Quote
Rocky Dijon
From what we've heard via Soldatti and what is logical to conclude...some of it sounds like vintage Stones, some of it sounds more like "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." The sessions have been an eclectic mix of styles like pretty much every Stones album.

[...]

That suggests pretty much every album in recent memory. The real question is if the songs are stronger and if the performances, arrangements, and production help bring the songs to life. It appears what is needed is for the band to reassemble in the studio to cut some of Mick and Keith's more recent material and see how it holds up against the stronger material that was set aside in 2016 and possibly some of the material from last year that we've heard nothing specific about yet.

Leaving wishful-thinking-based speculations aside, this sounds very realistic and however long it will still take them to finalise the album, this is possibly a good preview to what the album will be like, one way or other. Not that it were totally unexpected.

To wonder what the shelved songs might be (or would have been) like will keep us busy for the decade(s?) following the release.

Quote
Doxa
Rocky, please don't even try.
- Doxa

Well, Soldatti's updates are worthwhile. Yes, I know they wouldn't make up many pages if Bjornulf deleted everything but.

I look at it this way, we're approaching 180 pages of fans saying "I can't wait, I want it now, they'll never do it, they shouldn't do it."

It all points to the fact that there is still enthusiasm - even from the naysayers - to keep thinking about what several men in their seventies are capable of producing.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I look at it this way, we're approaching 180 pages of fans saying "I can't wait, I want it now, they'll never do it, they shouldn't do it."

It all points to the fact that there is still enthusiasm - even from the naysayers - to keep thinking about what several men in their seventies are capable of producing.

Yes seems most all of us are enthusiastic on one level or another and are having a good time with this thread.
And then there are the few (or the one) who finds this thread "totally a waste of time" and one can only wonder why they would waste their precious time even posting in this thread.
Maybe they would be better off writing another "exciting" list of all the Stones albums and what makes some better than others as they seem to think they have a better grasp of it all than anyone else.

Quote
KeithNacho
Any new music will be wellcome. Ronnie's and Keith's last solo works are very fine.

Absolutely, and if the Stones as a band cant't get it together and continue to "muddle" as Keith has stated, then solo albums would be more than welcome.
Keith and Ronnie solo albums yes please, another jazz album from Charlie can't hurt, and another Mick solo outing no thanks.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
Rocky Dijon
From what we've heard via Soldatti and what is logical to conclude...some of it sounds like vintage Stones, some of it sounds more like "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." The sessions have been an eclectic mix of styles like pretty much every Stones album.

[...]

That suggests pretty much every album in recent memory. The real question is if the songs are stronger and if the performances, arrangements, and production help bring the songs to life. It appears what is needed is for the band to reassemble in the studio to cut some of Mick and Keith's more recent material and see how it holds up against the stronger material that was set aside in 2016 and possibly some of the material from last year that we've heard nothing specific about yet.

Leaving wishful-thinking-based speculations aside, this sounds very realistic and however long it will still take them to finalise the album, this is possibly a good preview to what the album will be like, one way or other. Not that it were totally unexpected.

To wonder what the shelved songs might be (or would have been) like will keep us busy for the decade(s?) following the release.

Considering they have amassed quite a bit of material starting way back with Mick's 40 demos and Keith's three dynamite riffs, and now the possibility that some of the lesser material might have been shelved to make way for some future unwritten and/or unrecorded material, seems out of all of this there's bound to be something worthy if and when a studio album ever gets finished and released. From my perspective, if there are just two good songs on it then it will be a success, but of course there's always the hope there will be much more than that. Gotta have faith and keep the thread alive.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
... Mick's 40 demos and Keith's three dynamite riffs, ...

Hell, just imagine: what if the new album is finally released and there's only two dynamite riffs and noone knows what happened to the third one! It'll easily take us a 100 more pages (not) to find out ...

We probably have to buy the Japanes edition to get the third one.

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
Hairball
... Mick's 40 demos and Keith's three dynamite riffs, ...

Hell, just imagine: what if the new album is finally released and there's only two dynamite riffs and noone knows what happened to the third one! It'll easily take us a 100 more pages (not) to find out ...

The missing riff will magically appear on page 666 of this thread!!!




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

….hhhhheeeehhhheee you funny ...



ROCKMAN

Quote
Hairball

Quote
doitywoik

Quote
Rocky Dijon
From what we've heard via Soldatti and what is logical to conclude...some of it sounds like vintage Stones, some of it sounds more like "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." The sessions have been an eclectic mix of styles like pretty much every Stones album.

[...]

