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To prefer song A to song B you have to know both, right?. So of course you have compared one to the other and then you picked the one you enjoy the most.
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
Plant's In the Mood is a great song indeed. Can't think of many others, but I did like the tune 29 Palms off of one of his solo albums.
And then maybe a couple tunes he did with Alison Kraus (sp?) - I have the cd but only listened a couple times when released.
Mick solo vs. Plant solo - a torturous choice.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
You mean similar to what Mick has done, and with better results?
Haha funnyiest line of the week
Yes i saw Adel at the Royal Albert Hall with my wife and i came out of there saying that if she keeps singing like that, giving it everything she's got, she will loose her voice. Low and behold she lost her voice and since the operation its not so good as before. Either that or she has learnt sensibly to hold back a little.
I agree Micks voice is his Achilles heel, and yeah i think you are right about Keith, its probably the reason he doesn't play that rhythm thing the way he did, ouch its gonna hurt. Keith's not lazy but he knows how to carry this thing on, he needs to pull back from full throttle, they all realize that and as you say they know how to get extra millage out of this band. Survivors first, showmen second. it was all so different once.
RP's had a stellar solo career that has gotten even stronger over time. Band of Joy was amazing. Even his first breakout cut, "Burning Down One Side"...gorgeous.
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
I'n not a big Robert Plant fan per se, but I need to admit that I respect and admire his post-Zeppelin career. No need to stick to the same old rock super star habits and manouvres and life and artistic choices he used to with the Zep ("been there, done that"), but growing up gracefully, something, like we know, is not the forte of Mick's (or the Stones)... Even cooler that he refuses to reform the Zep no matter how much money is there on the table and how much Page wishes to.
- Doxa
Why is it a cool thing that Plant denies the world of seeing the second best band in the world. That's a bummer as far as i'm concerned. Page and Plant together are wonderful. For the ego to get in the way of that, well it's a great pity imho. I suppose you think it would have been so cool for Mick and Keith to have never got back together so you could fantasize some more about Micks unbelievably creative solo career.
Are you perhaps thinking more of his «third» career (his latter-day period)?
Because in the 1980s he was competing with the youngsters by making records that were pretty close to poodle rock, didn't he?
Today, it looks like he's merely having fun - not taking himself too seriously. I respect that choice, but it also signals a sort of laziness. Is he trying to make memorable music, or is he just playing and jamming with friends?
Not concluding, just asking/wondering, as I haven't followed his solo career that closely.
well if you're going to pick random songs to compare, then i can say a band like Styx is better than the Stones since Too Much Time is better than Back To Zero.
There's a lot of crap in those RP albums, I've listened to them...
Despite some of Mick's crap, he has some fantastic songs, Wandering Spirit, Mother of a Man, Wired All Night, God Gave Me Everything, Evening Gown, Party Doll, etc.
"just not that bad" is almost the worst thing you could say about any piece of art, be it literature, film or music.
It is cool because it's based on integrity (and not ego). It's about the only real reason to do anything: music or a painting or telling a story: because you really like it, because you really think you got something to say, because you want to grow as an artist, develop things, *say* something. I am not a big fan of Robert Plant either but I saw one his acts on YouTube, some kind of country-duet and it was really good and it was real music, not just some show.
And yes, I for one, do think it would have been better if Mick and Keith would have stopped compromising within the Stones, after Undercover, and instead each going for his own solo career. I don't care much for Mick's solo stuff but if he really believed in it, he should have gone on doing it. However, it seems he didn't really believe in it, not musically, which might partially explain the lack of success. On the other hand, it would have given us more Keith solo albums too, and although not everything on it is great, there is certainly very good stuff on them, and - like Robert Plant - at least it feels "real", like an artist who really wants to do what he is doing. Which is what it is supposed to be all about.
On the other hand I would not go out on a limb to state that I think his material is the one-all. I listen to lots and lots of music; most of it Non-Stones, and I like, even love a lot of it. But not all of it is desert island material. You can't do that.
When you do a setlist for a gig it is just as important to pace the show. You have show stoppers, and highlights, and then you have the breathers.
