put on standby doing nothing.
But the ‘news’ or ‘current events’ are the OPPOSITE of boring.
Maybe ‘fun’ or a laugh, which means you’re in the moment, balances it out.
And really, social media can take minutes (except Twitter maybe, IDK) check check out.
I have found personally in re: to reading whole books: now with availability of book reviews online, getting ‘free digital samples’ (game changer)
and information availability online,
I can glean enough sometimes from ^ to then not warrant reading the entire story/ author’s full text.
New Album:
I guess they are holding it, looking for timing baby ;-). Lol
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
terry
()
Date: February 25, 2019 23:40
The never eanding thread goes on.
My feelings is after the us tour and all goes well
Then I think they will finish off the album.
I see it the stones won't be thinking about a final tour/concert,
But to leave us with an album.
Mabey a double album ....I think that will be there goodbye.
There's been so many final tours and one off show's by other artist,that
I think the stones don't want to end it like that.
But it would of been nice to release a couple of songs before the tour....sighs
My feelings is after the us tour and all goes well
Then I think they will finish off the album.
I see it the stones won't be thinking about a final tour/concert,
But to leave us with an album.
Mabey a double album ....I think that will be there goodbye.
There's been so many final tours and one off show's by other artist,that
I think the stones don't want to end it like that.
But it would of been nice to release a couple of songs before the tour....sighs
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: February 26, 2019 00:20
[twitter.com]
bringing the truth baby
i checked with myself a number of times to make sure.
so this comes with great authority in the world of pupulative music.
it's great.
(you might check the first comment in response to this Tweet, as it were).
That guy from shul at the rock is showing the way, people.
gif me baby. gif me all you gott.
i hear the click clack of urr feet on the stairssss...
oops, sorry...
oh yeah, tell the truth.
funkah funkah tweet babeee.
well alright
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 00:25 by hopkins.
bringing the truth baby
i checked with myself a number of times to make sure.
so this comes with great authority in the world of pupulative music.
it's great.
(you might check the first comment in response to this Tweet, as it were).
That guy from shul at the rock is showing the way, people.
gif me baby. gif me all you gott.
i hear the click clack of urr feet on the stairssss...
oops, sorry...
oh yeah, tell the truth.
funkah funkah tweet babeee.
well alright
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 00:25 by hopkins.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: February 26, 2019 00:33
All we really know about the supposed new album is right here > Stones
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: February 26, 2019 00:38
Lets hear it for the muther-humpin' ROLLING STONES, people.
A legacy experience baby.
i don't care if it sells out.
if keith gets hungry i'll FED EX him a that cow-potato thing he gets
his panties in a knot about. Before Ten AM baby.
plus chips, it's keith; i'm not gonna quibble.
tell the truth;
here we go; we've got to accept some deep fan leadership
i mean project some.
ready?
all together now, (not the dam beetle thing, More like 'we love you' but they
don't. and that's a writers professional skillsets, it's called ironing).
so let's project that good energy into the internatial community right now;
especially NA cause that's where thetouris...money are. I mean is.
Jungian slip there pay it no mind.
no mind no mind no mind.
i'm chanting.
no guru no method no teacher
no i'm not i'm listening to van the man...
whoa oh domino, roll me over Romeo,
....
.
...wait a dam minute here...wtf.
i suppose he slept with mick after bowie what the hell, people.
anyway.
yep.
stand up.
everybody.
all the men folk say uhhhh
come on i can't hear you.
say uhhhhh
uhhh
alright.
ladies your turn stand up
sssh
stand up.
no it's not an order.
no it's not hundreds of years of an insane patriarchy that have kept you down, it's a friggin' boogaloo opportunity.
no i didn't.
that's bullshit.
ok.
you first.
i'll be back...
tell the truth people.
let people know.
we don't care what it sounds like that's for other bands and SCREW THEM
by the way.
Short of personal family of Bob Wills i'll brook no criticism,
nor stream any. no brooks no streams. no streaming books either, schillid.
always one.
jeeze louise.