That suggests pretty much every album in recent memory. The real question is if the songs are stronger and if the performances, arrangements, and production help bring the songs to life. It appears what is needed is for the band to reassemble in the studio to cut some of Mick and Keith's more recent material and see how it holds up against the stronger material that was set aside in 2016 and possibly some of the material from last year that we've heard nothing specific about yet.

Leaving wishful-thinking-based speculations aside, this sounds very realistic and however long it will still take them to finalise the album, this is possibly a good preview to what the album will be like, one way or other. Not that it were totally unexpected.

To wonder what the shelved songs might be (or would have been) like will keep us busy for the decade(s?) following the release.

Considering they have amassed quite a bit of material starting way back with Mick's 40 demos and Keith's three dynamite riffs, and now the possibility that some of the lesser material might have been shelved to make way for some future unwritten and/or unrecorded material, seems out of all of this there's bound to be something worthy if and when a studio album ever gets finished and released. From my perspective, if there are just two good songs on it then it will be a success, but of course there's always the hope there will be much more than that. Gotta have faith and keep the thread alive.

____________________________________


Yes .. my guess is that they will have a <LOAD> of material to choose selections from. As you noted .. there just seems to be so much ... Hopefully they pick the right batch to sculpt.


However unlike you ...I am a fan of their later works.. Not a huge fan of Steel Wheels though.

Quote
Ian Billen
Not a huge fan of Steel Wheels

I think Steel Wheels has some decent tracks on it, though the production leaves a bit to be desired on most of it:

Slipping Away, Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Can't Be Seen - pretty good tunes IMO.

PS - Here's the superior (IMO) alternate version of Almost Hear You Sigh with Keith on vocals:
Almost Hear You Sigh (Keith on vocals)




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-04 04:13 by Hairball.

In comic art, before computers took over the industry, one guy penciled and another guy inked and another guy colored. The result was loved by kids of all ages.

Generally speaking, Keith delivers sketches of songs. He's penciling. Mick used to take Keith's pencils and ink them. Then their bandmates or various session men would add coloring. The result is generally where most of their best loved work comes from.

In more recent decades, Mick grew tired of inking Keith's sketches because Keith wasn't very prolific and would spend many months doodling before delivering a set of pencils that were worth inking. Mick liked the idea of penciling himself and using the guy who added color to come along and help him pencil and ink. The result resembled Keith's sketches but it was never quite the same.

A very good review of TALK IS CHEAP in Rolling Stone by David Fricke stated, "if Jagger and Richards have learned anything from each other's records, it's probably that their greatest assets are each other."

The pictures have never been as good since then that's for certain.

....if only ALO or someone could lock them in that room again ...



ROCKMAN

Quote
Hairball

Quote
Ian Billen
Not a huge fan of Steel Wheels

I think Steel Wheels has some decent tracks on it, though the production leaves a bit to be desired on most of it:

Slipping Away, Terrifying, Almost Hear You Sigh, Can't Be Seen - pretty good tunes IMO.

PS - Here's the superior (IMO) alternate version of Almost Hear You Sigh with Keith on vocals:
Almost Hear You Sigh (Keith on vocals)

________________________________________


The production on Steel Wheels was too 'slick' .. Sure.. it was the late 80's
but it was still a tad tool slick and weak IMO. Songs were fair to a few good ones.. Nothing spectacular. Luke Warm release IMO..

Rock & A Hard Place was the strongest track IMO.


The Steel Wheels 'album' was a sound track to go along with a monumental / monster tour .. as opposed to it being an album or great product in itself is how I always viewed The Steel Wheels album.

You are a Keith Version Fan of Almost Hear You Sigh .. I prefer Mick on Vox.
I will agree that AHYS is of the top three strongest tracks on the Steel Wheels album.

Rock in a Hard Place ... Mixed Emotions (though weak and poppy .. still is catchy and strong enough to be a single ..and it was).. Almost Hear Your Sigh.

Voodoo Lounge had 'miles away' better Stones songs and better production all the way around.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-04 07:18 by IanBillen.

Quote
Ian Billen
Voodoo Lounge had 'miles away' better Stones songs and better production all the way around.

I'll take your word for it and trust your opinion Ian as I'm in no mood to start comparing albums from what I consider the bands weakest period.
All I can say is that every album from Undercover forward does have some redeeming qualities (aka decent songs) on them, but other than that I can't really add much else.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Quote
Ian Billen
Voodoo Lounge had 'miles away' better Stones songs and better production all the way around.

I'll take your word for it and trust your opinion Ian as I'm in no mood to start comparing albums from what I consider the bands weakest period.
All I can say is that every album from Undercover forward does have some redeeming qualities (aka decent songs) on them, but other than that I can't really add much else.