For every "Rocks Off" there is a "Turd on the Run". ( I could have made my whole point with just this sentence).
True, but - sorry for insisting - I think "Turd on the Run" is a lot better than "not that bad". But I see your point, some songs are not great but still have a purpose in life. Some of them might even end up in the "guilty pleasures" category.
You are taking this very literal, so I am going to stop on this point.
...and funny, you're doing the same thing you're accusing me of, although i agree with your picks which I note are mostly from one album.
Still I think you will have the need and wish to rank between songs that are different in style, wouldn't you? That is, you start the act of comparing, but at once interrupt it when you, as to the songs themselves, conclude that they are more or less incomparable. But you would not abstain from ranking between the less comparable or even outright incomparable songs?
Integrity is one thing, but an easier (and probably more realistic) explanation is that Keith did not sing on most Stones songs and he probably was not too keen to hear comparisons of his versions of, let's say, Satisfaction, Paint It Black, Ruby Tuesday, JJF or HTW with the originals with Mick's lead vocals. I recall him explaining doing Gimme Shelter live because someone played him a bootleg with the "Keith lead vocals"-outtake to convince him that he's sounding good on that one and to give it a try with the Winos.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 10:51 by retired_dog.
Yeah, I guess I was. Don't recall much of his doings back in the 80's, can't say I was following them too closely (if at all)... Probably he was a bit like Mick then, trying to cope with the trends (which, most likely was easier for him, since he was the original singer with a certain singing style many of the hair bands back then took their model from.). Saw him I guess 10-15 years ago, and he did much Zeppelin material in that gig (the only songs I was able to recognize). If that is true how you describe his latest doings, "not taking himself too seriously", in that sense I recommend that to all aging rock stars haha...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 11:34 by Doxa.
That's a very good observation, or let me say that I feel exactly the same. At the moment I have PRIMITIVE COOL on the run, and individually taken the songs are mostly rather good (a review will follow), but the over-all impression, when put all the songs together, still is somehow lesser than its parts. Something is not right there (and the bad rap is somehow justified).And I agree with you that "not that bad" is exactly the right expression in this context, knowing the reputation these records have.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 11:51 by Doxa.
And the overall impression is what an album is supposed to be about.
Heck, there are probably 6 good songs on Dirty Work, but not many regard it a good album
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 12:07 by DandelionPowderman.
Could be, but I tend to think he was on a true solo journey for those tours playing most all of his solo material and/or songs that he wrote simply because he chose to. He had enough solo tunes and Stones songs he wrote on his own (some of which he also originally sang on - Happy, BTMMR, etc.) for both tours so there was no need to blur the lines between a true Keith solo show and a 'Stones' show w/out Mick. He was probably thinking "why play a bunch of Stones songs when I have enough artillery to make it truly solo"? But of course what you say could be partially true...
*On the other hand you have Mick and Robert Plant playing a bulk of songs from their bands (Stones and Zep) rather than having the main focus on their solo catalogues as Keith did which was my original point.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 18:30 by Hairball.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
you made so many bad points here it's hard to sift through them all but i'll try.
turning down 500 or 600 million dollars to sell a fake version of zeppelin to the public is a little more important than keith doing his own songs on a 20 date theater tour.especially when he ran back to the vegas stones after each one,cashing a check to play the hits with a lead singer who he can't stand the sight of.
you're also forgetting a small bit of time..the entire 80's and half the 90's.plant was selling out 18000 seat arenas.doing tour after tour playing his own songs without any zep stuff in the set. between the end of LZ in 1980 and his reunion with jimmy in 94 he did it all on his own, playing songs from his platinum albums.
during this era it's laughable to say he was "keeping up with the times" when every lead singer was trying to be him.i hadn't really thought about ol robert for a long time so i went on you tube and looked at some of his old stuff,it's incredible how many hits he had.
why on earth would you think it's a "kick in the teeth" to jimmy if plant now plays the old songs? jimmy did almost an entire set on his 88 tour,a full tour with the black crowes and also a rap version of kashmir with p.diddy.they're just songs,nobody cares.
it's not an old question,at what point is a band just a name? how many members do you lose before it's not the real deal? for robert without his friend playing the drums it's not the real band -end of story.people need to get that through their thick heads.no..just fcking NO.people are so bought and sold nowdays that they see someone who doesn't sell his soul for the almighty dollar and they think HE'S the one doing something wrong,it's mindboggling how far we've sunk.
