For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.
And I love the cartoon too.
You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.
Quote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Quote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Hairball
99,9 percent of ALL Stones fans love Wandering Spirit?
Not so sure about that, but if you insist.
And 'love' is a pretty strong word, I'd probably go with 'like' or to a lesser degree 'tolerate', although I'm only speaking for myself.
I'm no statistician, but 20 years on this board has taught me that WS is, almost without exceptions, praised among fans
Quote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.
Quote
Doxa
[...]
one thing that interests me, more than actually critizing the views of my fellow Stones fans here at IORR, is to critically examine the way Richards is viewed in musical media. My true target, or conversational partner, is to be found in that direction.
[...]
- Doxa
Quote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
Quote
treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.
then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?
Quote
matxilQuote
treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.
then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?
I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....
Quote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.
yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.
Quote
HMSQuote
GasLightStreet
Go listen to Let's Work. You have no orbit.
Good idea. But it´s called Dirty Work, not Let´s Work.
Quote
BeforeTheyMakeMeRunQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.
And I love the cartoon too.
You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.
Come on! If you compare them to the bulk of the Stones' rock 'n' roll output, of course you'll say the album or its songs are horrible. Listen to the album in the context of when it was released, during the mid-80s. Granted, this was before my time but wasn't new-wave and keyboard/synth-heavy music the craze? It's just Mick doing what he always does: trying to make the music fit in (albeit a little forced here & here).
Quote
matxilQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
"in for me" / "infamy". That "pun" alone is enough to strongly dislike the song. Also, he sings it as if he's standing under the shower and just came up with it. It's nonsense, it's unworked, it's a bad song.
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
BeforeTheyMakeMeRunQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.
And I love the cartoon too.
You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.
Come on! If you compare them to the bulk of the Stones' rock 'n' roll output, of course you'll say the album or its songs are horrible. Listen to the album in the context of when it was released, during the mid-80s. Granted, this was before my time but wasn't new-wave and keyboard/synth-heavy music the craze? It's just Mick doing what he always does: trying to make the music fit in (albeit a little forced here & here).
Your little bit there does nothing but exemplify just how bad it was. Context has zero relevance. The dude that spearheaded Jumpin' Jack Flash with Keith Richards thought Let's Work was a great leading single for his second solo album after the worst Rolling Stones album in history was released.
Quote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.
yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.
Well you asked 'what's not to love' so I gave you an answer!...
Quote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
HairballQuote
LeonidPQuote
retired_dogQuote
LeonidPQuote
Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.
Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!
Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.
Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.
Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).
You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).
Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?
For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.
yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.
Well you asked 'what's not to love' so I gave you an answer!...
Not really, it was an obvious rhetorical question. But no matter, it's a great song, no one can change that.
Quote
LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"
Quote
Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.Quote
LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"
Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.Quote
LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"
Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...
Fair point. With the Garcia example, I was trying to focus more on the way some of Jerry's solo output had been embraced by fans of the band and played by the band for years and years. Imagine "Take it So Hard" or "Just Another Night" at a Stones show. Snoozefest. The porta-potties would explode with the sudden influx.
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.Quote
LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"
Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...
Fair point. With the Garcia example, I was trying to focus more on the way some of Jerry's solo output had been embraced by fans of the band and played by the band for years and years. Imagine "Take it So Hard" or "Just Another Night" at a Stones show. Snoozefest. The porta-potties would explode with the sudden influx.
Quote
LeonidPQuote
matxilQuote
treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.
then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?
I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....
I find that pretty funny considering your dislike of Infamy.
Quote
LongBeachArena72
Two thoughts here:
1) The only indication that either of the Glimmers has ever given that he might have been capable of an artistically and commercially significant solo career resides in the single song "Memo from Turner." Everything else from both of them has been marginalia, appealing to fan-boys and -girls and no one else in the wider world, and
2) Given the stature of The Stones it's really remarkable when you think about it how awful their solo "careers" have been, Christ, all four Beatles INCLUDING RINGO had more hit songs. Robert Plant filled arenas for years when he toured as a solo act. Pete Townshend produced work on his own that in many ways rivals the Who's catalog. Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades. I'm sure there are many more examples.
I don't know what it means that their collective solo outputs are so musically irrelevant. Could they just be crappier-than-we-think songwriters whose only genius lies in the first decade-and-a-half of their partnership when they were able to operate in a true "1+1=3/sum is greater than its parts" kind of manner?
I have long believed that while Mick and Keith are of course fantastic songwriters their true gift lies in their use of the studio as an instrument. From the early days at RCA in Hollywood with Jack Nitzsche and Dave Hassinger to Olympic in London with Jimmy Miller and Nicky, the band produced irresistible songscapes of inventive instrumentation and wildly creative "technique." Thats what, at least to my ears, is most missing from post-Taylor Stones and from all of the Jagger and Richards solo records.
Quote
matxilQuote
LeonidPQuote
matxilQuote
treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.
then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?
I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....
I find that pretty funny considering your dislike of Infamy.
I really don't see the connection. Do you refer to the music or to the lyrics or to something else?
"Just Another Night" is a fun pop song (like all/most of Jagger's solo stuff is pop-music), "Infamy" is someone trying to remember a vague melody and meanwhile trying to be clever with wordplay.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.
The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.
That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..
Quote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.
The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.
That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..
You're right that "underdeveloped melodies" are something like Keith's trademark, but sometimes it works very well ("Wicked As It Seems", "Thief in the Night") and sometimes it falls flat, as it does on Infamy. The song might have worked better with different vocals.
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxilQuote
DandelionPowderman
It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.
The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.
That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..
You're right that "underdeveloped melodies" are something like Keith's trademark, but sometimes it works very well ("Wicked As It Seems", "Thief in the Night") and sometimes it falls flat, as it does on Infamy. The song might have worked better with different vocals.
Agreed, but both of your examples are rather heavy on melody - for Keith, that is. You can actually hum and sing those tunes