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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.

And I love the cartoon too.

You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.

Come on! If you compare them to the bulk of the Stones' rock 'n' roll output, of course you'll say the album or its songs are horrible. Listen to the album in the context of when it was released, during the mid-80s. Granted, this was before my time but wasn't new-wave and keyboard/synth-heavy music the craze? It's just Mick doing what he always does: trying to make the music fit in (albeit a little forced here & here).

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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DandelionPowderman

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Hairball
99,9 percent of ALL Stones fans love Wandering Spirit?

Not so sure about that, but if you insist.
And 'love' is a pretty strong word, I'd probably go with 'like' or to a lesser degree 'tolerate', although I'm only speaking for myself.

I'm no statistician, but 20 years on this board has taught me that WS is, almost without exceptions, praised among fans

I don't know about this board, I haven't checked, but me and two other guys I know who are Stones fans, plus two other guys who are not fans, but do like Exile, Tattoo You, Let It Bleed, etc..., none of us like Wandering Spirit.
It sounds like a lame attempt to make Stones music without the Stones.
It's a pity that Mick never dared to really make something for himself he believed in and it's a pity that Keith never wanted Mick to do that and never really let go of Mick.
The past 30 years, they'd both been better off without the Stones artistically. Of course, as far as money and huge audiences are concerned, it's a different story.

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.

yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.

unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.

then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?

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Doxa
[...]
one thing that interests me, more than actually critizing the views of my fellow Stones fans here at IORR, is to critically examine the way Richards is viewed in musical media. My true target, or conversational partner, is to be found in that direction.
[...]
- Doxa

If I understand you correctly, your question is why Mick seems to have received more criticism than Keith from both fans as the media. I think the answer is quite simple. Even though Keith often looked ridiculous when drunk, even though not all songs on his solo-albums are equally good and none is as good as the best works of the Stones, even though he is weak with lyrics and limited with this voice and he would never ever appeal to huge audiences the way the Stones did and still do, on the other hand he never tried on his solo-work to second guess "modern taste", he never tried to be popular with the post-80 youth, he never tried to copy the current fashions. In other words, at least on his solo albums, he never sold out. In that sense, he got some credibility left whereas Mick lost almost all of his (and recovered some with Wandering Spirit and with the big Stones concerts later).

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

"in for me" / "infamy". That "pun" alone is enough to strongly dislike the song. Also, he sings it as if he's standing under the shower and just came up with it. It's nonsense, it's unworked, it's a bad song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-17 22:35 by matxil.

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treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.

then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?

I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort (unless you count Memo From Turner as one of his solo songs too, in which case of course that's the one).

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matxil

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treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.

then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?

I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....

I find that pretty funny considering your dislike of Infamy.

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.

yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.

Well you asked 'what's not to love' so I gave you an answer!
I didn't have to find (or invent) reasons why I don't like it, I simply replied to your question. The reasons I gave are as clear as day to me, and I've felt that way ever since the first time I heard it.
It probably doesn't help that it's surrounded by other crappy songs on ABB, but not sure that even makes a difference - a crap song is a crap song no matter what the context is.
It all boils down to the fact that some like it, and some don't - simple as that. I'm not trying change your opinion and convince you to dislike it, I was just answering your question with my own opinions.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Go listen to Let's Work. You have no orbit.

Good idea. But it´s called Dirty Work, not Let´s Work.

Figured you'd swallow that, seeing that they're both horrible. But seeing that this is about Jagger's solo work, Let's Work, DIRTY WORK... same results.

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.

And I love the cartoon too.

You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.

Come on! If you compare them to the bulk of the Stones' rock 'n' roll output, of course you'll say the album or its songs are horrible. Listen to the album in the context of when it was released, during the mid-80s. Granted, this was before my time but wasn't new-wave and keyboard/synth-heavy music the craze? It's just Mick doing what he always does: trying to make the music fit in (albeit a little forced here & here).