_________________________________________



You are an easy bloke to get on with here. You and Rocky .. Soldatti / Georgelicks .. make things worth wild even when in not 100% agreement. I guess ole Bv isn't half bad either (> /jk ha ).

I cannot forget Gazza ..from my homeland (rocksoff)... He's the real deal. He also stops in here as well at times.


I think you and I would agree that their strongest period .. is certainly the big 4 (BB, LIB, SF, & EOMS). That run is probably the strongest run of back to back albums in that league of any group / act in history. It encompasses R&R as what it is and what came after .. It is the basis for all of that IMO.

Now back to this new one. The Stones and their camp realize this next studio album means the difference of them being viable .. or simply a nostalgia act.

They need something to put them back on the map studio wise .. Something very strong. Sure.. you probably think they have been a nostalgia act since Steel Wheels or not long there after? However delivering an outstanding album is really needed for people to continue to give them cred. IMO. Something they can play three (other nights even four) songs a night from ..

I dont think they should tour again in the States without a new album of originals .. I've no interest in seeing them w/o something more to go on.
They need something seriously good studio wise to revive their viability IMO.

Sure.. they wont get played on the top 40 these days (what rock act does?) ..
but something the rock and at least alternative rock world takes note of and buys... Something that makes critics rate it with their best stuff. Sure..
thats asking loads for a bunch of guys at this stage in their career and considering their best work was arguably as good as any acts in history ..

BUT .. they can deliver and album that is seriously good .. and beyond Steel Wheels ... Voodoo Lounge.. BTB ... ABB ... even DW and UC. Something that has staying power and rightfully in the top tier of their output. If they can do that .. they would revive their perception IMO

Quote
Rocky Dijon
In comic art, before computers took over the industry, one guy penciled and another guy inked and another guy colored. The result was loved by kids of all ages.

Generally speaking, Keith delivers sketches of songs. He's penciling. Mick used to take Keith's pencils and ink them. Then their bandmates or various session men would add coloring. The result is generally where most of their best loved work comes from.

In more recent decades, Mick grew tired of inking Keith's sketches because Keith wasn't very prolific and would spend many months doodling before delivering a set of pencils that were worth inking. Mick liked the idea of penciling himself and using the guy who added color to come along and help him pencil and ink. The result resembled Keith's sketches but it was never quite the same.

A very good review of TALK IS CHEAP in Rolling Stone by David Fricke stated, "if Jagger and Richards have learned anything from each other's records, it's probably that their greatest assets are each other."

The pictures have never been as good since then that's for certain.

How are we to read the sentence in bold, I wonder:

Not as good as (considered for their songs within the same time period)? Or only as different somehow?

How it was intended to be read is "similar to the familiar identity, but not quite as good or somehow lacking in magic."

I'm not anti-Mick. I feel the same way about Keith's unfinished sketches. I find much to enjoy in their post-1981 catalog and their solo efforts, but both would benefit from a rekindling of the Jagger-Richards partnership. Hopefully that is what has been happening over the past two years in fits and starts to the extent they are able and willing.

Quote
Rockman
....if only ALO or someone could lock them in that room again ...

Is that room still available?

It's on the ocean, I guess you know it well

Quote
Rocky Dijon
How it was intended to be read is "similar to the familiar identity, but not quite as good or somehow lacking in magic."

I'm not anti-Mick. I feel the same way about Keith's unfinished sketches. I find much to enjoy in their post-1981 catalog and their solo efforts, but both would benefit from a rekindling of the Jagger-Richards partnership. Hopefully that is what has been happening over the past two years in fits and starts to the extent they are able and willing.

Myself I often am not able to state with certainty, which one of them is the originator of songs. Far less than many posters, I have to admit. When it is more obvious, it does not belong to me to judge, whose songs are the best. But to my prefences it seems that Mick's songs or song ideas of the latest decades tend to be more attractive and interesting to me.

Well when we "hear" whose song it is originally, it's either guess-work or based on remarks in interviews.

I like a lot of what Mick does for the Stones or solo, but I think they would be better songs if he worked them up with Keith instead of Matt (or previously, Dave Stewart) and then handed the song to Keith to let him add his signature sound to it or take the odd advice from him like adding a descending melody line.

I like a lot of what Keith does for the Stones or solo, but I think they would be better songs if he worked them up with Mick instead of Steve Jordan (or on his own) since many of them are unpolished at best or unfinished at worst.

I understand their working methods changed drastically and, along with their personalities and social circles, it appears they are largely incompatible. I understand Keith's preference for many years is write material that is less commercial and more avant-garde roots music that it is less likely to appeal to Mick.