"i'm not peter pan and i have no desire to go out there with my shirt open trying to relive the past"-robert plant
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Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: April 5, 2017 16:28
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMSQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
If you choose between two songs you automatically compare.
Idiot - comparing is tangerine pie to navel orange pie.
Choosing between two songs is not comparing. You're such a dolt.
You have two songs to choose from. You pick the one that is more attractive to you. Your decision is based on comparison.
Iot. You really need to stop thinking. Because you are ignorant.
To prefer song A to song B you have to know both, right?. So of course you have compared one to the other and then you picked the one you enjoy the most.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 5, 2017 19:34
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career, but it was stardom or bust, so he went back to the sure thing.
He wasn't adventurous like Bowie; or have a knack for writing earworm pop hooks like Phil Collins; or have the appeal to Americans of heartland boys Seger, Springsteen, Mellencamp; also by the '80s, Jagger had sort of a Austin Powers feel to him, and not a really likable, to boot; plus you always felt him and Keith were just marking time to make a comeback.
He wasn't adventurous like Bowie; or have a knack for writing earworm pop hooks like Phil Collins; or have the appeal to Americans of heartland boys Seger, Springsteen, Mellencamp; also by the '80s, Jagger had sort of a Austin Powers feel to him, and not a really likable, to boot; plus you always felt him and Keith were just marking time to make a comeback.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 5, 2017 19:44
Quote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 5, 2017 20:06
Quote
LeonidPQuote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
Plant's In the Mood is a great song indeed. Can't think of many others, but I did like the tune 29 Palms off of one of his solo albums.
And then maybe a couple tunes he did with Alison Kraus (sp?) - I have the cd but only listened a couple times when released.
Mick solo vs. Plant solo - a torturous choice.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 5, 2017 21:57
'Plant-like' in the sense of making whatever music you like, teaming up with other musicians on interesting projects, enjoying your life, resisting the urge to call up the guitar player to make multi-millions and resume the old life.
Plant seems like he has enjoyed his post-Zep life very much, thank you.
Plant seems like he has enjoyed his post-Zep life very much, thank you.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 5, 2017 22:33
Quote
wonderboy
'Plant-like' in the sense of making whatever music you like, teaming up with other musicians on interesting projects, enjoying your life, resisting the urge to call up the guitar player to make multi-millions and resume the old life.
Plant seems like he has enjoyed his post-Zep life very much, thank you.
You mean similar to what Mick has done, and with better results?
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: April 6, 2017 00:52
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
I liked Doxa's reappraisal of "Shes The Boss".
I been sitting here, and I have Jagger solo albums on shuffle. And I got to say I am surprised at the overall quality.
With Jagger I think there is a reverse to the sum-is-better-than-the-parts dynamic.
Usually we say the overall album is better than the individual songs. With Jagger I think it is exactly the other way around. His albums get a bad rap; then you listen to the tracks, and they are just not that bad.
You have a stronger immune system to crap then I do.
Haha funnyiest line of the week
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: April 6, 2017 01:03
Quote
lem motlowQuote
stone4ever
Cheers Lem that does explain a lot. Its how it sounds, like he is constantly saving his voice, even on the last show of any tour he is saving and nurturing the voice so he can make more money in the future. I find myself almost willing Mick to think @#$%& it , let them have it tonight, and spit shout and holler those lyrics the way they were written to be sang. But like you say, look at Roger Daltry, his voice is all but shot to pieces.
we've all thought that but there are real world consequences.he could blow his voice out for real.that means throat surgery and possibly the end of mick and the end of the rolling stones.
the best pure voice i've heard in years is adeles and she had throat surgery in her early 20's.theres no promise you come back.it's scary as hell.
it's micks version of keiths arthritis.i always think "come on keith,get back there next to charlie and beat the shit out of that guitar like you used to" he doesn't complain but we all know those fckng hands gotta hurt.bang a few chords and hold your hand above your head.it may look like posing but it's a survival mechanism.if anyone knows how to survive it's the rolling stones..