Your little bit there does nothing but exemplify just how bad it was. Context has zero relevance. The dude that spearheaded Jumpin' Jack Flash with Keith Richards thought Let's Work was a great leading single for his second solo album after the worst Rolling Stones album in history was released.

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matxil

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

"in for me" / "infamy". That "pun" alone is enough to strongly dislike the song. Also, he sings it as if he's standing under the shower and just came up with it. It's nonsense, it's unworked, it's a bad song.

indeed, infamy is a weak effort.

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GasLightStreet

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun

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GasLightStreet

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HMS
Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero aren´t bad either.
Such a very good album, almost great indeed.

And I love the cartoon too.

You're right - they aren't bad - they're horrible. The worst. The album is a very good turd, in fact, the greatest turd ever. One giant ridiculous cartoon turd.

Come on! If you compare them to the bulk of the Stones' rock 'n' roll output, of course you'll say the album or its songs are horrible. Listen to the album in the context of when it was released, during the mid-80s. Granted, this was before my time but wasn't new-wave and keyboard/synth-heavy music the craze? It's just Mick doing what he always does: trying to make the music fit in (albeit a little forced here & here).

Your little bit there does nothing but exemplify just how bad it was. Context has zero relevance. The dude that spearheaded Jumpin' Jack Flash with Keith Richards thought Let's Work was a great leading single for his second solo album after the worst Rolling Stones album in history was released.

I think we can all agree this is Mick's career low moment...no need to sh*t all over him.

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.

yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.

Well you asked 'what's not to love' so I gave you an answer!...

Not really, it was an obvious rhetorical question. But no matter, it's a great song, no one can change that.

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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retired_dog

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LeonidP

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Hairball
Infamy is one of Keith's all time weakest tracks imo.

Agree, if by weakest you mean one of his best!

Actually I don't consider it one of his best, but it's a great track nonetheless.

Bad. Awful bad. The music. The lyrics. The voice. Just everything. Awful bad.

Yeah, some are not capable of getting it, stick to your Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight crap, I'll take Infamy any day, over anything on that one (except Too Rude).

You can keep the Dirty Work/Sleep Tonight "crap" along with the dreadful Infamy, and I'll take anything and everything from Talk is Cheap, Main Offender, and Crosseyed Heart in exchange.
Also, I get to keep all of Keith's collaborations outside the band, and you can have Primitive Cool and the rest of Mick's solo work (Superheavy, Alfie, and Will.I.Am included).

Infamy has a fantastic sound/groove, very nice subtle guitar licks, fantastic lyrics & vocals by Keith ... what's not to love?

For one, there's something about that dorky guitar effect he uses...sounds like a twangy Jews harp and doesn't serve the song well.
The there's the annoying hootin' harmonica which seems out of place, yet dominates everything when it's played throughout.
Further, the tune plods along as if it was still an early demo in need of desperate help of working out the kinks.
The overall structure and production sound like a high school band learning and rehearsing a new tune for the big prom.
His vocals are OK, but the lyrics are lacking..."infamy"..."in for me"...juvenile word play.

yeah, juvenile word play etc. can probably be said about any song, seriously - just goes to show, some can simply enjoy a nice tune, while others have to find (sometimes even invent) reasons not to, but whatever, people are as different as songs.

Well you asked 'what's not to love' so I gave you an answer!...

Not really, it was an obvious rhetorical question. But no matter, it's a great song, no one can change that.

You a replied directly to my post with a question, so it wasn't really an 'obvious rhetorical question'.
As I said in the part of my original post that you edited out for some reason:

"...some like it, and some don't - simple as that. I'm not trying change your opinion and convince you to dislike it"

In other words, you think it's a great song while I think it's a weak song - and evidently several others who have chimed in also think it's weak.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Two thoughts here:

1) The only indication that either of the Glimmers has ever given that he might have been capable of an artistically and commercially significant solo career resides in the single song "Memo from Turner." Everything else from both of them has been marginalia, appealing to fan-boys and -girls and no one else in the wider world, and

2) Given the stature of The Stones it's really remarkable when you think about it how awful their solo "careers" have been, Christ, all four Beatles INCLUDING RINGO had more hit songs. Robert Plant filled arenas for years when he toured as a solo act. Pete Townshend produced work on his own that in many ways rivals the Who's catalog. Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades. I'm sure there are many more examples.