A legacy experience baby.
i don't care if it sells out.
if keith gets hungry i'll FED EX him a that cow-potato thing he gets
his panties in a knot about. Before Ten AM baby.
plus chips, it's keith; i'm not gonna quibble.
tell the truth;
here we go; we've got to accept some deep fan leadership
i mean project some.
ready?
all together now, (not the dam beetle thing, More like 'we love you' but they
don't. and that's a writers professional skillsets, it's called ironing).
so let's project that good energy into the internatial community right now;
especially NA cause that's where the
Jungian slip there pay it no mind.
no mind no mind no mind.
i'm chanting.
no guru no method no teacher
no i'm not i'm listening to van the man...
whoa oh domino, roll me over Romeo,
....
.
...wait a dam minute here...wtf.
i suppose he slept with mick after bowie what the hell, people.
anyway.
yep.
stand up.
everybody.
all the men folk say uhhhh
come on i can't hear you.
say uhhhhh
uhhh
alright.
ladies your turn stand up
sssh
stand up.
no it's not an order.
no it's not hundreds of years of an insane patriarchy that have kept you down, it's a friggin' boogaloo opportunity.
no i didn't.
that's bullshit.
ok.
you first.
i'll be back...
tell the truth people.
let people know.
we don't care what it sounds like that's for other bands and SCREW THEM
by the way.
Short of personal family of Bob Wills i'll brook no criticism,
nor stream any. no brooks no streams. no streaming books either, schillid.
always one.
jeeze louise.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: February 26, 2019 00:39
wrong.
tell the truth hairball
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
CJFP
()
Date: February 26, 2019 04:49
So... let me get this straight, nothing new has come up in the past few weeks?
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 26, 2019 13:36
Quote
retired_dogQuote
Doxa
But some people here seem to have doomed the album before even hearing one song from it...
- Doxa
Not me, Doxa, not me. Far from it, although my little sketch above may indicate otherwise.
But I must admit that I'm also not free of any doubts concerning the new material because if they had good to great song material to start with, would all this obvious second or even third guessing be necessary? Recording, re-recording, countless different mixes...
Haha, wasn't particularly thinking of you... Yep, there is a good chance that they are desperatively thick head-like trying to make something out of second-rate material. But then again, that of not rejecting the songs, if they doesn't seem to work, might also indicate that they believe on the material, and just want to make them perfect, no matter how many tries and takes it takes. As it looks like, Jagger (and probably him with Keith too) is constantly making new songs, so if that's the case, why to stick to old ones and instead try some new ones (which they might also do, of course)?
I think the problem with many of their recent albums, from STEEL WHEELS on actually, had been that of them being a bit too satisfied how the songs turn out to be by about first take when the backing track is laid. No matter how over-produced some of those songs sound like, there has been also the feeling that they still are sort of half-baked creatively (especially as a band effort). A poster named Bärs once aptly described that sounding like at the same time trying too much and too little... another positive sign for those afraid of Jagger's too big influence at the cost of Richards, is that most likely the new recorded material is rather far from the stage of Jagger's demos. That of re-recording them is a strong indication of that. Who knows, if we really try to make anti-Jagger clan a bit more non-fatal here, if that re-recording is really putting more Richards-influence on them. I think the problem Keith has have with Mick has not been Mick's songs per se, but how they would deliver/record them. Keith's influence is not just adding some licks on a demo, or even starting to write a song from a riff, but that of the whole group working the song together through, and see what happens. To my eyes the last feature has been the one Keith has been fighting for.
Think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 13:40 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: February 26, 2019 13:58
Quote
Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 14:00 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 26, 2019 14:14
I think you are right dutchman
Jeroen
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
stargroover
()
Date: February 26, 2019 14:29
Stick on Cross eyed heart really loud and smell the coffee.Keef rocks!
