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Stoneage

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Rocky Dijon

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ouroux58
If Jagger stopped thinking to have a hit (it's over), and records albums just for fun, people would understand that. He is obsessed with success ..

Agreed. What he should really do is record an album of old blues numbers where he can return to his roots, belt out the sort of songs that inspired him in the first place, and play blues harp better than almost anyone.

Of course, Mick would never do that.

Haven't they already done that? I mean "Blue and Lonesome". Or do you want a B&L II?

Good ol' irony, my friend. It was big in the 90s

Not fair, Bard. Unlike Alanis, I knew what the word meant.

1963 - 1967: early Stones
1968 - 1974: prime Stones
1975 - 1982: mature Stones
1983 - 1991: late period Stones
1994 - present: latter day Stones (i.e., recent)

You can't measure time later in life the same way as earlier, because changes are more rapid in younger days.

When you're a child, a month is forever.

When you're a teen, you can't imagine being 30.

When you're 20, you think you'll live forever.

Between 20 and 40 is a lifetime.

Between 40 and 60 seems only like days.

In Stones time, between 1964 and 1978 is a cultural legacy.

Between 2005 and 2019 is just an afterthought.

An extra layer of icing on a cake that's already been baked.

"And how the years they rush on by / birthdays, kids, and suicides..."

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bitusa2012

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lem motlow
The recording part of the Stones career is over and I think it’s probably best to just accept it. Voodoo Lounge? Bridges to Babylon?
Steel Wheels will be 30 next year,that’s a long time in the music biz,if their music was only what they’ve done since then how good would you think they really are? Because that IS who they are now.

Yet A GREAT double album can be made out of Steel Wheels thru to A Bigger Bang - I'd go with these 14 tracks - in the order I have this on a playlist:

It Won't Take Long
Love is Strong
Out of Control
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Already Over Me
Mixed Emotions
Almost Hear you Sigh
Break the Spell
I Go Wild
Thru and Thru
Out of Tears
Thief in the Night
Saint of Me
I Don't Wanna go Home

Bonus Tracks (if finished off)
Dreams
Cried Out
U Don't Wanna

There is not a great song on that list.gimme shelter is a great song,Jumpin jack Flash is a great song.the songs above are good songs but if this was their entire output it would result in a career on the Indian casino circuit with Matchbook 20 and the Goo Goo Dolls.

Post-TATTOO YOU are for the faithful to enjoy (or not). Most other fans were content to just by a concert ticket to hear the hits and say they saw them.

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lem motlow

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bitusa2012

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lem motlow
The recording part of the Stones career is over and I think it’s probably best to just accept it. Voodoo Lounge? Bridges to Babylon?
Steel Wheels will be 30 next year,that’s a long time in the music biz,if their music was only what they’ve done since then how good would you think they really are? Because that IS who they are now.

Yet A GREAT double album can be made out of Steel Wheels thru to A Bigger Bang - I'd go with these 14 tracks - in the order I have this on a playlist:

It Won't Take Long
Love is Strong
Out of Control
Laugh, I Nearly Died
Already Over Me
Mixed Emotions
Almost Hear you Sigh
Break the Spell
I Go Wild
Thru and Thru
Out of Tears
Thief in the Night
Saint of Me
I Don't Wanna go Home

Bonus Tracks (if finished off)
Dreams
Cried Out
U Don't Wanna

There is not a great song on that list.gimme shelter is a great song,Jumpin jack Flash is a great song.the songs above are good songs but if this was their entire output it would result in a career on the Indian casino circuit with Matchbook 20 and the Goo Goo Dolls.

__________________________________________



I disagree .. Love Is Strong is a 'great' song -

I'm pretty sure lem's definition of greatness is something like a song that stands the test of time, is instantly recognizable from being part of the soundtrack of several generation's lives, defines its original era even decades after the fact, and is one of the songs the general public immediately thinks of one when they think of the band. In other words, what seems like "a timeless classic" after nearly half a century.

You may indeed hold "Love is Strong" in high regard, but it is only well known to the Faithful. It's a bit like most fans only really like a handful of songs on A BIGGER BANG, but they rarely agree on which songs are the handful that are good. After TATTOO YOU, the band's output no longer stood the test of time. That doesn't necessarily mean it's of poor quality, but it no longer reached the general public as they previously did. It's music for the Devoted who buy everything.

