For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
doitywoik
Oh, and according to what was written in the links posted above, there should be also a new live album in time for Christmas (Xmas 2017, mind you!).
Time for a new thread, "Another Stones live album in 2017"? (Shortly to be retitled "... 2018")
Quote
doitywoik
Guess you're right, guys, the Beeb sessions of course.
My mind was still with the EU tour and I was fancying "Stones Over Europe" or suchlike ... would have committed them to the studio until Xmas Eve (minimally) to get all the necessary overdubs done ... and once in the studio, they could actually also do a little bit of work on ... you know what!
Quote
doitywoik
I must admit, I had forgotten about that, too. Or rather, I had forgotten it was this year only, feels like it was longer ago to me but obviously wasn't...
So looks like Ian *was/is* right in the end (which is not the worst thing).
At any rate, it makes sense now: they just had an unexpectedly successful album of covers out and presumably enough new (and presentable/useful) material in the can to be able to approach prospective business partners and negotiate a deal.
I still believe that Mick is too cautious for making a (possibly risky) deal empty-handed, so one might perhaps conclude that even now there is enough (pre-brick wall hitting, though) material done to fulfill the contract if all other things go wrong. At least, enough material for Mick to go into negotiations confidently.
If memory serves, we have heard quite diverging statements from the band, from "Only a little more work is needed" (can't remember who), to "I hope the blues album leads to reconsidering a few things" (Keith) to "some/much of it will possibly be recorded anew" (Ronnie), and in addition Keith's remarks about being prolific. The latter still seem to me to indicate that Keith is short on the songwriting and doesn't like much of what Mich brought.
However, I don't think the situation is so much different from earlier times. The way I remember things, we always heard that Mick rather brings in complete songs whereas Keith preferred to work out his stuff in the Studio, and outtakes show that they often tried out a number of approaches to a particular song. (And a good deal of fighting was presumably about which version or mix would make it on the album.) What is different this time is possibly that peace is more fragile and they don't want to let things come to a head, and also that noone feels like spending endless time in the studio to work on the material.
Apart from that, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be able to come up with a bunch of reasonable songs anymore. I just find it a pity - still - that Doom & Gloom was wasted on the Gorilla. What a great album opener that would have been!
Quote
24FPS
I'm not sure they're capable of much more than a simple blues album. Which is fine. They might be able to squeeze out a decent single, but an entire album worth of new, worthy material? From this bunch? Keith's songwriting has nosedived since 'The Worst' in '94. We know their rhythm section is not memorable since about the same time. They record Charlie's cymbals like their trash can lids. Honestly, they could only surprise me, because the studio magic died many years ago. Even Voodoo Lounge was an admitted throwback sound.
I've admittedly not listened to Charlie Watt's jazz albums so I don't know if he's created some substantial music on his own. Ronnie seems to have lost his desire to write and release his own albums. The last great 'Stones' records I heard was 'Warring People' with Mick in the group Superheavy. And Bill Wyman's 'What & How & If & When & Why' off his recent record. (But I understand he most likely won't be on the new album). I skipped through 'Crosseyed Heart' from the library, and never found a song worth listening to. (And yes, I liked Keith in the past).
I think we're asking way too much for a great album from what's left of the Stones at this point. We should expect little, so that maybe, just maybe, we could be pleasantly surprised.
Quote
Doxa
Add there Jagger's remark that he is interested in trying the 'method' of BLUE & LONESOME into original material
Quote
Doxa
(2) How good or bad it turns out to be?
…
Then the second issue - speculating about material none of us haven't heard yet.
Quote
Doxa
Let's bash it when it is released - not before!
Quote
doitywoik
Wasn't there The Big Start Me Up Botched Intro Repair Job on the Hyde Park DVD (Sweet Summer Sun)? Or was this also a hired gun giving it a shot?
Quote
Doxa
... Jagger's remark that he is interested in trying the 'method' of BLUE & LONESOME into original material...
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Doxa
... Jagger's remark that he is interested in trying the 'method' of BLUE & LONESOME into original material...
Mick must truly have a spotty memory because it's essentially how they recorded SOME GIRLS and a few others, if what by 'method' is meant "in a room together".
Quote
retired_dogQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Doxa
... Jagger's remark that he is interested in trying the 'method' of BLUE & LONESOME into original material...
Mick must truly have a spotty memory because it's essentially how they recorded SOME GIRLS and a few others, if what by 'method' is meant "in a room together".
Basically all of their 60's material was recorded that way - with very few overdubs due to the lack of multitrack space. With the ever-increasing development of multitracking, overdubbing gradually took over. But from my understanding, at least the recording of basic tracks "all together at once" (not necessarily in the same room!) stayed the norm until overdubbing Mick's demos came into the picture.
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
doitywoik
Wasn't there The Big Start Me Up Botched Intro Repair Job on the Hyde Park DVD (Sweet Summer Sun)? Or was this also a hired gun giving it a shot?
It was a copy/paste from another part of the song.
Quote
IanBillen
I am very sure they are not simply overdubbing on top of Micks Demos. People (Mick) make songs electronically ... The band works them out...
The band then re-records the songs. That would be what happens with Micks 'demos'.
Quote
DoxaQuote
24FPS
I'm not sure they're capable of much more than a simple blues album. Which is fine. They might be able to squeeze out a decent single, but an entire album worth of new, worthy material? From this bunch? Keith's songwriting has nosedived since 'The Worst' in '94. We know their rhythm section is not memorable since about the same time. They record Charlie's cymbals like their trash can lids. Honestly, they could only surprise me, because the studio magic died many years ago. Even Voodoo Lounge was an admitted throwback sound.