Yes i saw Adel at the Royal Albert Hall with my wife and i came out of there saying that if she keeps singing like that, giving it everything she's got, she will loose her voice. Low and behold she lost her voice and since the operation its not so good as before. Either that or she has learnt sensibly to hold back a little.
I agree Micks voice is his Achilles heel, and yeah i think you are right about Keith, its probably the reason he doesn't play that rhythm thing the way he did, ouch its gonna hurt. Keith's not lazy but he knows how to carry this thing on, he needs to pull back from full throttle, they all realize that and as you say they know how to get extra millage out of this band. Survivors first, showmen second. it was all so different once.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: April 6, 2017 08:54
Quote
LeonidPQuote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
RP's had a stellar solo career that has gotten even stronger over time. Band of Joy was amazing. Even his first breakout cut, "Burning Down One Side"...gorgeous.
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 6, 2017 09:10
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
LeonidPQuote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
RP's had a stellar solo career that has gotten even stronger over time. Band of Joy was amazing. Even his first breakout cut, "Burning Down One Side"...gorgeous.
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
I'n not a big Robert Plant fan per se, but I need to admit that I respect and admire his post-Zeppelin career. No need to stick to the same old rock super star habits and manouvres and life and artistic choices he used to with the Zep ("been there, done that"), but growing up gracefully, something, like we know, is not the forte of Mick's (or the Stones)... Even cooler that he refuses to reform the Zep no matter how much money is there on the table and how much Page wishes to.
- Doxa
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
stone4ever
()
Date: April 6, 2017 09:32
Quote
DoxaQuote
treaclefingersQuote
LeonidPQuote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
RP's had a stellar solo career that has gotten even stronger over time. Band of Joy was amazing. Even his first breakout cut, "Burning Down One Side"...gorgeous.
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
I'n not a big Robert Plant fan per se, but I need to admit that I respect and admire his post-Zeppelin career. No need to stick to the same old rock super star habits and manouvres and life and artistic choices he used to with the Zep ("been there, done that"), but growing up gracefully, something, like we know, is not the forte of Mick's (or the Stones)... Even cooler that he refuses to reform the Zep no matter how much money is there on the table and how much Page wishes to.
- Doxa
Why is it a cool thing that Plant denies the world of seeing the second best band in the world. That's a bummer as far as i'm concerned. Page and Plant together are wonderful. For the ego to get in the way of that, well it's a great pity imho. I suppose you think it would have been so cool for Mick and Keith to have never got back together so you could fantasize some more about Micks unbelievably creative solo career.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 6, 2017 10:00
Quote
DoxaQuote
treaclefingersQuote
LeonidPQuote
wonderboy
Mick could've had a nice, Robert Plant-like solo career ...
I'll take Mick's solo career over R Plant's any day.
... although nothing Mick ever did can touch In the Mood, I'll give you that, but what's Plant's next best song? Little By Little? Mick has a ton of songs that blow that away.
RP's had a stellar solo career that has gotten even stronger over time. Band of Joy was amazing. Even his first breakout cut, "Burning Down One Side"...gorgeous.
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
I'n not a big Robert Plant fan per se, but I need to admit that I respect and admire his post-Zeppelin career. No need to stick to the same old rock super star habits and manouvres and life and artistic choices he used to with the Zep ("been there, done that"), but growing up gracefully, something, like we know, is not the forte of Mick's (or the Stones)... Even cooler that he refuses to reform the Zep no matter how much money is there on the table and how much Page wishes to.
- Doxa
Are you perhaps thinking more of his «third» career (his latter-day period)?
Because in the 1980s he was competing with the youngsters by making records that were pretty close to poodle rock, didn't he?