I don't know what it means that their collective solo outputs are so musically irrelevant. Could they just be crappier-than-we-think songwriters whose only genius lies in the first decade-and-a-half of their partnership when they were able to operate in a true "1+1=3/sum is greater than its parts" kind of manner?

I have long believed that while Mick and Keith are of course fantastic songwriters their true gift lies in their use of the studio as an instrument. From the early days at RCA in Hollywood with Jack Nitzsche and Dave Hassinger to Olympic in London with Jimmy Miller and Nicky, the band produced irresistible songscapes of inventive instrumentation and wildly creative "technique." Thats what, at least to my ears, is most missing from post-Taylor Stones and from all of the Jagger and Richards solo records.

Nice post LongBeachArena72.

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LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"

Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-04-18 08:03 by Hairball.

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Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.

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LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"

Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...

Fair point. With the Garcia example, I was trying to focus more on the way some of Jerry's solo output had been embraced by fans of the band and played by the band for years and years. Imagine "Take it So Hard" or "Just Another Night" at a Stones show. Snoozefest. The porta-potties would explode with the sudden influx.

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LongBeachArena72

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Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.

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LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"

Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...

Fair point. With the Garcia example, I was trying to focus more on the way some of Jerry's solo output had been embraced by fans of the band and played by the band for years and years. Imagine "Take it So Hard" or "Just Another Night" at a Stones show. Snoozefest. The porta-potties would explode with the sudden influx.

Lol perhaps so , but I for one would embrace "Take it So Hard" at a Stones show over quite a few of the warn out warhorses. I guess that would label me as a 'fanboy' though!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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LongBeachArena72

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Hairball
Nice post LongBeachArena72.

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LongBeachArena72
"Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades"

Do you think those 'nuggets' appeal to anyone else in the wider world outside of diehard Deadheads? You claim Keith and Mick solo have no appeal outside of some fanatics (which is true), yet you give praise and credit to Jerry Garcia solo and the Dead? I'm not even sure Dead music in general appeals to the wider world - it's more of a niche...

Fair point. With the Garcia example, I was trying to focus more on the way some of Jerry's solo output had been embraced by fans of the band and played by the band for years and years. Imagine "Take it So Hard" or "Just Another Night" at a Stones show. Snoozefest. The porta-potties would explode with the sudden influx.

true enough i would suspect

I don't like Plant solo, and my fave Memo From Turner-version is the Stones-version.

They were too old when they went solo to be relevant.

Make No Mistake and Evening Gown are top songs. Really, really good, imo.

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LeonidP

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matxil

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treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.

then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?

I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....

I find that pretty funny considering your dislike of Infamy.

I really don't see the connection. Do you refer to the music or to the lyrics or to something else?
"Just Another Night" is a fun pop song (like all/most of Jagger's solo stuff is pop-music), "Infamy" is someone trying to remember a vague melody and meanwhile trying to be clever with wordplay.

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LongBeachArena72
Two thoughts here:

1) The only indication that either of the Glimmers has ever given that he might have been capable of an artistically and commercially significant solo career resides in the single song "Memo from Turner." Everything else from both of them has been marginalia, appealing to fan-boys and -girls and no one else in the wider world, and

2) Given the stature of The Stones it's really remarkable when you think about it how awful their solo "careers" have been, Christ, all four Beatles INCLUDING RINGO had more hit songs. Robert Plant filled arenas for years when he toured as a solo act. Pete Townshend produced work on his own that in many ways rivals the Who's catalog. Jerry Garcia's solo career included nuggets which became fan-beloved mainstays in the Dead's setlist for decades. I'm sure there are many more examples.

I don't know what it means that their collective solo outputs are so musically irrelevant. Could they just be crappier-than-we-think songwriters whose only genius lies in the first decade-and-a-half of their partnership when they were able to operate in a true "1+1=3/sum is greater than its parts" kind of manner?