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Rocky Dijon
I'm pretty sure lem's definition of greatness is something like a song that stands the test of time, is instantly recognizable from being part of the soundtrack of several generation's lives, defines its original era even decades after the fact, and is one of the songs the general public immediately thinks of one when they think of the band. In other words, what seems like "a timeless classic" after nearly half a century.

You may indeed hold "Love is Strong" in high regard, but it is only well known to the Faithful. It's a bit like most fans only really like a handful of songs on A BIGGER BANG, but they rarely agree on which songs are the handful that are good. After TATTOO YOU, the band's output no longer stood the test of time. That doesn't necessarily mean it's of poor quality, but it no longer reached the general public as they previously did. It's music for the Devoted who buy everything.

_________________________________________



Well .. What you are describing are 'classics' my Kat.


IMO there are good songs .. and then there are great songs .. and then there are ... 'the classics' ... Perhaps even a category as 'eternal classics'.


Love Is Strong is their best single / song since Start Me Up.

Is it a classic like say JJF or HTW ... or SMU or songs as that ..? >> Well no Lol (not even by a long shot). Anyone who argues that does not know rock music. However LIS is one of my favorite Rolling Stones songs .. period and IMO it is a great song.

Dark .. Seductive .. Groovy. They took the blue chords and a song to a new place. It's the only song in their catalog like it. It's quality .. and it's serious.


Hairball better not jump in and disagree with me today either (I had it with his a** lately.. All I get / read in magazines is bad (lame) news from the Stones on the progress of the next album .. I'm partly blaming him for that).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 04:29 by IanBillen.

Love is Strong is not a bad song, and I liked it when it first came out. Not really great, but not really bad either!
I don't like the whispery singing parts from Mick, but when he belts it out and lets it loose there's hints of classic greatness there.
In the context of latter day Stones it's a keeper, and better than anything on Bridges, better than the new tunes on 40 Licks, better than everything on ABB, and better than the new tunes on GRRRR.
Maybe their last good original tune, and they should play it live again.

The offical video is even better than the song though!

The Rolling Stones - Love Is Strong




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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 04:53 by Hairball.

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Hairball
Love is Strong is not a bad song, and I liked it when it first came out. Not really great, but not really bad either!
I don't like the whispery singing parts from Mick, but when he belts it out and lets it loose there's hints of classic greatness there.
In the context of latter day Stones it's a keeper, and better than anything on Bridges, better than the new tunes on 40 Licks, better than everything on ABB, and better than the new tunes on GRRRR.
Maybe their last good original tune, and they should play it live again.

The offical video is even better than the song though!

The Rolling Stones - Love Is Strong

__________________________________


You have redeemed yourself ( ... Bahahaha). I must admit ... What would a quality convo between Rock and I be without your input.. & You're right .. The video was so great .. I remember the first time I heard the song. It was a song that stayed strong (some pun) all through that summer and fall on Rock Radio.


Was different .. seductive .. chilling .. rich. Love it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 05:10 by IanBillen.

Cheers Ian.

Also, I'll amend my last comment where I said "Maybe their last good original tune".
Not true as I also like Saint of Me from Bridges, and Rain Fall Down from ABB, but I do think Love is Strong is probably the stronger of them.
But for me, trying to pick the best songs from the latter era is like going through a giant bag of really old potatoes and trying to find the ones that are the least rotten.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Rocky Dijon
I'm pretty sure lem's definition of greatness is something like a song that stands the test of time, is instantly recognizable from being part of the soundtrack of several generation's lives, defines its original era even decades after the fact, and is one of the songs the general public immediately thinks of one when they think of the band. In other words, what seems like "a timeless classic" after nearly half a century.

You may indeed hold "Love is Strong" in high regard, but it is only well known to the Faithful. It's a bit like most fans only really like a handful of songs on A BIGGER BANG, but they rarely agree on which songs are the handful that are good. After TATTOO YOU, the band's output no longer stood the test of time. That doesn't necessarily mean it's of poor quality, but it no longer reached the general public as they previously did. It's music for the Devoted who buy everything.