Today, it looks like he's merely having fun - not taking himself too seriously. I respect that choice, but it also signals a sort of laziness. Is he trying to make memorable music, or is he just playing and jamming with friends?
Not concluding, just asking/wondering, as I haven't followed his solo career that closely.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 6, 2017 11:16
Quote
treaclefingers
...
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
well if you're going to pick random songs to compare, then i can say a band like Styx is better than the Stones since Too Much Time is better than Back To Zero.
There's a lot of crap in those RP albums, I've listened to them...
Despite some of Mick's crap, he has some fantastic songs, Wandering Spirit, Mother of a Man, Wired All Night, God Gave Me Everything, Evening Gown, Party Doll, etc.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: April 6, 2017 11:18
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I liked Doxa's reappraisal of "Shes The Boss".
I been sitting here, and I have Jagger solo albums on shuffle. And I got to say I am surprised at the overall quality.
With Jagger I think there is a reverse to the sum-is-better-than-the-parts dynamic.
Usually we say the overall album is better than the individual songs. With Jagger I think it is exactly the other way around. His albums get a bad rap; then you listen to the tracks, and they are just not that bad.
"just not that bad" is almost the worst thing you could say about any piece of art, be it literature, film or music.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: April 6, 2017 11:27
Quote
stone4ever
Why is it a cool thing that Plant denies the world of seeing the second best band in the world. That's a bummer as far as i'm concerned. Page and Plant together are wonderful. For the ego to get in the way of that, well it's a great pity imho. I suppose you think it would have been so cool for Mick and Keith to have never got back together so you could fantasize some more about Micks unbelievably creative solo career.
It is cool because it's based on integrity (and not ego). It's about the only real reason to do anything: music or a painting or telling a story: because you really like it, because you really think you got something to say, because you want to grow as an artist, develop things, *say* something. I am not a big fan of Robert Plant either but I saw one his acts on YouTube, some kind of country-duet and it was really good and it was real music, not just some show.
And yes, I for one, do think it would have been better if Mick and Keith would have stopped compromising within the Stones, after Undercover, and instead each going for his own solo career. I don't care much for Mick's solo stuff but if he really believed in it, he should have gone on doing it. However, it seems he didn't really believe in it, not musically, which might partially explain the lack of success. On the other hand, it would have given us more Keith solo albums too, and although not everything on it is great, there is certainly very good stuff on them, and - like Robert Plant - at least it feels "real", like an artist who really wants to do what he is doing. Which is what it is supposed to be all about.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: April 6, 2017 11:34
VERY good point Matxil. I agree - there is nothing worse than 'lukewarm'. I want to ay that I use the line 'not that bad' as a conversational turn of phrase to apply to this very context; of this thread. Where many posts are making the point of "how bad" his stuff is. And I was replying to that.Quote
matxilQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
I liked Doxa's reappraisal of "Shes The Boss".
I been sitting here, and I have Jagger solo albums on shuffle. And I goOn the pther hand I would not go out on a limb to sayt to say I am surprised at the overall quality.
With Jagger I think there is a reverse to the sum-is-better-than-the-parts dynamic.
Usually we say the overall album is better than the individual songs. With Jagger I think it is exactly the other way around. His albums get a bad rap; then you listen to the tracks, and they are just not that bad.
"just not that bad" is almost the worst thing you could say about any piece of art, be it literature, film or music.
On the other hand I would not go out on a limb to state that I think his material is the one-all. I listen to lots and lots of music; most of it Non-Stones, and I like, even love a lot of it. But not all of it is desert island material. You can't do that.
When you do a setlist for a gig it is just as important to pace the show. You have show stoppers, and highlights, and then you have the breathers.
For every "Rocks Off" there is a "Turd on the Run". ( I could have made my whole point with just this sentence).
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: April 6, 2017 12:07
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
For every "Rocks Off" there is a "Turd on the Run". ( I could have made my whole point with just this sentence).