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 26, 2019 15:36
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
It could be as you describe very well. The bulk of song-writing has been left to shoulders of Mick a long time ago, and this I think what Keith has accepted as well, no matter what he comes across in his interviews (antennae's out all the time, three dynamite riffs, etc.). CROSSYED HEART was a result if he would have been left alone (with Jordan to kick a bit ass though), have all the time he needed, using ideas he has developed through the years, and little by little, through lazy sunday afternoon sessions, those would be worked into released form. Most likely Jagger with his limited attention span would never have patience to spar Keith there. Yep, most probably there are a few 'pure' Richards songs in the new recordings, songs he has accomplished with Jordan, then introduced to Mick to add his output (if the song is not a pure Richards ballad no needing Jagger touch).
But leaving the song-writing aside, and no matter if he is not kind of musical muscle he once was, I think that of the sessions taking longer as they were intially thought to take, even re-recording some material, that to me sounds like Keith having a rather strong say there. If it would be just up to Jagger, I believe the album would have been finished a long time ago. Some may interpret that as Keith just being a naysayer, but it could be as well that Mick also takes Keith's opinion seriously, especially if it is backed up by Don Was (or even by Universal people). Since there is no any urge (deadline) for the album to be finished, Jagger untypically is not rushing anything (and, in the end, The Rolling Stones is not just a Mick Jagger show). I think the general rule is: quicker the project takes, more Jagger dominated it is, and the longer it takes, more Richards influence there is.
With my proposal above, I didn't expect Keith being any huge musical dynamo he once was, but him just suggesting some minor things, such as tempo changes or brief arrangement ideas, but most of all: the whole band just playing the songs together through until capturing the right 'feel' there... No matter if he is a shadow of his former self, as long as Keith just is there doing his thing, that has a natural influence for the whole sound of the band. When the band shines, Keith shines... like they did in BLUE & LONESOME.
- Doxa
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 15:58 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 26, 2019 15:55
Good stuff Doxa.
Jeroen
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: February 26, 2019 16:19
I keep on spark of hope alive on why this album is taking forever. I do believe that Mick and Keith fully realize that this would be the last one; and no matter how much Jagger likes to scoff at the past, and the weight of history - it will always become the final statement. And Jagger if anything, knows the value of showmanship. So, this one has to count. No one can say that "Bigger Bang" really stood for anything. Had it been part of an earlier series of albums, it would always be regarded only as a time keeper release.
And it seems that they really have done some recording in the last years; but for these reasons mentioned here, they dismissed them, scrapped the lot.
Only Jagger nowadays has this kind of authority in the Stones camp. It has to have been his call. And maybe, this time he is biting the bullet and is paying attention to some outside ears. He is no fool: he knows that "Wandering Spirit" has been by far his best solo album. That "Blue & Lonesome" was a massive success. I hope he is taking heed that his best work comes when he is challenged. By a strong producer, and yes - by Keith and Ron.
And it seems that they really have done some recording in the last years; but for these reasons mentioned here, they dismissed them, scrapped the lot.
Only Jagger nowadays has this kind of authority in the Stones camp. It has to have been his call. And maybe, this time he is biting the bullet and is paying attention to some outside ears. He is no fool: he knows that "Wandering Spirit" has been by far his best solo album. That "Blue & Lonesome" was a massive success. I hope he is taking heed that his best work comes when he is challenged. By a strong producer, and yes - by Keith and Ron.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: February 26, 2019 16:44
Quote
DoxaQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Doxa
[think positive, man...
The thing is, we just don't know...
- Doxa
I'm afraid that Keith hasn't got the kind of muscle anymore to come up with strong musical ideas for 2 reasons:
1: He has done so much in the past, it's almost impossible to re-invent the wheel.
2:I can imagine he is retired but feels fine to tour every now and then. His "Stones-ego"- musical ambitions have gone, with the exception of some PR-talk to the press.
Keith leaves it to Jagger and he can live with that.
Actually point 1 and 2 are the same. This is as positive as Keith and I can be.
No matter if he is a shadow of his former self, as long as Keith just is there doing his thing, that has a natural influence for the whole sound of the band. When the band shines, Keith shines... like they did in BLUE & LONESOME.