Even with Tattoo You, the only song that had a larger general impact was SMU as a single but not anything from the rest of the album. If it's for classics as you defined them above, after Exile (which to me is a classic rather as a whole, not so much in terms of [the] individual songs), there is only Angie from Goats, Miss You from Some Girls, and then Start Me Up. If we're honest, Nothing from IORR, nothing from B&B, nothing from ER. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not talking about favourites among fans but songs that also mean/meant something to people who weren't Stones fans in the strict sense. No album after Exile can still be said to "define its original era even decades after the fact". This doesn't mean that, say, Some Girls or Tattoo You are bad albums, it just says the no longer can be attributed the same status as e.g. Sticky or Exile.

Fair enough, but there's a world of a difference between recognizable greatest hits (irritatingly referred to as War Horses since 2002 by the devout fans) and saying these post-1981 songs are great because I like them. I fully understand Ian saying "Love is Strong" is a personal favorite and thinking it's an underrated song, but I could say the same about "Out of Tears" or argue it for an album track like "Moon is Up." They're not part of the public's collective consciousness. They're not in radio airplay rotation. They're not requested when fans vote for songs. They may be very good songs, but they're obscure. The only post-1981 single that isn't obscure would be "You Got Me Rocking" and maybe a case can be made for "Out of Control" only because they actually bother to play them with something approaching regularity.

Actually, upon consideration, I'll still say SOME GIRLS defined its era then and now. "Miss You" and "Beast of Burden" are still in very regular airplay on radio stations. That said, I think we agree more than not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 07:07 by Rocky Dijon.

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Hairball

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KeithNacho
14 years of waiting. The same period from the beginning to some girls

And coincidentally, that nearly coincides with the year I was born to when I was 15 - ALOT happened in that time frame I tell ya!
And if we look back at 2005 when ABB was released, it amost seems like ancient history - George W was still president and Tony Blair was still PM.
And imagine, 14 years...that's twice as long as the Beatles entire recording career!!!

All this chatter really is irrelevant.

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MKjan

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Hairball

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KeithNacho
14 years of waiting. The same period from the beginning to some girls

And coincidentally, that nearly coincides with the year I was born to when I was 15 - ALOT happened in that time frame I tell ya!
And if we look back at 2005 when ABB was released, it amost seems like ancient history - George W was still president and Tony Blair was still PM.
And imagine, 14 years...that's twice as long as the Beatles entire recording career!!!

All this chatter really is irrelevant.

Let us know then when you have something relevant to add - this thread is in sore need of relevancy!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 07:59 by Hairball.

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MKjan

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Hairball

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KeithNacho
14 years of waiting. The same period from the beginning to some girls

And coincidentally, that nearly coincides with the year I was born to when I was 15 - ALOT happened in that time frame I tell ya!
And if we look back at 2005 when ABB was released, it amost seems like ancient history - George W was still president and Tony Blair was still PM.
And imagine, 14 years...that's twice as long as the Beatles entire recording career!!!

All this chatter really is irrelevant.

So what?!

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Rocky Dijon
Fair enough, but there's a world of a difference between recognizable greatest hits (irritatingly referred to as War Horses since 2002 by the devout fans) and saying these post-1981 songs are great because I like them. I fully understand Ian saying "Love is Strong" is a personal favorite and thinking it's an underrated song, but I could say the same about "Out of Tears" or argue it for an album track like "Moon is Up." They're not part of the public's collective consciousness. They're not in radio airplay rotation. They're not requested when fans vote for songs. They may be very good songs, but they're obscure. The only post-1981 single that isn't obscure would be "You Got Me Rocking" and maybe a case can be made for "Out of Control" only because they actually bother to play them with something approaching regularity.

Actually, upon consideration, I'll still say SOME GIRLS defined its era then and now. "Miss You" and "Beast of Burden" are still in very regular airplay on radio stations. That said, I think we agree more than not.