True, but - sorry for insisting - I think "Turd on the Run" is a lot better than "not that bad". But I see your point, some songs are not great but still have a purpose in life. Some of them might even end up in the "guilty pleasures" category.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: April 6, 2017 12:54
Quote
matxilQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
For every "Rocks Off" there is a "Turd on the Run". ( I could have made my whole point with just this sentence).
True, but - sorry for insisting - I think "Turd on the Run" is a lot better than "not that bad". But I see your point, some songs are not great but still have a purpose in life. Some of them might even end up in the "guilty pleasures" category.
You are taking this very literal, so I am going to stop on this point.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: April 6, 2017 15:58
Quote
LeonidPQuote
treaclefingers
...
And what would you rather listen to, State Of Shock or Good Rockin' at Midnight? Much as I love Mick and a lot of his solo stuff, RP kicks his ass.
well if you're going to pick random songs to compare, then i can say a band like Styx is better than the Stones since Too Much Time is better than Back To Zero.
There's a lot of crap in those RP albums, I've listened to them...
Despite some of Mick's crap, he has some fantastic songs, Wandering Spirit, Mother of a Man, Wired All Night, God Gave Me Everything, Evening Gown, Party Doll, etc.
...and funny, you're doing the same thing you're accusing me of, although i agree with your picks which I note are mostly from one album.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 6, 2017 20:50
you can't compare robert plants actual second career to micks side projects as a member of the rolling stones.
mick was musically running away from the stones while robert took the zep sound into his next chapter career, just changing it slightly here and there.
plants genius was he took the subtle feel of zeppelins music and molded it into his own.where the average dummy thinks it's about playing really loud and hitting the drums really hard the music is way, way deeper than that.
pictures at eleven, his first one is a good example.if you listen to slow dancer or burning down one side you here alot of that in it,songs like big log are another good example,it's an all my love style song without the huge background.
it's easy to forget since so much time has passed that robert had bigtime success thoughout the 80's and early 90's.he sold out 16-18000 seat arenas easily. pictures at eleven,principle of moments,shaken and stirred,now and zen and fate of nations sold really well.3 of them went platinum and 2 were gold.
now and zen from 1988 sold 3 million copies and songs like tall cool one and heaven knows were all over the radio.
to compare micks "solo career" to robert plant is like comparing keiths "solo career" to paul mccartneys.
mick was musically running away from the stones while robert took the zep sound into his next chapter career, just changing it slightly here and there.
plants genius was he took the subtle feel of zeppelins music and molded it into his own.where the average dummy thinks it's about playing really loud and hitting the drums really hard the music is way, way deeper than that.
pictures at eleven, his first one is a good example.if you listen to slow dancer or burning down one side you here alot of that in it,songs like big log are another good example,it's an all my love style song without the huge background.
it's easy to forget since so much time has passed that robert had bigtime success thoughout the 80's and early 90's.he sold out 16-18000 seat arenas easily. pictures at eleven,principle of moments,shaken and stirred,now and zen and fate of nations sold really well.3 of them went platinum and 2 were gold.
now and zen from 1988 sold 3 million copies and songs like tall cool one and heaven knows were all over the radio.
to compare micks "solo career" to robert plant is like comparing keiths "solo career" to paul mccartneys.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 6, 2017 23:59
For however much 'integrity' people think Plant has for shying away from Led Zeppelin, keep in mind that nearly half (or more?) of his setlists are made up of Led Zeppelin songs. Perhaps he tweaks them a bit, but a Zeppelin song is a Zeppelin song no matter how you dice it. And just recently, he made a surprise appearance on stage with someone (name escapes me), and sure enough he belted out Kashmir in all it's Zeppelin glory. Sure he may have partially written it (the words), but seems like a kick in the teeth of Jimmy Page for Plant to continually play songs they wrote together as part of Led Zeppelin.
Mick did the same during his aborted solo tour - playing and tampering with Stones songs that are somewhat 'holy' and should not be messed with oustide of the band.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Mick did the same during his aborted solo tour - playing and tampering with Stones songs that are somewhat 'holy' and should not be messed with oustide of the band.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: April 7, 2017 06:05
Quote
HMS
Comparing songs that are completely different in style is senseless (Sleep Tonight-Wired All Night). Compare ballads to ballads and rockers to rockers if you feel the need to compare Stones-songs/solo-songs.