- Doxa
That's correct of course.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: February 26, 2019 16:51
And, as evidence to me on Crosseyed Heart,
the beautiful timing of sounds / input/ just so’s in between
of Keith Richards (timing from God, 35love)
the beautiful timing of sounds / input/ just so’s in between
of Keith Richards (timing from God, 35love)
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: February 26, 2019 17:06
Yep,
If folks don't get and understand the difference Keith's unique touch and timing makes to any recorded or live performance ...they don't get the Rolling Stones.
If folks don't get and understand the difference Keith's unique touch and timing makes to any recorded or live performance ...they don't get the Rolling Stones.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:14
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:31
Quote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) were still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 20:55 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:36
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones where much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
Of course they were and that is clearly obvious, but I was mainly referring to songwriting, and mostly the post Brian era.
They could have let Ronnie in on the songwriting bubble more often to add some extra spice the last few decades,
but seems they're stuck in their ways of "Jagger/Richards" which at times sounds more like Jagger vs. Richards.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 20:38 by Hairball.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:39
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones where much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
For Gods sake, dont forget Stu.
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: February 26, 2019 20:42
Quote
runrudolphQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) were still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must be possible after 55+ years of existence.
For Gods sake, dont forget Stu.
Jeroen
Right. And Hopkins etc.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 26, 2019 21:31
I guess I'll just have to make my own "new" album...
STONES
NO FILTER
Just Your Fool
Rough Justice
Flip The Switch
Love Is Strong
Doom And Gloom
She Saw Me Coming
Jump On Top Of Me
Ride 'Em On Down
Thru And Thru
Low Down
Biggest Mistake
I Can't Quit You Baby
NO FILTER
Just Your Fool
Rough Justice
Flip The Switch
Love Is Strong
Doom And Gloom
She Saw Me Coming
Jump On Top Of Me
Ride 'Em On Down
Thru And Thru
Low Down
Biggest Mistake
I Can't Quit You Baby
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: February 26, 2019 22:12
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
Hairball
When the Stones shine Keith shines, and when Keith shines the Stones shine.
When the Stones shine Mick shines, and when Mick shines the Stones shine.
(quickly repeat both of the above 5 times in a row, and they eventually intermingle ha)
Can't really have one shining much brighter without the other and expect great Stones music (in most cases)- in other words two heads are better than one.
Of course they can shine on their own to varying degrees with their solo work, but for great Stones music both need to shine brightly as was the case in their glory years (again in most cases)- imo.
For me personally, I believe Keith shines quite brightly with all of his solo material, while with Mick sometimes it's just a dim bulb. Again imo, and not trying to re-ignite a war!
The Stones were much bigger than Keith and Mick only, especially when Taylor, Jones and Wyman (and Wood) where still in the band. Maybe the current line- up with all their guest players should think out of the box and blast out something that isn't strictly Keith-Jagger proof. Must possible after 55+ years of existence.
I think you guys don't recall the Keith quote I was referring to. It is from the early 70's - I guess around EXILE-era - in which Keith simply says "I shine when the band shines". In the same context he says that he doesn't give a damn about Eric Claptons or other shining lead guitarists, because 'none of those guys can keep that that rhythm down-down-down' (or something to the effect).
To me that's always been the philosophy of Keith Richards I admire most in him - he doesn't need to individually shine or to be distinguished, but when the band - or a song - as a whole shines he knows he is doing his job right. That's band leading (and musical directing) at best. That's also the reason I was (partly) moved by BLUE & LONESOME - the band sounding like one big organ, the whole being much more than the sum of its parts. Hadn't heard that for years if not even for decades. Keith was doing his part more than fine, and I am sure smiling all the way through the process. That's his Rolling Stones. If some of his hardcore fans here (no names) had entered to the studio to see them working on those blues covers and having asked 'hey Keef, why don't you play more solos or sing individually some song' he would most likely met with a death cold stare (if not a blade) with a reply 'man, you don't know a shit about me or The Rolling Stones. Listen @#$%& what we do now. I have not managed to make these guys sound so awesome for ages. This is what I do'.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 22:17 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: February 26, 2019 22:20
Keith is still a master craftsman. His musical philosophical needle really hasn't swayed very much since '63.
This Thread has been closed
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