A good deal of the judgements here will also depend on where one grew up, where one lives. Regarding Angie, I think it's fair to say that all over the world several generations of people danced tight to that song and possibly went into some dirty work afterwards, the song is an integral part of the 70s and 70s culture (at least in Europe). As for me, this goes far beyond merely being a hit. Miss You certainly doesn't have the same status but was a regular in discotheques far into the 80s and sooner or later pops up too if it's about 70s disco music. In my generation you'll find a lot of people for whom the Stones are Sactisfaction, HTW, Angie and MU. This might be different in other areas. So far as I can tell, Beast Of Burden never played a role really in the German-speaking area. The song was not played in dancing places or on the radio. Some Girls as an album was too far away from the classic Stones for "regular" folks or "old" fans and ridiculed by the punks. On the whole, it was not an album anyone really talked about apart from fans. As I said earlier, a few weeks after SG came out shops started selling it off at half the price over here, which is telling in itself. If being cynical, one might say it's the first album where the Stones had to react to the pressure coming from the next generation, when they (like other "old" bands) were no longer trendsetters or natural top dogs but had to prove they could still keep up with the young ones - and didn't do too bad a job at that.
ER came at a funny time insofar as when it came out, punk was effectively over and 80s electropop had not yet fully begun, and most of the old prog groups tried to get into AOR, some sort of intermediate phase. But the Stones didn't have anything substantial to offer to fill the gap (in Europe, in contrast to e.g. the Dire Straits). Emotional Rescue (the song) tried to ride the disco train some more, appalled the old fans, was ridiculed by the disco folk because of Jaggers eunuch singing, enjoyed a brief stay on the playlists and then sank without much of a trace. The album has great moments though, e.g. Down In The Hole.
By the time SMU came out, the song was actually an anachronism but apparently one the world was waiting for, which also says a thing or two about the world ... I believe the success of SMU not only has to do with the catchy riff but also with the fact that at that time, many songs had overblown arrangements, electropop was gaining more ground, and established groups or artists were becoming too adult - and here you had a forceful song played by real people on real instruments. Personally I find Slave a much better song than SMU but that's of no relevance here. By the time of the 81/82 tour the Stones already counted as dinoaurs belonging to a bygone era but they knew how to put on an great live show.
And then, that was that. Where I was living, Undercover was released almost in camera. The song Undercover (of the Night) got next to no airplay and wasn't played in the dance clubs either (except maybe once). Dirty Work (the album) did better and was seen as the Stones returning to their old form after the lacklustre Undercover. Harlem Shuffle even was a minor hit, got some airplay (still does), and was also regularly played at the dance clubs. I wasn't sure if it was a perfect single back then but it somehow fitted the times (and was far better than anything on Undercover). Had they been in the shape to tour the album, it might have been a great tour (or at least an interesting one, and perhaps the last tour not to be merely a greatest hits show).
89 and onwards is a different stoy.

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doitywoik

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Rocky Dijon
I'm pretty sure lem's definition of greatness is something like a song that stands the test of time, is instantly recognizable from being part of the soundtrack of several generation's lives, defines its original era even decades after the fact, and is one of the songs the general public immediately thinks of one when they think of the band. In other words, what seems like "a timeless classic" after nearly half a century.

You may indeed hold "Love is Strong" in high regard, but it is only well known to the Faithful. It's a bit like most fans only really like a handful of songs on A BIGGER BANG, but they rarely agree on which songs are the handful that are good. After TATTOO YOU, the band's output no longer stood the test of time. That doesn't necessarily mean it's of poor quality, but it no longer reached the general public as they previously did. It's music for the Devoted who buy everything.

Even with Tattoo You, the only song that had a larger general impact was SMU as a single but not anything from the rest of the album. If it's for classics as you defined them above, after Exile (which to me is a classic rather as a whole, not so much in terms of [the] individual songs), there is only Angie from Goats, Miss You from Some Girls, and then Start Me Up. If we're honest, Nothing from IORR, nothing from B&B, nothing from ER. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not talking about favourites among fans but songs that also mean/meant something to people who weren't Stones fans in the strict sense. No album after Exile can still be said to "define its original era even decades after the fact". This doesn't mean that, say, Some Girls or Tattoo You are bad albums, it just says the no longer can be attributed the same status as e.g. Sticky or Exile.

By the way, there is another song from TATTOO YOU, that maybe not the large majority knows now, but which the Stones by featuring it in setlists anew, would be able to cultivate to become a popular song with the masses and, I wonder, maybe with a potential for a new warhorse. Even I, who, in contrast to almost everybody else apparently, don't particularly like the album (or "Start Me Up"), still do love one song, that song. Possibly due to certain qualities of the song that I experience, but can't find words to describe. One song with a lyrics and with a feeling many listeners probably will easily identify with. Therefore may have an immediate appeal. Even more now than when it featured in setlists.

Which song? "Waiting on a Friend"

Don't forget when Undercover came out, MTV became bigger and bigger and it was more important that your video was aired a lot and I think this was the case with the Undercover video. I saw it all the time on TV in the Netherlands . So maybe airplay on radiostations switched to getting your video aired on MTV.