So, Sleep Tonight compared to Evening Gown would be 0:1, but compared to Handsome Molly it would be 1:0...
Still I think you will have the need and wish to rank between songs that are different in style, wouldn't you? That is, you start the act of comparing, but at once interrupt it when you, as to the songs themselves, conclude that they are more or less incomparable. But you would not abstain from ranking between the less comparable or even outright incomparable songs?
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: April 7, 2017 10:48
Quote
Hairball
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
Integrity is one thing, but an easier (and probably more realistic) explanation is that Keith did not sing on most Stones songs and he probably was not too keen to hear comparisons of his versions of, let's say, Satisfaction, Paint It Black, Ruby Tuesday, JJF or HTW with the originals with Mick's lead vocals. I recall him explaining doing Gimme Shelter live because someone played him a bootleg with the "Keith lead vocals"-outtake to convince him that he's sounding good on that one and to give it a try with the Winos.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 10:51 by retired_dog.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 7, 2017 11:28
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Are you perhaps thinking more of his «third» career (his latter-day period)?
Because in the 1980s he was competing with the youngsters by making records that were pretty close to poodle rock, didn't he?
Today, it looks like he's merely having fun - not taking himself too seriously. I respect that choice, but it also signals a sort of laziness. Is he trying to make memorable music, or is he just playing and jamming with friends?
Not concluding, just asking/wondering, as I haven't followed his solo career that closely.
Yeah, I guess I was. Don't recall much of his doings back in the 80's, can't say I was following them too closely (if at all)... Probably he was a bit like Mick then, trying to cope with the trends (which, most likely was easier for him, since he was the original singer with a certain singing style many of the hair bands back then took their model from.). Saw him I guess 10-15 years ago, and he did much Zeppelin material in that gig (the only songs I was able to recognize). If that is true how you describe his latest doings, "not taking himself too seriously", in that sense I recommend that to all aging rock stars haha...
- Doxa
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 11:34 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 7, 2017 11:43
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
With Jagger I think there is a reverse to the sum-is-better-than-the-parts dynamic.
Usually we say the overall album is better than the individual songs. With Jagger I think it is exactly the other way around. His albums get a bad rap; then you listen to the tracks, and they are just not that bad.
That's a very good observation, or let me say that I feel exactly the same. At the moment I have PRIMITIVE COOL on the run, and individually taken the songs are mostly rather good (a review will follow), but the over-all impression, when put all the songs together, still is somehow lesser than its parts. Something is not right there (and the bad rap is somehow justified).And I agree with you that "not that bad" is exactly the right expression in this context, knowing the reputation these records have.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 11:51 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 7, 2017 12:07
Quote
DoxaQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
With Jagger I think there is a reverse to the sum-is-better-than-the-parts dynamic.
Usually we say the overall album is better than the individual songs. With Jagger I think it is exactly the other way around. His albums get a bad rap; then you listen to the tracks, and they are just not that bad.
That's a very good observation, or let me say that I feel exactly the same. At the moment I have PRIMITIVE COOL on the run, and individually taken the songs are mostly rather good (a review will follow), but the over-all impression, when put all the songs together, still is somehow lesser than its parts. Something is not right there (and the bad rap is somehow justified).And I agree with you that "not that bad" is exactly the right expression in this context, knowing the reputation these records have.
- Doxa
And the overall impression is what an album is supposed to be about.
Heck, there are probably 6 good songs on Dirty Work, but not many regard it a good album
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 12:07 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 7, 2017 18:24
Quote
retired_dogQuote
Hairball
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
Integrity is one thing, but an easier (and probably more realistic) explanation is that Keith did not sing on most Stones songs and he probably was not too keen to hear comparisons of his versions of, let's say, Satisfaction, Paint It Black, Ruby Tuesday, JJF or HTW with the originals with Mick's lead vocals. I recall him explaining doing Gimme Shelter live because someone played him a bootleg with the "Keith lead vocals"-outtake to convince him that he's sounding good on that one and to give it a try with the Winos.