Like many partners, they grew apart but stayed together. The result is they continued to grow further apart.

For me, that's the missing ingredient that, if rekindled, would make the new studio album something special. I have no illusions of it being as great as The Big Four or SOME GIRLS or TATTOO YOU. I just want a set of songs that make me say, this is how strong they still were right up to the end.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
In comic art, before computers took over the industry, one guy penciled and another guy inked and another guy colored. The result was loved by kids of all ages.

Generally speaking, Keith delivers sketches of songs. He's penciling. Mick used to take Keith's pencils and ink them. Then their bandmates or various session men would add coloring. The result is generally where most of their best loved work comes from.

I like the remarks on comics (I hate computer-pencilled and coloured comics) and I also find the Stones analogy quite adequate. In fact, the Stones themselves (OK, mainly Keith) have hinted at some such procedure in interviews over the decades. Another difference in then-vs.-now appears to be that in earlier days, also Keith made something out of Mick's sketches every once in a while (again remembering interviews, I've never been in the studio with them, of course). That appears to be different now. It seems like Mick prefers to work on his drafts with other people despite Keith shouting out in the press that he would like to work with Mick (for what it's worth ...).

My impression of the divisive factor between them is that Keith during the later decades wants to create music that largely exists within the scopes for what Rolling Stones music developed to comprise during the preceding decades. In contrast, commercial or not commercial, that Mick wants to stretch those boundaries.

What is more commercially directed then, I don't know. But as Stones fans seem to prefer established styles of Rolling Stones music, I guess that Keith's musical ideas function somewhat more commercial with regulær buyers of Stones music.

Quote
Witness
My impression of the divisive factor between them is that Keith during the later decades wants to create music that largely exists within the scopes for what Rolling Stones music developed to comprise during the preceding decades. In contrast, commercial or not commercial, that Mick wants to stretch those boundaries.

What is more commercially directed then, I don't know. But as Stones fans seem to prefer established styles of Rolling Stones music, I guess that Keith's musical ideas function somewhat more commercial with regulær buyers of Stones music.

_________________________________



Keith always waited for something to unfold as being 'different' if it came to that from their standard stuff / basis where as Mick has actually went in aiming for it .. especially Mick has much did this every other or every few albums since the late 70's.


Keith is less open minded .. much less than for predetermining or going in with a goal to do something different it seems (especially from the mid to late 80's and on).

Keith used to experiment a bit more than Mick in the 60's one might say. Now it is the other way around.

This time the key is to compromise or have everyone on board with the best possible route to take with this stuff. At least that is how we got it from Soldatti a while back.


- Ian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-05 00:35 by IanBillen.

Quote
IanBillen

This time the key is to compromise or have everyone on board with the best possible route to take with this stuff. At least that is how we got it from Soldatti a while back.

Yes, but the album is not a priority for them, it will get done eventually but no one is losing any sleep over it, the general public could care less about a new Stones album, the band won't tour behind any new stuff either.

Blue and Lonesome was a surprise hit on physical sales, it was released during Christmas time and many people bought it as gift, also a covers album has more potential audience out there than an album of new material, but neither the band or Universal will milk that cow again so soon, the album is still a steady catalog seller, about 3-5k worldwide each week, that's more than any of their studio albums and more than any of their albums except Hot Rocks or Jump Back.

After the tour, they will take 3-4 months off at least, after that some studio time is booked, but touring is always the #1 priority (after family of course), any studio activity will get postponed if they want to tour again.

Universal's $2 million advance for a new album in 2017 has no deadline on it, just like Virgin's 3 albums deal from 1991, so the new album could be done in 2019 or 2020.

One thing is sure, some people here (not many actually) is more anxious about a new album than the Stones themselves, after 56+ years, 25 studio albums and a catalog of over 400 recorded songs, any new stuff from them is a bonus.

Quote
georgelicks

Quote
IanBillen

This time the key is to compromise or have everyone on board with the best possible route to take with this stuff. At least that is how we got it from Soldatti a while back.

Yes, but the album is not a priority for them, it will get done eventually but no one is losing any sleep over it, the general public could care less about a new Stones album, the band won't tour behind any new stuff either.

Blue and Lonesome was a surprise hit on physical sales, it was released during Christmas time and many people bought it as gift, also a covers album has more potential audience out there than an album of new material, but neither the band or Universal will milk that cow again so soon, the album is still a steady catalog seller, about 3-5k worldwide each week, that's more than any of their studio albums and more than any of their albums except Hot Rocks or Jump Back.

After the tour, they will take 3-4 months off at least, after that some studio time is booked, but touring is always the #1 priority (after family of course), any studio activity will get postponed if they want to tour again.