I have long believed that while Mick and Keith are of course fantastic songwriters their true gift lies in their use of the studio as an instrument. From the early days at RCA in Hollywood with Jack Nitzsche and Dave Hassinger to Olympic in London with Jimmy Miller and Nicky, the band produced irresistible songscapes of inventive instrumentation and wildly creative "technique." Thats what, at least to my ears, is most missing from post-Taylor Stones and from all of the Jagger and Richards solo records.

Although I like/love Richards' solo-albums very much, you might have a point that in their solo-works neither Keith nor Mick never reproduced that "jamming-feel", that sensation of a band "clicking together", the way they do on their best Stones albums. And it's very likely that the producers have a lot to do with that, but also of course the difference between playing with people you have been playing with for decades compared to playing with guys you "just met".

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matxil

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LeonidP

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matxil

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treaclefingers
unfortunately Memo From Turner was the highlight of his solo career...unfortunate because he peaked so early. Wandering Spirit is spotless, but everything else is a bit uneven, with a few gold nuggets thrown in for good measure.

then there are the duets, Don't Look Back, State of Shock, Dancing In The Street, a couple of songs on Goddess, Old Habits Die Hard, most of the Superheavy Album, T.H.E. with Will.i.am...were there any others?

I like "Just Another Night". It might be his best solo-effort ....

I find that pretty funny considering your dislike of Infamy.

I really don't see the connection. Do you refer to the music or to the lyrics or to something else?
"Just Another Night" is a fun pop song (like all/most of Jagger's solo stuff is pop-music), "Infamy" is someone trying to remember a vague melody and meanwhile trying to be clever with wordplay.

It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.

The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.

That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..

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DandelionPowderman

It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.

The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.

That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..

You're right that "underdeveloped melodies" are something like Keith's trademark, but sometimes it works very well ("Wicked As It Seems", "Thief in the Night") and sometimes it falls flat, as it does on Infamy. The song might have worked better with different vocals.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.

The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.

That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..

You're right that "underdeveloped melodies" are something like Keith's trademark, but sometimes it works very well ("Wicked As It Seems", "Thief in the Night") and sometimes it falls flat, as it does on Infamy. The song might have worked better with different vocals.

Agreed, but both of your examples are rather heavy on melody - for Keith, that is. You can actually hum and sing those tunes

Since by now we're talking about both their solo careers, I think it is just not true that they only appealed to the confines of Stones fans.
Both Keith's albums worked up a good bit of dust. To compare them with Beatles solo careers IMO doesn't cut it, because these are different times. I do wonder how a Keith solo album would have done in '73.
Keith ran two very successful solo tours with the Winos. The band their own identity, and were in no way a Stones shadow.
Jagger got better and better IMO.Jagger has so much more territory to wade through; minefields and moats before anyone gets to a real persona in there. He himself, as much as anyone, is obsessed with Jagger, the myth. So maybe it takes a while, a few tries to get it right; and get past "The Leader of the Stones".
E.g. I can't see him putting "Handsome Molly" on the first couple albums. The Stones loomed over the first two solo albums.

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

It also has a unmistakable sound, groove and feel.

The melody is not less developed than some of the Talk Is Cheap and Main Offender-tracks, so that argument is moot, imo.

That said, I quickly grew tired of it, after enjoying it quite a bit when the album came out..

You're right that "underdeveloped melodies" are something like Keith's trademark, but sometimes it works very well ("Wicked As It Seems", "Thief in the Night") and sometimes it falls flat, as it does on Infamy. The song might have worked better with different vocals.

Agreed, but both of your examples are rather heavy on melody - for Keith, that is. You can actually hum and sing those tunes

Really? I never manage more than little mumbled lines like "playtime, but it's far too late" and then sort of jumping to the backing vocals going "hard on it, hard on it", back to Keith "what you gonna give?" and then not remembering how to go on from there on. And with Thief more or less the same happens.
Maybe you should do some cover-versions with the forum-band? They must be fun (but difficult) to cover.