Could be, but I tend to think he was on a true solo journey for those tours playing most all of his solo material and/or songs that he wrote simply because he chose to. He had enough solo tunes and Stones songs he wrote on his own (some of which he also originally sang on - Happy, BTMMR, etc.) for both tours so there was no need to blur the lines between a true Keith solo show and a 'Stones' show w/out Mick. He was probably thinking "why play a bunch of Stones songs when I have enough artillery to make it truly solo"? But of course what you say could be partially true...
*On the other hand you have Mick and Robert Plant playing a bulk of songs from their bands (Stones and Zep) rather than having the main focus on their solo catalogues as Keith did which was my original point.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-07 18:30 by Hairball.
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: April 7, 2017 20:24
He also did a killer version of Time Is On My Side...but of course, the Stones didn't actually write that, as well as I Wanna Be Your Man...Quote
retired_dogQuote
Hairball
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
Integrity is one thing, but an easier (and probably more realistic) explanation is that Keith did not sing on most Stones songs and he probably was not too keen to hear comparisons of his versions of, let's say, Satisfaction, Paint It Black, Ruby Tuesday, JJF or HTW with the originals with Mick's lead vocals. I recall him explaining doing Gimme Shelter live because someone played him a bootleg with the "Keith lead vocals"-outtake to convince him that he's sounding good on that one and to give it a try with the Winos.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: April 7, 2017 20:34
Keith once (in 1988 I think) said Mick playing mostly Stones-songs live is like "jerking off in public". So of course after that statement Keith went in a different direction... he had to... 
Re: Mick Jagger solo works
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 7, 2017 21:07
Quote
Hairball
For however much 'integrity' people think Plant has for shying away from Led Zeppelin, keep in mind that nearly half (or more?) of his setlists are made up of Led Zeppelin songs. Perhaps he tweaks them a bit, but a Zeppelin song is a Zeppelin song no matter how you dice it. And just recently, he made a surprise appearance on stage with someone (name escapes me), and sure enough he belted out Kashmir in all it's Zeppelin glory. Sure he may have partially written it (the words), but seems like a kick in the teeth of Jimmy Page for Plant to continually play songs they wrote together as part of Led Zeppelin.
Mick did the same during his aborted solo tour - playing and tampering with Stones songs that are somewhat 'holy' and should not be messed with oustide of the band.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Keith toured solo the only Stones songs he played are ones that he wrote completely on his own - now that's integrity!
you made so many bad points here it's hard to sift through them all but i'll try.
turning down 500 or 600 million dollars to sell a fake version of zeppelin to the public is a little more important than keith doing his own songs on a 20 date theater tour.especially when he ran back to the vegas stones after each one,cashing a check to play the hits with a lead singer who he can't stand the sight of.
you're also forgetting a small bit of time..the entire 80's and half the 90's.plant was selling out 18000 seat arenas.doing tour after tour playing his own songs without any zep stuff in the set. between the end of LZ in 1980 and his reunion with jimmy in 94 he did it all on his own, playing songs from his platinum albums.
during this era it's laughable to say he was "keeping up with the times" when every lead singer was trying to be him.i hadn't really thought about ol robert for a long time so i went on you tube and looked at some of his old stuff,it's incredible how many hits he had.
why on earth would you think it's a "kick in the teeth" to jimmy if plant now plays the old songs? jimmy did almost an entire set on his 88 tour,a full tour with the black crowes and also a rap version of kashmir with p.diddy.they're just songs,nobody cares.
it's not an old question,at what point is a band just a name? how many members do you lose before it's not the real deal? for robert without his friend playing the drums it's not the real band -end of story.people need to get that through their thick heads.no..just fcking NO.people are so bought and sold nowdays that they see someone who doesn't sell his soul for the almighty dollar and they think HE'S the one doing something wrong,it's mindboggling how far we've sunk.
"i'm not peter pan and i have no desire to go out there with my shirt open trying to relive the past"-robert plant
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