I've admittedly not listened to Charlie Watt's jazz albums so I don't know if he's created some substantial music on his own. Ronnie seems to have lost his desire to write and release his own albums. The last great 'Stones' records I heard was 'Warring People' with Mick in the group Superheavy. And Bill Wyman's 'What & How & If & When & Why' off his recent record. (But I understand he most likely won't be on the new album). I skipped through 'Crosseyed Heart' from the library, and never found a song worth listening to. (And yes, I liked Keith in the past).
I think we're asking way too much for a great album from what's left of the Stones at this point. We should expect little, so that maybe, just maybe, we could be pleasantly surprised.
A bit pessimistic picture you have here, 24FPS. And I need to add I can't really disagree with many of those points.
But my take is still a bit more optimistic. My time of reference is bit shorter, though.
(1) CROSSEYED HEART proved that Keith still have the unique 'feel'. A necessary component for a good Stones relaese.
(2) "Gotta Get A Grip" proved that Mick still has the 'drive'. A necessary element for a good Stones release.
(3) BLUE & LONESOME proved that the band still 'got it' - they can make very enjoyable noise together if their mind is in it. A necessary component for a good Stones release
Of course, none of this guarantees any great new STones album, or how to make those elements 'match', but I think - optimistically - that there are some good signals now. Of course, the expectations should be realistic now - for me a better album than A BIGGER BANG would be a big win (so I think along the lines of 24FPS - "We should expect little, so that maybe, just maybe, we could be pleasantly surprised").
But funny thing about creativity is that is not predictable - anything can happen. Even miracles. So I think no reason to be too pessimistic... Let's bash it when it is relaesed - not before!
- Doxa
Quote
doitywoikQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
doitywoik
Wasn't there The Big Start Me Up Botched Intro Repair Job on the Hyde Park DVD (Sweet Summer Sun)? Or was this also a hired gun giving it a shot?
It was a copy/paste from another part of the song.
OK, thanks!Quote
IanBillen
I am very sure they are not simply overdubbing on top of Micks Demos. People (Mick) make songs electronically ... The band works them out...
The band then re-records the songs. That would be what happens with Micks 'demos'.
I remember a Mick/Keith interview in Rolling Stone (albeit in German) from the time when ABB came out. There they said most of everything was done in Mick's house (using Mick's home studio & software). Also that the drums were played by Mick because Charlie was just going through his cancer treatment, and Ronnie only added a few bits later on (slide). Dunno how much was lost (or fabricated) in translation, but wouldn't seem all to unlikely to me either.
Anyway, if the 'method' is working on the songs together there's a chance that input come from more than one side (for better or worse).
Once the album is out we'll certainly get a ton of interviews with every possible version of how how the recording process went being told (and yet some) ....
Maybe that's a bit OT now but I am just remembering a Keith interview re ABB where Keith claimed that he was the one who introduced Mick to the world of recording and editing software, claiming Mick had no idea all that existed ... good one! LOL
Quote
Hairball
Regarding ABB - there's a whole slew of Mick and Keith blurbs about it right here> A Bigger Bang
After reading 99% of those, you'd think it was one of their best albums since Exile (there's even mention of that in there somewhere)...until you get to the final quote from Keith:
"There's some good stuff on there, but I don't know... There's something about the way it holds together, for me.
I don't know if we got the tracks in the right order or something like that. Sometimes, it can make the difference on a record, the way it flows. But I enjoyed making it very much".
- Keith Richards, September 2015
Seems he's second guessing the overall quality, and while he enjoyed the process of making it, maybe the album as a whole just didn't age well for him.
Quote
georgelicksQuote
Hairball
Regarding ABB - there's a whole slew of Mick and Keith blurbs about it right here> A Bigger Bang
After reading 99% of those, you'd think it was one of their best albums since Exile (there's even mention of that in there somewhere)...until you get to the final quote from Keith:
"There's some good stuff on there, but I don't know... There's something about the way it holds together, for me.
I don't know if we got the tracks in the right order or something like that. Sometimes, it can make the difference on a record, the way it flows. But I enjoyed making it very much".
- Keith Richards, September 2015
Seems he's second guessing the overall quality, and while he enjoyed the process of making it, maybe the album as a whole just didn't age well for him.
ABB has too much filler on it, too many songs, after Rain Fall Down the album is hit and miss, it doesn't flow very well.
Rough Justice
Let Me Down Slow
It Won't Take Long
Rain Fall Down
This Place Is Empty
Under The Radar
Oh No, Not You Again
Dangerous Beauty
Laugh I Nearly Died
Driving Too Fast
That's a great 10 song - 40 minutes album, if flows well, sadly on the CD era you have to put extra songs on it so there is it.
Quote
GasLightStreet
Yep.
Even STEEL WHEELS they were all in the same room. Obviously not ALL of them the entire time - just as with other albums - but in general. For A BIGGER BANG they were in a living room together.
Not sure if that's what Mick means. Perhaps he's leaning more towards the 'do a few takes and move on' mentality.
Quote
24FPS
...Benjamin Franklin, 'Expect the worst, then you can only be pleasantly surprised.'
Quote
Doxa
Surely the idea is that the whole band is in the same room (but like pointed out here above, that's nothing extraordinary but the way the Stones generally work).