Universal's $2 million advance for a new album in 2017 has no deadline on it, just like Virgin's 3 albums deal from 1991, so the new album could be done in 2019 or 2020.

One thing is sure, some people here (not many actually) is more anxious about a new album than the Stones themselves, after 56+ years, 25 studio albums and a catalog of over 400 recorded songs, any new stuff from them is a bonus.

________________________________________________________


Right .. I get that but I think The Stones have lost sight of how to act like a current .. viable band ... yet they like to act as if they carry on as a band.


Touring is such a bigger ordeal and undertaking than recording .. It makes me wonder?

And please Mr. Georgelicks .. The family time thing again come on.

Nobody is concerned about their family time shortage when it comes to touring (which is loads harder on that). I didn't hear a peep about lack of family time for touring over the next few months in the UK? It's a nice excuse for fans when it fits ..when it doesn't nobody says a word or cares (neither do they ..bc they have more time for their families than most of us during their off time.. or when they tour ..they take them many times lol).

Whether they record or not .. they have plenty of family time. I cant buy that as a possible block for studio time. All these other acts have families .. and they put out albums just fine. Has nothing to do with that.. and everything to do with lack of passion for creating a special studio product.


Wait a min .. did I read "2020"? ...


Why stop there my friend .. why not say 2025. After all.. they are only 75 and havent put out a new albumin 13-14 years


I get what you are saying though and I appreciate your updates. Hell Imore than appreciate them .. I (we) live for em at times! Rock on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-05 01:49 by IanBillen.

There were various hints of a possible return to the States from several people a couple months back, and wondering if there's any indications if that possibility is picking up momentum to becoming a reality. With the rave reviews the current tour is getting playing their oldies (along with the TON of money they're making) seems only natural they would return sooner rather than later, ie before a new album ever gets finished. But of course that would be after the post tour break - family time, vacation, and all their other priorities (Charlie's horses for example). Glad to know they have more studio time booked, and hopefully they can go beyond "muddling". Looks like 2020 after all, but you never know...maybe they'll hit a massive creative streak and release two albums before then.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Witness
My impression of the divisive factor between them is that Keith during the later decades wants to create music that largely exists within the scopes for what Rolling Stones music developed to comprise during the preceding decades. In contrast, commercial or not commercial, that Mick wants to stretch those boundaries.

What is more commercially directed then, I don't know. But as Stones fans seem to prefer established styles of Rolling Stones music, I guess that Keith's musical ideas function somewhat more commercial with regulær buyers of Stones music.

At least Mick said expressedly that he wants to take the Stones into a new direction. What Keith wants is less clear, it seems, other than he wanted something of the B&L spirit to pass over to the new album (what he really had in mind here he never made precise, so far as I know). Mick is certainly the man with the plan, Keith less so. It may well be that Keith's approach yielded results that function better with the bulk of regular Stones consumers - provided the songs sound sufficiently different from one another and don't come across as just another bunch according to the formula. For Mick (if assuming he has in mind stuff like GGAG and EL) - honestly speaking, I don't know to what customer group/group of CD-buyers that might appeal, simply not my scene, so I can't offer any judgement here other than they won't the people who want "classic" Stones.

Interpreting things now a good deal, it seems a bit like Keith would like to do it like the old days again and ist struggling with the fact that things don't work like this anymore.

Quote
Hairball
Glad to know they have more studio time booked, and hopefully they can go beyond "muddling". Looks like 2020 after all, but you never know...maybe they'll hit a massive creative streak and release two albums before then.

Is the "more studio time booked" thing based on a recent, fresh (piece of) interview (that I missed)?

As for the two albums, depending on how productive the sessions hitherto really were, there is possibly already enough material there for that. Would be arlight with me. A massive creative streak would be welcomed by everyone, I think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-05 03:10 by doitywoik.

Quote
Hairball
Looks like 2020 after all, but you never know...maybe they'll hit a massive creative streak and release two albums before then.

"When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

People wish for another Andrew Loog Oldham like when they were 20 years old, all they need is Ian for a producer.

He'd lock them in a bunker. No cell phones or laptops. No contact with the outside world. Ian would teach them about elder care abuse like a toothless bearded hag as he tells them to shut up about babies and grandchildren and great-grandchildren. "Work, damn you or none of you will make it to eighty!" Ian shouts cracking the whip like they used to do just around midnight. "I don't have time for Keith's arthritis, Charlie's bad back, Mick's knee, or any paltry health scares. You're making an album and no one gets fed until I hear a take I like!"

Kick 'em like you kicked before, Ian. They can't even feel the pain no more.