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doitywoik
A good deal of the judgements here will also depend on where one grew up, where one lives....

That is very true and my posts on IORR are certainly colored by an American perspective.

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Rocky Dijon

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doitywoik
A good deal of the judgements here will also depend on where one grew up, where one lives....

That is very true and my posts on IORR are certainly colored by an American perspective.

I wouldn’t want to be without your views though.

JumpingKentFlash

Right, and that's one of the reasons why I said it depends very much were you grew up or live(d). MTV became available in European countries at very different times. In Austria and Switzerland, for example, MTV was available only from 1993 on. I tried to retrieve the dates for other European countries but neither the net nor Wikipedia is of much help here. At any rate, I dare say that in 1983, when Undercover came out, MTV was not yet a major force all over Europe. Another factor is the development of national music scenes in the various European countries. I'm speaking from a European perspective now because that's where I was living back then and where I am living now. In the 60s there wasn't much of an independent national rock scene in most European countries. Rock music was international - in the sense that it came from England and the US. And it was strongly associated with the counterculture. Although the Stones themselves were not a part of the counterculture, they were a part of the counterculture's playlist. Those national scenes developed in the course of the 70s only and, in the German-speaking area, were in full flight from the beginning of the 80s, when it was also OK to sing in German. With only a handful exceptions, German groups in the 70s were singing in English. France or Italy were different in that respect.
Anyway, with firmly established national music scenes by the beginning of the 80s (give or take a little depending on the country), anglo-american rock or pop music no longer had the impact it used to have in the 60s or 70s. So whatever one thinks of Undercover otherwise, it could no longer have the impact a Stones album had in the 60s or early 70s. What defined - or maybe better, characterized, popular music in the early 80s was electropop, the rise of heavy metal, the transformation of rock into hip hop, the various post-punk movements and the growing national music scenes. The Stones (or Undercover) simply played no role here. I wonder how things would have looked for the Stones had they presented a strong album instead of Undercover and possibly toured behind it. Despite all those factors I mentioned, it was not the end of anglo-american rock music, after all. Don't forget this was also the time when Springsteen became big. But Springsteen had something to say and the Stones didn't.

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JumpingKentFlash

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Rocky Dijon
That is very true and my posts on IORR are certainly colored by an American perspective.

I wouldn’t want to be without your views though.

Nicest thing anyone's said to me in a long time. Thanks, JKF.

Getting back to the album . I wonder what they have.. what it sounds like ...



and when they plan on finishing it. Perhaps after the performances on tour it will add some extra spice .. or inspiration to some of it?

From what we've heard via Soldatti and what is logical to conclude...some of it sounds like vintage Stones, some of it sounds more like "Gotta Get a Grip" and "England Lost." The sessions have been an eclectic mix of styles like pretty much every Stones album. There may be some reworked outtakes from recent (as in the last 30 years) vintage (an idea seemingly favored by Don Was and possibly Keith). Matt Clifford was very involved with the sessions. Carl Falk has had his hand involved in more than one session. Steve Jordan has helped Keith demo some material for the album.

That suggests pretty much every album in recent memory. The real question is if the songs are stronger and if the performances, arrangements, and production help bring the songs to life. It appears what is needed is for the band to reassemble in the studio to cut some of Mick and Keith's more recent material and see how it holds up against the stronger material that was set aside in 2016 and possibly some of the material from last year that we've heard nothing specific about yet.

Not to sound like Eeyore, but in other words we shouldn't be holding our breath for a release anytime soon, but I think everyone has already accepted that reality.





Really looking forward to Beggars Deluxe, and to a much lesser degree maybe a live No Filter release.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Rocky, please don't even try.

This whole thread is all about one enthusiastic fan who really want to see a new Stones album to born (which is beautiful). And another fan who loves so much of his own opinion about Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, The Rolling Stones etc. that he cannot write one post without sharing his wisdom and judgment over about everything. Let us all just hope that he would once again repeat his dream that there is no new Rolling Stones album to come, but a new Keth Richards solo album. Oh yeah.

For the rest of us. This is totally a waste of time.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-06-03 23:00 by Doxa.

Any new music will be wellcome. Ronnie's and Keith's last solo works are very fine.